classes that could (still) use some love

Started 8 Dec 2018
by yaru
in Suggestions
while there already lots of great changes have been introduced to certain classes, to make them more viable, imo some maybe still need a lil something.
classes i wanna share my ideas on in this thread:

reaver
wizard
vw
thane
zerk
hunter


from what i hear, hunters are pretty much at the beginning of the foodchain in the stealthgame. i feel like the change, which now prevents their pet from chasing a stealther thats going back into stealth should be a noticeable nerf to the class/pet i would think. so what could be done to buff them atleast a little bit?
maybe give the wolf a dotproc atleast, would add some dmg + give stealthers a harder time to restealth if its still ticking (maybe make it a fairly long duration, doesnt have to be alot of dmg imo).
giving them a diseaseproc on the other hand wouldnt be a good idea tho, since i think it would be way too strong and easy to kite people then.
another thing, pretty custom tho if im not mistaken, would be giving the wolf some sort of stealthlore/true sight/sniff out ability to (re-)pop other sneaks easier.

zerks. after the most recent changes to af/absorb i feel like they might even have a harder time to get/earn a slot in a grp. their dmg isnt great, and weaker than a svges and aside from some emergency peels they dont really provide anything else to the group. imo their dmg should be tuned up a bit (for the lack of any real defense) and maybe their utility/options expanded a bit by giving them for example a side stun in LA. they should have something in return for having such weak defense.

thane. in brackets cos i dont really have any idea for them yet. they re not really seen in most rvr grps despite the changes made to them already.
maybe a rather weak (short duration+high cooldown) pbaoe insta mezz (like cleric) or stun even.

vw. not sure if they need love still, i think theyre already in an ok-ish spot. then again i think it could be nice to give them castable single-disease atleast. would imo fit very well with its class-theme and not be too op i think (i mean was it with cls, that pretty much everyone got castable single disease? - this wasnt a great idea either imo btw). but a class that doesnt provide alot aside from, granted, very good dps and some rupts could really benefit from a change like that i feel without making it op.

disclaimer: im very aware that the following suggestions will most likely be too custom/outrageous for many, but still id like to share them .

wizards. with the latest changes to them, i think we re on a very good track here, cos it made a whole nother spec-line viable, even to a point that the others arent really worth it anymore, atleast incase u re the only wizz in the grp. with 2-3 of them in the same grp on the other hand, having 1 earth (+rest fire or cold, depending on the oder wizards' specs) + 2fire- or 2cold-wizards could be alot of fun, but back to the point. i love wizards and id really like them to be more than just the weakest caster of the realm which is mostly just being smiled/laughed at.
what about giving wizards access to a castable stun, in cold-specline? would very much fit with the cold-line and give wizards a chance to do something if people just purge ur root for example. with only having access to 1 cc type, in times of 5-15m purge, its pretty much a deathsentence whenever that root is being purged cos u have no other way of creating distance again, once people are on u (speaking mainly 1v1 here; i know, running solo wizard in 2018.. ). and for 8v8 u would actually aside from pbaoe, root, a decent base nuke (no variance) and rather low ns (green i guess), have a stun like all the hib magicians that can be of great value. dont think it would make wizards broken either, but make them more playable, especially solo/in smallmans.
adding stuff like disease/stat-debuffs would imo not fit in the theme at all and maybe even be way too balanceaffecting, cos too strong. wizards should stay wizards and not tried to be made into elds, so no disease/stat-debuffs imo.

i feel like reavers, despite their dmg-/rupt-potential are one of the weakest tanks right now (partly cos of buffs to other melees). also cos their dmg isnt very reliable if people arent blindly giving them their back.
since the auras are, aside from levi, reavers main trademark, i could imagine a pbaoe disease/aura with a low frequence/fairly high cooldown might do the trick. historically reavers are protectors of arawn, lord of the underworld. so disease would make alot of sense to me. might sound like a big change, but if the recast-timer was something between 15-30s i think it may not be too op. but thats something that would have to be tested/finetuned.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:34 PM by Azrael
yaru wrote: from what i hear
best kind of source!

yaru wrote: hunters are pretty much at the beginning of the foodchain
mh, is the beginning not the good one?

yaru wrote: reavers, despite their dmg-/rupt-potential are one of the weakest tank
almost best part.

I wonder if I will be silenced in future but many threads are really exhausting, I simply can not resist anymore.

in times of 5-15m purge , its pretty much a deathsentence whenever when you purge my mezz/stun on my bard/minstrel. Could you give them please root and instant pbae desease so it would be more uber.. eh meant viable in my duo/smallmens. kkthxby
minstrels, despite their dmg-/rupt-potential are one of the weakes in melee so could you put them on a higher damage table?
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:42 PM by yaru
VERY constructive reply. thx alot for that
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:47 PM by yaru
but if u really wanna go that route, alright.

"from what i hear". atleast im not trying to pretend im playing/knowing every class in and out.

i dont think the beginning of the food chain is the good one, no.

and yes, reavers wont have a slot in most competitive alb grps, cos theyre not as good as the others/cant provide enough for a grp aside from dmg/rupt.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:47 PM by Azrael
yw
Sat 8 Dec 2018 6:10 PM by defiasbandit
Revert the Earthline change. Give Wizards Ichor and a debuff to fire DD.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 6:29 PM by Uthred
Class changes are 99% done and we think, that it is fine as it is now. So dont expect any big changes coming in the future.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 6:43 PM by Larko
@Uthred - I hear you on not planning changes which is fine, but then can you speak on why you think there is balance between zerker and savage?

Savage has 2 stuns, much higher damage, higher defense so cannot be peeled nearly as easy and hardest hitting chains don’t have bleeds.

Zerker less dmg, easily peeled, and only damage chain has a bleed in 2nd line so you really can only use in rare parts of fight without having a negative effect. Zerk does get conquer though and a slightly higher chance to penetrate block/guard.

Based on those facts though, seems savage is the easy choice as far as effectiveness. But also from a fun factor, without being able to use the main left axe back positional chain in most situations due to bleed you’re left with a none style or back snare with conquer. Not the funnest of fun
Sat 8 Dec 2018 7:40 PM by Jabstar
thumbs up ! at least for effort, don't listen to people replying with pure negativism without any constructivism (could be a word).
It's hard to understand why you would reply with nothing but contempt. I personally would just not reply, save myself the hassle. Anyway! It will never change.

On the hunter part, DoT proc would probably be a suboptimal change. I see your intention in trying to buff the class, but a DoT on a class that often wants to kite and restealth, a DoT is probably suboptimal (unless it doesnt keep you in combat, or if the DoT is shorter then usual DoTs). In line with your suggestion, a short duration Snare proc, or as you proposed, a short duration desease proc, would be great! Emphasizing the short duration ofcourse. (but won't happen). The stealthlore suggestion seems quite powerful. Feels like it could be a RR5 ability.
Another possible buff would be removing 1 of the prerequisites for critshot to hit.

about crit shot:
Please note that critical shot will work against targets that are: sitting, standing still (which includes standing in combat mode but not actively swinging at something), walking, moving backwards, strafing, or casting a spell. Critical shot will not work against targets that are: running, in active combat (swinging at something), or mezzed. Stunned targets may be critical shot once any timers from active combat have expired if they are not yet free to act; i.e.: they may not be critical shot until their weapon delay timer has run out after their last attack, they may be critical shot during the period between the weapon delay running out and the stun wearing off, and they may not be critical shot once they have begun swinging again. If the target was in melee with an archer, the critical shot may not be drawn against them until after their weapon delay has run out or it will be interrupted

I'm not going to comment to much on other classes, i've not played in RvR and don't feel i'm in a place to comment with accuracy. I think you're trying to add utility to classes which is a nice sentiment, but a dangerous road to choose. You know how it goes, give something extra to a class and suddenly x amount of other classes start asking for more. Once everything is up and running, maybe number finetuning could happen? After that, who knows.

PS: yaru is one of the nicest guys i've ever met ingame. Be nice to him basterds!
Sat 8 Dec 2018 11:26 PM by Takii
What purpose does a pbae insta mezz serve on a tank exactly (other than spreading free cc immunities) ? Not to mention the hilarious fact that this class also has a pbae DD... If your goal is to make sure nobody invites Thanes to their group, that sounds like a good plan.
Sun 9 Dec 2018 1:22 AM by yaru
thats a good question. the more i thought about it, if anything it should be a stun, eventho this could may be too strong in combination with static tempest to clear stunimmunity right after it. i was only thinking about the pbaoe mezz cos of clerics smite line. but in general i have to agree and would say giving them a spell like that wouldnt make alot of sense. eventho it could be used to get something off u/someone in absolute emergencies, also in lets say 1v1(x)/smallman situations if enemies are stun immune/ST maybe down to reset immunity, idk. and in grpfights it would pretty much be free mezz immunity if used on det/stoic classes, on anything else not so much tho i would think. but as i said i didnt really come up with anything particularly useful for the thane.
also not quite sure why the fact that thanes would have a pbaoe dd too is hilarious. not every class having access to cc/aoe dmg at the same time automatically has to break its own cc, lol. maybe try using abilities when they re actually of use and not just because u have them/theyre up in that moment xD.

*and i figured/thats fine @uthred. still i think it can be useful sometimes to share a few ideas. might actually be something of value in there, and without other people giving it some thought too it can be hard to tell at times .
Sun 9 Dec 2018 5:26 PM by Exploder
Not every class needs to be balanced around 8 man nor should they be. Also, what you are seeing in groups currently is in no way any indication of what you will see on live.
Wed 12 Dec 2018 6:40 PM by BaldEagle
Zerks & Hunters won't get buffed. I have been advocating it before even i50. They will just not be played.... It is what it is I guess. 9sec slam for all light tanks, but zerks can't even get a small dmg buff.
Wed 12 Dec 2018 9:47 PM by Skorra
BaldEagle wrote:
Wed 12 Dec 2018 6:40 PM
Zerks & Hunters won't get buffed. I have been advocating it before even i50. They will just not be played.... It is what it is I guess. 9sec slam for all light tanks, but zerks can't even get a small dmg buff.

Zerks are the lowest Off-Tanks but Warriors are the best Full-Tanks.
Hunters are the lowest Archers but Shadowblades are the best Sneaks.

Thanes, Reavers, Champs are equal, but not /stick and anytimer of course.

For Midgard it is a pity, that Bonedancers are unplayable, because the third pet is lagging as hell and has speed lost all the time.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 2:09 AM by kmark101
Skorra wrote:
Wed 12 Dec 2018 9:47 PM
BaldEagle wrote:
Wed 12 Dec 2018 6:40 PM
Zerks & Hunters won't get buffed. I have been advocating it before even i50. They will just not be played.... It is what it is I guess. 9sec slam for all light tanks, but zerks can't even get a small dmg buff.

Zerks are the lowest Off-Tanks but Warriors are the best Full-Tanks.
Hunters are the lowest Archers but Shadowblades are the best Sneaks.

Thanes, Reavers, Champs are equal, but not /stick and anytimer of course.

For Midgard it is a pity, that Bonedancers are unplayable, because the third pet is lagging as hell and has speed lost all the time.

Used to be true in a previous environment, but currently Warriors at the same time are better damage dealers than zerkers, that's how bad the zerker situation is. Noone asked for slam or any defensive crap, just a small damage increase to justify this class. And no, thanes are not equal anymore, that other classes have access to Static Tempest, they are back to the bottom of the hybrid foodchain. So 2 of Mids melee classes are at the rock bottom...
Thu 13 Dec 2018 1:47 PM by Dominus
hunters could be buffed by increasing speed of their wolf pet. Heck the pet can't even catch a humanoid sprinting and it's a wolf! Wolves can run up to 45 MPH for up to 2 miles, but the poor hunter wolf just can't seem to make it.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 2:40 PM by Skorra
Skorra wrote:
Wed 12 Dec 2018 9:47 PM
Zerks are the lowest Off-Tanks but Warriors are the best Full-Tanks.
Hunters are the lowest Archers but Shadowblades are the best Sneaks.

Thanes, Reavers, Champs are equal, but not /stick and anytimer of course.

For Midgard it is a pity, that Bonedancers are unplayable, because the third pet is lagging as hell and has speed lost all the time.

BaldEagle wrote:
Wed 12 Dec 2018 6:40 PM
Used to be true in a previous environment, but currently Warriors at the same time are better damage dealers than zerkers, that's how bad the zerker situation is. Noone asked for slam or any defensive crap, just a small damage increase to justify this class. And no, thanes are not equal anymore, that other classes have access to Static Tempest, they are back to the bottom of the hybrid foodchain. So 2 of Mids melee classes are at the rock bottom...

Balancing is not Class versus Class! It is Realm versus Realm, as my example shows.

Static-Hybrids are equal but like I said - not /stick and anytimer.

Reavers need to do position styles.
Thanes need slam and backstyle snare.
Champs only work in close combat.

Troll Warrior is the best alternative for Zerker-Lovers. Stick-Slam-2H-Max-Damage also DET and Chain. Who needs Zerkers?
Reverse Situation in Albion. Merc is the better Armsman.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 5:07 PM by Kaziera
lulz no. Dashing defense + anytime snare + defenders rage + plate armor > merc crap
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