Thane RVR group issues. - Phoenix Freeshard

Could we maybe make Thane, str/con buff a group buff? having alot of trouble finding rvr groups. maybe its just me. or maybe low level speed to help with solo runs.

Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:09 AM by inoeth

its not just you, thanes are not wanted in rvr groups. get a guild that take you to rvr or go solo or reroll grp friendly class

Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:58 AM by Sepplord

My SB has problems finding XP groups, could we make all Critstrike styles AOE-Effects? A speed for soloing would also be appreciated

Fri 25 Jan 2019 9:00 AM by Kampfar

My skald would trade parry for shield 😀

Fri 25 Jan 2019 2:31 PM by Hector

I personally think Thanes are fine in RvR. As with most classes, you need to find a consistent RvR group that is willing to let you play Thane and can support that playstyle. A thane can theoretically peel just fine and has added utility. I don't see why an RvR group wouldn't take one. There is a pervasive problem in DAOC where people just repeat the same s**t they hear over and over again. I.e., Thanes are bad. They have det, ST, slam/guard, snare.. they are absolutely fine. Rafjord played one really well on beta. It's all about the player + group, NOT the class. The same can be said about Friar, Pally, VW, etc.

tldr: If you WANT to play a thane, find an RvR group thats cool with a thane in the group and play with them consistently

Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:02 PM by Bradekes

Hector wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 2:31 PM
I don't see why an RvR group wouldn't take one.

Stoicism is the main thing. Also area pbaoe and aoe casted spells can accidentally be pressed causing enemy mezz to drop. Warrior have higher hp to not have to worry as much about healing. If a thane can't cast he is just a weak warrior anyway, with less weaponskill and defenses. Thanes are better in smallman. This is the idea behind thanes not getting in 8mans. On paper they make sense but in application I guess they don't or you'd see more of them in rvr group comps.

Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:53 PM by Foofmonger

Hector wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 2:31 PM
I personally think Thanes are fine in RvR. As with most classes, you need to find a consistent RvR group that is willing to let you play Thane and can support that playstyle. A thane can theoretically peel just fine and has added utility. I don't see why an RvR group wouldn't take one. There is a pervasive problem in DAOC where people just repeat the same s**t they hear over and over again. I.e., Thanes are bad. They have det, ST, slam/guard, snare.. they are absolutely fine. Rafjord played one really well on beta. It's all about the player + group, NOT the class. The same can be said about Friar, Pally, VW, etc.

tldr: If you WANT to play a thane, find an RvR group thats cool with a thane in the group and play with them consistently

Definitely disagree, this is one of the oldest and most debunked "balance" arguments out there in the general game design world.

1. Just because a few people do well on a class (or whatever, in different games it would be a weapon, or any specific "attribute"

, does not mean it is "fine" or "balanced" it means that you have "outliers".
2. If those people playing the effectively underpowered classes who are doing well were to transition to one of the "normalized" classes and would do better, then once again logically we can see that it's just a good player playing an underpowered class, and has nothing to do with the classes own skill ceiling.

So no, it's not about the Player + Group. That's just a lazy analysis.

That being said, I do not know enough a bout Thanes to make an argument either way here, but the methodology you are using to analyze here is fundamentally flawed and not anything anyone in the gaming community has taken seriously in the last 15 years.

When accurately trying to analyze balance, anything less than a comprehensive analysis of skill floor/ceiling, comparisons to alternative options, and overall impact/synergy is just not worth the space it was written on.

Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:16 PM by davidv123

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:58 AM
My SB has problems finding XP groups, could we make all Critstrike styles AOE-Effects? A speed for soloing would also be appreciated

Not asking for anything, We as thanes don't alrdy have. We alrdy have this buff, allow us to use it on our group. wouldn't be much, maybe enough for people to consider us.

Also, Speed could be something as simple as the speed gems, that are on Live. If I am going to be stuck doing a lot of solo runs, at least allow me to move a little faster.

Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:38 PM by Quik

davidv123 wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:16 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:58 AM
My SB has problems finding XP groups, could we make all Critstrike styles AOE-Effects? A speed for soloing would also be appreciated

Not asking for anything, We as thanes don't alrdy have. We alrdy have this buff, allow us to use it on our group. wouldn't be much, maybe enough for people to consider us.

Also, Speed could be something as simple as the speed gems, that are on Live. If I am going to be stuck doing a lot of solo runs, at least allow me to move a little faster.

I have no issues with getting thanes and other hybrids bumped up on the dmg table, but the minute they give speed of ANY kind other than hastener I am done with the server.

I could easily be in the minority but as much as I love DAoC I am really tired of people wanting to solo but still wanting the benefits from other classes.

If you want to solo then deal with what your class offers as a solo, speed classes give up things to get speed.

If Thanes want speed of any kind then they should give up SC to get it.

Sun 27 Jan 2019 12:09 PM by inoeth

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:02 PM
Hector wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 2:31 PM
I don't see why an RvR group wouldn't take one.

Stoicism is the main thing. Also area pbaoe and aoe casted spells can accidentally be pressed causing enemy mezz to drop. Warrior have higher hp to not have to worry as much about healing. If a thane can't cast he is just a weak warrior anyway, with less weaponskill and defenses. Thanes are better in smallman. This is the idea behind thanes not getting in 8mans. On paper they make sense but in application I guess they don't or you'd see more of them in rvr group comps.

warriors have around 2k hp thanes have around 1,8k ...
thanes breaking mezz is one of the oldest myths in daoc...
stoic yes you have a point here but imo 5 min purge is better for thanes anyway
stop to look at thanes like a poor warrior! look at the benefits!

Sun 27 Jan 2019 12:16 PM by keen

Thanes don't have dashing defense, soldiers barricade, and stoicism.
So if you go for a task grp Thane is fine for sure which are 90% of the group's at the moment. For 8v8 ppl will just take a warrior since he is the much better Def tank.

Sun 27 Jan 2019 1:55 PM by Bradekes

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 12:09 PM
warriors have around 2k hp thanes have around 1,8k ...
thanes breaking mezz is one of the oldest myths in daoc...
stoic yes you have a point here but imo 5 min purge is better for thanes anyway
stop to look at thanes like a poor warrior! look at the benefits!

It's all of those little things that add up to the big deal. If thanes were meant to replace warrior then there'd be no warrior. It's a fact warrior are #1 out of all classes on weapon table, meaning they have more weaponskill and hit harder, that's a real hard thing to overlook. Even a hero is a poor mans warrior, when stags on cooldown. So thanes themselves are not bad but most want the pure version, a caster or melee dps/peels, because a single class that does both is not doing it as well. You just lose too much utility.

Thanes can fill gaps for either if the group can't find either but you're going to really have to almost beg. It's not like they have a stigma. Thanes just have a certain role they fit and usually that's smallmans.

Sun 27 Jan 2019 2:32 PM by opossum12

Late in beta (i50 CV phase) I know a mid group was running skald and thane up front as pushers.

Man, was that ever a pain in the butt. Thane is versatile, but I really felt like playing it similar to a valk (up front, using insta dd/pbae) to rupt support, nuke when rooted, slam what’s near, drop ST on clumped casters/support combined with a skald DDs/cc was really strong.

I think they were running something like

Heal
Heal
Sham
Skald
Thane
SM
RM
BD

Against tankers the thane takes the roll of peeler with slam, against caster groups he goes full push mongo/rupts

Stoicsm is a big deal when the class doesn’t have reliable range, like the paladin, reaver and champ. When you have reliable range (thane, friar, vw) then you can do stuff when rooted.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 10:21 AM by inoeth

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Sun 27 Jan 2019 2:32 PM
Late in beta (i50 CV phase) I know a mid group was running skald and thane up front as pushers.

Man, was that ever a pain in the butt. Thane is versatile, but I really felt like playing it similar to a valk (up front, using insta dd/pbae) to rupt support, nuke when rooted, slam what’s near, drop ST on clumped casters/support combined with a skald DDs/cc was really strong.

I think they were running something like

Heal
Heal
Sham
Skald
Thane
SM
RM
BD

Against tankers the thane takes the roll of peeler with slam, against caster groups he goes full push mongo/rupts

Stoicsm is a big deal when the class doesn’t have reliable range, like the paladin, reaver and champ. When you have reliable range (thane, friar, vw) then you can do stuff when rooted.

This^^
You can also stand in the back and assist nuke, this is even more fun when you have a rm debuffing for you.