Thane and current state in 8 man RvR / RvR in General

Hi all,

Always wanted to play a Thane, because i love being a hybrid caster with shield.
On uthgard, i could not find any PuGs which wanted to have a thane in their group. and solo without speed is kinda meeh.

So here's my question to you guys:
With the latest hybrid changes for thanes, would you group up with Thanes in 8v8 or RvR in general?

Sat 22 Dec 2018 11:10 PM by Ceen

Thanes are the better def tanks vs caster gros while warrior shines vs tank grps. Both are quite good atm and if you have no guild backing you up, warrior is the more solid choice.

Sun 23 Dec 2018 5:06 PM by jon677

I plan on playing a thane not sure if I will get groups either. Thanes seem to be far more impressive on this server than live.

Sun 23 Dec 2018 11:29 PM by Bobbermand

Im LF a thane for our exp grp. plz roll thanes:-)

Sat 12 Jan 2019 8:56 AM by Crusad

I am very incline to roll thane ( like back in the classic days) and i am happy to see that they got buffed a bit. But i am concerned they still wont be accepted by the rvr meta since the dmg table has not be touched and there are no dd procs on the weapon styles (like the vw has).

Has anyone of you tried them after the buff and can report how they feel like?

Mon 14 Jan 2019 9:49 PM by Sarrath

I heard in Discord they are on the same damage table as Pallys (21) just under the Zerks and BMs. I could be wrong though, I just drop hammers and slam bot most of the time so far

Mon 14 Jan 2019 10:27 PM by Ceen

They are not on 21 they are 18 or 19

Tue 15 Jan 2019 6:50 AM by Crusad

Rolled the thane and lvld it to lvl40 right now. Feels very solid at least in pve/lvling and in the BGs. The cast time and mana reduction combined with the higher delve is quite strong.

Definitly go 48 Stormcalling!

Tue 15 Jan 2019 11:37 AM by tsteken

There is more Thanes online than Berserkers at any time, So something seems good anyway. Even if they wont be picked for set 8man groups I bet they got a spot in more casual rvr warfare and ofcourse in PvE. They can hold their own in both Melee groups and as a aoe bomber for caster groups.

They lack Stoicism and higher WS table otherwise solid imho.
I suggest Norse 50 SC 39 hammer 42 Shield 6 Parry.
Runnerup Frostalf (so ugly) with the same spec

Thu 17 Jan 2019 3:19 PM by Calconious

Ceen wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Jan 2019 10:27 PM
They are not on 21 they are 18 or 19

Anybody confirm this? There were 2-3 conversations last night in advice/region and each one ended with people saying that thane WS has been increased by a lot. I didn't follow Phoenix at all until like 5 days ago so I'm not sure about previous versions. I am having no issues leveling my thane up though. We will see at level 50 if I can't hit anybody!

Thu 17 Jan 2019 3:29 PM by Sepplord

No, because i went the "safe" route with warrior and would be jealous of the thanes

jk though, imo thanes are viable and make a good peeler in RvR

for levelling they are also quite good, and fit very well into bombgrps since they bring similar/same defense as shieldbot as a warrior, but also add a bit of AoE dmg

Thu 17 Jan 2019 10:26 PM by Sarrath

I started this thread

(https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3628&p=23076#p23076)

to try and get an idea from the devs what all classes damage tables are, including Thanes. Give it a post and maybe we can get the devs to provide the actual damage table for Phoenix, even if it has once difference, which from what I can tell, only the Pally is confirmed at 21, but there are rumblings that the Thane and Friar sit up there with them.

Fri 18 Jan 2019 1:32 AM by Hodge

Is there much difference between the 60ish str/con vs 75 str/con at 50? Is it worth the 99 spec points?

Or is it better to put points into Parry?

Fri 18 Jan 2019 10:55 AM by Dariussdars

Hodge wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jan 2019 1:32 AM
Is there much difference between the 60ish str/con vs 75 str/con at 50? Is it worth the 99 spec points?

Or is it better to put points into Parry?

Don't forget you could also use RA points for either aug strength or mastery of parry to compensate with however you choose to spec.

Fri 18 Jan 2019 4:48 PM by Smilo

Hodge wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jan 2019 1:32 AM
Is there much difference between the 60ish str/con vs 75 str/con at 50? Is it worth the 99 spec points?

Or is it better to put points into Parry?

There is quite a big difference between a 75 STR/CON spec buff and a 60 STR/CON spec buff, putting those points into parry would be a waste: in RVR nobody's going to attack you frontally, making parry only marginally useful, while your STR will always count every single time you swing your hammer.

I know this is going to sound a bit elitist buf if you're not maxing stormcalling you're doing it wrong. SC is what MAKES a Thane.
Even saving your shammy the conc for a red STR/CON buff would be more usefull than a few points of parry.

Wanna be a different Thane? Go 50 stormcalling - 50 weapon - 27 parry - 10 shield (just to engage archers if needed).
Not exactly group friendly but you will win 1vs1s against stealthers that you're not supposed to win... and that is quite fun!

Aug STR isnt really going to "compensate" anything, its something you should buy anyway and even if you max it you will still miss those 15 points of STR (more than that, actually).
And since maxing determination is mandatory, it will take a while to start building on aug str.

Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:40 AM by inoeth

Smilo wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jan 2019 4:48 PM
Hodge wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jan 2019 1:32 AM
Is there much difference between the 60ish str/con vs 75 str/con at 50? Is it worth the 99 spec points?

Or is it better to put points into Parry?

There is quite a big difference between a 75 STR/CON spec buff and a 60 STR/CON spec buff, putting those points into parry would be a waste: in RVR nobody's going to attack you frontally, making parry only marginally useful, while your STR will always count every single time you swing your hammer.

I know this is going to sound a bit elitist buf if you're not maxing stormcalling you're doing it wrong. SC is what MAKES a Thane.
Even saving your shammy the conc for a red STR/CON buff would be more usefull than a few points of parry.

Wanna be a different Thane? Go 50 stormcalling - 50 weapon - 27 parry - 10 shield (just to engage archers if needed).
Not exactly group friendly but you will win 1vs1s against stealthers that you're not supposed to win... and that is quite fun!

Aug STR isnt really going to "compensate" anything, its something you should buy anyway and even if you max it you will still miss those 15 points of STR (more than that, actually).
And since maxing determination is mandatory, it will take a while to start building on aug str.

no there is not a big difference ... the yellow str/con buffs 78 and the 75 str/con buffs 93 thats 15 points more which is actually more but does not make the thane OP.
parry on the other hand is very important if you want to play solo.
personally i wont go 50 storm, 48 is enough

my spec advice would bei 48 storm 42 shield 39 hammer 15 parry
15 parry will give you around 7% more chancce to parry
so being a frostalf with charged dex/quick and pot base dex you end up around 27% chance to parry (without def pen)
and if you want to go all the way to 50% chance to parry you can safe the last one and only have to skill parry8 instead of parry9

Sat 19 Jan 2019 3:14 PM by Smilo

So you're arguing a 7% chance to avoid damage when being attacked frontally is better than 15 points of STR and CON.

Not sure if serious... but ok, whatever...

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:40 AM
so being a frostalf with charged dex/quick and pot base dex you end up around 27% chance to parry (without def pen)
and if you want to go all the way to 50% chance to parry you can safe the last one and only have to skill parry8 instead of parry9

And then you're ready for PVE because nobody in his mind is going to attack a Thane frontally, unless all you do is soloing, and that is not a realistic scenario for a no-speed no-stealth character.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 12:07 AM by Loko

How the damage of the 4 high level DDs in Stormcalling? I didn't get a chance to test this myself after the SC changes went in.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:08 AM by inoeth

Smilo wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 3:14 PM
So you're arguing a 7% chance to avoid damage when being attacked frontally is better than 15 points of STR and CON.

Not sure if serious... but ok, whatever...

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:40 AM
so being a frostalf with charged dex/quick and pot base dex you end up around 27% chance to parry (without def pen)
and if you want to go all the way to 50% chance to parry you can safe the last one and only have to skill parry8 instead of parry9

And then you're ready for PVE because nobody in his mind is going to attack a Thane frontally, unless all you do is soloing, and that is not a realistic scenario for a no-speed no-stealth character.

actually i did... alot

ever heared of realmspeed?

Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:12 AM by Smilo

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:08 AM
actually i did... alot
ever heared of realmspeed?

Realm speed breaks on inc.

So i guess when you say soloing you really mean "get there, die on first inc, respawn and run back", which is ok... if your idea of RVR is camping MMG.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 3:00 PM by inoeth

Smilo wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:12 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:08 AM
actually i did... alot
ever heared of realmspeed?

Realm speed breaks on inc.

So i guess when you say soloing you really mean "get there, die on first inc, respawn and run back", which is ok... if your idea of RVR is camping MMG.

well solo rvr is mostly camping MGs

Wed 23 Jan 2019 10:02 AM by Sepplord

how can solos ever meet when they all camp their own MG?

Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:02 AM by Loko

Loko wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 12:07 AM
How's the damage of the 4 high level DDs in Stormcalling? I didn't get a chance to test this myself after the SC changes went in.

Anyone please?

Fri 25 Jan 2019 1:45 PM by mik

Loko wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:02 AM
Loko wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 12:07 AM
How's the damage of the 4 high level DDs in Stormcalling? I didn't get a chance to test this myself after the SC changes went in.

Anyone please?

233 on 26% resist targets with 50+12 SC for the main DD, I'll provide the other damage values later today, still at work

Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:20 PM by Skylaar

guys is the thane S/C buff stronger than the shaman one? considering shaman MoA too
on beta I noticed that going 50SC and 39H gave approximatly the same damage than 48SC and 42H plus more constitution... but in case I group often with shamans I was thinking that maybe 50SC wasn't worth it...
what do you think?

Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:48 PM by Sarrath

Skylaar wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:20 PM
guys is the thane S/C buff stronger than the shaman one? considering shaman MoA too
on beta I noticed that going 50SC and 39H gave approximatly the same damage than 48SC and 42H plus more constitution... but in case I group often with shamans I was thinking that maybe 50SC wasn't worth it...
what do you think?

If a buff class specs MoA (which i don't think Thanes and Champs normally do, if they can at all on this server) they should have a stronger spec buff at some point.
Base self buffs are always stronger than the buff classes self buffs, all things equal.

Sat 26 Jan 2019 12:57 AM by Loko

The delve on the shaman level 46 str/con buff is 69. The first 3 levels of Mastery of the Arcane (which is available to shaman, champion, thane, and other buffing classes) are total +2, 4, or 6 to that for a total cost of 1, 2, or 4 RA points.

Sat 26 Jan 2019 8:38 AM by Skylaar

do shamans usually use the red s/c buff in rvr?
and does your spell dmg increase from 48 to 50 in SC?

Sun 27 Jan 2019 12:18 PM by inoeth

Skylaar wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 8:38 AM
do shamans usually use the red s/c buff in rvr?
and does your spell dmg increase from 48 to 50 in SC?

depends on spec
yes 1%
imo it is not worth to spec 50 sc 48 i enough

Sun 27 Jan 2019 5:54 PM by Smilo

Tbh if i was a Shamman and a Thane asked me to buff him red str/con i would tell him to /respec.
Conc is not infinite and red str/con is for characters who can not buff themselves (wars, zerks etc...). Saving conc to the Shamman is one of the good things of having a Thane in group.

Also rememberif your shamman dies (priority target he is) your buffs are gone.

There is no reason to stop speccing Stormcalling at 48, theres nothing better to spec, parry or a couple of points of hammer skills are NOT worth the red str/con buff.

Inoeth you dont know what you're talking about, please stop giving bad advice to new players and stop acting as an expert just because you insta-50ed a few characters during beta.

There's so much discussion on how to allocate your 30 starting points, right?
I cant believe you are now suggesting to give up FIFTEEN freaking points of both STR and CON to gain... what? Some parry? Are you serious? Its like putting your 30 starting points in charisma just because you are a masochist... go for it if you like, but dont suggest the same to players asking for advice.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 12:07 PM by tsteken

Smilo wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 5:54 PM
Tbh if i was a Shamman and a Thane asked me to buff him red str/con i would tell him to /respec.
Conc is not infinite and red str/con is for characters who can not buff themselves (wars, zerks etc...). Saving conc to the Shamman is one of the good things of having a Thane in group.

Also rememberif your shamman dies (priority target he is) your buffs are gone.

There is no reason to stop speccing Stormcalling at 48, theres nothing better to spec, parry or a couple of points of hammer skills are NOT worth the red str/con buff.

Inoeth you dont know what you're talking about, please stop giving bad advice to new players and stop acting as an expert just because you insta-50ed a few characters during beta.

There's so much discussion on how to allocate your 30 starting points, right?
I cant believe you are now suggesting to give up FIFTEEN freaking points of both STR and CON to gain... what? Some parry? Are you serious? Its like putting your 30 starting points in charisma just because you are a masochist... go for it if you like, but dont suggest the same to players asking for advice.

Spot on, I play Thane. There is only 1 perfect spec and its 50 SC 39 hammer 42 shield. Dont fuss around with 44 hammer and lower your SC. you get 16 more str/con with the max buff which is way better than anything else you can get.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 3:00 PM by inoeth

Smilo wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 5:54 PM
Tbh if i was a Shamman and a Thane asked me to buff him red str/con i would tell him to /respec.
Conc is not infinite and red str/con is for characters who can not buff themselves (wars, zerks etc...). Saving conc to the Shamman is one of the good things of having a Thane in group.

Also rememberif your shamman dies (priority target he is) your buffs are gone.

There is no reason to stop speccing Stormcalling at 48, theres nothing better to spec, parry or a couple of points of hammer skills are NOT worth the red str/con buff.

Inoeth you dont know what you're talking about, please stop giving bad advice to new players and stop acting as an expert just because you insta-50ed a few characters during beta.

There's so much discussion on how to allocate your 30 starting points, right?
I cant believe you are now suggesting to give up FIFTEEN freaking points of both STR and CON to gain... what? Some parry? Are you serious? Its like putting your 30 starting points in charisma just because you are a masochist... go for it if you like, but dont suggest the same to players asking for advice.

yes i dont know what im talkig about.... 50 hp and 45 WS is worth to give up defense *facepalm*
for 8 mans you maybe right but as a thane you have to face that you probably doing small man or solo alot... there every point into defense counts

have anyone of you "experts" actually made some test or looked at the numbers? know your facts
btw everyone knows start stats decides if your char is OP or gimp!

ps: playing thane since 15 years
pps: you mad bro?

Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:35 PM by Smilo

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 3:00 PM
pps: you mad bro?

Are you 12 years old bro?

Stop being a poser, nobody's buying your crap.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:52 PM by inoeth

Smilo wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:35 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 3:00 PM
pps: you mad bro?

Are you 12 years old bro?

Stop being a poser, nobody's buying your crap.

do you have any other argument besides "are you 12 years old" ?
if you think 50 sc is superior, tell me and the ppl reading this thread why it is worth more than have better defense.
if you would be an aduld you would, or older than me (12 years), you probably can teach me what is so special about slightly better buffs.
you only say it is better because it is better. well i kind of get the point, not.
it is a well known thing that ppl who dont know anything tend to get personal when somebody is not on their side.
but what am i telling you, you are the professional. in fact i think you are the only one who is not buying my "crap"

to all the other people: you really have to decide if you want to play in grp or small man / solo. i have tested many specs over the years and i came up with this being the best for all terrain.

ps: i have the very strong feeling that you are really mad, maybe you should buy a punchig bag to get rid of your aggressions

Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:56 PM by Smilo

Do you have any argument besides "you mad bro"?
Read my posts #15 and #30 for all the answers to WHY 48 SC is a bad spec.

Or dont, i didnt write those comments for you, anyway, its pretty obvious you're too dense to even understand them.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 7:06 PM by inoeth

Smilo wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:56 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:52 PM
Smilo wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:35 PM
Are you 12 years old bro?

Stop being a poser, nobody's buying your crap.

do you have any other argument besides "are you 12 years old" ?
if you think 50 sc is superior, tell me and the ppl reading this thread why it is worth more than have better defense.

Do you have any argument besides "you mad bro"?
Read my posts #15 and #30 for all the answers to WHY 48 SC is a bad spec.

Or dont, i didnt write those comments for you, anyway, its pretty obvious you're too dense to even understand them.

yes i have if you would have read my posts....
i dont know why you are so dedicated to the red buff and why you dont accept other opinions, but actually i now realise that you are the kind of person who is always right. so i stop talking to you now till you decide to speak to me in a polite way, like adults do.
btw you wrote 50 sc thane is the way to go but then say something about doing dmg with melee? that doesnt even make sense.
and btw as a thane you are likely targeted in rvr because a casting guy with chain armor could also be a healer or shaman depending on the race you chose.
but you alrdy knew that i guess.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 7:09 PM by Smilo

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 7:06 PM
and btw as a thane you are likely targeted in rvr because a casting guy with chain armor could also be a healer or shaman depending on the race you chose.
but you alrdy knew that i guess.

LMAO now i just cant stop laughing.
Who are you playing against? Bots?

Mon 28 Jan 2019 7:36 PM by Ardri

I could post the optimal spec and detail out exactly why it's superior...But i would rather this bumbling buffoon inoeth use a subpar spec and be that much worse in rvr. Reading some of the stuff he's posting really just makes me lol.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 11:54 AM by tsteken

Ardri wrote: ↑
Mon 28 Jan 2019 7:36 PM
I could post the optimal spec and detail out exactly why it's superior...But i would rather this bumbling buffoon inoeth use a subpar spec and be that much worse in rvr. Reading some of the stuff he's posting really just makes me lol.

The guy is hilarious, and strongly affected by his emotions for his subpar spec. He will never give in with any facts.