What is stronger and why? Thanks all
Nightshade vs Infiltrator
Started 20 Jan 2019
by
worldknown
in
RvR
Sun 20 Jan 2019 10:06 PM
by
Expfighter
Nightshade, instant dd's? how many infs are going to pull out a xbow in a fight? 0
Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:23 AM
by
Tavi
I would guess in most 1v1 infi wins, but overall ns has way more utility...
Mon 21 Jan 2019 12:52 PM
by
Kvothe The Bloodless
Dragonfang is a big advantage for infils and are probably superior sub RR5, once NS reaches the higher RRs they become stronger I think.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 10:22 PM
by
The Skies Asunder
I never felt like the extra points made an unfair advantage for Infiltrator on the Live servers, so it shouldn't be much of an issue here either. The NS magic is actually really useful, and seems to be buffed slightly here. As far as Dragonfang goes, yes it is very strong, but the NS has a stun as well. It isn't as long, but whoever lands it first will probably win either way. Overall I find them pretty well balanced, though Infiltrator has better race options IMO.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:49 AM
by
rubaduck
Nightshade is the class that scales a lot heavier, while Infil is more a jack of all trades and will be strong early and mid RR. High RR (9+) a NS will be stronger statistically, but it all depends on the player.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 7:54 AM
by
Sepplord
where would you (or others) say that the SB shines?
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:42 PM
by
Zansobar
rubaduck wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:49 AMNightshade is the class that scales a lot heavier, while Infil is more a jack of all trades and will be strong early and mid RR. High RR (9+) a NS will be stronger statistically, but it all depends on the player.
Why is a NS stronger "statistically" than an inf at high RR?
Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:51 PM
by
Dimir
Zansobar wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:42 PMrubaduck wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:49 AMNightshade is the class that scales a lot heavier, while Infil is more a jack of all trades and will be strong early and mid RR. High RR (9+) a NS will be stronger statistically, but it all depends on the player.
Why is a NS stronger "statistically" than an inf at high RR?
I can think of almost no reasons. Technically they can have a higher evade chance, but barely, countered by the higher WS from Infils. NS also have less flexibility changing damage type to Slash because that 40 base strength
They can get 250 qui easier but that's offset by having less hps.
Infil > NS imo
Thu 24 Jan 2019 12:58 AM
by
Cirath
Dimir wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:51 PMZansobar wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:42 PMrubaduck wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:49 AMNightshade is the class that scales a lot heavier, while Infil is more a jack of all trades and will be strong early and mid RR. High RR (9+) a NS will be stronger statistically, but it all depends on the player.
Why is a NS stronger "statistically" than an inf at high RR?
I can think of almost no reasons. Technically they can have a higher evade chance, but barely, countered by the higher WS from Infils. NS also have less flexibility changing damage type to Slash because that 40 base strength
They can get 250 qui easier but that's offset by having less hps.
Infil > NS imo
This. Classically NS became stronger at higher realm ranks due to acces to some unique and strong RA's (avoid pain, viper, remedy, wild arcana etc.). It was a bit of a payoff for struggling throughthe low RR where they were inferior to the other two assasins. However, on Phoenix, with its watered down, vanilla, all assasins are the same RA's there is no real reason to ever pick a NS over an inf, or maybe even a SB. Aside from the fact that elves are pimp of course.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 6:48 AM
by
Koljar
I'd love to see that statistic. There's a saying in my native language translating to: "Don't trust a statustic unless you tweaked it yourself..." 
Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:18 PM
by
Kvothe The Bloodless
Cirath wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jan 2019 12:58 AMDimir wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 8:51 PMZansobar wrote: ↑Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:42 PMWhy is a NS stronger "statistically" than an inf at high RR?
I can think of almost no reasons. Technically they can have a higher evade chance, but barely, countered by the higher WS from Infils. NS also have less flexibility changing damage type to Slash because that 40 base strength
They can get 250 qui easier but that's offset by having less hps.
Infil > NS imo
This. Classically NS became stronger at higher realm ranks due to acces to some unique and strong RA's (avoid pain, viper, remedy, wild arcana etc.). It was a bit of a payoff for struggling throughthe low RR where they were inferior to the other two assasins. However, on Phoenix, with its watered down, vanilla, all assasins are the same RA's there is no real reason to ever pick a NS over an inf, or maybe even a SB. Aside from the fact that elves are pimp of course.
wasn't aware of this, as you say was basing it on old knowledge.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 12:40 AM
by
krycek
I'm having a lot of fun on my gimp shade atm. Maybe cuz relic bonuses? Dunno.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:44 AM
by
Eckso
With the inception of New Frontiers RAs, each assassain is roughly at the same level.
On paper Infs do get more spec pts, but if the Inf is forced to spec 50 levels into weapon line for one skill, and SBs and NS do not, I’d say that gives them a decided advantage as well.
At the end of the day, it’s the player that makes the class.
Good luck out there
On paper Infs do get more spec pts, but if the Inf is forced to spec 50 levels into weapon line for one skill, and SBs and NS do not, I’d say that gives them a decided advantage as well.
At the end of the day, it’s the player that makes the class.
Good luck out there
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:12 PM
by
Isavyr
Eckso wrote: ↑Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:44 AMWith the inception of New Frontiers RAs, each assassain is roughly at the same level.
On paper Infs do get more spec pts, but if the Inf is forced to spec 50 levels into weapon line for one skill, and SBs and NS do not, I’d say that gives them a decided advantage as well.
At the end of the day, it’s the player that makes the class.
Good luck out there
With a 35-all spec, a nightshade has enough spec points to boost their piercing to 39. Meanwhile, the infiltrator with a 35-spec can do 49 thrust. So essentially, Dragonfang can be seen as "free" due to infils getting 2.5x instead of 2.2x spec-points.
Nor are infiltrators forced to spec 50 thrust to be competitive--quite the opposite. They get some of the best evade stuns at the lowest investment; with 15 points into Thrust, they get Beartooth (6s evade stun), meanwhile Nightshade gets a 5s evade stun at 25 points into Piercing. Shadowblade has it arguably the worst, with a 2-chain 6s stun @ 34 Axe, or 2-chain 7s stun @ 39 Left Axe. The point is, infiltrator doesn't need to spec high for a good stun--they can some of the best at the lowest investment (Though let's be clear, everyone will have 35 weapon @ level 50, making investment below 35 only relevant to battlegrounds).
Infiltrator pros
. Best dueling styles (Dragonfang lvl 50 Thrust 9s evade stun, Dual Shadows, lvl 50 DW front positional with very high DPS)
. Most spec points gives more flexibility
. Shadowmerc spec (Nightshade has no real equivalent to this)
Nightshade pros
. Insta DD is OK rupt (700 range, 20s cooldown makes it only so-so). Its damage doesn't bridge the overall DPS difference between the two in a duel.
. Best Ranged DPS against Tanks (the nightshade DD will deal about double the DPS of a crossbow. Against cloth targets, expect more similar ranged DPS between the two)
In my opinion, the nightshade pros are less significant compared to the infiltrator pros, making the infiltrator a better choice.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:29 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Things would be more equal if Celt NS was a thing here.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:49 PM
by
Isavyr
Sorry to say, but Celt changes the picture very little. Actually, quickness is a more significant factor in physical DPS, which Hibernia is blessed with. So Celt would be worse than Lurikeen, for example.
The styles are the most significant differences between the assassins, followed by characteristics like: guaranteed dual swing, ranged DD, insta DD, option for 2h perf, spec point amount.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:55 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Isavyr wrote: ↑Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:49 PM
Sorry to say, but Celt changes the picture very little. Actually, quickness is a more significant factor in physical DPS, which Hibernia is blessed with. So Celt would be worse than Lurikeen, for example.
The styles are the most significant differences between the assassins, followed by characteristics like: guaranteed dual swing, ranged DD, insta DD, option for 2h perf, spec point amount.
It would certainly help a lot with Blades. Race matters little on live, with everyone able to hit the soft cap of 400 much easier with temps. Here on Phoenix however, stats matter a lot more. I did some preliminary testing and got results that showed, for example, that Aug Str (over time) does more damage than Mastery of Pain. Of course we all like the big hits so MoP is sexier. Anyways I brought that up to show that stats matter. The biggest draw for a Celt NS is to be able to use Blades at an equivalent WeaponSkill and damage as a Briton Infil. Blades is important because it has Spectrum Blade, one of the best styles in the game.
Without Celt NS Hibernia is lagging behind stat-wise, not just in Strength but also in Con.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:59 PM
by
Isavyr
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:55 PMIt would certainly help a lot with Blades...
...Without Celt NS Hibernia is lagging behind stat-wise, not just in Strength but also in Con.
That's definitely true regarding Blades. Regarding Con, I'm not sure. I'd have to see the numbers, but I'm fairly sure the DPS gained from quickness exceeds the small HP differences in constitution.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:38 AM
by
hmjek
In a sin vs sin situation only use your cs evade styles. Don’t use your evade stun right away because every sin has their purge up especially if it’s only 5min here. If you use your evade stun in the beginning of the fight they will purge and your debuffs on them will be gone. Most sins won’t purge in a 1v1 sin fight unless they get stunned
Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:16 PM
by
Stimmed
I feel NS vs Inf in the grand scheme of things is very close. And will come down to Rng evades or crits most the time in a fight if both are same skill level.
SB is def behind a bit but its not instant loss territory by any means.
SB is def behind a bit but its not instant loss territory by any means.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.
Return to RvR or the latest topics