Earth Wizards, Heat Resist debuff

It's difficult to compare classes across realms as we all know. However I think Albion's Earth Wizard has an advantage that the equivalent casters in Midgard and Hibernia do not. By equivalent caster, I mean classes that will essentially debuff their own damage type and cast baseline nukes in a different specline.

Mana Enchanters debuff heat resist which is at 49 Mana Magic and will use their baseline direct damage spell in Light Magic. This means they can spec 49 Mana and 22 Light.

Runecarving Runemasters debuff cold resist which is at 48 Runecarving Magic and will use their baseline direct damage spell in Darkness Magic. This means they can spec 48 Runecarving and 24 Darkness.

Earth Wizards debuff heat resist which is at 44 in Earth Magic and will use their baseline direct damage spell in Fire Magic. This means they can spec 44 Earth and 31 Fire (if they are willing to forego the extra spells in Earth Magic from 44-49).

I don't think the discrepancy between Enchanters and Runemasters is the problem. The problem is that Earth Wizards can debuff their Fire damage for way less spec points invested in their debuff line thus providing their baseline nukes with far-less variance compared with the casters in Hib and Mid. Wouldn't it be more fair if the Matter and Heat debuffs were reversed thus making the final Matter debuff level 44 and the final Heat Debuff 48?

Sat 29 Dec 2018 3:38 PM by Dimir

While you're technically correct that it's pretty nice for Wizards I wouldn't worry about it because Wizard will:
- still be very underplayed
- still not make any 8v8 groups

So I don't think it will really matter much. Poor wizards have been the worst caster for so long, let them have this

Sat 29 Dec 2018 4:13 PM by Zansobar

Kralin wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Dec 2018 3:29 PM
It's difficult to compare classes across realms as we all know. However I think Albion's Earth Wizard has an advantage that the equivalent casters in Midgard and Hibernia do not. By equivalent caster, I mean classes that will essentially debuff their own damage type and cast baseline nukes in a different specline.

Mana Enchanters debuff heat resist which is at 49 Mana Magic and will use their baseline direct damage spell in Light Magic. This means they can spec 49 Mana and 22 Light.

Runecarving Runemasters debuff cold resist which is at 48 Runecarving Magic and will use their baseline direct damage spell in Darkness Magic. This means they can spec 48 Runecarving and 24 Darkness.

Earth Wizards debuff heat resist which is at 44 in Earth Magic and will use their baseline direct damage spell in Fire Magic. This means they can spec 44 Earth and 31 Fire (if they are willing to forego the extra spells in Earth Magic from 44-49).

I don't think the discrepancy between Enchanters and Runemasters is the problem. The problem is that Earth Wizards can debuff their Fire damage for way less spec points invested in their debuff line thus providing their baseline nukes with far-less variance compared with the casters in Hib and Mid. Wouldn't it be more fair if the Matter and Heat debuffs were reversed thus making the final Matter debuff level 44 and the final Heat Debuff 48?

The fire dd is only 171.8 delve vs the Enchanter and RM dd being 179 delve (since they are level 50 and the wiz fire is only 47). The bigger advantage is the earth wiz debuffs last 15 seconds not the 8 seconds that most debuffs of your own damage type last (an exception to that is the Bonedancer body debuff which also lasts 15 secs).

Sun 30 Dec 2018 3:10 PM by radix

If you want to compare casters, you should replace Wiz with Cab (self-debuff capability and lvl 50 baseline nuke).
And Cabs can spec 46/28, so there is a slight advantage for Alb compared to Ench/RM.

I would prefer to reduce Hib and Mid debuff spells to lvl 46/47 than touching the Wizard. Which will not find a lot of grp spots anyway.

//Edit: For more exotic but competitive setup, you would go for cold debuff anyway (with 1-2 Theurgs)

Sun 30 Dec 2018 8:23 PM by Zansobar

radix wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 3:10 PM
If you want to compare casters, you should replace Wiz with Cab (self-debuff capability and lvl 50 baseline nuke).
And Cabs can spec 46/28, so there is a slight advantage for Alb compared to Ench/RM.

I would prefer to reduce Hib and Mid debuff spells to lvl 46/47 than touching the Wizard. Which will not find a lot of grp spots anyway.

//Edit: For more exotic but competitive setup, you would go for cold debuff anyway (with 1-2 Theurgs)

The Cabalist self debuff only lasts 8 seconds compared to the Wizard self debuff of 15 seconds. But yes you should go cold debuff instead of fire anyway and use the baseline level 50 ice dd.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 8:44 PM by doug

for real?

aint a damn soul gonna be player EARTH wiz. dafuq?

and secondly.. baseline stun. /thread

Thu 3 Jan 2019 11:57 PM by Takii

You might want to take a look at the changes they made to Earth here then because it's basically the best RvR spec...

Fri 4 Jan 2019 12:19 PM by kpax

well we are talking abou the caster realm with imba classes like theu/sorc/caba/necro and sure alb was on caster side so weak, make even the wizard better

Fri 4 Jan 2019 12:48 PM by Takii

Nah wizards without these changes were pretty useless, and also boring to play in RvR.

Mon 7 Jan 2019 9:53 PM by Seigmoraig

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 8:23 PM
radix wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 3:10 PM
If you want to compare casters, you should replace Wiz with Cab (self-debuff capability and lvl 50 baseline nuke).
And Cabs can spec 46/28, so there is a slight advantage for Alb compared to Ench/RM.

I would prefer to reduce Hib and Mid debuff spells to lvl 46/47 than touching the Wizard. Which will not find a lot of grp spots anyway.

//Edit: For more exotic but competitive setup, you would go for cold debuff anyway (with 1-2 Theurgs)

The Cabalist self debuff only lasts 8 seconds compared to the Wizard self debuff of 15 seconds. But yes you should go cold debuff instead of fire anyway and use the baseline level 50 ice dd.

But is it really worth it to use the ice baseline DD ? sure it delves a smidge higher than the fire one but you give up the bonuses on the fire baseline bolt

Mon 7 Jan 2019 11:01 PM by radix

Seigmoraig wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 9:53 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 8:23 PM
radix wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 3:10 PM
If you want to compare casters, you should replace Wiz with Cab (self-debuff capability and lvl 50 baseline nuke).
And Cabs can spec 46/28, so there is a slight advantage for Alb compared to Ench/RM.

I would prefer to reduce Hib and Mid debuff spells to lvl 46/47 than touching the Wizard. Which will not find a lot of grp spots anyway.

//Edit: For more exotic but competitive setup, you would go for cold debuff anyway (with 1-2 Theurgs)

The Cabalist self debuff only lasts 8 seconds compared to the Wizard self debuff of 15 seconds. But yes you should go cold debuff instead of fire anyway and use the baseline level 50 ice dd.

But is it really worth it to use the ice baseline DD ? sure it delves a smidge higher than the fire one but you give up the bonuses on the fire baseline bolt

Depends on the setup. If you play Sorc, Wiz, Theurg - you pick ice for debuff train. If you go for 2 wiz, you pick fire.
I think Sorc, Wiz (earth), Wiz (fire), Arms, Reaver, Minst, 2cleric would make a pretty competitive yet exotic setup.

Mon 7 Jan 2019 11:52 PM by Zansobar

Seigmoraig wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 9:53 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 8:23 PM
radix wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 3:10 PM
If you want to compare casters, you should replace Wiz with Cab (self-debuff capability and lvl 50 baseline nuke).
And Cabs can spec 46/28, so there is a slight advantage for Alb compared to Ench/RM.

I would prefer to reduce Hib and Mid debuff spells to lvl 46/47 than touching the Wizard. Which will not find a lot of grp spots anyway.

//Edit: For more exotic but competitive setup, you would go for cold debuff anyway (with 1-2 Theurgs)

The Cabalist self debuff only lasts 8 seconds compared to the Wizard self debuff of 15 seconds. But yes you should go cold debuff instead of fire anyway and use the baseline level 50 ice dd.

But is it really worth it to use the ice baseline DD ? sure it delves a smidge higher than the fire one but you give up the bonuses on the fire baseline bolt

I was saying go cold for the better delve which equates to about 4.5% more dps and I assumed you would be running a theurgist who can also use baseline cold nuke...the only caster that wouldn't be debuffed for nuking is the sorc. If you go heat, then only the wiz(s) are debuffing for their damage type.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 7:23 PM by Kralin

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 11:52 PM
Seigmoraig wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 9:53 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 8:23 PM
The Cabalist self debuff only lasts 8 seconds compared to the Wizard self debuff of 15 seconds. But yes you should go cold debuff instead of fire anyway and use the baseline level 50 ice dd.

But is it really worth it to use the ice baseline DD ? sure it delves a smidge higher than the fire one but you give up the bonuses on the fire baseline bolt

I was saying go cold for the better delve which equates to about 4.5% more dps and I assumed you would be running a theurgist who can also use baseline cold nuke...the only caster that wouldn't be debuffed for nuking is the sorc. If you go heat, then only the wiz(s) are debuffing for their damage type.

I agree my original post was assuming that fire debuff trains would be the only playstyle but the baseline Ice DD is equally if not a little better since most groups would have a Theurgist. The whole point I had was that Earth Wizards are viable now and I don't see why an Alb caster gorup couldn't make it work. I suspect some future complaints about over-powered Alb caster group setups so I wanted to make sure devs were aware that adjusting the levels of the debuffs might be a possible solution.

Wed 9 Jan 2019 4:22 AM by Isavyr

Kralin wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 7:23 PM
I agree my original post was assuming that fire debuff trains would be the only playstyle but the baseline Ice DD is equally if not a little better since most groups would have a Theurgist. The whole point I had was that Earth Wizards are viable now and I don't see why an Alb caster gorup couldn't make it work. I suspect some future complaints about over-powered Alb caster group setups so I wanted to make sure devs were aware that adjusting the levels of the debuffs might be a possible solution.

Why would Albion run this debuff setup over sorc/cab, which has so much more utility? Between cabs and sorcs, you get demezz, bolt-range mezz, nearsight, disease, stat debuffs, and pets (1 on each!).

Theurgist and wizard offers flaky bolts, nearsight, pets and.. more pets.

If anyone is to complain, it would be about the already existing meta with cabs and sorcs, which wizard buffs obviously don't affect. To conclude, I'm not saying you're wrong--you are correct that its a disparity. However, I don't think it's mathematically significant, and I especially don't think this affects the realm vs realm balance. Furthermore, I disagree with the notion that everything has to be exactly equal--actually, you may notice there are others issues just like this one where the realms aren't complete copies of one another--and why should they be?

Wed 9 Jan 2019 9:08 PM by radix

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jan 2019 4:22 AM
Kralin wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 7:23 PM
I agree my original post was assuming that fire debuff trains would be the only playstyle but the baseline Ice DD is equally if not a little better since most groups would have a Theurgist. The whole point I had was that Earth Wizards are viable now and I don't see why an Alb caster gorup couldn't make it work. I suspect some future complaints about over-powered Alb caster group setups so I wanted to make sure devs were aware that adjusting the levels of the debuffs might be a possible solution.

Why would Albion run this debuff setup over sorc/cab, which has so much more utility? Between cabs and sorcs, you get demezz, bolt-range mezz, nearsight, disease, stat debuffs, and pets (1 on each!).

Theurgist and wizard offers flaky bolts, nearsight, pets and.. more pets.

If anyone is to complain, it would be about the already existing meta with cabs and sorcs, which wizard buffs obviously don't affect. To conclude, I'm not saying you're wrong--you are correct that its a disparity. However, I don't think it's mathematically significant, and I especially don't think this affects the realm vs realm balance. Furthermore, I disagree with the notion that everything has to be exactly equal--actually, you may notice there are others issues just like this one where the realms aren't complete copies of one another--and why should they be?

Because you now have the choice.
Previously, if you wanted to play with 3 casters, you had 3 options:
- Sorc, Cab, Theurg
- Sorc, Sorc, Cab
- Sorc, Cab, Cab

Now you can add 3 more options:
- Sorc, Wiz, Theurg
- Sorc, Wiz, Wiz
- Sorc, Cab, Wiz

All of them have advantages and disadvantages. You can still argue that Sorc, Cab, Theurg has the highest utility, but surely not the highest possible dps.
I like the changes, nevertheless I am sure that we will not see many wizards in roaming groups.