since I don't have much insight on these tanking classes, and some old Wikis don't help me at all, I would like to hear your commends/suggestions for choosing a class.
I do understand that Thane is a hybrid class and thus, in the sense of archetype 'tank', not as defensive as the warrior might be. True?/False?
What capabilities brings the warrior when it comes to holding aggro of 5-10 incoming mobs in PvE? Thane has his AOE, but warriors?
Your job as a tank in an AoE grp isnt really to hold aggro on the mobs but rather to guard the casters (block attacks for them). Both classes are equal in this assuming they both spec as much in shield.
Thane has a harder time justifying maxing shield though, considering they need Stormcalling and some weapon spec too. Warr can run max shield and weapon without sacrificing anything.
Thane has the advantage that it can use AoE hammers on the mobs on inc, to soak the initial swings, meaning casters and healers will not be randomly interrupted before the mobs are stunned.
I'd say Thane is the better choice for leveling and warr is more popular in RvR and arguably stronger in endgame PvE. Pick your poison
Thane all the way. PM me if you want a decent War-like spec till you hit RR5 and/or get your temp. I dare not start that argument and turn your post into a post about Thane specs and which is GOD or GIMP...
"Every time a Thane drops a HAMMA, another Thane raises a cup to him in Valhalla." -Sarrath
Roll Thane , you will have a great time. also DET9 here so we golden. 50 sc, 42 shield, 39 hammer rest parry. DO NOT SPEC OTHERWISE regardless what some people here spew out.
Both classes are not equal as guardbots. That's bad information.
Blocking is affected by dexterity. Kobolds have the highest dex, they can only be warriors not Thanes. Warriors also grow in dexterity as they level whereas a thane does not, furthering the gap slightly.
Shields get a penalty based on the number of attackers depending on their size. Thanes can only equip medium Shields, whereas Warriors can equip large. So the gap grows even further in favor of Warriors.
Finally, Warriors typically go to 50 shield whereas Thanes stop at 42. That in and of itself is 4% extra block chance.
None of this is to say that Thanes can't be blockbots. They absolutely can. But warriors do this specific thing better.
Both classes are not equal as guardbots. That's bad information.
Blocking is effected by dexterity. Kobolds have the highest dex, they can only be warriors not Thanes. Warriors also grow in dexterity as they level whereas a thane does not, furthering the gap slightly.
Shields get a penalty based on the number of attackers depending on their size. Thanes can only equip medium Shields, whereas Warriors can equip large. So the gap grows even further in favor of Warriors.
Finally, Warriors typically go to 50 shield whereas Thanes stop at 42. That in and of itself is 4% extra block chance.
None of this is to say that Thanes can't be blockbots. They absolutely can. But warriors do this specific thing better.
Fair point on the dex and I completely agree that warrior will have higher shield spec both while leveling and on level 50 (typically). I still think thanes shine while leveling though, because they can grab the initial aggro and help stack mobs up in a bomb grp.
One thing though. Shield size only affects how many different targets that are hitting YOU that you can block. It doesnt make any difference for guard, or am I missinformed for this patch-level?
In that case i stand corrected. Maybe I've just allways assumed hat there is no difference, since it's really hard to tel the difference. I remember i used to use a buddys scout as a guard-bot on live way back in the day and achieve nearly 100% block with a small shield while PLing in PoC.
If memory serves... and I'm speaking strictly from my experience in RVR circa 2001-2003. Your mileage may vary.
During the live 1.65 historical era, Thanes were kinda like Smite Clerics who could spec sword & board instead of healing & buffs. Their survivability wasn't good enough to warrant bringing one along as a true tank, and they didn't do enough damage to really be an offensive caster. They also had bad habit of breaking cc with their point-blank area of effect instant damage shout & ranged area of effect hammers (Greater Thunder Roar & Command Mjollnir spells in SC respectively.) While great Thanes did exist at that time, the class as a whole couldn't overcome the stigma and became subjects of much derision and prejudice.
This was the case until at some point after Shrouded Isles was released, when the Thane Team Lead suggested that the class be reinvented as a kind of stealther-killer with pulsing damage, along the lines of the Reaver. The Team Lead was a player who was promoted by Mythic to a community representative position for the entire Thane playerbase, not a developer. From what I recall that idea of back-lines stealth killer & healer protector was roundly rejected by the players, many of which loved the Thane archetype and just wanted some love. Thanes remained in a rough spot until Trials of Atlantis and other expansions gradually changed it to what it is today on live. Some of those things still linger today, and some are not true on Phoenix.
I always try to play a tank in any game I play with my group of friends. I considered Warrior, but chose Thane because of the specific improvements that I saw in realm abilities and basic class improvements made to the Thane on this shard, and what I thought I'd be doing in an 8-man or smallman RVR group. I played with the character builder, read a lot of these forums and the state of the game on Phoenix in general on the Wiki. Like everything I do, I tried to understand where I was headed, when I planned on getting there and what I'd be doing when I arrived. I came to the conclusion that I would be a Shield tank Thane most of the time, swing a Hammer sometimes, but the bulk of my damage should come from Stormcalling.
The plan is to go 50 Stormcalling, 42 Shield for Slam, and 39 in Hammers. The remaining points will get me 6 Parry. I am 44 as of this message, I kept Stormcalling at my level and Hammers slightly behind, with the remainder in Shield until I recently hit 39 Hammers. I am now continuing to advance Stormcalling and catching up Shields till 42. I found that I could tank well even without many points in Shield, and could handle most orange-con mobs with ease by pulling from the 1500 range limit of my castable direct damage, and smacking down the remainder with my Hammer styles. In groups I drop Mjollnir on the incoming packs and help gather the pull together with AoE, and hunker down behind the shield, and often swap Guard with another tank as well. It is highly effective at keeping my casters alive.
In RVR at 50 I plan to set up shop beside my healer and/or casters, Guard & Intercept for one of them, and interrupt offensively and assist the melee train with ranged direct damage. When the fight inevitably comes to my neighborhood, I will use Slam and Conquer snares to peel from my casters as needed. Entering melee will be a last resort. I've done some battleground RVR where I executed my above strategy to the level of the abilities available to me. I have fought casters solo with some success. I do not fear archers. I've gotten destroyed by higher level players while hunting in the Frontiers. Now that I am in my 40s I have also taken some of those number to dangerously-low health before dying.
I hope my report has been helpful, and not too repetitive. There are far better Thanes here than me. I am still engaged with the class and excited to get to 50 and enjoy RVR with friends. I has been a fun ride so far and I do not regret the path not chosen.
I've never heard that shield size doesn't affect guard and all testing I've seen has disproved that.
http://gaheris.net/p/test_shield_size.html
It doesn't affect guard in the usual cases but the shield size affects the block cap, 80 for smal 90 for medium 99 for large in pve iirc.
Iirc shield size does not affect block cap but it affects how many atackers you can block without getting a penalty Small shield = one attacker Medium shield = 2 attackers Lange shield = 3 attackers
Still not exactly sure if this only applies to pve or rvr too.
That's only the case when blocking for yourself. And on the gaheris test you can pretty easily see the different cap.
So what does that mean for rvr and guard? Small shield is all you need?
Right, I don't care about shield size in RVR seems like larger doesn't mean anything here except slower and more ranged protection, which I presume works in RVR too. From the Phoenix Wiki:
– Shield size now factors into chance to block ranged projectiles. Larger shields will block more effectively.
From my experience in RVR so far and historically (pre-TOA) if you have Guard on someone you're probably going to be the peeler. Get the highest quality, fastest small shield (exceptional buckler) that you can get your hands on. Having a faster shield means the you have less delay between both Shield and Hammer styles. Damage on the Slam and any styles will be small, but the objective is to apply the status effect to your target and move on to the next threat to peel as quickly as possible.
