Phoenix Cast Speed Calculator Spreadsheet

Had some free time today and made this little tool for people to see different cast speeds depending on their characters dex and mastery of the art combinations.

IMPORTANT: To use the calculator, you must go to FILE>Make a Copy on the top left of page, This link is for the master copy so you will need to make your own copy to plug in your own values. All requests to edit the master copy will be ignored.

Enjoy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CslgNBWCDhdfEYrCxDyklMosSCPAnAacTEdpbK32esE/edit?usp=sharing

Updated for NNF RA's 11/10/18 - (aug dex gains more at higher levels than old RAs)

Thu 25 Oct 2018 6:41 AM by

Uthred

Sticky

Thu 25 Oct 2018 11:37 AM by Sei

Thanks alot for doing this, so many people believe that aug dex IS trash and only moa should be invested

Thu 25 Oct 2018 4:57 PM by Bobbermand

you need to make a custom condition, or as many as you want.

Thu 25 Oct 2018 5:31 PM by klaggorn

Is 2 second cast time a hard cap? This kinda says there's no benefit to get any casting speed. 3 second spell with 300 dex already breaks the 2 second barrier without any Mota. Basically 250 dex caps you on a 3.0 spell. Seems odd

Thu 25 Oct 2018 5:59 PM by depth

klaggorn wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Oct 2018 5:31 PM
Is 2 second cast time a hard cap? This kinda says there's no benefit to get any casting speed. 3 second spell with 300 dex already breaks the 2 second barrier without any Mota. Basically 250 dex caps you on a 3.0 spell. Seems odd

That was exactly my thought, I'm guessing I'm misunderstanding the chart.

Thu 25 Oct 2018 6:18 PM by Yint

I was told about the 2.0 cap cast speed years back and it never seemed true, because if you cast a 2 second delve spell you can definitely see its faster than 2 seconds with high dex. It is confusing though for sure because probably everyone has been told that there is 2.0 cap speed for spells and 1.5 cap speed for melee at one point...

Now that im thinking about it though, I think their may have been a condition on MoTA RA that it in itself had a cap of only affecting spells up to 2.0 speed, but then dex would bring it faster than 2.0 speed. Then 2.0 delve speeds wouldnt benefit at all from MoTA, but higher speed spells would. Not sure about this one!

(I think on uthgard, the MoTA RA even had that in the description that it would only affect spells up to 2.0 speed and had no effect after that. They could be working with completely diff cast speed formulas though, and could have been a custom uthgard thing.)

Thu 25 Oct 2018 6:20 PM by romulus

klaggorn wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Oct 2018 5:31 PM
Is 2 second cast time a hard cap? This kinda says there's no benefit to get any casting speed. 3 second spell with 300 dex already breaks the 2 second barrier without any Mota. Basically 250 dex caps you on a 3.0 spell. Seems odd

The only hard-cap is 0.4 * delve; the 2s listed hard-cap is a lie.

Fri 2 Nov 2018 12:16 AM by Tyran

This is amazing, thanks a lot !

Fri 9 Nov 2018 8:08 PM by Roto23

I have done this test a dozen times on my healer.
I fully buffed my self with my own bases and then buffed with red dex/qik and red str/con from the jewerly charges. I casted the 3.0 sec cure mez cast and timed it. It took 2.0 seconds to cast. I had no MOArt and no AUG dex. I then repeated the test with MOArt 9 and the cast time went from 2.0 to maybe 1.5.

With the NNF RA's I did this test.
I bought MOArt 4 and I fully buffed my self with my own bases and then buffed with red dex/qik and red str/con from the jewerly charges. I casted the 3.0 sec cure mez cast and timed it. It took 2.0 seconds to cast. I had no AUG dex. I then removed my MOArt 4 and repeated the test the cast time stayed 2.0 seconds

This suggests that with RED spec buffs MOA 4 was useless. The only source of error in my test I think is this...
I was basing cast time on the visual animation I saw when completing the cast. I casted cure mez on myself. But Maybe that is wrong. I have seen at times in RVR where I go to cure mez on a group mate and his blue mezzed name is cleared before I am done casting. So what I am saying is maybe my animation completing is not the same as when a player is cured on the server

Sat 10 Nov 2018 3:22 PM by Yint

Updated for NNF RA's, aug dex gives more dex at higher levels now. from 36 at level 9 to 48. Mota no longer has acuity 5 prereq.

Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:30 PM by defiasbandit

Good work Yint.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 2:13 PM by Jabstar

Hey, as i enjoy making spreadsheets myself, i did one myself on this matter. I won't link mine as to not hijack your post but i found some definite discrepancies between your and my results.

( Spell cast time ) * ( 1 - (( Dex - 60 ) / 600 )) * ( 1 - MotA ) - should be the formula to calculate the new cast speed.

1. You calculate the % first, and from that you calculate the new speed, fe you calculate that the new speed is 48% of the original, and from that 48% you calculate the number compared to the original delve, for example 1.44 sec.
That means you don't consider the cast speed delve of the ability in your original formula, which might skew the result already.

2. Unless i'm mistaken, your formule considers that every level of MotA gives 2%?
Your formula does this for mota: 1-(motalevel * 0.02) - fe: for MotA 6 that gives 1-(5*0.02) = 0.880
My formula does this for mota: 1-(motalevelvalue * 0.01): for MotA 6 that gives 1-(9*0.01) = 0.910

Lets see the difference for a complete example:

Numbers: 350 dex | mota 7 | 2.8s castspeed
In your calculator: (1-((350-60)/600)) * (1 - (7 * 0.02)) = 44.433% (of Delve) = 1.244s castspeed
In my calculator: ( 2.8 ) * ( 1 - (( 350 - 60 ) / 600 )) * ( 1 - (11*0.01)) = 1.2875s castspeed = 45.964% (of Delve)

I could ofcourse be wrong, in which case i hope you tell me why, but if not i hope this helps you and thus everyone else who would use your document.

Have fun!

Edit: Amoz on Discord already told me its because pre nnf MotA gave 2% per level, so that will be the reason. So for your document, i gues the easiest fix is to add a part for MotA like you did for Aug Dex at the bottom that shows the % values per level

Wed 2 Jan 2019 10:39 PM by Yint

Thank you Jabstar, did not know they changed the values on mota.

Updated to new values.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:31 PM by phixion

What do the green and yellow numbers indicate?

Can we assume from this that Aug Dex 9 is slightly better than MoA 9?

Fri 11 Jan 2019 6:55 AM by Sneakers.Matriarch

Good work on the spreadsheet guys!

One pondering though, did they remove the old bracket/break point system MYTHIC employed for cast speed?
I know Uthgard revised that system and made dex and cast speed % effect actual spellcast linearly.

Any information on that?

Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:06 PM by Eodis

Sneakers.Matriarch wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jan 2019 6:55 AM
Good work on the spreadsheet guys!

One pondering though, did they remove the old bracket/break point system MYTHIC employed for cast speed?
I know Uthgard revised that system and made dex and cast speed % effect actual spellcast linearly.

Any information on that?

I would like to know as well, if there are soft caps like live or if it's linear

edit : nvm got an answer from a dev, so yes it's linear, no soft cap to aim for like live

Thu 24 Jan 2019 5:03 AM by Arnfiarnunn

Can we have something similar for melee weapons please?

Mon 4 Feb 2019 2:27 PM by spell

Can Devs confirm the cast speed calculator is accurate? I’m hearing a lot about MoArt not helping much when you have high dex. I haven’t noticed much with MoArt 5 and dex 5 as chart recommends. When I go between blue, yellow and red dex/qui, it’s a massive difference.

Some insight from devs would help at how affective MoArt really is and if it’s more beneficial than dex as chart shows.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:50 PM by Roby5869

The 2.0 sec cap speed is a lie. It means that the fastest cast on the skills is 2.0 not below, but it can be affected by high dex at 0.4*nominal cast speed if you hard cap dex, wich is 380. On this server it's impossible.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 12:56 AM by Gliss

We don't need to theory craft on this issue.

Healers:
How much total Dex?
How much Aug dex?
How much MoA?

Casters:
How much total Dex?
How much Aug Dex?
How much MoA?

Thu 21 Feb 2019 10:19 PM by tylerforeal

I am still confused?

So we can't hit any cap here due to the equipment/stats not climbing as high as Live/TOA+ stuff right? And we are saying it's linear meaning any aug dex or MoA I get above being fully temped/buffed will increase my cast speed incrementally by the amount listed on the chart? And we don't have to worry about wasting points here because there is no cap?

Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:46 PM by Gliss

There has to be some kind of COMMON SENSE cap. A point to say no more DEX!!! or what ever stat it may be.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 2:04 PM by FFpheonix

I take the chart to mean that there's a decrease in return on investment within the Realm Ability system for Cast Speed.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 12:29 PM by Durgrim

Yint wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Oct 2018 11:57 PM
Had some free time today and made this little tool for people to see different cast speeds depending on their characters dex and mastery of the art combinations.

IMPORTANT: To use the calculator, you must go to FILE>Make a Copy on the top left of page, This link is for the master copy so you will need to make your own copy to plug in your own values. All requests to edit the master copy will be ignored.

Enjoy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CslgNBWCDhdfEYrCxDyklMosSCPAnAacTEdpbK32esE/edit?usp=sharing

Updated for NNF RA's 11/10/18 - (aug dex gains more at higher levels than old RAs)

could you do the same for Archery?

Sun 3 Mar 2019 7:52 PM by Cruella

Sorry i dont understand that chart. Would someone be so kind and post/pm me the optimal
ra setup for a saracen cabby and its 3.0 speed aedot please (+15 start/75 in temp/40 buff cleric dex buffs)
I got dex5 moa4 right now

Mon 4 Mar 2019 6:15 PM by tylerforeal

It's saying Dex5/MotA5 is the most bang for your buck- the fastest cast speed for that level of RA's. Dex9/MotA9 almost hits the cast speed cap of .4*delve.

I have also heard from hearsay, no forum posts or sources to cite, that 20 dex is only 1% cast speed though. If that's the case then I disagree with the spreadsheet and MotA would be the only one you'd go for.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 6:56 PM by FFpheonix

tylerforeal wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 6:15 PM
It's saying Dex5/MotA5 is the most bang for your buck- the fastest cast speed for that level of RA's. Dex9/MotA9 almost hits the cast speed cap of .4*delve.

I have also heard from hearsay, no forum posts or sources to cite, that 20 dex is only 1% cast speed though. If that's the case then I disagree with the spreadsheet and MotA would be the only one you'd go for.

I think you're saying the same thing: MotA5 is the best return for investment, and is complemented by AugDex5 for its return on investment. Also I think there is a focus on certain Dex break points when buffed (which I'm not sure how to verify.)

Thu 21 Mar 2019 5:12 PM by carnalito

Good stuff

Mon 1 Apr 2019 6:52 PM by Kazo

Is this the formula used on the server? Can a dev confirm? I have seen another formula else where so I am not sure what is right.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:01 AM by HibRanger

Hallo Everyone,

can some Dev confirm the formula please? It is somehow confusing, that post is pinned and still we have concerns about the right formula.

Thanks in advance

Wed 24 Apr 2019 10:09 AM by keen

The used formula in the excel sheet is the one used on Phoenix. Slightly different to live, but close enough.
https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/cee8846e-cd77-4566-a2dd-95bcdb524d7b

Fri 26 Apr 2019 11:17 AM by HibRanger

Is there a hardcap on cast speed of 1 sek per cast? was on official server and here?

Fri 26 Apr 2019 11:19 AM by keen

There has never been a cast cap like that on live and there is none here. Casts are capped at 0.4*delv cast speed which you will most likely never reach.

Wed 20 Nov 2019 8:52 PM by Valdarr

Outstanding work!

Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:21 PM by Hogfish

I'm too dumb to understand this. Anyone able to tell me what I should be getting on a thane for the 2.4 and 3.0 cast speeds? 10 starting dex on a Norse.

Mon 29 Mar 2021 11:46 AM by Centenario

klaggorn wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Oct 2018 5:31 PM
Is 2 second cast time a hard cap? This kinda says there's no benefit to get any casting speed. 3 second spell with 300 dex already breaks the 2 second barrier without any Mota. Basically 250 dex caps you on a 3.0 spell. Seems odd

romulus wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Oct 2018 6:20 PM
The only hard-cap is 0.4 * delve; the 2s listed hard-cap is a lie.

Roby5869 wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 11:50 PM
The 2.0 sec cap speed is a lie. It means that the fastest cast on the skills is 2.0 not below, but it can be affected by high dex at 0.4*nominal cast speed if you hard cap dex, wich is 380. On this server it's impossible.

keen wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 11:19 AM
There has never been a cast cap like that on live and there is none here. Casts are capped at 0.4*delv cast speed which you will most likely never reach.

[GRABBAG#50]
A: From the spell designer: "Dex affects cast time for everyone. Minimum cast time is 2 seconds, so if you're already hitting that mark you won't see a difference. The difference between 75 Dex and 178 Dex looks like about a 15% reduction, so on a 3 second spell your cast time should have shaved off half a second."

I think we should put in place the hard cap of 2.0sec on all non-buff spells. Only rapid fire archer should be below 2.0 speed.
Dark Age of Magealot needs to stop.
Baseline Stun should be 2.0 max speed.
Maybe then we will have a look at Casted Amnesia vs Instant Amnesia issues.

Also have a look at the interrupt timers: Is it a base 3.0 interrupt timer, is it dependent on the attack speed of the attacker, or on the cast speed of the spell?
[GRABBAG#37]
When you are hit for damage, you are considered to be in combat, and you need three seconds to recover from that. If you don’t see the message when you attempt to cast, either you took no damage or three seconds elapsed.
[GRABBAG#67]
Related note – interrupts are determined by the speed of the bow is fired, meaning that the time of interruptions for each shot will be scaled down proportionally to bow speed. If that made your eyes bleed, here's an example from someone who would know: "I fire a 5.0 spd bow. Because I am buffed and have stat bonuses, I fire that bow at 3.0 seconds. The resulting interrupt on the caster will last 3.0 seconds. If I rapid fire that same bow, I will fire at 1.5 seconds, and the resulting interrupt will last 1.5 seconds."

Mon 3 May 2021 2:06 AM by Hattrick

I saw the melee version of this spreadsheet first, but I have the same question about both. Why are some of the numbers highlighted in green, and on this sheet, yellow as well? I can usually discern the reason behind such things but I'm baffled by these sheets.