Raid rules breaking - Phoenix Freeshard

Ok, now since nothing its done about it ive gotta say that it is ridicoulus how some persons act in their raids. Today some guys (paxetbonum, freeddopally, masterofpet) started a sidi raid. How it vent nobody cares but the things about loot is very strange and surely unfair. Ok, my point is: those guys didnt explained any rules about loot at hte beginning ( which is crear phoenix server rules breaking ). Then they started to roll and forgot to record the rolls for two times ( thats np cause nobody already cares about it ). Nobody sorted the loot out and after second roll many people left due to bad roll. Then, when a lot of people left and first loot taking was done he just started to roll on other drops. Really ? Those who left has no idea it will be happening this way... But its crap loots so who cares either. And also at the end he just said that three guys from his group are left and he will take the loots for them..
But my point still the same: loot rules wast explained and i want you to consider it as a "grief play" like rules has saying and never let those guys run a raid again.

Thank you.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:50 AM by Aroin

Masterofpet
Paxetbonum

Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:57 AM by Norulez

I definitely agree with what Steel explained. way too long to give all details and all things that went wrong but it was definitely not well intentioned.

Thanks to the GMs who assisted and hopefully the guy gets a serious warning.

Cheers,

Norulez

Tue 5 Feb 2019 1:23 AM by EoIpso

I think, all ppl tried to make their best.
The Raid leader did not know, how to manage a Raid on Phoenix.
There is a lot loot dropped after a Sidi Raid (maybe 400 or more), but there is only Space for 100 Items in the Chestbox.
When Raidleader dont delete a lot of trash Items, which not worth to roll on, this has to fail.
So, in the first Chestbox was maybe 10 Items with worth and the rest was worth nothing.
But Raidleader made at start of the raid the rule, that he plans to roll every Item.
With Phoenix rules for Chestbox it is simply not possible to roll in an fair way for so much dropps.
There are some solutions :
1. As I have seen until today, Raidleader takes the most Items and destroy them.
2. Raidleader should salvage some dropps and build material packages. - Problem : Neck, Ring and other stuff cannot be salvaged.
3. Devs have to make the Chestbox bigger, so that all loot can be in. Advantich would be : Everybody becomes one Item.

But most important is ; All the people in the raid should be patient and give the raid leader respect for his effort. Everyone can take the opportunity to do it better soon.

Sorry for my bad english, its not my natural language.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 1:33 AM by Steelhead23rus

Not knowing the rules is not an excuse of its breaking. Again, the rules wasnt clearly explained.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:47 AM by mt-pear

I was part of the raid and it was a desaster regarding lead.
1. if you fail recording: your problem, sort it per hand! Alot of people (incl. me) ported out after a low roll. Not talking about those people with high rolls...
2. No rule explaining at all.
3. If you don't know how to lead a raid: learn by the ones who do know it! Plan ahead!

Regarding the lootbox issue: it would be awesome if you could set a filter what item should be collected by the bg treasurer additionally to item level.

BR Minplus

Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:21 AM by De Kus

As much as I support the "better loot filter" solution, I am aware there will be a lot of scripting and data management to do. Because how to want to filter 200 crap boots from the few usefull drops like chests between with the RoGs sorting in utility in between and the respec stones which always come last? Also why are there certain drops so many? Best solution would probably be to mark certain loot in end game PvE as "epic" and you can filter the lootbox to make a normal item distrubution within the BG, like it was a big group and distributing the trash drop one by one, giving every raid participant about 1-2 items to sell/salvage.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:22 AM by

Uthred

There was a bug in Caer Sidi. Read this --> https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4759

Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:17 AM by Sepplord

I am not an alb and i haven't witnessed the situation.
But i have seen similar on midgard.

If there is malicious intent, then i am all for punishment. But often it is not the case, and it doesn't read like it is the case here.

Raising [edit - Language] after someone put himself in the spotlight of raidleading and failed will just lead to fewer raid leaders and fewer raids.

It's quite ironic how everyone expects every raidleader to be instantly as good as the best raidleader they had before, yet 75% of the raidparticipants fail to follow simple instructions like "don't go in front of puller" or "STAY AT THE TOP OF THE LEDGE" or even common sense stuff like not pulling additional mobs.

Cut your leaders some slack, they aren't really benefitting much. They can't AFK for 15minutes during Raid, they can't quit early because they rolled low, they can't log from their alt onto the raidtoon 1minute (or even later) before the raid starts, etc...

TL;DR: cut your leaders some slack (unless it was malicous intent), otherwise you will end up without leaders

Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:02 PM by Druth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:17 AM
I am not an alb and i haven't witnessed the situation.
But i have seen similar on midgard.

If there is malicious intent, then i am all for punishment. But often it is not the case, and it doesn't read like it is the case here.

Raising [edit - Language] after someone put himself in the spotlight of raidleading and failed will just lead to fewer raid leaders and fewer raids.

It's quite ironic how everyone expects every raidleader to be instantly as good as the best raidleader they had before, yet 75% of the raidparticipants fail to follow simple instructions like "don't go in front of puller" or "STAY AT THE TOP OF THE LEDGE" or even common sense stuff like not pulling additional mobs.

Cut your leaders some slack, they aren't really benefitting much. They can't AFK for 15minutes during Raid, they can't quit early because they rolled low, they can't log from their alt onto the raidtoon 1minute (or even later) before the raid starts, etc...

TL;DR: cut your leaders some slack (unless it was malicous intent), otherwise you will end up without leaders

Imo, considering how many people are afk on raids, and that leader has to organize and lead and be ON the whole time, I'm supprised they don't keep more loot at the end, especially on TG raids that is mainly about getting feathers.

And if people have a problem with that they can always lead one themselves and fail.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:14 PM by Steelhead23rus

My raid wont fail in any way. Just telling. Want me to show how to make a raid ? Np. When those guys will be unished ill announce sidi raid.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 1:06 PM by krumr

Come on, for once someone else than the usual guys run a raid, and in not time there are people complaining and asking for warnings, bans and punishments.

1. How can you be so sure it was ill intended from the start? The fact that they didn't state any rule at all should be enough of a hint about their ignorance of the rules altogether.

2. Raid leading rules are very important (their violation is considered griefing) but also peculiar, as in specific, to the server, yet they are not even published on front page (like the most important rules), instead they are hidden inside the forum, the use of which is not even mandatory. How can you reasonably say that "not knowing a rule is not an excuse to breaking it" at that point?

3. With this attitude you will only scare away new possible raid leaders and we'll be stuck with the usual ones while we could have raids (both in pve and pvp) going on all day long.

Instead of the usual whining and boasting (if you can run a successfully perfect raid do so Steel, I'll gladly join even just for the feathers) let's be constructive for once:
- Put raid leading rules on the front page, with the other server ones
- consider about making them clearer, some people really think they can change rules during the run as long as they reserve themselves that right from the start
- consider about making a small disclaimer/pop up window with those rules when you start a bg as leader

I know many things could have been done better, but for a start it didn't went so bad: despite many random pulls (which could have ruined the experience altogether) we even managed to kill apoc and get almost 10k feathers.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 2:58 PM by Ayoli

First of all I want to say that I respect everyone who organizes a raid. These Raid leaders shouldn`t be flamed. Instead they should be supported.

Yesterday I was member of the raid too. Yes... the way the loot was distributed was very frustrating and disappointing. Even if I was lucky and received a good drop in the end. The time it took was longer than the raid. I think it took 2 hours and i had to wake up 5 hours later to go to work next morning. I did 4 rolls on items and received 2 in the end. Many others still didn´t received something on the third roll while others got their third drop. Uthred prompted the raid leader to distribute the lesser items to people who want them before he destroys them. I asked for one item but i didn't got it (At this time I didn´t receive nothing after two rolls and over one hour waiting.) They way all of this happend felt realy unfair to me and there was a lot of wasted time for many people.

But shit happens. I don't believe that the raid leader did his mistakes on purpose. So I think the shitstorm the raid leader received yesterday is punishment enough already.

Now we know that the number of drops was a bug. So I can`t imagine that this will happen the same way again.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 3:34 PM by Steelhead23rus

No its not enough i believe. Rules is rules, they broke it, and i will be pushing this topic untill they get punished. It has to be done at least to show to all these who want to start raid, to read the rules before doing it...

Tue 5 Feb 2019 4:08 PM by Sepplord

Steelhead23rus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:14 PM
My raid wont fail in any way. Just telling. Want me to show how to make a raid ? Np. When those guys will be unished ill announce sidi raid.

Steelhead23rus wrote: No its not enough i believe. Rules is rules, they broke it, and i will be pushing this topic untill they get punished. It has to be done at least to show to all these who want to start raid, to read the rules before doing it...

God, i am happy that the raidleaders in Midgard communicate with each other, support each other and help each other out.
Instead of chastizing that new guy, you should reach out and offer him help. Maybe do a Raid together. etc...

Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:12 PM by Quik

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 4:08 PM
Steelhead23rus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:14 PM
My raid wont fail in any way. Just telling. Want me to show how to make a raid ? Np. When those guys will be unished ill announce sidi raid.

Steelhead23rus wrote: No its not enough i believe. Rules is rules, they broke it, and i will be pushing this topic untill they get punished. It has to be done at least to show to all these who want to start raid, to read the rules before doing it...

God, i am happy that the raidleaders in Midgard communicate with each other, support each other and help each other out.
Instead of chastizing that new guy, you should reach out and offer him help. Maybe do a Raid together. etc...

Heaven forbid a good raid leader maybe contact them in game and help them figure out what they did wrong so they can fix it...

Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:12 PM by BisbyHoughton

That was a disaster of a raid lol. I appreciate the folks who stepped up to lead it in the first place, and now we know that it was a bug causing all of that garbage loot to drop so I can't hold that against them, but they seemed to be pretty recalcitrant to receiving and acting on any sort of feedback on the loot process though I reckon I would be too after seeing how terrible some of the raid participants were (pulling Apoc before anybody said to, etc).

Be kind, yall.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 7:45 PM by krumr

Steelhead23rus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 3:34 PM
No its not enough i believe. Rules is rules, they broke it, and i will be pushing this topic untill they get punished. It has to be done at least to show to all these who want to start raid, to read the rules before doing it...

And, given that only a few of those who attended that raid (100+ players) are even taking part in this very post, what are the chances that the post reporting their punishment will: a) be read by future raid leaders, and b) act as a deterrent?

As I said, a better solution would be to put those rules on the main page and, at the same time, make a pop up window (like the /servernews one) for the bg leader when the bg is created.

Also, do you know which rule is shared by most, if not all, internet communities and forums (and for obvious reasons)?
The one forbidding naming and shaming.
That goes a long way to say that not even your behavior is 100% correct.

Truth is that it's way too easy to misjudge other people and ask for severe and swift justice on them. It's way more bothersome to help others improve by giving them good suggestions or lending a hand when you can...