Relic Strategy and Insta Porting

Earlier today, because there was no mids/albs to fight, Hibs spent 2+ hours taking every Alb keep and then took the Alb Power relic. It was then placed in Scath Keep.
Later tonight, 5fg mids hit Scath, killed the lord, and picked up the relic in less than 10min easily. Very nice design. Also, there was no server message that Scath was under attack or that the Alb Power relic was removed from Scath. This should be changed.

The mids begin to run the relic back.
Hibs chase and kill the mids in breifine(1), but the relic holder and a few others kept running away.
Hibs continue to chase and caught up to relic in emain, but the Mids insta spawn, ran back, and died stalling (2). Relic runs away.
Hibs chase to MMG and see the relic yet again, but the Mids insta spawn throwing endless bodies at MMG and die stalling (3). You guessed it, relic never stops.

Don't get me wrong, i love that you don't have to wait on a pad to port. I love that you respawn in the zone you're fighting in. But it feels like we're fighting braindead zombies that repeatedly throw themselves at you just to stall. What's to stop people from doing this EVERY TIME they take a relic?

Sun 20 Jan 2019 7:54 AM by florin

Q predicted this

Sun 20 Jan 2019 8:07 AM by Pao

Relic mechanic got the mario kart treatment.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 11:38 AM by Tree

I have absolutel zero clue why they introduced such a radical change to relic warfare at the last minute of beta. And then after the massive negative feedback they received did not go back to the usual system admitting that this probably needs more thought and work. What a disaster.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 12:07 PM by Vanquish

Ardri wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 7:42 AM
Earlier today, because there was no mids/albs to fight, Hibs spent 2+ hours taking every Alb keep and then took the Alb Power relic. It was then placed in Scath Keep.
Later tonight, 5fg mids hit Scath, killed the lord, and picked up the relic in less than 10min easily. Very nice design. Also, there was no server message that Scath was under attack or that the Alb Power relic was removed from Scath. This should be changed.

The mids begin to run the relic back.
Hibs chase and kill the mids in breifine(1), but the relic holder and a few others kept running away.
Hibs continue to chase and caught up to relic in emain, but the Mids insta spawn, ran back, and died stalling (2). Relic runs away.
Hibs chase to MMG and see the relic yet again, but the Mids insta spawn throwing endless bodies at MMG and die stalling (3). You guessed it, relic never stops.

Don't get me wrong, i love that you don't have to wait on a pad to port. I love that you respawn in the zone you're fighting in. But it feels like we're fighting braindead zombies that repeatedly throw themselves at you just to stall. What's to stop people from doing this EVERY TIME they take a relic?

You think they keep the 3+ minute timer on Uth to annoy us?

There are tactical elements to the game design that has cascading effects if altered, this is just 1 example that hasn't been thought through, and im sure many more will come to light in time.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 12:31 PM by opossum12

They implemented the remic changes after hib had all the relics for most of the beta. The goal is to promote relics changing hands really often.

The issue is that the change was made when 30 people were left playing beta, so the issue that seems to have hapenned was never tested.

- Do you slow ports when a relic is taken? Considering the defending realm has to run?
- Do you make the keep holding the enemy relic a much harder keep to take so the defending force can defend?
- Do you make the relic carrier run slowly (normal speed without sprint)?

Sun 20 Jan 2019 3:08 PM by Takii

It may be hard to determine when those slower port timers kick in imo. Do you make it so if one Mid is holding a relic in a particular frontier, the porter to that particular frontier for Mid is delayed? What if they drop the relic intentionally to let people port in? Does the port delay linger for a few minutes?

I would say that making the relic cancel any speed on the carrier would be a good start. The server is a week old. I'm not a huge fan of the changes they made to relics (other than nerfed bonuses) but let's give those changes enough time to be tested properly. A sample size of 1 isn't great.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 6:22 PM by Turtle006

Delaying enemy forces so that the main objective can be completed sounds like exactly the right strategy any army ever would take. They are not "mindless zombies" the primary goal is the relic, they did everything they could to make sure the relic escaped.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 7:21 PM by Frigzy

Implement special realm wide defense messages regarding all keeps which hold relics.

Implement a 3-5min frontiers port timer for all realms once any relic is out in the field, picked up by someone or not is irrelevant. A relic out in the open means increased timer until it gets deposited.

All BG and regular ports remain instant.

Would these things fix it?

Sun 20 Jan 2019 8:28 PM by Paulberios

There was a message that it was removed. Claiming a keep generates the message to the owning guild. Perhaps be more selective about who claims the RK. With regard to the port timers, ya that needs a change.

Sun 20 Jan 2019 11:07 PM by kedelin

Ardri wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 7:42 AM
Earlier today, because there was no mids/albs to fight, Hibs spent 2+ hours taking every Alb keep and then took the Alb Power relic. It was then placed in Scath Keep.
Later tonight, 5fg mids hit Scath, killed the lord, and picked up the relic in less than 10min easily. Very nice design. Also, there was no server message that Scath was under attack or that the Alb Power relic was removed from Scath. This should be changed.

The mids begin to run the relic back.
Hibs chase and kill the mids in breifine(1), but the relic holder and a few others kept running away.
Hibs continue to chase and caught up to relic in emain, but the Mids insta spawn, ran back, and died stalling (2). Relic runs away.
Hibs chase to MMG and see the relic yet again, but the Mids insta spawn throwing endless bodies at MMG and die stalling (3). You guessed it, relic never stops.

Don't get me wrong, i love that you don't have to wait on a pad to port. I love that you respawn in the zone you're fighting in. But it feels like we're fighting braindead zombies that repeatedly throw themselves at you just to stall. What's to stop people from doing this EVERY TIME they take a relic?

First of all in brefine 2 of the groups purposely stoped to engage and give the relic group and 3 other mid groups a head start.. I know our group never died but once the relic was through mmg we stayed at mmg to Stahl the 4 fghs... so your qqing about not being able to over run 5 plus fg mid? The part about not getting a message fall on the realm as a whole for putting the relic in a keep claimed by a smaller guild that doesn't have numbers on to report attacks... plus if you go back to old relics you will have to greatly reduce gaurd and Lord hit points, as is it took 5 fgs about 8 mins to kill the lord itself... I have seen 2 to 3 groups wipe to gourds if there is 3 people defending a keep

Mon 21 Jan 2019 3:20 AM by depth

Mon 21 Jan 2019 4:11 AM by dansari

Do you think taking every alb keep has something to do with shrooms aggroing and bombing through doors and without los, and hib groups purposely and deliberately exploiting this bug?

Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:39 AM by Spraggon

kedelin wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 11:07 PM
Ardri wrote: ↑
Sun 20 Jan 2019 7:42 AM
...

First of all in brefine 2 of the groups purposely stoped to engage and give the relic group and 3 other mid groups a head start.. I know our group never died but once the relic was through mmg we stayed at mmg to Stahl the 4 fghs... so your qqing about not being able to over run 5 plus fg mid? The part about not getting a message fall on the realm as a whole for putting the relic in a keep claimed by a smaller guild that doesn't have numbers on to report attacks... plus if you go back to old relics you will have to greatly reduce gaurd and Lord hit points, as is it took 5 fgs about 8 mins to kill the lord itself... I have seen 2 to 3 groups wipe to gourds if there is 3 people defending a keep

To be fair, "purposely stopped to engage" is very generous. We were mainly drunk and stumbled back into a fight. Luckily Hibs didnt realize they could move in 2d space.

Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:20 AM by Ceen

Relics not stored in relic keep will change often, thats by design.
Lets give it a few weeks to see how it works out instead of creating a drama around relics.
You can not test relic system in beta with 150 anyways, now its 3k+ as we all wanted

Remember the relic situation on Uthgard, so much fun? ^^

Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:32 AM by Karqa

Nothing in Uthgard was fun.....

Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:48 AM by

Tyrael

Just a small note to say that we are aware of how the last relic raid played out and are discussing this internally. Stay tuned!

Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:02 PM by Stiv

I never minded waiting on the pad. Forgetting my necklace on the other hand...

Tue 22 Jan 2019 11:51 AM by Paulberios

Tyrael wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:48 AM
Just a small note to say that we are aware of how the last relic raid played out and are discussing this internally. Stay tuned!

Good deal.

Tue 22 Jan 2019 7:34 PM by kedelin

Tyrael wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:48 AM
Just a small note to say that we are aware of how the last relic raid played out and are discussing this internally. Stay tuned!

I really hope you leave the relics how they are ... if you store them in the relic keeps they will never change. Hands again

Wed 23 Jan 2019 9:54 AM by

Tyrael

We are not currently planning to revert the relics to how they were before. Instead, our vision is to optimise the existing mechanic as we believe this maximises relic interaction. We will provide an update as soon as we have one

Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:21 PM by Raunz

I whined about relics being in game whole beta and the solution Phoenix team did is actually ok, i'm just fine with how it is right now.

Imagine hibs having 20% power and str relics right now with the old system LUL, half the pop would of quit already as they would never be able to leave portal keeps.

Wed 23 Jan 2019 2:49 PM by Ardri

Raunz wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jan 2019 1:21 PM
I whined about relics being in game whole beta and the solution Phoenix team did is actually ok, i'm just fine with how it is right now.

Imagine hibs having 20% power and str relics right now with the old system LUL, half the pop would of quit already as they would never be able to leave portal keeps.

Ya, the nerf was definitely needed, but at the same time the change made them essentially worthless. If mid still has the alb power relic, it's only on day 3/10 charged up which is 2% out of a total possible 5% ? Really a joke tbh when you consider the other insane % increases to rps/feathers/xp. And with current mechanics of it being in a regular keep/insta respawn the relic could easily be taken in a matter of 30min.

Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:01 PM by Lewk

Realm tasks provide a solo -> small man -> FG Objective that can be engaged in by anyone. Keeps provide a 1+ FG activity. Relics in normal keeps provide a 3fg+ activity. Relic keeps provide a zerg+ activity. I think the whole idea to keep relics switching hands often is great, as i never liked the % dmg/heal bonuses anyways and this provides achievable objectives and generates action.

Yes, it is lopsided that the attackers can insta port and the closer they get to their PK, the more likely it is they get away, but i think the players will evolve over time, and the devs have always implemented good common sense changes and im sure they will do the same here.

Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:38 PM by Yeeha

I think the changes they did to the relics are great, they were too powerful before. now the relics are very mobile and it creates a lot of action, one of my main critiques of uthgard was that the zones were just too big for the population, here you have nice focuspoints (and a huuuuuuge population).

Also, keepraids require more than 1 fg, we did raid bled at night once when there was no action (we may have been rdy too early), took us 1.5hours to finish

Only things i would change is serverwide msgs if the keep that holds a relic is attacked, other than that i think its quite nice. Now all we need to do is wait for albion to get a few setgrps going, the action is increasing every day, its great