Revert PD nerf and/or nerf melee damage 10%(again).

Hello,

I feel like tanks deal too much damage for how easy it is to push right now with all realms having SOS+DI+PR+Still broken heals, on top of that you got SB lowering magic damage too now+BA for whole group+5 point empty mind giving 10% extra resists on top of aom you getting already.

You have so many abilities now on 10min timer so push groups got a huge buff recently, this is not how it should be.

"EASY" to play setup should not also be the strongest setup, balance is not yet found.

When nnf ra was introduced we saw solo BDs with i50+free rr6 going PD9 mcl2 purge and running around in emain and tank groups/scouts whining that they cant kill them fast enough, well that is no reason to nerf the ra... you have zero damage realm abilities nor utility RAs then, it is completely infeasible to spec that high PD even at high rank. You will be able to survive tank damage longer but if you face a caster group that is using correct ra spec with points spread out you are in a massive disadvantage.

The power cost changes is a good thing but more work is yet to be done.

That said well played caster group is still very good but how it looks to me right now is Dark age of tankalot, even tho i love deleting luris this is very sad.

Last thing, i feel like this whole mess is because the heals are broken since alpha ok. You cant just buff healing and not touch anything else without messing up the whole balance of the game.

Raunz

Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:38 AM by Cadebrennus

Translation: nerf others buff me plskthx

Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:18 AM by Sepplord

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:38 AM
Translation: nerf others buff me plskthx

which part did read like that?

his post sounds as if he plays tankgrp
when I saw him in game he was playing tankgrp

Mon 3 Dec 2018 7:41 AM by defiasbandit

The state of many melee classes is just making RvR look really bad here on phoenix. Healing has always been overpowered here. Healers full healing others like its Mists of Pandaria. Caster damage should be buffed to compensate.

Mon 3 Dec 2018 8:17 AM by Cadebrennus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:38 AM
Translation: nerf others buff me plskthx

which part did read like that?

his post sounds as if he plays tankgrp
when I saw him in game he was playing tankgrp

Tanks are actually in a good state. Not OP'ed but not weak either. I'm just sick of seeing posts where someone (probably) sucks and they ask for boosts for their favourite class to compensate.

Mon 3 Dec 2018 8:44 AM by Sei

Basically this post is only about buffing BD.

Dont talk about tank meta like pd would compensate what you are describing, ie lack of dmg vs full rupt/ SOS/ di, unless your solution for the lack of dmg is going pd on casters instead of dmg Ra?

Mon 3 Dec 2018 9:27 AM by Kaziera

The main thing came by making hybrids viable. Det on champ and vw made them viable. Therefore casters are getting caught way more often because of instand snare or root. Making casters weaker. Same happend by mid skald det buff.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 1:26 AM by Raunz

I thought about it more and all those changes need to happen and on top of that buff caster damage too while nerfing melee damage and reverting PD nerf.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:18 AM by daocgod

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 8:17 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:38 AM
Translation: nerf others buff me plskthx

which part did read like that?

his post sounds as if he plays tankgrp
when I saw him in game he was playing tankgrp

Tanks are actually in a good state. Not OP'ed but not weak either. I'm just sick of seeing posts where someone (probably) sucks and they ask for boosts for their favourite class to compensate.

who are u

Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:24 AM by Cadebrennus

daocgod wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:18 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 8:17 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:18 AM
which part did read like that?

his post sounds as if he plays tankgrp
when I saw him in game he was playing tankgrp

Tanks are actually in a good state. Not OP'ed but not weak either. I'm just sick of seeing posts where someone (probably) sucks and they ask for boosts for their favourite class to compensate.

who are u

See the signature

Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:58 AM by Isavyr

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:38 AM
Translation: nerf others buff me plskthx

Attack the ideas, not the poster.

Several of the issues Raunz raises were present before Phoenix. For example, caster damage is pitiful without debuffs, making caster damage needlessly weak.
And bonedancers were poorly designed, regardless of whether PD exists. Their instant 1500-range interrupting abilities deviated from classic balance in which instant spells were either 700 range, or had long cooldowns--sometimes both.

I agree with Raunz as to the causes of melee's ascendancy, but I think there are other solutions. For example, look at SoS. Groups can use it aggressively to provide their group with CC immunity while charging into the fight without a downside or direct counter. If it were like OF SoS, in that the person can move but is prevented from action due to enemy's CC, it would be balanced. I think this is a better solution as it brings the ability in-line with fundamental DAOC mechanics.

While melee damage may need a nerf, I'm not seeing the need for PD to change in its value, nor do I see how healing changes are creating problems for casters.

People don't heal more hit-points than before; they simply sustain healing for longer periods of time. As far as I can tell, this doesn't affect caster groups because they rely on burst, not sustain, to down targets. In the event they are doing sustain, they didn't surpass a healer's mana pool before anyway. As far as I can tell, this affects melee and not casters, as melee often rely on sustained damage.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 7:31 AM by Ceen

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:58 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:38 AM
Translation: nerf others buff me plskthx
I agree with Raunz as to the causes of melee's ascendancy, but I think there are other solutions. For example, look at SoS. Groups can use it aggressively to provide their group with CC immunity while charging into the fight without a downside or direct counter.

Direct counter is? Sos? ^^

Tue 4 Dec 2018 9:58 AM by Druth

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:58 AM
While melee damage may need a nerf, I'm not seeing the need for PD to change in its value, nor do I see how healing changes are creating problems for casters.

Not gonna turn down an opportunity to say "nerf slam"...
9 sec anytime melee stun does not help making melee any less unbalanced.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 10:49 AM by Sei

I m perfectly fine with the idea that mele set up could (because it is not obvious Imo) be a bit stronger in 8v8, since caster set up are way better with zergling, especially with the recent Mana change

I d like to know what kind of player (Casual or elite 8men) thing there is a Big unbalance currently that would motivate a caster up?

Tue 4 Dec 2018 2:42 PM by Ardri

I mostly agree with Raunz.

Melee push groups are by far the easiest setups to play, and now with every realm getting low cooldown purge, sos, empty mind, more magic resist RAs etc they are that much more powerful vs CC and magic dmg. This coupled with the buffed heals that barely cost any power is just too much. If ONE healer is open, it's insanely hard to drop a tank unless you have disease on it, debuff it, and assist burst it down fast. Healers have yellow regen power pots, 99 power pots, 70 power charge items, mcl2 (reduced cost 9pts), raging power 1 (only 5 pts), and a buffed serenity. That's going cheap on power RAs (14pts) too. If you manage your power, it's almost infinite heals.

So where does this lead us? Just more buffs for the most oppressive anti-fun comp in the game. Hib 5 naturalist groups. Something has to be done about this plague to classic DAoC. It's anti-fun and not even enjoyable when you win with it. Just mongoloid push 24/7 and 1 of your 5 healers is always open to keep you full health. Go up against a good caster grp? Lol 2 sos. Quite the joke honestly.

And then PD is nerfed into being a useless RA that no one gets because it's cost inefficient. Hell, even MoTA 5 feels like it barely does anything as well now.

So you have all these new RA's that help mitigate magic dmg, more cc reduction via purge and sos always up, buffed heals and more healing RAs, gave more people cure disease, nerfed disease in general, and then nerfed PD. All buffs to melee, meanwhile there has been very little done for casters.

You guys reduced spec nuke power cost, but those were already reduced costs at a faster cast rate (aka not a problem). Where power issues happen is the baseline nuke, which already costs more power, that the majority of caster classes use. But even still, caster power costs are not that much of a problem for good players who manage their power.

THE MAIN PROBLEM is the ratio of magic dmg given to juggernaut like tanks who can't be cc'd vs the damage mitigation/healed by infinite power healers.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 2:55 PM by Kaziera

I mostly concur with the above post.

One thing to consider is though, that at release it will take quite some time until somebody reaches the level of equipment we are experiencing here.

That beeing said, imo hib profited most from the hybrid buff, making champs viable giving hib grps extra utility with debuffs and static, while mids cant really run a thane instead of a warrior. Albs are even worse off, they need a friar.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 3:34 PM by Isavyr

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 2:42 PM
THE MAIN PROBLEM is the ratio of magic dmg given to juggernaut like tanks who can't be cc'd vs the damage mitigation/healed by infinite power healers.

Healers don't heal more hit-points than before; they simply sustain healing for longer periods of time. As far as I can tell,this doesn't affect caster groups because they rely on burst, not sustain, to down targets. In the event they are doing sustain, casters didn't surpass a healer's mana pool before anyway. As far as I can tell, the healing changes affects melee groups, not casters.

You acknowledged that caster debuff groups often use baseline DD, which is mana inefficient. People didn't surpass healer's mana pools with it before, or after, so healing doesn't seem to have changed this scenario, nor does the Phoenix change to make spec-line DD more efficient seem relevant to changing the meta. Do you think they should be more efficient? Should damage efficiency > healing efficiency, in order to create an offensively favored meta?

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 2:42 PM
So you have all these new RA's that help mitigate magic dmg, more cc reduction via purge andsos always up, buffed heals and more healing RAs, gave more people cure disease, nerfed disease in general, and then nerfed PD. All buffs to melee, meanwhile there has been very little done for casters.

I think where the RAs are the problem, the RAs need nerfing, because they are the largest factor that changed. For example, the shorter purge is problematic across the board. People are bucking CC too readily--don't have to be discriminate about it.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 3:37 PM by kedelin

I think they should put det9 9 back to 34 points.. it would balance out so all tanks wouldn't be det9 and have there damage ras at rr6..

Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:48 PM by daocgod

idk why they custom buffed det cost as a kneejerk reaction to CLASSIC TANK ONLY players crying about new ra's.

custom changes that are dumb lead to more custom changes creating an abomination of a daoc patch. i am all for a custom server but adding heal changes (the archetype didnt need help btw. its just incredibly boring and you all ignore that because muh clicking spreadheal), nerfing heals, making styles more retard proof, nerfing melee damage, buffing melee damage and whatever else came between. cure nearsight was a step in the right direction but everything else could be discarded.

doing anything with physical defense is not the answer, casters should not need pd to avoid a 2 shot. they already need rank 10 to be relevant, no need to add pd on top of that.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:06 PM by Ceen

Well if you could strip the tanks by shears they drop fast and do remarkably less damage - just saying ^^

Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:18 PM by defiasbandit

The best fix is to buff caster damage. Maybe 10%. Healers and tanks should be punished for bad plays.

Tue 4 Dec 2018 7:04 PM by daocgod

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:06 PM
Well if you could strip the tanks by shears they drop fast and do remarkably less damage - just saying ^^

exactly
but this is a server for shitties by shitties so I don't see that happening

Tue 4 Dec 2018 8:20 PM by Kaziera

daocgod wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 7:04 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:06 PM
Well if you could strip the tanks by shears they drop fast and do remarkably less damage - just saying ^^

exactly
but this is a server for shitties by shitties so I don't see that happening

now that tone and atitude will get things done faster !

you are not the brightest cookie in the jar, are you ?

Wed 5 Dec 2018 6:32 AM by Isavyr

More anti-healer sentiment. Can at least one of you support that position with analysis?

Wed 5 Dec 2018 1:47 PM by Kaziera

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 6:32 AM
More anti-healer sentiment. Can at least one of you support that position with analysis?

I dont see any anti healer sentiment here. All i see is the mentioning of a imbalance between the realms because of the ability to field 5 supports for hib instead of 4 on mid and 3 at best on alb.

Please read more carefully.

Wed 5 Dec 2018 3:51 PM by Sepplord

2 bards are redundant, and to see that it is still very strong shows a problem with the class imo
no-one would run two skalds or two minstrels because they don't offer anything that another class wouldn't do better besides speed, and you only need one speed class

nerf the IMMENSE utility bards bring to the table imo

Wed 5 Dec 2018 4:42 PM by Isavyr

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 1:47 PM
Please read more carefully.

I'm referring to the healer changes. People aren't expanding on why it's a problem, other than ardri. Naturalist 5 group always had the most healing pool, which made it difficult to drop targets. That isn't new. These are the below comments that I am responding to as a whole:

[daocgod]: i am all for a custom server but adding heal changes (the archetype didnt need help btw. its just incredibly boring and you all ignore that because muh clicking spreadheal)
[ardri]: THE MAIN PROBLEM is the ratio of magic dmg given to juggernaut like tanks who can't be cc'd vs the damage mitigation/healed by infinite power healers.
[raunz]: You cant just buff healing and not touch anything else without messing up the whole balance of the game.
[defiasbandit]: Healing has always been overpowered here. Healers full healing others like its Mists of Pandaria.

Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:49 PM by Kaziera

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 4:42 PM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 1:47 PM
Please read more carefully.

I'm referring to the healer changes. People aren't expanding on why it's a problem, other than ardri. Naturalist 5 group always had the most healing pool, which made it difficult to drop targets. That isn't new. These are the below comments that I am responding to as a whole:

[daocgod]: i am all for a custom server but adding heal changes (the archetype didnt need help btw. its just incredibly boring and you all ignore that because muh clicking spreadheal)
[ardri]: THE MAIN PROBLEM is the ratio of magic dmg given to juggernaut like tanks who can't be cc'd vs the damage mitigation/healed by infinite power healers.
[raunz]: You cant just buff healing and not touch anything else without messing up the whole balance of the game.
[defiasbandit]: Healing has always been overpowered here. Healers full healing others like its Mists of Pandaria.

Allright, i see where you are comming from. First of all, pls dont quote defias. thats like listening to the madman in the city centre, foretelling the end of the world.

Other than that, they are pretty much only mentioning a balancing issue in context with the healing power. and nobody of them actually supposes a nerf of healers.

Raunz just mentiones an "issue" and wants a caster tweak, adri wants shears and daocgod is just trashtalking.

I for my part see the problem more in the dominance of hibs in 8man fights.

Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:50 PM by defiasbandit

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:49 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 4:42 PM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 1:47 PM
Please read more carefully.

I'm referring to the healer changes. People aren't expanding on why it's a problem, other than ardri. Naturalist 5 group always had the most healing pool, which made it difficult to drop targets. That isn't new. These are the below comments that I am responding to as a whole:

[daocgod]: i am all for a custom server but adding heal changes (the archetype didnt need help btw. its just incredibly boring and you all ignore that because muh clicking spreadheal)
[ardri]: THE MAIN PROBLEM is the ratio of magic dmg given to juggernaut like tanks who can't be cc'd vs the damage mitigation/healed by infinite power healers.
[raunz]: You cant just buff healing and not touch anything else without messing up the whole balance of the game.
[defiasbandit]: Healing has always been overpowered here. Healers full healing others like its Mists of Pandaria.

Allright, i see where you are comming from. First of all, pls dont quote defias. thats like listening to the madman in the city centre, foretelling the end of the world.

Other than that, they are pretty much only mentioning a balancing issue in context with the healing power. and nobody of them actually supposes a nerf of healers.

Raunz just mentiones an "issue", adri wants shears and daocgod is just trashtalking.

I for my part see the problem more in the dominance of hibs in 8man fights.

Support classes are overtuned here. You don't even need to 8 man to understand this. How about increase magic damage by 15% or something?

Thu 6 Dec 2018 12:01 AM by Cadebrennus

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:50 PM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:49 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 4:42 PM
I'm referring to the healer changes. People aren't expanding on why it's a problem, other than ardri. Naturalist 5 group always had the most healing pool, which made it difficult to drop targets. That isn't new. These are the below comments that I am responding to as a whole:

[daocgod]: i am all for a custom server but adding heal changes (the archetype didnt need help btw. its just incredibly boring and you all ignore that because muh clicking spreadheal)
[ardri]: THE MAIN PROBLEM is the ratio of magic dmg given to juggernaut like tanks who can't be cc'd vs the damage mitigation/healed by infinite power healers.
[raunz]: You cant just buff healing and not touch anything else without messing up the whole balance of the game.
[defiasbandit]: Healing has always been overpowered here. Healers full healing others like its Mists of Pandaria.

Allright, i see where you are comming from. First of all, pls dont quote defias. thats like listening to the madman in the city centre, foretelling the end of the world.

Other than that, they are pretty much only mentioning a balancing issue in context with the healing power. and nobody of them actually supposes a nerf of healers.

Raunz just mentiones an "issue", adri wants shears and daocgod is just trashtalking.

I for my part see the problem more in the dominance of hibs in 8man fights.

Support classes are overtuned here. You don't even need to 8 man to understand this. How about increase magic damage by 15% or something?

Why? Melee was already nerfed 18% according to Devs. (I haven't confirmed this number)

Thu 6 Dec 2018 2:17 AM by defiasbandit

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 12:01 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:50 PM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 5:49 PM
Allright, i see where you are comming from. First of all, pls dont quote defias. thats like listening to the madman in the city centre, foretelling the end of the world.

Other than that, they are pretty much only mentioning a balancing issue in context with the healing power. and nobody of them actually supposes a nerf of healers.

Raunz just mentiones an "issue", adri wants shears and daocgod is just trashtalking.

I for my part see the problem more in the dominance of hibs in 8man fights.

Support classes are overtuned here. You don't even need to 8 man to understand this. How about increase magic damage by 15% or something?

Why? Melee was already nerfed 18% according to Devs. (I haven't confirmed this number)

Caster damage probably doesn't need buffs, but healing definitely needs nerfs.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 7:11 AM by Isavyr

Stating a thing doesn't make it so. I don't see why you (Defias) are stating something twice in this thread without explaining yourself. It's useless to post opinions on a discussion thread without any rationale on why you have your opinions.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 7:49 AM by defiasbandit

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 7:11 AM
Stating a thing doesn't make it so. I don't see why you (Defias) are stating something twice in this thread without explaining yourself. It's useless to post opinions on a discussion thread without any rationale on why you have your opinions.

Because you can full heal players in 2 seconds here and not go OOM. That's not how classic DAOC worked. 8mans are running 2-3 healing classes right now. With the recent nerf to Melee Damage, it is going to make healing even stronger.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 12:53 PM by Takii

You're still just posting statements without any evidence...

Thu 6 Dec 2018 2:14 PM by Kaziera

Takii wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 12:53 PM
You're still just posting statements without any evidence...

Do you still read his posts?

Thu 6 Dec 2018 4:06 PM by Isavyr

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 7:49 AM
Because you can full heal players in 2 seconds here and not go OOM. That's not how classic DAOC worked. 8mans are running 2-3 healing classes right now. With the recent nerf to Melee Damage, it is going to make healing even stronger.

The implication here is that melee group should be able to only attack targets, and enemy healer's mana will deplete to zero, and melee wins! Good game mechanics! Stick and melee was all that was necessary!

The game has so many counters to healing; for example, rooting healers such that their allies inevitably become out of range, diseasing, mezzing, nearsighting, stunning, rupting by pet or player, or... a combination of the above!

It sounds like you want few tactics to be necessary to win, and that melee should quickly drain an enemy healer's mana--as it already happens, just not within 20 seconds. So answer this: what time frame is reasonable to you that melee should drain healer's mana without any additional mechanics beyond stick and attack?

Thu 6 Dec 2018 4:23 PM by Isavyr

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 7:49 AM
Because you can full heal players in 2 seconds here and not go OOM. That's not how classic DAOC worked. 8mans are running 2-3 healing classes right now. With the recent nerf to Melee Damage, it is going to make healing even stronger.

Two more counterpoints:
1) For awhile in classic, healing was very efficient, due to a "bug", and actually felt similar to now. (I will find patchnote later)

2) Do you want to return to a point when spreadheal was the most mana efficient heal for healers? That's how it was in classic:
https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28939
In fact, I think spreadheal is still too good currently as it got buffed with the other options. I'll have to double check in-game later, but I think it's still improved over strict 1.65.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 4:59 PM by defiasbandit

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 4:23 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 7:49 AM
Because you can full heal players in 2 seconds here and not go OOM. That's not how classic DAOC worked. 8mans are running 2-3 healing classes right now. With the recent nerf to Melee Damage, it is going to make healing even stronger.

Two more counterpoints:
1) For awhile in classic, healing was very efficient, due to a "bug", and actually felt similar to now. (I will find patchnote later)

2) Do you want to return to a point when spreadheal was the most mana efficient heal for healers? That's how it was in classic:
https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28939
In fact, I think spreadheal is still too good currently as it got buffed with the other options. I'll have to double check in-game later, but I think it's still improved over strict 1.65.

Yeah. It would be preferable if it more resembled classic. Where the fights took more skill. Where 8 mans didn't have 3 healers. Where players would actually die for their mistakes.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 5:03 PM by

gruenesschaf

Healing was pretty much the worst about 1.65 / pre 1.88 and having spread be the usually best heal is not something that will make a comeback.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 5:16 PM by Takii

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 4:59 PM
Yeah. It would be preferable if it more resembled classic. Where the fights took more skill. Where 8 mans didn't have 3 healers. Where players would actually die for their mistakes.

Every post I am more and more convinced that you didn't really play this game.

MANY Mid classic 8 mans ran 3 Healers/shaman melee groups, and every Hib group had between 3 and 4 healing classes (druids/bard/warden). The only reason albs didn't run friars is because Alb has their Core abilities spread across more classes than fit in a group (and because Friars without det are kind of bad).

Thu 6 Dec 2018 5:43 PM by defiasbandit

Takii wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 5:16 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 4:59 PM
Yeah. It would be preferable if it more resembled classic. Where the fights took more skill. Where 8 mans didn't have 3 healers. Where players would actually die for their mistakes.

Every post I am more and more convinced that you didn't really play this game.

MANY Mid classic 8 mans ran 3 Healers/shaman melee groups, and every Hib group had between 3 and 4 healing classes (druids/bard/warden). The only reason albs didn't run friars is because Alb has their Core abilities spread across more classes than fit in a group (and because Friars without det are kind of bad).

You didnt play classic if you think healers could heal nearly as effectively as they do here. The healing here more ckosely resembles Mists of Pandaria. Fast heals and never going oom.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 6:44 PM by Kaziera

you clearly never played a dedicated healer. <Edited>

Thu 6 Dec 2018 8:09 PM by

Uthred

Guys, pls. No insults. Try to discuss in a civil way or I have to close this thread.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 8:29 PM by defiasbandit

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 6:44 PM
you clearly never played a dedicateld healer. <Edited>

Hey buddy I found your dedicated healer.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 9:07 PM by Kaziera

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 8:29 PM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 6:44 PM
you clearly never played a dedicateld healer. <Edited>

Hey buddy I found your dedicated healer.

repeating the same over and over again does not make it true. also not if you add pics.

Thu 6 Dec 2018 9:15 PM by defiasbandit

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 9:07 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 8:29 PM
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 6:44 PM
you clearly never played a dedicateld healer. <Edited>

Hey buddy I found your dedicated healer.

repeating the same over and over again does not make it true. also not if you add pics.

Pandamonium!

Fri 7 Dec 2018 6:54 AM by Isavyr

Defias,
I don't have any idea of what you mean by classic, and I'm not sure you do either. Spreadheal was the best heal in "classic", and required the least skill, but you say you want classic because it required the most skill; that's a contradiction. The existence of battery and spreadheal, which are thoughtless heal mechanics, were introduced in classic.

I'm still waiting for a reply on how long you think it should take a melee group to wear out enemy healer's mana pool without using any mechanics beyond melee damage.

Fri 7 Dec 2018 8:19 AM by Cadebrennus

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 6:54 AM
Defias,
I don't have any idea of what you mean by classic, and I'm not sure you do either. Spreadheal was the best heal in "classic", and required the least skill, but you say you want classic because it required the most skill; that's a contradiction. The existence of battery and spreadheal, which are thoughtless heal mechanics, were introduced in classic.

I'm still waiting for a reply on how long you think it should take a melee group to wear out enemy healer's mana pool without using any mechanics beyond melee damage.

For that matter, I think that's a very good question for a Developer response