Nightshades/Infil's/Shadowblades

Hey Staff,

I just had a quick question in regards to the sneaks classes. According to your charplanner you guys have on your page it allows both Infil's(dual wield) and shadowblades(left axe) to have the option to go a dual wield spec that has a 7sec evade stun in it. Nightshade don't get a 7sec evade stun chain in the celtic dual spec line only a 4 or 5 second on in blades or pierce and if they want a 7sec one he has to land his perf chain if he goes that spec. Was this intended to be this way?

Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:53 PM by florin

They also get a 4 sec side stun and slash resistant armor

Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:56 PM by taylorj91

Meh don't care too much about the 4sec side stun when dancing will hurt due to the endurance cost of old daoc.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 4:16 AM by Turtle006

Sidestyles are pretty much anytime styles here. Side arcs are huge.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 8:26 AM by Cadebrennus

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 4:16 AM
Sidestyles are pretty much anytime styles here. Side arcs are huge.

If you so much as breathe on your strafe key or even look at it you will get the miss due to strafing message in your combat log. Positionals are much harder on Phoenix than on Uth or Live

Thu 3 Jan 2019 8:51 AM by Ceen

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 8:26 AM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 4:16 AM
Sidestyles are pretty much anytime styles here. Side arcs are huge.

If you so much as breathe on your strafe key or even look at it you will get the miss due to strafing message in your combat log. Positionals are much harder on Phoenix than on Uth or Live

You dont know how to use positionals thats all.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 9:23 AM by Cadebrennus

Ceen wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 8:51 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 8:26 AM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 4:16 AM
Sidestyles are pretty much anytime styles here. Side arcs are huge.

If you so much as breathe on your strafe key or even look at it you will get the miss due to strafing message in your combat log. Positionals are much harder on Phoenix than on Uth or Live
You dont know how to use positionals thats all.

Link to vids are in my signature. That is all.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 2:42 PM by taylorj91

@Cadebrennus I'm not worried about landing the side stun it's easy that's what I did constantly on Live, but your videos also show you still have the chance to use your 7sec stun in celtic dual if you wanted too. Now comparing old school too live is a little harder because good players keep you slowed so it forces you to sprint and try and get side stuns and old school is very endo hungry which is nice so using sprint will be a little bit more of a pain vs a good player. But the only reason I started this was due to Dual wield for alb getting updated for a 7sec evade stun and celtic dual didn't the only thing Hib got was a 4sec evade stun off blades which i wouldn't use I'd focus more on the side stun, but a 7sec stun is a game changer in fights.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 5:24 PM by Cadebrennus

taylorj91 wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jan 2019 2:42 PM
@Cadebrennus I'm not worried about landing the side stun it's easy that's what I did constantly on Live, but your videos also show you still have the chance to use your 7sec stun in celtic dual if you wanted too. Now comparing old school too live is a little harder because good players keep you slowed so it forces you to sprint and try and get side stuns and old school is very endo hungry which is nice so using sprint will be a little bit more of a pain vs a good player. But the only reason I started this was due to Dual wield for alb getting updated for a 7sec evade stun and celtic dual didn't the only thing Hib got was a 4sec evade stun off blades which i wouldn't use I'd focus more on the side stun, but a 7sec stun is a game changer in fights.

It sucks that Hib doesn't have a 7 second stun in Blades but Blades is one of the best (if not the best) base lines in the game. The level 50 style in Blades has the highest Growth Rate of any base style line and Blades also has an anytime ASR (Attack Speed Reduction) chain. There are trade-offs so just accept it and move on.

As someone who has been Blades spec since 2002 I was fine with Blades and the other lines NOT having evade stuns just like on Uthgard. I knew that if the Phoenix staff did change it (which they did) it would lead to complaints and people trying to get everything changed.

I think it would have been more balanced not to have changed the lines to how they are now, in order to force players into decisions and sacrifices.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 6:59 PM by taylorj91

You're still missing the point haha. Updating the other 2 sneak lines and not the 3rd is the purpose of this. If they were going to change them why not change them all or leave it how it was originally.

Fri 4 Jan 2019 12:56 AM by Gohanssj

SBs always had a 7 second evade follow on stun, that's not an update. The inf one is but of people choose high DW instead of 50 thrust then they get a 2 second lower stun that they have to chain (df is 9 seconds and straight off evade). So really no boost at all. Move along

Fri 4 Jan 2019 3:32 PM by taylorj91

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jan 2019 12:56 AM
SBs always had a 7 second evade follow on stun, that's not an update. The inf one is but of people choose high DW instead of 50 thrust then they get a 2 second lower stun that they have to chain (df is 9 seconds and straight off evade). So really no boost at all. Move along

Correct SB has, but Infil hasn't(which doesn't matter most infs run high thrust) and yet they update them and not the Nightshade except for a 5sec stun in pierce still. The update is to have 2 different play styles for them that are more effective. If you're not going to update all don't update any simple as that. Now adding the move along comment is just childish if you can't debate mate

Fri 4 Jan 2019 3:37 PM by Gohanssj

because your argument is redundant, they haven't added anything, just changed the parry/block styles to evade, the same as live did.

To get a 7 second off chain evade stun an inf needs to go 44 DW

that is a monumental waste of spec points for a stun that is 2 seconds longer than the 15 thrust off evade and if you're going to invest you might as well go 50 thrust for 9 sec off evade.

This makes the 44 style redundant so there is literally no change or advantage in terms of stun styles other than both hib and alb now have slash stuns, which they were long over due

Fri 4 Jan 2019 3:55 PM by taylorj91

Actually it's not because if they are changing that for Infil from parry to evade they should of done the same for the Celtic Dual line as well if they were worried about making it like live...you may want to go look at your live celtic dual styles there

I don't understand where you're getting confused at all mate.

Twin Star II
(Tornado)
Level
44
To Hit Bonus
+10%
Defense Bonus
0%
Endurance
10%
Damage - Bonus per Level
+3
Damage - Base at Level: 0
0
Damage - Base at Level: 44
132
Damage - Max @ RR14 +11 Item
222
Target cannot move or take any other action for 7 sec.

Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:14 PM by Gohanssj

I'm not the confused one,

NS has access to twin star on the evade chain, it just doesn't have stun on it at the base patch level they are using.
I'll repeat it for you ALL THEY HAVE DONE IS CHANGE BLOCK/PARRY STYLES TO EVADE!

They haven't added or taken stuns from any lines. BMs don't get stuns and mercs do off parry, but that doesn't effect you so you're not bringing it up.

As already stated twice, there is no additional advantage for SB or inf from the changes, the balance is exactly the same. Infs and NS now have a slash stun, the DW stun is worse then useless for an inf.

If NS were now given a stun, added in specifically for them, that would be a balance change. I don't understand how you don't get that

Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:16 PM by taylorj91

What you're not getting if you're not going to balance the 3 spec lines don't touch any of them simple as that. For instance that update was to balance the 3 dual wield lines not for them to pick which to put in at their liking which inturn makes it less balanced mate

Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:25 PM by Gohanssj

prove it.

show me an example where it is now imbalanced?

In the DW lines:

SB had stun before still have stun,

Inf didn't have stun before but will never spec for 44 DW for a stun that is 1 second longer than bear tooth and 2 less than dragonfang

NS never had stun, still won't have stun

so in table form for your minute mind:

.......................Inf..............NS...............SB
Had stun........no..............no..............yes
Will use stun..no..............n/a.............yes
changed?........no..............no...............no

Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:26 PM by Afuldan

NS get an insta DD and a castable DD, doesn’t that make the other two stealthers weaker in conparison?

Sat 5 Jan 2019 12:33 AM by Loko

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:26 PM
NS get an insta DD and a castable DD, doesn’t that make the other two stealthers weaker in conparison?

And SB can use 2h and Inf gets more spec points. This is not new.

Sat 5 Jan 2019 1:09 AM by Afuldan

Loko wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Jan 2019 12:33 AM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:26 PM
NS get an insta DD and a castable DD, doesn’t that make the other two stealthers weaker in conparison?

And SB can use 2h and Inf gets more spec points. This is not new.

I am confused. I fail to see what balance has been changed. I thought the only stuns stealthers used were perf chain, and side style for SB if fight was going badly? Or am I not grasping the changes made?

Sat 5 Jan 2019 9:53 AM by inoeth

lool 44 DW is not worth specing? i think it is superior over 50 thrust! especially if you are going 50DW for the massive front style + higher chance to hit with offhand + 7 sec stun.

50 thrust is a huge waste of points when you only have to spec 35 with rr5.

speaking of stuns, yes NS is in a disadvantage here but in that doesnt make the ns any weak. in fact the ns is still very very strong and imo a 7-9 sec stun would make the ns much too strong.

imo it would be good to reduce ALL stuns by 2 secs or cap them at 5 secs.

Sun 6 Jan 2019 11:52 PM by Gohanssj

You need 52 composite skills 37 thrust at rr5. But you get a 6 second evade stun at 15 thrust, so even if you didn't want DF why would you go 44 DW for 1 extra second that you have to land 2 hits to get anyway?

And who goes 50 DW on an inf? CS growth rates are the highest in game already

Also even tho you use cs styles, your WS is determined by your base skill spec, so while 50 thrust isn't ideal, it does boost your weaponskill, just not the damage after soft cap is hit

Mon 7 Jan 2019 12:38 AM by florin

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jan 2019 11:52 PM
You need 52 composite skills 37 thrust at rr5. But you get a 6 second evade stun at 15 thrust, so even if you didn't want DF why would you go 44 DW for 1 extra second that you have to land 2 hits to get anyway?

And who goes 50 DW on an inf? CS growth rates are the highest in game already

Also even tho you use cs styles, your WS is determined by your base skill spec, so while 50 thrust isn't ideal, it does boost your weaponskill, just not the damage after soft cap is hit

50 DW is the new inf - there are hidden weaponskills for DW and CS

Mon 7 Jan 2019 1:02 AM by Gohanssj

I remember infilmerc being a thing back in the day but you'd have to drop too much in other lines to make it worth while pre rr6 or so. Dunno, I've always liked high cs evade chain for disgusting damage. But either way the 7 second stun isn't the reason for going that spec, I'd still use the 6 second 1 hit than risk missing the second hit for the sake of 1 second

Mon 7 Jan 2019 1:07 AM by florin

Agreed!

something like this can be interesting

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Infiltrator&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s13=35&s31=35&s33=34&s47=35&s55=50

Mon 7 Jan 2019 10:16 AM by inoeth

This is what i am talking about although i would go slash for better dmg.

Why you need 52 composite?
Btw cs does not have a hidden ws, there your main weapon skill counts.
But for dw there is a hidden ws, also this is why 50 dw is very strong because you combine high ws with high offhand to hit chance and also have very good styles in one line!

Mon 7 Jan 2019 10:50 AM by Gohanssj

Not sure why it's 52, was always 51 but they confirmed soft cap was 52 composite during beta

Mon 7 Jan 2019 11:05 AM by Silentblade

52 comp weapon is a phoenix custom change dont know why its 52. i tested it also during beta and got confirmed by the gm.

yes please more slash infis xD

Mon 7 Jan 2019 11:25 AM by florin

Always been 52, testing was wrong. 51 for variance, 52 for damage.

Slash is nice vs sbs but thrust desrtroys shades faster.Plus the utility of a 6s stun early and df later. I can see why silent jumped to a shade but that emain run meh.

Mon 7 Jan 2019 12:07 PM by florin

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 10:16 AM
This is what i am talking about although i would go slash for better dmg.

Why you need 52 composite?
Btw cs does not have a hidden ws, there your main weapon skill counts.
But for dw there is a hidden ws, also this is why 50 dw is very strong because you combine high ws with high offhand to hit chance and also have very good styles in one line!

According to schaf cs is and advanced line just like dw

Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:18 AM by inoeth

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 12:07 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jan 2019 10:16 AM
This is what i am talking about although i would go slash for better dmg.

Why you need 52 composite?
Btw cs does not have a hidden ws, there your main weapon skill counts.
But for dw there is a hidden ws, also this is why 50 dw is very strong because you combine high ws with high offhand to hit chance and also have very good styles in one line!

According to schaf cs is and advanced line just like dw

okay interesting!