Perf is broken in Thid - Phoenix Freeshard

So I have noticed Backstab 2 clearly hits harder than Perf. It has double the style bonus on it. What is up with this?

Thu 31 Jan 2019 2:06 AM by Afuldan

Spec? 2hd? Numbers? Different targets and as such different resists?

Thu 31 Jan 2019 2:09 AM by ughsmash

I figured someone would want that info. I have tried on humanoids dragons magical mobs. Everything the STYLE BONUS is higher on backstab to Perf and it literally doesnt matter what mob type as they are both the same weapon with the same con mob. Backstab gets double the style bonus.

Thu 31 Jan 2019 2:21 AM by

gruenesschaf

perf scaling is a bit off in the lower levels, the base damage is set too low and the spec based scaling slightly too high.

Thu 31 Jan 2019 11:32 PM by Vrock

Is this going to be fixed? I love SB in Thid, but this will be a no go for SB's there.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:23 AM by ughsmash

Basically as it stands right now in Thid:

Perf for 123 DMG
Backstab 2 the same person for 180 DMG

Meanwhile my buddy is shooting people with his bow for 250+

None of the above is an exaggeration and it all makes me 100 percent sad.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 7:26 AM by Cirath

Frankly I've been disappointed with perf damage at 50 as well. My SB is 35 stealth, 38 axe, 44CS, 27LA, 35 envenom. All skills +15. I perf reinforced and chain wearers for 300-350, leather wearers for 350-400, and casters for 400-450. All with a 100 qual 4.2 spd mainhand. I used a 5.5 spd 2h axe once on a luri caster, it only hit for 560. After that pathetic showing I never tried it again. All these were with capped str, combined forces pots, and red str/con charge. Damage on the other styles in the CS line is good, but Perf damage seems very low to me.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 9:41 AM by Cadebrennus

Everything is wonky in Thid. It can be fun but it is the worst place to expect any sort of balance. Thid has always been like that since BGs were opened.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 7:15 PM by jell0jell0

My friend one shots caster as a SB and do 180+ dmg with perf while I cannot ever dream of one shotting casters unless they are sitting or non-geared blueberries with my hunter.

Weird that we are having the exact opposite experience haha.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 9:29 PM by Thinal

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Jan 2019 2:21 AM
perf scaling is a bit off in the lower levels, the base damage is set too low and the spec based scaling slightly too high.

I'd noticed in i50 testing that BSII/PA do not follow the standard formulas. Is this an emulator limitation?

Here are the formulas, per Jay Ambrosini:
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/style_growth_formula.html (section 5)

Perforate Artery Cap = 75 + Critical Strike Spec * 9 + Nonstyle Cap (Not mentioned here but I believe 2H is *12 instead of *9; it's definitely supposed to be higher)
Backstab II Cap = 45 + Critical Strike Spec * 6 + Nonstyle Cap
Backstab I Cap = ~5 + Critical Strike Spec * 14 / 3 + Nonstyle Cap (forum font is funky; that's a tilde "about" 5 not negative 5)

I found weapon spec to be a factor in the +bonus portion, and that shouldn't be the case. The only factor for the stealth opener style bonuses should be Critical Strike composite spec. This should add, not multiply like a growth style, and therefore should not be affected by weapon skill, speed, or even DPS. LA penalty also should not reduce it in any way. Those should only factor into the base damage.

I wish now I'd mapped it out, but I was concentrating on Garrote damage and just tested PA/BSII as overall benefits of high CS spec.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:08 PM by Varkzor

So is Performate Artery going to be fixed?
There is currently no use in speccing CS imo, can as well put all points into something else...

Quite disappointed myself with my Caledonia NS.

/V

Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:21 PM by sprinkle

ughsmash wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:23 AM
Basically as it stands right now in Thid:

Perf for 123 DMG
Backstab 2 the same person for 180 DMG

Meanwhile my buddy is shooting people with his bow for 250+

None of the above is an exaggeration and it all makes me 100 percent sad.

this isn't a real server

Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:13 PM by Cadebrennus

sprinkle wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:21 PM
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:23 AM
Basically as it stands right now in Thid:

Perf for 123 DMG
Backstab 2 the same person for 180 DMG

Meanwhile my buddy is shooting people with his bow for 250+

None of the above is an exaggeration and it all makes me 100 percent sad.

this isn't a real server

Thid isn't a good representation of RvR

Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:13 PM by Cruella

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Jan 2019 2:21 AM
perf scaling is a bit off in the lower levels, the base damage is set too low and the spec based scaling slightly too high.

Please take a look at it

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/785a6679-8965-4380-b6ce-d96f40cc7932

Perf needs to be fixed please. And if that isnt doable because of lvl 50 scaling or whatever technical reason
then you could perhaps raise the skill to the same level as backstab2.

Its not worth to spec to 21 crit right now. I tested speccing only to 18 for garotte but the frontal style is something in the toolkit you miss.

Mon 18 Nov 2019 8:12 PM by sylvynyr

Doing some tests at level 24 seems to show each point of CS (over 21) adds 18 damage to PA and 9 damage to Backstab2.

8.2DPS @ 2.4spd
21+5 CS
PA a level 1 mob for 284 with 1h, no LA
Unstyled damage cap seems to be 59 which seems to follow closely to the expected formula: 3 * DPS * Spd * (1+((Spd-2)*0.03)
This means the styled damage from PA was 284-59 = 225
On live it would likely be 75+CS*9 = 75+26*9 = 75+234 = 309

So if PA for 284, but the CS bonus would be 26*18 = 468 with unstyled cap of 59....
284 = 468+59+X
X = 284 - (468+59) = 284 - 527 = -243

Yep, that's a negative modifier. Is that supposed to be positive by chance?

So it looks like the PA formula is: -243+CS*18+UnstyledCap or -243+26*18+59 = -243+468+59 = 284
This worked from 21CS up to 24CS

Now compared to BS2:

BS2 a level 1 mob for 353 with 1h, no LA
Unstyled damage cap is still 59
This means the styled damage from BS2 was 353-59 = 294
On live it would likely be 45+CS*6 = 45+26*6 = 45+156 = 201

So if BS2 for 353, but the CS bonus would be 26*9 = 234 with unstyled cap of 59....
353 = 234+59+X
X = 353 - (234+59) = 353 - 293 = 60

So it looks like the BS2 formula is: 60+CS*9+UnstyledCap or 60+26*9+59 = 60+234+59 = 353
This worked from 10CS up to 24CS (with +5 from gear)

Recap:
PA = -243+CS*18+UnstyledCap
BS2 = 60+CS*9+UnstyledCap

At least at level 24.

Mon 18 Nov 2019 11:13 PM by Riac

pa is lack luster at lvl 50 too.

Tue 19 Nov 2019 8:20 PM by sylvynyr

Another thought dump...

The original formulas on live are/were:
PA = (75) + (CS * 9) + (UnstyledCap)
BS2 = (45) + (CS * 6) + (UnstyledCap)

These are the formulas that seem to work here on Phoenix:
PA = (-243) + (CS * 18) + (UnstyledCap)
BS2 = (60) + (CS * 9) + (UnstyledCap)

Phoenix requires a combined spec of 34CS before PA beats BS2 in damage output.

70CS (50 CS + 11 from items + 9 for RR10) with a 16.5dps 4.2spd 1H weapon... the maximum possible 1H PA damage is 1238 (1244 @ 4.3spd)
70CS (50 CS + 11 from items + 9 for RR10) with a 16.5dps 4.2spd 1H weapon... the maximum possible 1H BS2 damage is 911
60CS: PA = 1058, BS2 = 821
50CS: PA = 878, BS2 = 731
40CS: PA = 698, BS2 = 641
34CS: PA = 590, BS2 = 587
30CS: PA = 518, BS2 = 551
21CS: PA = 356, BS2 = 470

Thid makes it worse having a cap of 8.4dps and max 31 CS (24 spec+5 items+2 rr)
Max:
31CS: PA = 427, BS2 = 451
Reasonable:
26CS: PA = 337, BS2 = 406
Minimum:
21CS: PA = 247, BS2 = 361

Thu 28 Nov 2019 5:00 PM by 2flare

Perf sucks at lvl 50 too. Its nothing to go home raving about on this server unfortunately.
Big reason I switched out of CS for LA

Sat 21 Dec 2019 2:31 PM by Cruella

Cruella wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:13 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 31 Jan 2019 2:21 AM
perf scaling is a bit off in the lower levels, the base damage is set too low and the spec based scaling slightly too high.

Please take a look at it

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/785a6679-8965-4380-b6ce-d96f40cc7932

Perf needs to be fixed please. And if that isnt doable because of lvl 50 scaling or whatever technical reason
then you could perhaps raise the skill to the same level as backstab2.

Its not worth to spec to 21 crit right now. I tested speccing only to 18 for garotte but the frontal style is something in the toolkit you miss.

Reminder

Thu 23 Apr 2020 8:19 PM by Cruella

reminder

Sat 25 Apr 2020 5:10 AM by Komaf

ughsmash wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Feb 2019 2:23 AM
Basically as it stands right now in Thid:

Perf for 123 DMG
Backstab 2 the same person for 180 DMG

Meanwhile my buddy is shooting people with his bow for 250+

None of the above is an exaggeration and it all makes me 100 percent sad.

Your buddy have screenshots of this alleged 250+ in Thid - or you counting a level 20 player in cloth being shot while sitting? Because seriously. The crit average with a 5.5 bow potion buffed and dex capped is like 80 points, lol.