Bainshee, Heretic, Valkyrie - Phoenix Freeshard

Why not add them? Certainly wouldn't mess up balance or anything. You've already added plenty of QOL changes that are for the better so why not add these classes?

I can see some minor itemization problems but that shouldn't really be an issue with spellcrafting available?

Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:56 AM by Kampfar

No

Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:41 AM by Tivook

Kampfar wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:56 AM
No

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:13 AM by Patron

We are classic we stay classic

Plz no

Im done

Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:15 AM by Ceen

No

Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:27 AM by Tivook

Patron wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:13 AM
We are classic we stay classic

Plz no

Im done

A bit hypocritical of you to say that when we have tons of custom changes to just about everything plus ToA races.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:36 AM by Sepplord

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:41 AM
Kampfar wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:56 AM
No

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

kind of ironic, considering the only argument you presented boils down to: "why not"

Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:46 AM by Tivook

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:36 AM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:41 AM
Kampfar wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:56 AM
No

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

kind of ironic, considering the only argument you presented boils down to: "why not"

You must have a reading disability then, it was much more than why not.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:06 AM by Sepplord

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:46 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:36 AM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:41 AM
how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

kind of ironic, considering the only argument you presented boils down to: "why not"

You must have a reading disability then, it was much more than why not.

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:14 AM by Hector

No. This is classic DAoC. Nobody wants them

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:16 AM by Tivook

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:06 AM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:46 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:36 AM
kind of ironic, considering the only argument you presented boils down to: "why not"

You must have a reading disability then, it was much more than why not.

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

Well I made it quite clear that from my perspective it won't mess up balance.

Any sane person would respond as to why it would mess up the balance if they disagree with my statement, just saying no isn't a valid argument nor is copy pasting my response to "no".

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:21 AM by Tivook

Hector wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:14 AM
No. This is classic DAoC. Nobody wants them

Classic daoc? This game is many things but classic daoc is not one of them.

If it is, I must have missed when Half Ogre wizards roamed old Emain Macha, or when Skalds used to pop the Speed of Sound RA. Remember that? remember how all the Skalds way back in classic used to pop SOS when they paniced?

Yeah. No. A valkyrie is nothing more than a weak healer with styles, it's not ToA itemization with new frontier battlefields.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:23 AM by Mac

The staff already has a lot of work to do before live launch and very few days left to do it. Adding classes at this time would add to their workload AND, since those classes weren't in game for Alpha and Beta testing, we don't know how unbalancing they would be.

TLDR: This isn't a good time. Try again later?

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:27 AM by Tivook

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:23 AM
The staff already has a lot of work to do before live launch and very few days left to do it. Adding classes at this time would add to their workload AND, since those classes weren't in game for Alpha and Beta testing, we don't know how unbalancing they would be.

TLDR: This isn't a good time. Try again later?

Dude, this is the suggestion forum.

I'm not trying to get it in the game before launch -- it's a suggestion for the future.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:46 AM by Der_Eisbaer

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:54 AM
Why not add them? Certainly wouldn't mess up balance or anything. You've already added plenty of QOL changes that are for the better so why not add these classes?

I can see some minor itemization problems but that shouldn't really be an issue with spellcrafting available?

No.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 12:13 PM by opossum12

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:16 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:06 AM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:46 AM
You must have a reading disability then, it was much more than why not.

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

Well I made it quite clear that from my perspective it won't mess up balance.

Any sane person would respond as to why it would mess up the balance if they disagree with my statement, just saying no isn't a valid argument nor is copy pasting my response to "no".

Come on... your « argumentation » was to say that they wouldn’t affect balance and.... that’s it. You didn’t give any sort of argument, it’s just a wild guess from your part that I believe is invalid because of the way you think valks are just « weak Healers ».

These classes would definitely affect the game. Example, the Bainshee runs on a body debuff train using a 229 delve baseline body nuke. Couple that with the animist 229 delve bomber, the fact that people have half the hp they have on live and you are one shotting people left and right. That’s a balance issue. The Bainshee has shears, so need to remove them. It would be the only class in the game with pet fear (since there are nobody with ML2 warlords). Single target nearsight is already one of the most powerful spells, and now you want to add an ae focus nearsight?

Valkyries would just make the mid tankers way stronger with their interrupts potential.

As for the heretic, you don’t think that a ae snare combined with their ramp damage would screw everybody over?

Think before you write and just writing « I don’t think it would be a problem because... I just do » is not a valid argument.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 12:43 PM by jg777

I’m not sure adding more classes makes sense from a game perspective. The more variables you add the more complex, and the game is already a complex system with many unique classes that they must try to balance. The original developers brought new classes to the game expansions, often initially very strong if not almost OP’d, to entice players to buy the expansion then after awhile began to nerf, tweak, and/or buff other classes to rebalance things.

Now races, personally I think add them all in. I don’t see much harm in that as a little extra this or that stat is not going to be a game breaker and skill can always overcome any slight advantages possibly acquired from a specific race/class choice (to me). I’d even be open to allowing more race/class possibilities as well, frankly. But adding additional classes that were introduced with other changes in expansions seems much more complex and possibly requires more additional changes to consider to keep things balanced.

Then again one of the great things about DAoC is the sheer variety of races and classes to choose from, so maybe it could be worth the effort to implement them in.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:02 PM by Takii

I'm not sure what dimension you played this game in to think that adding Bainshees and Heretics would not affect balance (not to mention that adding literally any class affects balance). Did you not play this game when they were added? Along with Vampiirs, they completely changed certain aspects of the game.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:07 PM by Sepplord

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:16 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:06 AM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:46 AM
You must have a reading disability then, it was much more than why not.

how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

Well I made it quite clear that from my perspective it won't mess up balance.

Any sane person would respond as to why it would mess up the balance if they disagree with my statement, just saying no isn't a valid argument nor is copy pasting my response to "no".

Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:13 PM by Tivook

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 12:13 PM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:16 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:06 AM
how would i ever be able to win over someone with such an exquisite argumentation technique..

Well I made it quite clear that from my perspective it won't mess up balance.

Any sane person would respond as to why it would mess up the balance if they disagree with my statement, just saying no isn't a valid argument nor is copy pasting my response to "no".

Come on... your « argumentation » was to say that they wouldn’t affect balance and.... that’s it. You didn’t give any sort of argument, it’s just a wild guess from your part that I believe is invalid because of the way you think valks are just « weak Healers ».

These classes would definitely affect the game. Example, the Bainshee runs on a body debuff train using a 229 delve baseline body nuke. Couple that with the animist 229 delve bomber, the fact that people have half the hp they have on live and you are one shotting people left and right. That’s a balance issue. The Bainshee has shears, so need to remove them. It would be the only class in the game with pet fear (since there are nobody with ML2 warlords). Single target nearsight is already one of the most powerful spells, and now you want to add an ae focus nearsight?

Valkyries would just make the mid tankers way stronger with their interrupts potential.

As for the heretic, you don’t think that a ae snare combined with their ramp damage would screw everybody over?

Think before you write and just writing « I don’t think it would be a problem because... I just do » is not a valid argument.

Well other classes have gotten buffs / nerfs, nothing is saying that these classes couldn't receive the same treatment prior to any possible implementation.

It's a suggestion -- not a marriage proposal. You guys don't even want to evaluate the possibility of adding them no matter what. Talking about nearsight, seems like some of you suffer from nearsight irl.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:27 PM by opossum12

What’s the point of adding classes if it’s only to remove half their spells?

You can admit it was a bad suggestion and you can move on, brain farts happen to everybody.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:36 PM by jg777

Do recall that a significant DAoC population actually disliked the added classes from the expansions (and even some of the expansions themselves, like ToA). Some liked the more or less original gameplay with the classes as it was. You’ll see that population represented here. It’s not necessarily near sight by them so much as their game vision different from your own. We’re a rather old community playing an old game that has had many changes and servers so players will vary on what they think is the best DAoC experience. Some rather not add more classes than is and focus on a good balance with the existing ones. Possibly a few might even say no in an attempt to save the developers from more work!

Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:06 PM by Sepplord

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:13 PM
It's a suggestion -- not a marriage proposal. You guys don't even want to evaluate the possibility of adding them no matter what. Talking about nearsight, seems like some of you suffer from nearsight irl.

Dude, seriously, kick it down a notch. YOU made a proposal with zero effort to explain why you think it would be a good idea. Not a single reason why it should be done. But you expect your audience to reply with elaborate explanations and get insulting and demeaning when you don't get the answers you wanted.

You have still failed to provide reasons why it should be done.
C'mon, i am against it, and even I can think of 3 PRO-reasons from the top of my head.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:37 PM by Tivook

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:06 PM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:13 PM
It's a suggestion -- not a marriage proposal. You guys don't even want to evaluate the possibility of adding them no matter what. Talking about nearsight, seems like some of you suffer from nearsight irl.

Dude, seriously, kick it down a notch. YOU made a proposal with zero effort to explain why you think it would be a good idea. Not a single reason why it should be done. But you expect your audience to reply with elaborate explanations and get insulting and demeaning when you don't get the answers you wanted.

You have still failed to provide reasons why it should be done.
C'mon, i am against it, and even I can think of 3 PRO-reasons from the top of my head.

You could have chosen any flavour, yet you choose to be salty.

Everyone on the Uthgard forums had the same opinion you have -- no to everything, classic is classic. Yet here we are and Uthgard is failing.

It really makes me wonder what you're doing here since you're so pro full classic. Why play on a heavily modified server when you have Uthgard up and running?

A suggestion doesn't need fifty pages of arguments to support my opinion.
The devs most likely created this sub section to get input on what the next step should be. Apart from bugfixes and such I'd say there isn't much they actually can add or is there?

Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:51 PM by Sepplord

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:37 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:06 PM
Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 1:13 PM
It's a suggestion -- not a marriage proposal. You guys don't even want to evaluate the possibility of adding them no matter what. Talking about nearsight, seems like some of you suffer from nearsight irl.

Dude, seriously, kick it down a notch. YOU made a proposal with zero effort to explain why you think it would be a good idea. Not a single reason why it should be done. But you expect your audience to reply with elaborate explanations and get insulting and demeaning when you don't get the answers you wanted.

You have still failed to provide reasons why it should be done.
C'mon, i am against it, and even I can think of 3 PRO-reasons from the top of my head.

You could have chosen any flavour, yet you choose to be salty.

Everyone on the Uthgard forums had the same opinion you have -- no to everything, classic is classic. Yet here we are and Uthgard is failing.

It really makes me wonder what you're doing here since you're so pro full classic. Why play on a heavily modified server when you have Uthgard up and running?

A suggestion doesn't need fifty pages of arguments to support my opinion.
The devs most likely created this sub section to get input on what the next step should be. Apart from bugfixes and such I'd say there isn't much they actually can add or is there?

Okay, whatever dude, for sure I am the salty one in this thread.
I tried three times to reason with you, and asked for a single (not a list of) reasons you want them implemented. You keep ignoring and evading just naming asingle thing, and just make up stuff that i never claimed....
where did you get the notion that i am a classic fanatic btw? I LOVE most of the modifications.

But wait, before you answer, I am quite sure you are just trying to troll now and are trying "git sum of those classic nerds raging". So you can save your breath, I won't reply another time here

Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:57 PM by Takii

Yeah clearly Uthgard's biggest problem was the lack of Bainshees and Heretics...

Tue 8 Jan 2019 3:00 PM by Pedro

Honestly speaking, those three classes (to me) were put together in a rush without much testing. I still remember the Bainshees screaming through doors and walls, the Heretic channeled attack continuing to hit after an enemy goes out of sight, and the Valky was a goddess with good dmg, shield and heals.

The one good thing I would see of having those classes is bringing some buff/heal balance as the Heretic would bring a 3rd buffer to Alb, the Valk a 3rd healer to Mid, since Hibs have 3 buff/healers (druid, bard, warden).

But I can see why they won't be added for a while, as mentioned before, too buggy to start fixing and tweaking, and some of their abilities do not exist in this version of Phoenix (like the buff shears from the Valk and Bainshee, or the monster rez from Heretic).

Also look at it as something to look forward in the future, something that can be added a year or so down the road to add spice to things. At this moment we're all happy and exited just to play our old DAoC with the current QoL changes.

Let's enjoy what we have and look forward to years of fun!

Tue 8 Jan 2019 3:15 PM by Gohanssj

yeah 100% agree with pedro, I wouldn't mind seeing them in a year to spice it up a bit, heretic is a great counter to mid tank train etc. But with the current set up those classes are way to OP (no counter to heretic snare as no new style charge etc.) They could be moulded to fit, but it would take time and would be low on the current list of priorities. But for sure, I'd like to see them introduced down the line.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 3:40 PM by Kaosfury

my opinion = no

Tue 8 Jan 2019 3:45 PM by Tivook

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 3:15 PM
yeah 100% agree with pedro, I wouldn't mind seeing them in a year to spice it up a bit, heretic is a great counter to mid tank train etc. But with the current set up those classes are way to OP (no counter to heretic snare as no new style charge etc.) They could be moulded to fit, but it would take time and would be low on the current list of priorities. But for sure, I'd like to see them introduced down the line.

Yeah that sounds great to me.

And that is what my suggestion was, a mere suggestion of what could happen way way down the road once the server is up and running.

Just by looking at the QOL list of changes it's quite clear that the Phoenix devs are not stupid and have a good understanding of the game mechanics and what needs to be tuned for good gameplay. I have no doubt at all they could implement these classes way down the road in a balanced manner befitting Phoenix should they want to do that.

I'm more than fine with the game as it is and I'm stoked to get playing asap.

Wed 9 Jan 2019 5:19 PM by chryso

Valkyrie doesn't seem too bad but the others seem too powerful.

Wed 9 Jan 2019 10:27 PM by rok1

chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jan 2019 5:19 PM
Valkyrie doesn't seem too bad but the others seem too powerful.

The spear styles are what hooked me from a Mid perspective.. well that and heals and offensive procs... yes I will miss playing a Valk, prob my most fav class behind Pac Healer or Warden. I'm one of those types who likes to melee but then have a little extra to help heals from time to time. When Mythic introduced the Valk I felt Mid finally had their own version of Friar or Warden.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 3:31 AM by orth

No thanks.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 2:21 PM by inoeth

rok1 wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jan 2019 10:27 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jan 2019 5:19 PM
Valkyrie doesn't seem too bad but the others seem too powerful.

The spear styles are what hooked me from a Mid perspective.. well that and heals and offensive procs... yes I will miss playing a Valk, prob my most fav class behind Pac Healer or Warden. I'm one of those types who likes to melee but then have a little extra to help heals from time to time. When Mythic introduced the Valk I felt Mid finally had their own version of Friar or Warden.

actually when valk was first introduced it was really crappy, they added the styleprocs at a later patch

Thu 10 Jan 2019 7:02 PM by Gaspard

Tivook wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 8:54 AM
Why not add them? Certainly wouldn't mess up balance or anything. You've already added plenty of QOL changes that are for the better so why not add these classes?

I can see some minor itemization problems but that shouldn't really be an issue with spellcrafting available?

Nope nope nope nope

Thu 10 Jan 2019 7:32 PM by Nydig

Yeah call me crazy, but valks were garbage on release from what i remember. I dont even think they had the rejuv line did they? Or if they did it was just casted heals no hots or instant heal.

Warlocks and vamps were the worst when it came too op but things like monster res from tics and bains aoe with 0 drop off dmg from range as well as going through walls and floors wasnt much fun to deal with either.

If they ever did implement these classes i feel like they would need to be changed or nerfed so much to even fit in with the old abilities and classes that it wouldnt be worth the effort.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 8:19 PM by Bethoc

So long as warlocks and vampyrs are excluded, I wouldn't actually mind this. I don't recall the bainshee, heretic, or valkyrie being especially overpowered, though my main concern would be broken abilities or unexpected interactions that do result in a busted amount of power with no obvious solution. The devs would need to bring the community on board for extensive testing on a private branch, to avoid unleashing an accidental monster that can't later be removed.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 7:47 AM by Truen

Hector wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:14 AM
No. This is classic DAoC. Nobody wants them

I certainly do. I love Heretics.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 10:36 AM by Luluko

Truen wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 7:47 AM
Hector wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 11:14 AM
No. This is classic DAoC. Nobody wants them

I certainly do. I love Heretics.

I also do but if that means also having valkyries I rather pass and I play mid... most of the cata classes are just too hard to balance with their abilities.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 10:46 AM by Halma

Why is this thread on fire? Burning thread corpses here?
Leave it be, devs will not casually throw new classes into the pool now.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 10:50 AM by rubaduck

Give hibs bainshee, and you won't see any alb/mid zerg any more...

No, do not add any of the cata classes please.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 4:56 PM by Roks

NO.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 5:29 PM by Quik

Halma wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 10:46 AM
Why is this thread on fire? Burning thread corpses here?
Leave it be, devs will not casually throw new classes into the pool now.

Actually the last I saw from Uthred was that these newer classes wouldn't be added at this time.

There was nothing saying they may not add them later.

My vote is yes plz, more variety of classes is always good.

If they do hopefully they add the decent version of the Valk.

Mon 18 Feb 2019 3:58 PM by mimdars

Pretty sure live has everything your looking for if your not happy with class options here. Yall have fun now!

😂

Sat 23 Feb 2019 4:17 PM by Quik

mimdars wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 3:58 PM
Pretty sure live has everything your looking for if your not happy with class options here. Yall have fun now!

😂

Pretty sure this server is adding tons of things for people

This server is different from anything else out there including live and the dev's have been very smart in what they do.

If they feel newer classes would help, they will, otherwise they won't. =)

Just saying that Uthred did say newer classes just weren't in the cards for now but were not discounted for later.

I happen to read the forums a lto and stay on top of things like this