Archery Spec - Phoenix Freeshard

I posted this in the PvE forum accidentally! Here's the original thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3132

Short and sweet of it is this: Rangers and Hunters can spec melee and be fine. Archer damage on a per-shot basis is fine. I am calling for neither a buff to Archer Archetypes nor to Archery, specifically.

However, it is abundantly clear that no one is speccing high archery on Rangers or Hunters. The reason is, quite simply, it is just too easy to avoid damage via archery AND there is no advantage to speccing higher in the archery lines.

Please give Rangers and Hunters (and even Scouts!) a reason to spec more highly in Archery.

Mon 17 Dec 2018 2:26 PM by relvinian

High magic spec is giving a reduction in mana for casters.

How about high archery spec giving free arrow recovery ra?

Or maybe reducing the chance to destealth by a small amount? from crit shot?

Mon 17 Dec 2018 5:11 PM by Turtle006

relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 2:26 PM
High magic spec is giving a reduction in mana for casters.

How about high archery spec giving free arrow recovery ra?

Or maybe reducing the chance to destealth by a small amount? from crit shot?

Isn't the second one already in?

Mon 17 Dec 2018 6:41 PM by Dominus

Yes...

“Archer classes now have a chance of becoming visible when they nock their arrow. The way it worked up until now is that archers would always be invisible if they were using stealth until they fired their bow. Now, a skill check is performed when they “nock” their arrow. If they fail the check, they become visible. The chance to become visible is based on their specialization in Stealth. On normal (i.e. NOT critical shots), if they are 50% specc’ed in stealth, they will have a 50% chance of becoming visible; if they are 100% specc’ed, they will have a 100% chance of remaining hidden. On Critical Shots, the chance is the same as a normal shot, minus 20% – so an archer max specced in stealth will have an 80% of remaining hidden after nocking his bow. Please note that in all cases, an archer will become visible once the shot is actually fired.”

Perhaps Relv is suggesting lower the 20% chance on crit shot to say 5% or 0% if composite 50 bow is achieved.

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 5:11 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 2:26 PM
High magic spec is giving a reduction in mana for casters.

How about high archery spec giving free arrow recovery ra?

Or maybe reducing the chance to destealth by a small amount? from crit shot?

Isn't the second one already in?

Mon 17 Dec 2018 7:26 PM by relvinian

Yep

Mon 17 Dec 2018 8:38 PM by Turtle006

Dominus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 6:41 PM
Yes...

“Archer classes now have a chance of becoming visible when they nock their arrow. The way it worked up until now is that archers would always be invisible if they were using stealth until they fired their bow. Now, a skill check is performed when they “nock” their arrow. If they fail the check, they become visible. The chance to become visible is based on their specialization in Stealth. On normal (i.e. NOT critical shots), if they are 50% specc’ed in stealth, they will have a 50% chance of becoming visible; if they are 100% specc’ed, they will have a 100% chance of remaining hidden. On Critical Shots, the chance is the same as a normal shot, minus 20% – so an archer max specced in stealth will have an 80% of remaining hidden after nocking his bow. Please note that in all cases, an archer will become visible once the shot is actually fired.”

Perhaps Relv is suggesting lower the 20% chance on crit shot to say 5% or 0% if composite 50 bow is achieved.

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 5:11 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 2:26 PM
High magic spec is giving a reduction in mana for casters.

How about high archery spec giving free arrow recovery ra?

Or maybe reducing the chance to destealth by a small amount? from crit shot?

Isn't the second one already in?

That is based on stealth spec also, a bonus for higher archery spec makes sense to me.

Mon 17 Dec 2018 9:40 PM by relvinian

Maybe a bonus like the free stealth speed. 50 bow -10% chance to pop out of stealth when doing crit. skill/5 etc

Some other minor stuff like free arrow salvaging. Would imagine good archers know how to save arrows.

Fri 21 Dec 2018 12:28 AM by Emeryc

How about a "Quick Cast" or MoC type ability at 50 bow spec? Archers have no mechanism to mitigate the effects of the interrupt code while all other ranged DPS dealers do.

Fri 21 Dec 2018 4:08 PM by Zansobar

Bow Archers really need to get some buffs to damage (or to Dex) by speccing high in to Bow. My belief is if archers were fully buffed they might do ok, but because they never will be they are at a HUGE disadvantage since most of their targets will be fully buffed. That being said if at high bow spec there was a stacking innate +dex from trained points in bow only (not +spec) then this could be alleviated without giving melee archers a buff to their melee damage. The magnitude of the stacking +dex would need to be around +50 dex at 50 bow spec maybe a little more given the recent reduction in archer damage table and the changes to blocking arrow rates.

As it is, bow archers are probably the worst archetype in the game by far and won't be played in any meaningful way on yet another no buff bot server due to archers back in the day being balanced around always being fully buffed.

Fri 21 Dec 2018 6:19 PM by Emeryc

I agree that buffs are a huge issue and make "balancing" a nightmare. Personally, I think buffbots should be eliminated (of course), and buff pots/charges should be eliminated or SEVERELY limited... but that's for another thread.

However, I don't believe archery DPS is a big issue. When archers are able to deliver DPS, they are effective without being overpowered. The problem is the ubiquitous methods of eliminating the ability to deliver DPS via archery. Archery damage is ELIMINATED (not mitigated or lessened, mind you, but 100% eliminated) by the following:

Misses
Fumbles
Shields (with an additional +20% effectiveness at NO COST to the defender)
Evades
Bubbles
Interrupts

The interrupt code is the most egregious of these, imo. Once the interrupt cycle is initiated versus an archer, it is impossible for the archer to break it, like casters are able to do via Quick Cast and Mastery of Casting. Furthermore, EVERY character has cheap and easy access to an interrupt mechanism via charges... and most have innate or trainable abilities to interrupt such as DD shouts, insta spells or taunts. Add to this the insane ranges on many of these instant abilities and it spells disaster for an archer.

Mon 21 Jan 2019 10:32 PM by randomeclipse

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Dec 2018 6:19 PM
I agree that buffs are a huge issue and make "balancing" a nightmare. Personally, I think buffbots should be eliminated (of course), and buff pots/charges should be eliminated or SEVERELY limited... but that's for another thread.

However, I don't believe archery DPS is a big issue. When archers are able to deliver DPS, they are effective without being overpowered. The problem is the ubiquitous methods of eliminating the ability to deliver DPS via archery. Archery damage is ELIMINATED (not mitigated or lessened, mind you, but 100% eliminated) by the following:

Misses
Fumbles
Shields (with an additional +20% effectiveness at NO COST to the defender)
Evades
Bubbles
Interrupts

The interrupt code is the most egregious of these, imo. Once the interrupt cycle is initiated versus an archer, it is impossible for the archer to break it, like casters are able to do via Quick Cast and Mastery of Casting. Furthermore, EVERY character has cheap and easy access to an interrupt mechanism via charges... and most have innate or trainable abilities to interrupt such as DD shouts, insta spells or taunts. Add to this the insane ranges on many of these instant abilities and it spells disaster for an archer.

I’m looking forward to hitting 50.... 😭😢