Unbalanced custom changes ? - Phoenix Freeshard

First of whole i am rly excited about a server who focus definetly on the comunity and is very open minded to all kind of thoughts.

Imo the idea of making a combination of old and new ras is a great solution to make way more setups possible on each realm was maybe the best idea ever, even better then live !

What i dont get is why the gms decide to weaken the mid tanks (f.e. svg) and strengthen the alb like pala/wizard/friar for example that much. And on the other side nothing happens for classes like Vw/Thane etc. . Like i sayed on uthgard i will repeat it here too. Daoc is balanced in the original way. I played all 3 realms on beta 8v8 . I had no feeling that alb/hib or mid was in any way disadvanced before those nerfs or upgrades. And i think by implementing a combination of new and old ra even balanced the realms even more if i remeber on uthgard the ns advance of hibs with grp purge, or sos /bof of albs or ichor/pr of mids.

But we had the chance to test even rr13 chars, which was a great option to see whats max possible on dmg and utility. And if i have to think all the chars like i tested like champ/reaver etc...it felt like a joke what a rr13 svg made on dmg as an example.

I am just concerned that this can effect on long term the same way like it happened on uthgard. And i honestly want this server succeed cause i think first time there are gms who rly want the comunity enjoy a game.

At least i hope that the gms will overlook all the changes and reflect it.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 8:52 AM by Kaziera

Well alb got a nerf too by making them have a paladin in grp. One less variable slot.

I dont think daoc was balanced in a Original way. It always had classes that were less played. Imo they are on a good path, but with complex systems like the class balance here, you turn one screw and on the other end of the machine a part that nobody thought of becomes lose. It doesnt mean that the last changes were bad, it means that you need to keep working at it.

And never forget, they started with 1.65 as a baseline, not as a final goal. 1.65 was a good baseline, but it also was heavily flawed.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 8:55 AM by Ceen

Nothing happend to Thanes except, increase of their damage table, reducing cast time, adding a debuff proc, additional RAs...
It's always the same the GMs can do what ever they want people will not listen and only see what they want to see and stick to their QQ.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:02 AM by Kaziera

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 8:55 AM
Nothing happend to Thanes except, increase of their damage table, reducing cast time, adding a debuff proc, additional RAs...
It's always the same the GMs can do what ever they want people will not listen and only see what they want to see and stick to their QQ.

Now calling other ppls well articulated worries and suggestions QQ is the best way to deal with them. Way to go bud, way to go.

The sad thing is, you have actually a point. They did change the thane. But you throw it all out the window by beeing condescending and calling it QQ.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:10 AM by Frigzy

How did svges become weaker?

In comparison to dual wielders they even got a relative buff to defense penetration.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:26 AM by

Uthred

kpax wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 6:06 AM
And on the other side nothing happens for classes like Vw/Thane etc.

Thane
– Can purchase Determination
– Single-target DD cast time reduced. Level 48 spell has 2.4 second base cast-time.
– Single-target DD delve increased. Level 48 spell has 184 DD delve.
– AoE DD cast time reduced from 4 to 3 seconds.
– Mana cost of all offensive spells decreased by 33%.
– Added self-buff proccable energy debuff that activates in melee. The level 47 buff procs a 24% energy debuff, and lasts 15 seconds.
– Can additionally purchase Mastery of Concentration, Wrath of Champions

http://playphoenix.wiki/category/qol/classchanges/

Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:44 AM by Ceen

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:02 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 8:55 AM
Nothing happend to Thanes except, increase of their damage table, reducing cast time, adding a debuff proc, additional RAs...
It's always the same the GMs can do what ever they want people will not listen and only see what they want to see and stick to their QQ.

Now calling other ppls well articulated worries and suggestions QQ is the best way to deal with them. Way to go bud, way to go.

The sad thing is, you have actually a point. They did change the thane. But you throw it all out the window by beeing condescending and calling it QQ.

It's more about this part:

kpax wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 6:06 AM
And on the other side nothing happens for classes like Vw/Thane etc.

it's a completely false statement as I said before and hence its just random QQ.

Sure Thane could use some love, but telling everyone thane got no changes at all and hence falls behind is missleading.

Wed 2 Jan 2019 1:07 PM by relvinian

What about the smite cleric? Where is the love?

Wed 2 Jan 2019 1:31 PM by keen

Smite cleric would be super old school

Wed 2 Jan 2019 3:57 PM by Drolkrad

I too would love to see smite cleric become viable. Devs/GM's have been doing a wonderful job, thanks so much for your time and effort.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 9:06 AM by Kaziera

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:44 AM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 9:02 AM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 8:55 AM
Nothing happend to Thanes except, increase of their damage table, reducing cast time, adding a debuff proc, additional RAs...
It's always the same the GMs can do what ever they want people will not listen and only see what they want to see and stick to their QQ.

Now calling other ppls well articulated worries and suggestions QQ is the best way to deal with them. Way to go bud, way to go.

The sad thing is, you have actually a point. They did change the thane. But you throw it all out the window by beeing condescending and calling it QQ.
It's more about this part:
kpax wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jan 2019 6:06 AM
And on the other side nothing happens for classes like Vw/Thane etc.

it's a completely false statement as I said before and hence its just random QQ.

Sure Thane could use some love, but telling everyone thane got no changes at all and hence falls behind is missleading.

So you agree with the statement that thane needs love, but instead of agreeing with the op on the underlying message you scream BS BS BS.

Wow. Just wow.

Thu 3 Jan 2019 2:39 PM by Dimir

I had the same reaction, as soon as I saw the completely incorrect statement I just stopped reading. When someone tells you 2 + 2 doesn't equal 4 you don't wanna hear the rest of their theorem.

Fri 4 Jan 2019 12:09 PM by kpax

well i didnt mean there were no changes at all. But i mean significant realistic rvr effecting changes, which would effect them be more suitable for rvr groups. And i dont say they are completly useless. But if i consider realistic skill/dmg on reaver in comparison to Vw/Thane for example, there is definetly a imbalance on dmg.

Reaver > Vw > Thane

And thats why later patches reaver got nerfed and Vw/Thane got upgraded. And since gms consider significant changes like done on wizard, why not mention this kind of inbalance.

Honestly i wont even play one of those 3 chars. Everyone knows i am a caster nerd

.

I just recognized it while testing all classes on all 3 realms. I just want fair realm balance thats all.

Fri 4 Jan 2019 1:39 PM by opossum12

Thanes don’t need love, the update they got in beta made them very decent.

They aren’t top notch in 8v8 because the mid caster train is cold, so the energy doesn’t synergyze well. However, in a mid tanker, they can make a great back line peeler/pet clearer and also a good front line interrupt. They have the tools to be viable.

They are beasts in solo/smallman, stealthers/archers don’t make it out of slam, casters are easy kills (unless they have nearsight), tanks are good fights.

The initial post where it is asked that Thane need love is obviously from someone that hasn’t played it in beta.

Fri 4 Jan 2019 2:03 PM by Gohanssj

I don't think having to run a pally is that much of a nerf for alb, it would have been before the changes but with new spec points and dmg line a 2handed pally with slam isn't far off an armsman, plus it gives AF DA and end to grp, and shitty heals I guess but that's mostly just for PVE. Yes having perma end and a pole arms made a stronger grp, but it's not like you're having to run a useless char in it's place. Hib are worse for it cos bards have to twist again and bards hate to twist ^^

Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:00 PM by Sepplord

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jan 2019 2:03 PM
I don't think having to run a pally is that much of a nerf for alb, it would have been before the changes but with new spec points and dmg line a 2handed pally with slam isn't far off an armsman, plus it gives AF DA and end to grp, and shitty heals I guess but that's mostly just for PVE. Yes having perma end and a pole arms made a stronger grp, but it's not like you're having to run a useless char in it's place. Hib are worse for it cos bards have to twist again and bards hate to twist ^^

oh no, poor bards /s

and many groups run two bards anyways as their utility is just so good, no twisting needed

Fri 4 Jan 2019 4:18 PM by Gohanssj

yeah true, just not always enough bards to go around

I just don't think it's a huge deal, mid lose some buffs, hibs have a bit more work to do, albs lose a bit of dps