Returning player with questions

So I just found out about Phoenix earlier this week and I am pretty excited. I played uthgard for awhile. Got a valewalker to 50 only to realize how cookie cutter the RvR groups were with determination being a must have. Seeing that the devs here added determination to hybrids is a huge plus for me but I am still trying to decide what class to make.

How are hybrids (champions, valewalker s, reavers, paladins) in group and solo play? Am I better off just making a tank/light tank?

Also my main on live back in the day was a Melee ranger. Are those viable at this patch level with the changes to mastery of stealth?

I know in the end it comes down to what is most fun for me, but spending Countless in game hours on uthgard to get my VW to max level and temped only to find out I’ll be slow running accros emain solo for hours left a bad taste in my mouth and I just want to make sure before I make the same mistake.

Any advice/input is appreciated!

Tue 8 Jan 2019 5:32 PM by Gohanssj

Hybrids are pretty viable in tank grps, champions still less so as they don't do anything better than another class. Pallys are a must with end changes but they have increased pally dmg line and spec points so you can go high chants 42 shield 44-50 2h and composite base dmg (obviously if you go 50 2h you need to sacarafice some chants, maybe lose the last af etc but have a play on char plan).

Melee rangers are decent, they still suffer a little from detect hidden but with no see hidden it's nothing like it used to be. No AP or PD this patch level tho so they lose a bit of their defence and you're probably still better making a NS, but if you go like 30 bow and high melee you can be pretty devastating.

As you said, play what's fun, but there will undoubtably still be the elitists who won't touch anything that's not a light tank or caster etc. They should be a minority on this server tho as the set up is much more conducive to casual players.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 5:47 PM by Tomthabom10

I remember champions hitting pretty hard with the debuffs and LW styles. Is this still the case?

Also what do you mean by AP and PD for rangers?

One last question. Are wardens still any good in solo/small man?

Tue 8 Jan 2019 6:32 PM by Gohanssj

champions are still OP 1v1 and to a degree in small man but have no real 8v8 uses. AP is avoid pain that made them absorb x% for 30 seconds and PD was physical defence which was basically the same thing but much smaller amounts and passive

wardens are meh...... useful for everything but not great at anything. No shield spec and obviously no BG or grapple. Good secondary healer, DA and pbt pulses are useful and resist buffs, they're not desired but they're not shunned either. Just fairly solid and can slot into any grp set up quite well (some grps were running 2 bard 2 druid + a warden in beta to devastating effect so they might become a bit more cookie cutter)

Tue 8 Jan 2019 7:10 PM by kmark101

Hybrids are in the best situation on this server ever since the game was released.
They are fun to play and super effective in many cases. Thanks to determination and increased damage/skills, they can fill any role you prefer. Paladins are most powerful imho due to the superhigh amount of spec points.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:27 PM by Tomthabom10

How are minstrels, skalds, reavers and thanes this patch?

Also What spec would you go with as a melee ranger if you made one..? Sounds kind of tempting.. but I’m still leaning towards a visible class.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:32 PM by Takii

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:32 PM
Hybrids are in the best situation on this server ever since the game was released.
They are fun to play and super effective in many cases. Thanks to determination and increased damage/skills, they can fill any role you prefer. Paladins are most powerful imho due to the superhigh amount of spec points.

That's not true for every hybrid. Friars, Wardens and Champions are still pretty underwhelming in RvR.

On paper Friars bring a lot to a group but in practice those tools are difficult to use in RvR or not very effective. Melee healers is a concept that has always clashed with several aspects of how this game is designed. DAoC has a super harsh interrupt system (and you cannot start casting right after a melee attack), and that makes healing in a fight as a Friar quite difficult. You're a below than average melee and a below than average healer and you can't do those things at the same time, so you're just generally below average. The heal procs aren't effective enough to warrant taking a (much more precious than in Hib/Mid) group spot in Alb, and it's pretty much the same for resist buffs.

Champions don't bring anything to a group that most groups won't already have (self buffs, debuffs and limited ranged interrupts).

Wardens without shield spec or their ToA abilities lack a lot of utility. They do a lot of things but none of those things are critical to a group. They suffer from the same problem as Friars where they can't heal and melee (ie. interrupt since their damage is bad) at the same time. ToA allowed Wardens to be much more useful since they could heal while bodyguarding, and shield spec meant they could peel much more easily as well as defend themselves while bodyguarding.

Tomthabom10 wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:27 PM
How are minstrels, skalds, reavers and thanes this patch?

Minstrels are arguably the most useful class in the game in RvR regardless of patch level. Skalds and Reavers are both great with Det. Thanes got a bunch of custom buffs here but I haven't played with those enough to know if they made a big difference.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:49 PM by Gohanssj

mini and skald you will have no issue finding grps in theory (in practice there are thousands of them) reavers are amazing dps etc, very viable but people will probably still have a hard on for stoicism tanks.

Melee ranger spec I'd probably go 44 CD 39 blades 36 stealth 30 bow and 16 path finding and drop stealth and raise bow as you realm rank up, now I'm gonna get shouted down for this so I'm going to pre defend it ^^ most people will say go 40 PF BUUUUUT that gets you 50 af instead of 31, 7.3 DA instead of 2.9 and 180 speed burst instead of 150.

also you get the self str and dex/quick at higher values but as the d/q is lower than charges and the str is + 2 on potions they don't really factor in.

the 180 speed burst is usefull for sure, but 150 should still get you out of most situations in the same way so not a game changer, and 19 af is well, meh. (also the epic chests have a better AF charge on as well could put that in the same category as the d/q.

The big one is the DA buff 4.4 extra dps is obviously pretty usefull, but when it comes down to it having 44 CD and composite 52 blades (best dmg type but obviously you could go pierce and the same still applies) will increase your damage significantly, and more importantly your weapons skill and therefore hit rate.

I wait all of your rebukes

but I genuinely think this spec gives you much higher damage than pathfinding due to buff barrels and chargers negating most of that advantage. Also 30 bow does way more damage than it has any right to as it's the old archery system.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:24 PM by Pedro

And remember when people say that a class is underwhelming in RvR, it's more than likely thinking from the 8man point of view. If you get a good guild/alliance that takes anyone that wants to RvR, the class doesn't matter (well healers are a must of course!)

Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:33 PM by Tomthabom10

I just don’t want to put hours into a class again and just be completely underwhelmed. I get that every class has its role and some might not be “as good” at something as another class but as long as it gets the job done and is fun thats okay with me.

One of my friends is a first time player and is torn between playing warden, pally or reaver. Just trying to get an idea on what is good and all that.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:40 PM by Gohanssj

for a first time player a reaver is probably the best of those 3, only cos twisting is boring (unless he loves a 6 second button bash) and wardens are hard to be effective on and not that satisfying, where as levi spam is never not fun

Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:49 PM by Pedro

Tomthabom10 wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:33 PM
I just don’t want to put hours into a class again and just be completely underwhelmed. I get that every class has its role and some might not be “as good” at something as another class but as long as it gets the job done and is fun thats okay with me.

One of my friends is a first time player and is torn between playing warden, pally or reaver. Just trying to get an idea on what is good and all that.

Warden he will mostly be support with PBT/Dmg Add and buffer. Their melee isn't that good as you are left with little spec points for the weapon. Pally is strong and has good utility with the chants, he'll have to get the timing right and while they are great in PvE, seems that 8mans don't want them (as I said a good guild/alliance will bring the most fun). Reaver is good DPS from the flex weapon and the auras, again 8mans will force them to not use the auras (breaks CC).

So you got a utility, vs a well balanced, vs a DPS.

So see which fits better to play with that you decide to play and roll with it.

Wed 9 Jan 2019 1:58 AM by Dimir

I don't believe all the auras break mez, obviously the damage one does but at least 1 or both of the debuffs do not. Will need to double check that and also see if it's implemented correctly here.

I vote for Reaver!

Thu 10 Jan 2019 2:40 AM by Turtle006

The damage debuff breaks Mez in PvE, don't think it would be different against players.

Fri 11 Jan 2019 3:23 AM by Dimir

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jan 2019 2:40 AM
The damage debuff breaks Mez in PvE, don't think it would be different against players.

Normal stat debuffs are suppose to break mez in PvE but they don't in RvR. It should be the same way but I didn't test it during beta. If they do break player mez I'll make a ticket with evidence.