Hero, BM, or champ? - Phoenix Freeshard

Torn between which one to play. Friend is pretty locked into playing a warden so I’ll have base buffs and some form of speed at least.

Pros/cons of each one at this patch level?
(Mostly into solo/small man RvR, but don’t mind 8v8 either)

Thanks in advance!

Wed 9 Jan 2019 8:26 PM by jenskamen

For solo/smalman i would pick champ since the debuffs are devastating for your opponent but for 8man BM is the more solid pick.
Hero i would also put more in the 8man than in smalman but the 8man advantage for the BM is that you find groups easier since you fill more than the one peeler slot that heros takes with him.

If i would have to choose (wich i already did for myself) for a 8man class that can also do really devent solo: champ it is.
Sure a BM would be picked before you in most cases but since it excells the other two in solo/smalnam i would pick champ anytime

Wed 9 Jan 2019 8:32 PM by Tomthabom10

How do champs compare to hero’s and BMs when it comes to damage and survivability?

Also What race/spec you thinking about for a champ?

Thu 10 Jan 2019 3:25 PM by Sepplord

Is hero that bad in the assisttrain, that he can only fill the one peeler slot?

Thu 10 Jan 2019 4:06 PM by Patron

Heros are very good in assisttrain, same as BM and Champs.
But Champs lack in HP, Weaponskill, Stoicism. So i would not play one or would take one if i had the choice between hero or bm and a champ to invite in my group.
Hero > BM > Champs in my personal ranking but i am looking more for a heavy tank as a light tank.

But in the end, play what satisfy you and what fits to your playstyle

Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:22 PM by Bethoc

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 3:25 PM
Is hero that bad in the assisttrain, that he can only fill the one peeler slot?

It's bullshit. The Hero puts out tremendous damage. The BM only overtakes them in DPS during extended fights or with unlucky timing against bladeturn. Often, you can drop a target in two hits, and sometimes one with a strong crit. That unpredictable burst can catch healers off guard as well, which is valuable pressure that may cause them to blow their instant heal in panic.

Note too that dual wield's penetration of block and evade has been reduced on this server, from 50% to 25%.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:54 PM by Tomthabom10

How do LW or CS hero’s compare to champs in dps?

Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:56 PM by jenskamen

Bethoc wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:22 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 3:25 PM
Is hero that bad in the assisttrain, that he can only fill the one peeler slot?

It's bullshit. The Hero puts out tremendous damage. The BM only overtakes them in DPS during extended fights or with unlucky timing against bladeturn. Often, you can drop a target in two hits, and sometimes one with a strong crit. That unpredictable burst can catch healers off guard as well, which is valuable pressure that may cause them to blow their instant heal in panic.

Note too that dual wield's penetration of block and evade has been reduced on this server, from 50% to 25%.

Dont wanna sound stupid here but 1 hit? in a 8v8 scenario? i somehow doubt that but again i could just be stupid but ive never seen a hero crit for 1k+ dmg

Thu 10 Jan 2019 7:15 PM by Eodis

Tomthabom10 wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:54 PM
How do LW or CS hero’s compare to champs in dps?

Not sure since i didn't do the beta of this server but if it recreates correctly what daoc was around 1.65 Hero should have the highest Weapon Skill in Hibernia, so more damage than Champions. And i would pick LW over CS, it allows you to go slash or crush damage with slighty better styles.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 7:45 PM by Bethoc

jenskamen wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:56 PM
Dont wanna sound stupid here but 1 hit? in a 8v8 scenario? i somehow doubt that but again i could just be stupid but ive never seen a hero crit for 1k+ dmg

Yes. Armsmen and warriors are capable of the same. I've been on the giving and receiving end of those crits.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 11:04 PM by Pirhana7

Solo = champ or valewalker

8mam and solo = BM or LW Hero

pure 8man = Spear hero
In 8man fights most your main targets are vulnerable to spear damage like cleric, healer, shaman. After slam spear hero has the highest burst damage with the next 2 attacks using the spear side chain and with crits it has the chance to drop your targets. Even if your target purges spear also has a rear style snare. Back in the day there was nothing scarier to a Mid than seeing a Spearo coming towards them.

Fri 11 Jan 2019 7:11 AM by jenskamen

Bethoc wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 7:45 PM
jenskamen wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:56 PM
Dont wanna sound stupid here but 1 hit? in a 8v8 scenario? i somehow doubt that but again i could just be stupid but ive never seen a hero crit for 1k+ dmg

Yes. Armsmen and warriors are capable of the same. I've been on the giving and receiving end of those crits.

Wow, wasnt aware of that. Good to know

Fri 11 Jan 2019 7:19 AM by Kaziera

jenskamen wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jan 2019 7:11 AM
Bethoc wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 7:45 PM
jenskamen wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 6:56 PM
Dont wanna sound stupid here but 1 hit? in a 8v8 scenario? i somehow doubt that but again i could just be stupid but ive never seen a hero crit for 1k+ dmg

Yes. Armsmen and warriors are capable of the same. I've been on the giving and receiving end of those crits.

Wow, wasnt aware of that. Good to know

There is nothing to know here, its bogus.

Firb hero with slow lw and low qui and no haste for 550ish on cloth. Only arms does better with around 570ish.

2shots can be done with crits, but most good casters run af charge, so expect 4 or 5 hits plus bt.

Fri 11 Jan 2019 9:56 AM by Bethoc

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jan 2019 7:19 AM
There is nothing to know here, its bogus.

Firb hero with slow lw and low qui and no haste for 550ish on cloth. Only arms does better with around 570ish.

2shots can be done with crits, but most good casters run af charge, so expect 4 or 5 hits plus bt.

You're underestimating max damage for both classes. Have you actually played either of them to a higher RR here? I have trouble believing that, if you've never one-shot crit from full HP. My main was a Hero, and while it happened infrequently, it did happen. On targets using physical defense and AF charge, probably not.

Fri 11 Jan 2019 11:00 AM by Kaziera

Testing on rr1 chars as soon as i50 hit.

Dont be fooled by the rr13 or rr6 dmg.

Rr13 may be a different story. But it wont just be the case at the start of the server

Fri 11 Jan 2019 11:26 AM by Bethoc

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jan 2019 11:00 AM
Testing on rr1 chars as soon as i50 hit.

Dont be fooled by the rr13 or rr6 dmg.

Rr13 may be a different story. But it wont just be the case at the start of the server

I was one-shotting at RR5 with some points into Aug Str, nothing extreme. Perfectly doable after a few weeks of casual RvR. RP comes much faster on Phoenix, and you'll find that the Hero's hits are quite potent. Particularly with the slowest spear.