Potions Are A Requirement To Compete Like Buff Bots Were

For solo and small man fights potions have basically become the new buff bot requirement to compete. Potions just don't give you an edge, in most cases they are the clear reason for beating someone without potions.

The problem is they are a hassle to use and to juggle with their short duration. For most people it is one of the few things that's makes RVR unenjoyable.

Solution 1 : Greatly increase duration
Solution 2: Completely remove buff potions from the game

Back in the day buff potion were introduced to try to help those that did not have a buff bot. With buff bots not being on this server potions are just taking the place as a weaker more fusterating buff bot. If you remove buff potions from the game fights will all be on equal grounds, Classes with buff lines will have a bigger purpose to spec to them. I understand that Alchemists make $ off of potions, I too am an alchemist but there are plenty of ways to make $ and alchemist are still very much needed for other things. I would just like to see the game be as enjoyable as possible.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:44 PM by defiasbandit

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:40 PM
For solo and small man fights potions have basically become the new buff bot requirement to compete. Potions just don't give you an edge, in most cases they are the clear reason for beating someone without potions.

The problem is they are a hassle to use and to juggle with their short duration. For most people it is one of the few things that's makes RVR unenjoyable.

Solution 1 : Greatly increase duration
Solution 2: Completely remove buff potions from the game

Back in the day buff potion were introduced to try to help those that did not have a buff bot. With buff bots not being on this server potions are just taking the place as a weaker more fusterating buff bot. If you remove buff potions from the game fights will all be on equal grounds, Classes with buff lines will have a bigger purpose to spec to them. I understand that Alchemists make $ off of potions, I too am an alchemist but there are plenty of ways to make $ and alchemist are still very much needed for other things. I would just like to see the game be as enjoyable as possible.

Solution 1 is the only solution. You can not remove them or else you would never be able to fight classes who have casted buffs. That would widen the gap even more. The server needs more potion QoL absolutely.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:45 PM by Zansobar

You would also have to completely remove buff charge items from the game because that is what most hardcore players will be using once they 1) acquire enough of them and 2) get enough money to pay for recharging. Those items give +75 dex/qui for 10 mins compared to the 36 dex/qui potions, same with str/con.

What you are running into is one of the three or four major issues with DAOC - this one you are talking about is that Buffs are EXTREMELY powerful.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:48 PM by Pirhana7

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:45 PM
You would also have to completely remove buff charge items from the game because that is what most hardcore players will be using once they 1) acquire enough of them and 2) get enough money to pay for recharging. Those items give +75 dex/qui for 10 mins compared to the 36 dex/qui potions, same with str/con.

What you are running into is one of the three or four major issues with DAOC - this one you are talking about is that Buffs are EXTREMELY powerful.

I agree charges should be removed as well or changed to be the same as potions BUT only if they have a more friendly duration

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:50 PM by defiasbandit

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:45 PM
You would also have to completely remove buff charge items from the game because that is what most hardcore players will be using once they 1) acquire enough of them and 2) get enough money to pay for recharging. Those items give +75 dex/qui for 10 mins compared to the 36 dex/qui potions, same with str/con.

What you are running into is one of the three or four major issues with DAOC - this one you are talking about is that Buffs are EXTREMELY powerful.

Buff potions and charge items need more QoL. Charge buffs and charge DDs should not share a Cooldown for example. Right now you have to wait 2 minutes to use a charge DD after you use a charge buff. Making potions and charge items more accessible to everyone is vital.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:51 PM by Zansobar

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:48 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:45 PM
You would also have to completely remove buff charge items from the game because that is what most hardcore players will be using once they 1) acquire enough of them and 2) get enough money to pay for recharging. Those items give +75 dex/qui for 10 mins compared to the 36 dex/qui potions, same with str/con.

What you are running into is one of the three or four major issues with DAOC - this one you are talking about is that Buffs are EXTREMELY powerful.

I agree charges should be removed as well or changed to be the same as potions BUT only if they have a more friendly duration

Due to how extremely powerful buffs are in DAOC, if you remove the potions and charges then there is no way to compete against classes that have self buffs, such as rangers, champions, hunters, friars (yes friars), etc. They would shoot right to the top of overpowered solo/small man classes.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:51 PM by defiasbandit

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:48 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:45 PM
You would also have to completely remove buff charge items from the game because that is what most hardcore players will be using once they 1) acquire enough of them and 2) get enough money to pay for recharging. Those items give +75 dex/qui for 10 mins compared to the 36 dex/qui potions, same with str/con.

What you are running into is one of the three or four major issues with DAOC - this one you are talking about is that Buffs are EXTREMELY powerful.

I agree charges should be removed as well or changed to be the same as potions BUT only if they have a more friendly duration

Charge items need more QoL and are essential for making RvR more balanced. Many red charge buffs items are easy to obtain.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:53 PM by Zansobar

Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:40 PM
For solo and small man fights potions have basically become the new buff bot requirement to compete. Potions just don't give you an edge, in most cases they are the clear reason for beating someone without potions.

The problem is they are a hassle to use and to juggle with their short duration. For most people it is one of the few things that's makes RVR unenjoyable.

Solution 1 : Greatly increase duration
Solution 2: Completely remove buff potions from the game

Back in the day buff potion were introduced to try to help those that did not have a buff bot. With buff bots not being on this server potions are just taking the place as a weaker more fusterating buff bot. If you remove buff potions from the game fights will all be on equal grounds, Classes with buff lines will have a bigger purpose to spec to them. I understand that Alchemists make $ off of potions, I too am an alchemist but there are plenty of ways to make $ and alchemist are still very much needed for other things. I would just like to see the game be as enjoyable as possible.

Are you aware that there are omni potions at higher level alchemy that buff all with one potion? Yes they are more expensive and I think cost phoenix feathers to make, but clicking one quickbar icon once every 10 minutes isn't too complicated to me.

Thu 17 Jan 2019 9:00 PM by Pirhana7

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:53 PM
Pirhana7 wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Jan 2019 8:40 PM
For solo and small man fights potions have basically become the new buff bot requirement to compete. Potions just don't give you an edge, in most cases they are the clear reason for beating someone without potions.

The problem is they are a hassle to use and to juggle with their short duration. For most people it is one of the few things that's makes RVR unenjoyable.

Solution 1 : Greatly increase duration
Solution 2: Completely remove buff potions from the game

Back in the day buff potion were introduced to try to help those that did not have a buff bot. With buff bots not being on this server potions are just taking the place as a weaker more fusterating buff bot. If you remove buff potions from the game fights will all be on equal grounds, Classes with buff lines will have a bigger purpose to spec to them. I understand that Alchemists make $ off of potions, I too am an alchemist but there are plenty of ways to make $ and alchemist are still very much needed for other things. I would just like to see the game be as enjoyable as possible.

Are you aware that there are omni potions at higher level alchemy that buff all with one potion? Yes they are more expensive and I think cost phoenix feathers to make, but clicking one quickbar icon once every 10 minutes isn't too complicated to me.

I was not aware, thank you for sharing. That would help with the potion frustration atleast, but I still think the game would be much more balanced with potions and charges

Thu 17 Jan 2019 10:01 PM by teiloh

Full buffed, your stats are 50-60% from buffs with the remainder from progression.

It should be closer to 15-20% vs 80-85% IMO.

All stat buff abilities and lines would be re-evaluated with other abilities substituted in. I think this would be good for the game, DAOC's buff system was always a clunky mess.

Fri 18 Jan 2019 2:59 AM by Armsmancer

This was already debated to death over and over throughout beta. They aren't going to gut Alchemy by removing potions.

They already did balancing on this, and won't be changing it based off the whims and gut feelings of what it "should" be based off some random forum post with such hard data like this above like the effectiveness and what it should be, I mean the source for this is what, your butt? You'd have to up your game a lot with actual hard data, not what you used above as your %'s.

Everyone has access to buff pots, just like SC'd gear that everyone has access to, and if you ignore getting it to be on the same level as everyone else you do so at your own peril.

You can attempt to rationalize nerfing potion buffs in tons of ways but they aren't going to make the changes you currently feel should be done. There are dozens of pages of discussion on this from beta still here if you want to go see, but the best arguments were tossed at it and no changes have been made.

Going from 10min to 20min however would be a welcome change, even if you double mat cost just for the QOL, pls.

Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:20 AM by rubaduck

I am just gonna put this out here right now, but I have on multiple occasions stated this opinion: DAOC is, and never was a solo focused game. It doesn't cater to solo players, and my opinion is that it never should. I play smallman and group only so you might call me biased, but changing on

The only reason the buffs are there is to put a common ground level. They are not there to give an "edge", but to make non-self buff more balanced towards the self-buff classes. It is a very delicate line here, because once you cater to solo players you create an atmosphere where people just don't want to group up but rather reap the rewards alone.

So yes, potions are required. But not to compete like buff bots, actually, just take the whole "buff bot" out of the equation because it is not here, nor will it be. It is there to make sure that every class has a winning chance on a solo level without disturbing groups. It is just as hard as usual, maybe even harder and I for one am glad it stays like that. If you like a steamroller for solo, go minstrel. It's what everyone else is doing.

Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:39 PM by Raunz

Agree same with charges, may as well add buff npc at pk.

Thank you.
Raunz

Wed 23 Jan 2019 3:23 PM by Azeth123

My only concern for buff potions are that they do not allow buffs so high that eventually we arent even using the various buff specs in groups.

Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:01 PM by Bradekes

If you all want to be honest with yourselves, GM included, you know this has truth to it. The title is correct. While it isn't as extreme as a buffbot, it does set a precedence towards needing buff charges and pots for the average player. With all the QoL changes this one is most game affecting. You gotta think why were procs added to all ROG gear but no buff potions added to drop loot table, because both are forms of income for alchemists.

It is fair as far as everyone having access to it, but I'd honestly prefer not having to worry about things like this being a constant part of my everyday gaming experience. 10min charges mean the pots can disappear mid-fight leaving your opponent with a huge advantage while you don't have endo or extra stats for the remainder of the fight.

To me this is a pseudo-buffbot that just adds an extra element of player maintenance I do not enjoy. Just add infinite buff potion with longer duration to everyones inventory and call it a day or add buff charge on personal bind stone. No need for this fluff alchemist hard to obtain crap. Embrace the idea and hand it out as part of the benefits to playing on phoenix.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:46 AM by Meandow

There is literally a potion that gives you every buff with 100 charges? How is it a hassle?

Personally been using pots with 10 charges each up until now and it's not been too bad, you can have every profession and reaching the level to make them is like a plat, max.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:49 AM by Sepplord

Meandow wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:46 AM
you can have every profession and reaching the level to make them is like a plat, max.

Show me your ways master

No, seriously, how do i level alchemy from 900-1050 cheaply?

Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:50 AM by Meandow

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:49 AM
Meandow wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:46 AM
you can have every profession and reaching the level to make them is like a plat, max.

Show me your ways master

No, seriously, how do i level alchemy from 900-1050 cheaply?

Huh, 10 charge buff potions are like 500ish skill, no?

Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:52 AM by Sepplord

i thought you were talking about the 100charges ones *sadface*

Thu 24 Jan 2019 10:04 AM by inoeth

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:20 AM
I am just gonna put this out here right now, but I have on multiple occasions stated this opinion: DAOC is, and never was a solo focused game. It doesn't cater to solo players, and my opinion is that it never should. I play smallman and group only so you might call me biased, but changing on

The only reason the buffs are there is to put a common ground level. They are not there to give an "edge", but to make non-self buff more balanced towards the self-buff classes. It is a very delicate line here, because once you cater to solo players you create an atmosphere where people just don't want to group up but rather reap the rewards alone.

So yes, potions are required. But not to compete like buff bots, actually, just take the whole "buff bot" out of the equation because it is not here, nor will it be. It is there to make sure that every class has a winning chance on a solo level without disturbing groups. It is just as hard as usual, maybe even harder and I for one am glad it stays like that. If you like a steamroller for solo, go minstrel. It's what everyone else is doing.

if so why was the title "lone enforcer" introduced? your argument is invalid. also this was never stated by mythic or anyone else in charge of daoc

Thu 24 Jan 2019 11:32 AM by Bradekes

Meandow wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:46 AM
There is literally a potion that gives you every buff with 100 charges? How is it a hassle?

Personally been using pots with 10 charges each up until now and it's not been too bad, you can have every profession and reaching the level to make them is like a plat, max.

The hassle comes from having to press a button 6 times an hour, and if you forget to at the wrong time you just lost a fight for a really arbitrary reason.

I do not like things that cause extra unnecessary upkeep. If everyone is going to have these anyway, why not just make it a more cohesive part of the game? Instead of acting like this isn't bothersome that 3k people have to repeatedly press a pointless button on a never ending cycle of perpetual tediousness, let's try to find a better solution that has the same effect and doesn't add pointless headache that could easily be resolved. THANKS!

Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:15 PM by rubaduck

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 10:04 AM
if so why was the title "lone enforcer" introduced? your argument is invalid. also this was never stated by mythic or anyone else in charge of daoc

To give soloer something to work towards, but that doesn't mean it's an easy goal to reach. Just because it is encouraged to solo doesn't mean the game was designed. I can go deep in to this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:46 PM by inoeth

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:15 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 10:04 AM
if so why was the title "lone enforcer" introduced? your argument is invalid. also this was never stated by mythic or anyone else in charge of daoc

To give soloer something to work towards, but that doesn't mean it's an easy goal to reach. Just because it is encouraged to solo doesn't mean the game was designed. I can go deep in to this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

that does not make any sense.... why would a game encourage ppl to play solo when it was not designed to do so?
can you give me a hint where to find evidence that daoc was not designed to play solo? maybe a statement from matt firor or marc jacobs?

Thu 24 Jan 2019 3:17 PM by Meandow

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 11:32 AM
Meandow wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 9:46 AM
There is literally a potion that gives you every buff with 100 charges? How is it a hassle?

Personally been using pots with 10 charges each up until now and it's not been too bad, you can have every profession and reaching the level to make them is like a plat, max.

The hassle comes from having to press a button 6 times an hour, and if you forget to at the wrong time you just lost a fight for a really arbitrary reason.

I do not like things that cause extra unnecessary upkeep. If everyone is going to have these anyway, why not just make it a more cohesive part of the game? Instead of acting like this isn't bothersome that 3k people have to repeatedly press a pointless button on a never ending cycle of perpetual tediousness, let's try to find a better solution that has the same effect and doesn't add pointless headache that could easily be resolved. THANKS!

Well I can agree on the duration, I wouldn't be against them increasing it to 23m or whatever the other duration buffs were changed to.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:11 PM by rubaduck

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:46 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:15 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 10:04 AM
if so why was the title "lone enforcer" introduced? your argument is invalid. also this was never stated by mythic or anyone else in charge of daoc

To give soloer something to work towards, but that doesn't mean it's an easy goal to reach. Just because it is encouraged to solo doesn't mean the game was designed. I can go deep in to this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

that does not make any sense.... why would a game encourage ppl to play solo when it was not designed to do so?
can you give me a hint where to find evidence that daoc was not designed to play solo? maybe a statement from matt firor or marc jacobs?

I can't, so let me rephrase it, and then I'll drop it because we have to agree to disagree on this matter. My opinion of the game, has always been this since it's release: It's a team oriented player versus player game for small man up to 8 man. The solo part is poorly designed, very unbalanced, and should not be catered to on any given point.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:34 PM by inoeth

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:11 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:46 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:15 PM
To give soloer something to work towards, but that doesn't mean it's an easy goal to reach. Just because it is encouraged to solo doesn't mean the game was designed. I can go deep in to this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

that does not make any sense.... why would a game encourage ppl to play solo when it was not designed to do so?
can you give me a hint where to find evidence that daoc was not designed to play solo? maybe a statement from matt firor or marc jacobs?

I can't, so let me rephrase it, and then I'll drop it because we have to agree to disagree on this matter. My opinion of the game, has always been this since it's release: It's a team oriented player versus player game for small man up to 8 man. The solo part is poorly designed, very unbalanced, and should not be catered to on any given point.

so its your opinion! thats ok but just not true^^ btw why does it stop at 8mans? zerg fights not allowed?

Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:36 PM by Bradekes

Meandow wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 3:17 PM
Well I can agree on the duration, I wouldn't be against them increasing it to 23m or whatever the other duration buffs were changed to.

I think a normal 23min buff duration and remove the buff pots and make it a gem in everyone's inventory like recall stone w/2minute cooldown infinite uses. Literally everyone is going to need them and there's no need for extra hassle of acquiring and maintaining a stock. Making sure not to put endo or pom charges because that wouldn't be cool, just stat buff.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:46 PM by Magesty

Here is something I posted in August when a similar thread came up:
“How is this for a solution: Remove stat buff and regen potions from the game.

Potions were originally designed in an effort to allow players to feel like they could compete without a buffbot. Guess what? There are no bots here. So now we are stuck with a tedious system that was essentially a throw in to try to hang on to subscribers that weren’t willing to/couldn’t maintain a bot account as a core RvR mechanic. Even very casual players at this point know that you have to use potions to compete. Ignoring the effect they have on class balance, why have a system in the game that is anti-fun and redundant? Is it a method of deflating gold value? Is the Alchemists’ Union exerting pressure on the devs? Are people so tied to the “Uthgard Classic” setting that they can’t imagine life without buff potions? It’s a mystery to me how potions weren’t immediately done away with by any server disallowing bots.

So here we are. 2018. Botless but still constrained by buffs.”

Now, my opinions on this topic are a little more nuanced than they were five whole months ago. I think in an ideal world you take out potions and nerf stat buffs across the board on top of it.

Failing this it seems like a no brainer to at least increase buff duration to 20+ minutes. I can’t see a solid argument not to do so. As a disclaimer I have something like 1075 Alchemy and would gladly see the 10+ plat I’ve dumped into it dry up if it means potions have their duration increased or are done away with entirely. It’s a terrible mechanic and there are much better ways to deal with gold and feather inflation. Here’s one: reduce the amount of both you receive while playing the game.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:50 PM by rubaduck

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:34 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:11 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 1:46 PM
that does not make any sense.... why would a game encourage ppl to play solo when it was not designed to do so?
can you give me a hint where to find evidence that daoc was not designed to play solo? maybe a statement from matt firor or marc jacobs?

I can't, so let me rephrase it, and then I'll drop it because we have to agree to disagree on this matter. My opinion of the game, has always been this since it's release: It's a team oriented player versus player game for small man up to 8 man. The solo part is poorly designed, very unbalanced, and should not be catered to on any given point.

so its your opinion! thats ok but just not true^^ btw why does it stop at 8mans? zerg fights not allowed?

Yes, my opinion is that solo gameplay is poorly designed in the game, and should not be catered to. And we (FD) actually leave soloers alone in RvR to give them space, until the second they add to a fight. I keep a list when I play the game with names and they are on our kill list if they have added.

I am not saying it ain't allowed, but the game is designed for a group up to 8 and we don't do anything beyond that. If people want to solo, take the consequence of poor game design, and if you want to zerg then go ahead. We won't participate in zergs unless we are against odds.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:19 PM by Bradekes

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 4:46 PM
So here we are. 2018. Botless but still constrained by buffs.”

Now, my opinions on this topic are a little more nuanced than they were five whole months ago. I think in an ideal world you take out potions and nerf stat buffs across the board on top of it.

The only problem with removing buffs or lowering their effectiveness is it would unbalance PVE and they would have to adjust a whole bunch of things to compensate.

I am not a fan of DAoC's buff system or its buffs compensation plan. When I play a game I don't like feeling completely powerless without some peripheral source. Buffs are just too game affecting.

But it seems it's just too much an integral part of the game so there needs to be a system. I think the "self buff" classes need some self buffs reworked or removed and just put in line with other classes through other means of balance. Then having buffs wouldn't trump a self buff classes niche and buff pots and buffs wouldn't be so controversial.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:42 PM by Magesty

True, it would change PvE a bit. I don’t know that the adjustments would necessarily be some Sisyphean task. You could do something simple like increasing experience gain from monsters across the board. Maybe just the bonus xp from red+?

That being said, it’s pretty unrealistic to expect the dev team to make any changes to potions outside of increasing the potion timer, and honestly, that change should be made no questions asked. Fixing the potion issue has been lobbied for since the beginning of beta and it has been largely ignored, so unfortunately I don’t think we will even be seeing a 20m timer anytime soon.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:51 PM by Bradekes

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:42 PM
True, it would change PvE a bit. I don’t know that the adjustments would necessarily be some Sisyphean task. You could do something simple like increasing experience gain from monsters across the board. Maybe just the bonus xp from red+?

No like high level PVE. Try tanking a level 70+ boss or mob without good buffs. Also I'm a huge fan of focus pulling pet classes which always makes me giddy, nerfing that would be painful to me in my soul.

Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:54 AM by inoeth

who cares about pve? i mean who is tanking a lvl 70 mob with buff pots? LOL

REMOVE ALL BUFF POTS!!

or what about a limitation to one buff pot (one buff, not the allbuff pot) or/and one charge + endu buff.... in this scenario selfbuff classes can still benefit from their own buffs and all others have a chance to compete and alchys dont lose their jobs ... win/win?

Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:01 AM by Sepplord

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:54 AM
who cares about pve? i mean who is tanking a lvl 70 mob with buff pots? LOL

REMOVE ALL BUFF POTS!!

or what about a limitation to one buff pot (one buff, not the allbuff pot) or/and one charge + endu buff.... in this scenario selfbuff classes can still benefit from their own buffs and all others have a chance to compete and alchys dont lose their jobs ... win/win?

they were talking about the hypothecial option of nerfing buffs from buffclasses too across the board, because buffs are too strong overall.
Just explaining btw. not my own opinion

Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:07 AM by inoeth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:01 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:54 AM
who cares about pve? i mean who is tanking a lvl 70 mob with buff pots? LOL

REMOVE ALL BUFF POTS!!

or what about a limitation to one buff pot (one buff, not the allbuff pot) or/and one charge + endu buff.... in this scenario selfbuff classes can still benefit from their own buffs and all others have a chance to compete and alchys dont lose their jobs ... win/win?

they were talking about the hypothecial option of nerfing buffs from buffclasses too across the board, because buffs are too strong overall.
Just explaining btw. not my own opinion

ah i seem to have overlooked that.... well this could also be concidered if the mobs were lowered in lvl a bit. in fact i think that would be a very good change!