Testing XP

Started 25 Nov 2018
by Uthred
in PvE
As Schaf already said before, we are starting a little testing series to test our xp rate. The first test will start at 5pm Cet today (in 3h40mins from now). Therefor we need your help. We are looking for 5 more players to fill our grp.

This time we are going to test in Hibernia. We want to test the speed of a meleegrp, so this will be the setup of it.

Bard
Druid
Nightshade
Menta
Ranger
BM
Hero
Warden

We want to test for roundabout 2 hours. If you would like to help, please post an answer with the class you would like to play. Then create a lvl 1 char and bring it to Domnann as we are going to start there. Please dont get the free 5L9 and dont get any of the free gear, pots, etc.

PS: This thread is just for testing and not for any comments on setup and/or xp in general. If you cant join this time, there will be more tests to come.
Sun 25 Nov 2018 12:38 PM by Tritri
I'll take the druid spot

edit : 'Plmeplz' druid lvl 1 created currently at Domnann !
Sun 25 Nov 2018 2:58 PM by Kwall0311
Ill play the hero (Mightymoose)
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:20 PM by relvinian
Was interested but my kid will wake up soon and no way I can commit to 2 hours straight.
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:20 PM by Kaziera
Would play Warden, but i need some break for an Hour somwhere around dinner time. Charname Opbt

Edit: should work out if we start and finish on time
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:35 PM by Uthred
BM - Smoover
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:41 PM by b14z3d
Starts in 20? I can help with bard. Blazebard
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:41 PM by labra
Ranger (Labrange)
Or, if you decide to alterate setup: Adilit, Valewalker
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:43 PM by Beepbop
NS - Minibeefall
Sun 25 Nov 2018 3:47 PM by cortexqc
Cortexqcment
Sun 25 Nov 2018 5:07 PM by Waygone
I know it's not a huge deal, and I'm sure your testing other realms, but with Hibs owning 5/6 relics testing will be skewed in your favor.
If we could just lock relics already, equal testing could be done in all aspects of the game. No meaningful testing is being done on relic/relic keeps now anyway.
I will ask, why NOT lock them?
Sun 25 Nov 2018 6:14 PM by cortexqc
yes sure they take this in count and other things :
- like the fact all testers are not new player/casual we all know very well classes and standard mob spot.
- like mobs be little farmed on live server but they aren't now.
Sun 25 Nov 2018 6:37 PM by Uthred
Thx everyone who took part and also thanks to those players that couldnt take part because the grp was full. The grp made it to lvl 18.4 in nearly 2 hours, starting in SI and switched to FZ after hitting lvl 15. We got a lot of data and input and I will let you know when the next test will be. Our calculation is that this grp would have made it to lvl 50 in prolly 36h played.

Next test will be in another realm, prolly Albion but not 100% sure yet. We did Hibernia today because we tested Midgard last time. And yes, we know that hib has the relic bonus atm, thats only one of the reasons why we are going to test XP in every realm.
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:08 PM by relvinian
Uthred wrote: ↑
Sun 25 Nov 2018 6:37 PM
Thx everyone who took part and also thanks to those players that couldnt take part because the grp was full. The grp made it to lvl 18.4 in nearly 2 hours, starting in SI and switched to FZ after hitting lvl 15. We got a lot of data and input and I will let you know when the next test will be. Our calculation is that this grp would have made it to lvl 50 in prolly 36h played.

Next test will be in another realm, prolly Albion but not 100% sure yet. We did Hibernia today because we tested Midgard last time. And yes, we know that hib has the relic bonus atm, thats only one of the reasons why we are going to test XP in every realm.

36 hours to 50? What was the stated ideal for 50 time? Was it 8 different classes? Is there a bonus to si as compared to the mainland?

Thanks.
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:39 PM by Kaziera
has allready been said. goal for them is 48h to 50, grp setup is in initial post.
Mon 26 Nov 2018 12:22 AM by relvinian
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:39 PM
has allready been said. goal for them is 48h to 50, grp setup is in initial post.

Thanks. I forget stuff, I'm old.

So 36 hours sitting in front of the game in a perfect group to get to 50?

Or 48 hours sitting in front of the game in a perfect group to get to 50?
Mon 26 Nov 2018 2:10 AM by Sepplord
afaik the initial statement was to have average players leveling in groups taking 48h played to 50

so I wouldn't think that means 48h of being grouped and pulling mobs

36hours pure leveling time would leave 12hours for grp building. Meaning people playing in 2hours sessions can LFG for 30minutes, XP for 90minutes and should reach 50 after 48h playtime/36hours actually pulling mobs


At least that's how I currently understand it, IF that is actually how its supposed to be I think that might work out
Mon 26 Nov 2018 3:26 AM by relvinian
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 26 Nov 2018 2:10 AM
afaik the initial statement was to have average players leveling in groups taking 48h played to 50

so I wouldn't think that means 48h of being grouped and pulling mobs

36hours pure leveling time would leave 12hours for grp building. Meaning people playing in 2hours sessions can LFG for 30minutes, XP for 90minutes and should reach 50 after 48h playtime/36hours actually pulling mobs


At least that's how I currently understand it, IF that is actually how its supposed to be I think that might work out

So if you play a couple hours per day give or take-- roughly 3 weeks grouped to get to 50.
Mon 26 Nov 2018 10:11 AM by Kaziera
Also the above posted setup is far from perfect.
Tue 27 Nov 2018 4:54 PM by Uthred
Next test inc. Today at 8 pm Cet (in 2hours 10mins from now), we are going to visit the beautiful land of Albion and kill some monsters there. If you would like to take part, please answer in this thread with your name and the class you would like to play. We need 5, maybe 6 players, test should take 2 hours again.

Please create a new char, go to your trainer (do not click the master trainer) and do /level 34. Then port to Yarleys Farm. Please make sure, that you dont get the free 5L9. Dont take any gear, pots, etc from the i50 merchant. You should get a full set of armor, weapon and jewelery when you do the /level 34 command.

This will be the setup of the grp for today:

Cleric
Friar
Wizard
Sorc
Paladin
Armsman
Minstrel
Theurg
Tue 27 Nov 2018 5:00 PM by Beepbop
Beepbopjeesh - Friar
Tue 27 Nov 2018 5:05 PM by CronU
Clazard - Wizard
Tue 27 Nov 2018 5:17 PM by Kytie
Saphy - Sorc
Tue 27 Nov 2018 5:19 PM by gouran
Galpen - Armsman
Tue 27 Nov 2018 5:48 PM by Shanicorax3
Shaiinzheal - Cleric
Tue 27 Nov 2018 5:49 PM by Shanicorax3
And Highminst - Minstrel (He lost his password)
Tue 27 Nov 2018 6:01 PM by judah
ill play paladin - stylus
Tue 27 Nov 2018 9:35 PM by Uthred
Thx again for all that helped and also thx a lot for those who couldnt help because the grp was full. We made 3 levels from 34 to 37 with that grp/setup. First hour we were in Lyonesse, 2nd hour we were xping in the FZ. Made roundabout 450g while xping, that is something that might get nerfed a little. To sum it up, XP rate seems great and this grp would have made it to lvl 50 in the estimated time.
Tue 27 Nov 2018 9:50 PM by Uthred
Last but not least we are going to Midgard again. This time we will begin at lvl 45. Start is tomorrow at 2pm Cet (in 15 hours from now). If you would like to take part, please answer in this thread with your name and the class you would like to play. We need 5, maybe 6 players, test should take 2 hours again.

Please create a new char, go to your trainer (do not click the master trainer) and do /level 45. Then port to Hagall. Please make sure, that you dont get the free 5L9. Dont take any gear, pots, etc from the i50 merchant. You will get a full set of armor, weapon and jewelery when you do the /level 45 command.

The setup:

Healer (aug)
Healer (pac)
Shaman
Warrior
Skald
Thane
Svg
Berserk
Tue 27 Nov 2018 10:10 PM by ColdHands
Hypeman - Pac
Wed 28 Nov 2018 6:28 AM by Kaziera
Berserk Pikass
Wed 28 Nov 2018 9:16 AM by labra
Thanabra - Thane
Wed 28 Nov 2018 12:17 PM by CronU
Clavage - Savage
Wed 28 Nov 2018 12:26 PM by Evoenia
Parakeet - Warrior
Wed 28 Nov 2018 12:33 PM by Eyster
Farham - aug healer
Wed 28 Nov 2018 5:27 PM by Uthred
Thx again to all who helped.

We made 2 level and 2 bubs in 120 times, xping from lvl 45 to 47. We reached lvl 46 after 50 mins, killing mobs in Modernav. After that we went to the Crimfins and made it to level 47.2 at the end of 2 hours. I made roundabout 900g and some feathers as the named fin at Crimfins is dropping some of them.

Meleewise we had a perfect grpsetup and we only had very few people dead (thx Schaf for not healing). This setup would make it way faster than 48h to level 50, depending on the downtime like AFK, getting ganked in FZ, LDs, etc but I guess 30 to 35 hours should be realistic too. If we would have gone to a fz dungeon and/or if we would have tried to farm xp items, we prolly would have been faster. Definitely a huge help is when you change mobs from time to time. I would recommend changing the mob type (if possible) after finishing pve task lvl 3. At lvl 46 a completed pve task at the crimfins was 0.5 bubs and there you are doing always two tasks at once (creatures in fz and undead creatures).

So, what is next? I really would like to test a Dot'n'Run Grp, which is prolly the fastest way to XP. Guess im going to post another test very soon. Also Vivien would like to test the new mobs in Raumarik, Cursed Forest & Lyln Bafog. Stay tuned if you want to test those with us. We will let you know as soon as possible.
Wed 28 Nov 2018 10:34 PM by keen
test your custom ellyl camps next to snow
Thu 29 Nov 2018 12:53 PM by Uthred
Next test will be tonite at 7pm Cet (in 5 hours from now). We are going to test the feather-dropping-bosses in Raumarik, Cursed Forest and Llyn Bafog. We are going to start in Alb, we will meet at Llyn Barfog Horse (Port to Snowdonia Castle and take the horse to Llyn Barfog.)

This time you are allowed to take a lvl 50 toon, get the RR5L9 and the free level gear, pots, etc from the i50 merchant. I guess the test will take like 2 hours also, but we will see as we want to test every feather-dropping-boss in those zones. Our Albion Setup will be:

Cleric
Friar
Theurg (taken)
Paladin
Sorc
Arms
Merc
Wizard

If you would like to take part, please answer in this thread with your name and the class you would like to play. We need 5, maybe 6 players, test should take 2 hours again.
Thu 29 Nov 2018 1:11 PM by Vivien
Theurg
Thu 29 Nov 2018 1:52 PM by Kaziera
Cleric paly arms or wiz. This time i set myself an alarm.
Thu 29 Nov 2018 2:04 PM by Beepbop
Beepbopjeesh - Friar

lets recycle our characters then
Thu 29 Nov 2018 4:47 PM by Rawr
Rawr/Shux - Cleric
Thu 29 Nov 2018 5:20 PM by Jabstar
can do Wizard - name is jabswiz
Thu 29 Nov 2018 5:34 PM by Uthred
Kaziera - paladin pls
Thu 29 Nov 2018 5:37 PM by Jabstar
btw i solod a feather mob in rauma earlier today, didnt drop feathers :> curious if it does this time when we get tehre ;p
Thu 29 Nov 2018 5:43 PM by Uthred
Sorc
Fri 30 Nov 2018 9:46 AM by Kaziera
So whats next?
Fri 30 Nov 2018 3:11 PM by relvinian
I would like to point out that if you xp in periods of a couple hours each day it shows a different xp rate than if you login and play all day.

When you login on an empty server in an ideal group in an ideal spot and play for 2 hours then you get the following:
1. group bonus with bonus for each separate class.
2. New camp bonus
3. All those nifty task bonuses.

After two hours those tasks become quite large.

I have noticed that if I solo on this empty server with no pks and no competition for camps I can get all that cool stuff too.
If I play for 2 hours at a time the task bonuses are pretty nice.
If I get the eggs and the xp items (without competition from other players) those bonuses are pretty nice.

So basically solo I could login and play for 2 hours per day and my actual /played time would be pretty low relative to level

But of course this is on an empty server without competition, no pks, playing a good solo class, etc.

Whenever you step out of this 2 hour window the tasks get really slow, the eggs are not all that useful at higher levels, if all the good camps are taken the frontier are full of pks and you slog along killing yellows in say cornwall or dartmoor, whatever-- xp is kind of slow. like as if someone had increased the xp twice beyond the normal base daoc xp.

This is all going to increase the gap between hardcore players and casual enormously. You will get those nolifers who will hit 50 in the first 2 days. They will be temped, up and running, and taking keeps in a week. They will then kill the crap out of casuals who are xping, their twinks will be 50 asap and killing xpers.

The casuals will be even more at a disadvantage because they will be feeding rps to these hardcore players in the frontier. DF will be closed, probably. The dungeons will be camped. The hardcore players will monopolize the xp items camps-- or else in the frontier camping them on their pks.

At which point the normal player will have to play in lyonnesse or something. They can either play all day long without much benefit from tasks or they can play in 2 hour windows and take a month or more to get to 50.

I tried to break this down and go in a long explanation as to why it is a bad idea to have the baseline xp be increased two times and then give bonuses which not everyone will be able to get. The better course would be to restore the xp to the original base levels and tweak it to whatever you want from there. I cannot explain it anymore clearly than this. It comes to the same thing. If you want to give bonuses to the frontier, dungeons, whatever, then adjust those, but don't increase the base xp in normal play areas which may be all that is available. And don't take an elite vs casual position, for a game which already really has a split on those two groups, and increase the divide further.

I see two scenarios after a week:

1. login on my 50 twink and gank xpers.

2. Login on my casual toon and go to frontier and die horribly solo to pks.

3. Login on my twink and farm xp items in dungeons

4. Login on my casual toon and go to dungeon, find it camped, and xp items, find them camped.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 3:19 PM by Dominus
that pretty much sums up the current state of DAoC. The no-lifers as you call them will always hit 50 first. I remember on Uth when Blizz (Skald) was wrecking gray players in FZ within 3-4 days of launch.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 3:22 PM by relvinian
Dominus wrote: ↑
Fri 30 Nov 2018 3:19 PM
that pretty much sums up the current state of DAoC. The no-lifers as you call them will always hit 50 first. I remember on Uth when Blizz (Skald) was wrecking gray players in FZ within 3-4 days of launch.

Yes but normally base xp has not been increased twice. So the casual player could at least get normal xp rates in normal areas.


Hardcore players will get leveled ASAP. Casual players take more time. So why not just let the hardcore players get there a little bit faster and not penalize the casuals. Because the hardcore players will already have all the cards, may as well make it easier for the casuals.

The base xp increase should be removed. The draw of this server was, is, quality of life and faster xp in a classic daoc world.

Whenever I post or discuss xp I get reamed by experienced hardcore players who scoff at me for how easy things are here. And they say-- what is the problem?

I'm not thinking in terms of elite hardcore players, I am thinking in terms of casuals with jobs and families, who just want to play a game without working the equivalent of a 2nd job to do so.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 3:44 PM by Sepplord
I think what relvinian is trying to say is also that many casuals will not know how to get all the bonuses that make leveling "fine".

I am all for rewarding grouping and having alternative bonuses, but I also agree that they should be tuned ON TOP of the base XP.
Someone wanting to get into the game might not research optimal XP ways, and no-one should end up leveling slower than 15years ago, just because they are not knowledgable about all the ways to get the server specific Boni




the current test also imply a group forming and then XPing for 2hours as a team. Moving spots to idealize tasks.

In live situation people will be leaving/joining groups more fluently. The situation seldomly will be that all group members reach a certain tasklvl at the same time and then move the spot together to a different mob type.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 4:49 PM by relvinian
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 30 Nov 2018 3:44 PM
I think what relvinian is trying to say is also that many casuals will not know how to get all the bonuses that make leveling "fine".

I am all for rewarding grouping and having alternative bonuses, but I also agree that they should be tuned ON TOP of the base XP.
Someone wanting to get into the game might not research optimal XP ways, and no-one should end up leveling slower than 15years ago, just because they are not knowledgable about all the ways to get the server specific Boni




the current test also imply a group forming and then XPing for 2hours as a team. Moving spots to idealize tasks.

In live situation people will be leaving/joining groups more fluently. The situation seldomly will be that all group members reach a certain tasklvl at the same time and then move the spot together to a different mob type.

I agree with what you are saying about casuals not knowing. But that is not what I'm saying, you are making an additional point. Those who know will exploit this system and those who don't will lose out on the base xp which has been increased.

Good point!


Let me add another point. It isn't just hours /played to 50 but days /played to 50 which also matters. If you get to 50 in 2 days fine. If you get to 50 in 2 months fine. But the one getting to 50 58 days earlier will be realm rank 7 and temped before he encounters the casual. NOTHING can stop the hardcore. So let them go. And help the casuals.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 5:27 PM by gruenesschaf
I really don't see what you're arguing for. The definition of a casual is that he plays less than a hardcore person, who is hurt the most by the way the tasks work, those that play a lot or those that play only an hour or two on a day?

Due to the task system the first 2 hours of playtime each day are a lot faster than what it should be, for the next hour or two it's still noticeably increased and after some point it gets close to the normal level.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:02 PM by Uthred
Or to say it totally stupid: The less you play the more XP you get per mob. If that isnt casual friendly and a nerf to 24/7 players, then i guess we will never agree on anything.

Just read and try to understand what all the xp-tests did show: Get a grp, meet new people or play together with old friends and you will be lvl 50 in no time, even with a non-perfect setup. But if you want to play on your own, if you dont want to play with other people in an MMORPG, if you choose to level a class solo that is hard to solo, if you refuse to use all those bonuses that we build in, then you will need way more time.

It is not about being a casual player or 24/7 nolifer. It is just your own decision.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:03 PM by relvinian
So increasing base xp is a good idea?
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:07 PM by gruenesschaf
No single part on its own matters, all that matters is the effective time to 50. If we quadruple the base xp and double the mob xp and add something called tasks the net result is likely the same. If we make it so you always need 1000 xp per level but adjust the xp per mob accordingly it doesn't matter.

Is giving lots of bonuses and then increasing the base xp something that appears to make sense at first glance? No. But adding desired bonuses to reward a desired behavior makes sense and not having 50s in 4 hours makes sense. It just makes no sense to point at a single part of the xp system and ignore all the rest, it's all working as a single unit.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:12 PM by relvinian
I have three counter arguments:

1. This is an empty server so you can get the xp items and camps without issue. On live many of those bonuses won't be as available.

2. No matter what you do, hardcore xpers will get there first. So let them. But casuals may be penalized. Ever go to a camp at 35 with a 50 necro camping it? Ever try and solo with a 50 inf shoving his dirk up your posterior?

3. Will a single player quit this server if you roll back those xp nerfs? Will a single player quit this server if you leave them in?

And if no single part matters then pls put base xp back to normal and adjust accordingly.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:44 PM by gruenesschaf
What would be the point in adjusting the base xp and adjusting all the bonuses again? The end result would be the same just with lower numbers.

People that play a long time are penalized the most followed by solos, people that only play a couple hours per session and group are the ones that benefit the most. If, despite our tests, it turns out that the common way to level to 50 is slower than 48 hours it will be adjusted.

This is not intended as an i50 server, from the start we said 48 hours played is our goal and as this is an mmo you are supposed to be social / group for the best experience. If you refuse to group while having lots of time on your hand and thereby don't take advantage of the tasks that specifically support those with limited time (which should be the primary reason to not group as building a group can take a while) and don't do the xp items, for whatever reason, you will have a bad time and that's fine.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:45 PM by garrith
The casual person who plays for 1-2 hours at most per day will have a harder time logging in and finding a group and getting the xp rate you describe. If they spend 20 minutes finding a group, that's 20 minutes removed from 60 or 120, or 15-30% less xp than you modeled for. You logged in and started with 8 within minutes because you could. You went to empty xp spots with max camp bonus. You had max group bonus. Your data and results are flawed from 10-50%.

Additionally, please do not nerf gold. I don't craft. I don't want to craft. I don't want to spend hours upon hours farming for things to then sell those things so that I can get gear for RvR. If anything, INCREASE gold so that we can get to 50, and pay people for crafting and get to RvR.

Ugh, it's like you're not listening.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:54 PM by gruenesschaf
Your absolutely right Garrith, sorry, I didn't know inflation doesn't exist, we should give everyone 10p on creation so that nobody has to farm gold.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:59 PM by Doiri
garrith wrote: ↑
Fri 30 Nov 2018 6:45 PM
Additionally, please do not nerf gold. I don't craft. I don't want to craft. I don't want to spend hours upon hours farming for things to then sell those things so that I can get gear for RvR. If anything, INCREASE gold so that we can get to 50, and pay people for crafting and get to RvR.

Ugh, it's like you're not listening.

i50
i1000platin
iRR12
iEverything

this way, nobody will even have to spend a minute on this game, isn't that great
Fri 30 Nov 2018 7:06 PM by relvinian
Did we jump the shark here?

I don't care how you do it. But why not give a little more love to solos and casuals then.

Eggs don't seem to be all that useful. Maybe double the number of eggs which drop and call it good.

The i50 argument and the 10 plat argument aren't going to help casuals and solos.

And servers do not thrive based on how well they accommodate hardcores and vets.

They thrive by allowing people to play the game they want to play or have time to play.

If you double eggs aoe dots will cap faster which is not a big deal but solo infs will worship you.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 8:37 PM by Kralin
For gods sake, Relvinian, you clearly don't understand the role of a "casual" and have built straw mans in your constant, paragraph-absent posts. This is an MMO and is meant to be played with other people. Groups are the ideal way to play DAOC, but if you won't participate in them and want to play solo and get to 50 (perhaps only to die solo in RvR), then you should have to deal with the penalties that go along with that solo play style. Casual players can be group players and should have no problem joining a group for a couple hours. With /train it makes casual groups stay together. Communication (talking amongst each other) allows you to decide whether or not to move to a new camp which takes minutes on this server with the easy teleporting and bindstones.

Additionally, casuals can try to meet like-minded players. Make some friends in-game and join a casual-friendly guild that doesn't mind if you go afk or have to bounce in and out of groups on a moment's notice. Definitely don't roll a group class that's unfriendly to soloing, and then go solo expecting to get the same experience you would in a group.

If a casual player refuses to group and refuses to take advantage of the bonuses and tasks available, and THAT makes a casual to quit the server...then there's no hope for that person in this MMO. The time to 50 is extremely fast compared to other shards. It's even easy if you take advantage of the many ways to solo XP in this silly video game. You know the ways -- you just don't want to help yourself and you think of the worst-case scenarios.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 11:29 PM by Kaziera
I would even argue that the amount of PvE is too low. For me its a healthy mix of solo pve for relaxation, group pve to socialize and Grp RvR to get some competitive Kicks. This balance IMO is heavily skewed towards the latter. Yet i dont QQ on evry thread that is even remotely about game time or any PvE balance mechanic,


Or as one of my colleagues would say: "Auf mehrfachen Wunsch eines einzelnen machen wir das jetzt so"

Translated from german this means:

We are doing this because of the multiple whishes of a single person.

That person would be you Relvinian. I realy hope the Devs dont value post count over content.

Can we please let this be the tread again about Uthreds efforts to test the new PvE content? And not another Relvinian QQ thread? Thanks.
Fri 30 Nov 2018 11:50 PM by relvinian
Why do people think im too lazy to xp?

I make suggestions like this for higher server population.

That is the beginning and the end.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 9:41 AM by Kaziera
No man, things that you like at some point may be over, and thats life.

Instead you poison your own experience with the fear, it may be over at some point ad criple yourself by not moving beyond that.

Playing daoc is great, but when you all the time are stuck and dont start enjoying, you spread so much negativity and toxicity, even people around you get anxious. So you become a reason for others not to enjoy and therefore quit.

Just stop dwelling in your fear and start enjoying. Ty.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 11:35 AM by gruenesschaf
relvinian wrote: ↑
Fri 30 Nov 2018 11:50 PM
Why do people think im too lazy to xp?

I make suggestions like this for higher server population.

That is the beginning and the end.

The problem many don't realize is that having incredibly fast xp would have the exact same effect as too slow xp, otherwise there would be successful i50 server. If you can make a 50 in just a couple hours you have zero attachment there, which on first glance should be fine for those that just want to rvr but apparently it's not. We have no intentions of making it incredibly slow for the common case, nor do we want to make it insanely fast for the common case, 48 hours for that should be a good middle ground.
This obviously means there will be deviations in both ways and we think it's acceptable and also unavoidable that a perfect 8 man will be faster than that and it's also acceptable and unavoidable that someone who insists on soloing will be slower than this.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 12:57 PM by Enyore
Please do not nerf/change the XP and PvE content just because some loud-mouths keeps shouting that everyone is only in it for the RvR and want to solo at that too.
I think making it "too easy" is dangerous as your community will reflect this and be much less loyal. It will result in an unstable population where people will be in and out of the server at a fast pace as they do not have to commit to it. I think this also makes a server more vulnerable to external factors such as a new shard or new stuff on live etc that can instantly drop the population.

Your core players, the loyal daoc fan base, comes to a server because of the experience as a whole and daoc is a social experience where you alone are (and have always been) shit. Only with a network and connections, be it friends or a good guild, have you been able to elevate yourself and be something. This is what daoc is all about.

Please keep it as it is - you are right in the middle between too slow and too fast and this is where you have to be.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 1:59 PM by Takii
Don't worry Relvinian I'm sure if you put even 50% of the effort and time you spend posting literally the same thing over and over in every xp related thread towards actually playing the game, you'll be 50 in no time.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 2:09 PM by gruenesschaf
While relvinian is pretty insistent that something is wrong where we disagree, that's fine and no reason to harass him about it, xp is a very important topic and it's somewhat difficult to get it right as everyone has a different meaning for what is right.

The argument that solo xp might be too low could very well be valid, reversing the base xp change would however not be an appropriate response as you thereby just create issues in the parts that are fine. The question basically is: do we want to make solo xp better, if yes the obvious answer are eggs as those are strictly available when solo and also you get only a limited amount of them per hour, so the perfect candidate to adjust solo xp only. The only issue with making solo xp better might be that some people are then less likely to "group with noobs", which is undesirable.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 2:23 PM by Jabstar
In my opinion its in a sweetspot. There's good incentive to group and as solo you're still getting good xp, albeit slower (as it should be) then grouped.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 2:24 PM by relvinian
Sometimes you need that one squeaky voice that says -- hey in this movie waterworld, thousands of years after the end of the world, why do the bad guys call themselves smokers and all smoke Marlboro reds? No kidding, that was in waterworld. Nobody told poor Kevin Costner he was a moron.

And you do need leaders who listen to more than one voice and who have a sense of fair play. Which the devs here clearly do as they listen and respond to threads.

I think the base argument is that solo xp is a little slow and I think a good fix would be to increase eggs that drop.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 6:40 PM by cortexqc
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Dec 2018 2:09 PM
While relvinian is pretty insistent that something is wrong where we disagree, that's fine and no reason to harass him about it, xp is a very important topic and it's somewhat difficult to get it right as everyone has a different meaning for what is right.

The argument that solo xp might be too low could very well be valid, reversing the base xp change would however not be an appropriate response as you thereby just create issues in the parts that are fine. The question basically is: do we want to make solo xp better, if yes the obvious answer are eggs as those are strictly available when solo and also you get only a limited amount of them per hour, so the perfect candidate to adjust solo xp only. The only issue with making solo xp better might be that some people are then less likely to "group with noobs", which is undesirable.

yes good solution : boost eggs + limit per hour to avoid PVE machine aoe classes to fly to fast over leveling !
Sat 1 Dec 2018 6:41 PM by gruenesschaf
There is already a limit for eggs in place, every hour you can only get eggs 100 times (not 100 eggs but literally receive eggs 100 times)
Sat 1 Dec 2018 7:17 PM by cortexqc
Thx gruenesschaf
Ok so it's like 100kills limit per hours??
if it's correct it's more valuable to kill 100 oranges than 100 blue if you are able to kill 100 orange in 1 hour.
this y not a problem just want to know it to select monsters/camps mob level vs time to kill per hour when not finding group
Sat 1 Dec 2018 7:40 PM by relvinian
After 30 not much impact on xp comes from eggs. Try doubling them. You get to the cap faster but then you hit the cap.
Sat 1 Dec 2018 10:51 PM by Beepbop
Alright! I just read everything that was said and I feel forced to interfere.

I wanted to do some tests about solo grinding since I'm used to grind alone.

The main issue about this testing is that the server is empty, every single spot is free and camp bonus fresh so I decided to put me a handicap. That's why I tried to stay as long as I could in SI zones, doing the least xp items quest possible. By doing that, I avoided popular spots/maps to "stimulate a real grinding experience" like Cornwall/Lyon/Dungeons or risky zones like the whole FZ. Oh yeah, playing on Albion btw

Playing only in SI zones forced me to travel a bit cause I didn't freakin know a single spot, I may walked a bit for nothing just to discover cool spots or whatever, something that a random casual could do in this situation. The only regrettable thing I noticed about that is inequality of some mobs : sometimes, you'll face a caster-like with insta insane DD, sometimes just a regular mob who's doing nothing or some melee-like with few styles which is more than ok.

So I did a paladin, literally a king in PvE but with some difficulties to chain really fast.
Atm, my character is lvl 28 with less than 9 hours of /played and I did it in 2 days (for killtasks etc). I did maybe 1 xp items quest and not at 100%. (maybe turned 6/7 items instead of 10)
At the very beginning, I did a first annyoing encounter : RNG. I don't really know how it is really working but I wanted to do a standard pally 1h crush/shield and I really. Really struggled to find just 1 crush weapon until lvl 8. Could be frustrating for people to just hit with a poor thrust weapon without any styles as a melee Highlander but, I guess I wasnt that lucky.

Progression through levels and spots was really sweet, specially in SI zones. A lot of differents types of mobs (you can barely hit 6-7 differents kill tasks just by following the main road from Gothwaite to AC) Spots are really huge, respawing is super fast so, no big deal to say about that. The grinding feels really good, I mean play your character from 1 to 50 feels great with RoG items, you feel super strong very very early til the end.

But let's speak about the devil, I don't think eggs are really a big issue. I found em pretty good tbh.
At the very beginning, eggs are decent because basic grinding by killing stuff is fast and you're killing fast aswell. Like really fast. But more ding, more it slows and eggs are just pointless.
I don't know how eggs really work but I think the ratio per egg is decent til 20. After that, eggs are just a lil complement when you hit a weird/tricky level range to find a better spot.
It could be a bad thing but it is not since xp items are taking over and that is a real issue for grinding, maybe a unbalance.
As I said, I'm playing on Albion right now and xp items til lvl 40, profitables/viables xp items are not doable alone, instead of Hibernia/Midgard and for me, it's a bigger problem than eggs.

Overall and because of many changes about experience, I think duoing is one of the best way to ding 50 super fast since eggs aren't that good at a certain lvl. Eggs are better than nothing, it's just a lil complement when you're soloing than a real thing. From 1 to 28, eggs may be saved me 30/40 minuts of grinding. It's good for early levels but more you progress, less eggs become effective. Xp items are good but it depends your current realm which is a bit unfair to me.

Sorry for bad english btw
Sat 1 Dec 2018 11:35 PM by Dimir
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Dec 2018 10:51 PM
...
As I said, I'm playing on Albion right now and xp items til lvl 40, profitables/viables xp items are not doable alone, instead of Hibernia/Midgard and for me, it's a bigger problem than eggs.
...
Xp items are good but it depends your current realm which is a bit unfair to me.

I haven't tested XPing yet, are you saying that on Albion the mobs you have to kill for XP items aren't really doable for a solo character of the appropriate level range, but they are on Mid/Hib? Thanks for your testing and input!
Sat 1 Dec 2018 11:53 PM by relvinian
No xp items are very soloable they just may not be available if camped.

I turned in the following sets:

signet rings, bucca mirror, hen tails, bwgen eye, monk skulls, frog eyes, soul gem, key of lost, and sack of grain. most mobs were yellow or orange when I did them, some blue.

On necro my experience rate is about half of what mr paladin reported using every trick I can think of. I'm at a loss to explain how much faster his reported xp rate is to my own experience.

I went to dungeons. I went to frontier. Maybe I didn't do enough tasks but I generally was working on tasks. I have 50 tinders in my pack. I turned in all those xp items and they were huge, probably without the xp items I would be around lvl 28 with twice the time played he reports. I'm 35 at 22 hours /played.
Sun 2 Dec 2018 1:00 AM by Beepbop
Dimir wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Dec 2018 11:35 PM
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Dec 2018 10:51 PM
...
As I said, I'm playing on Albion right now and xp items til lvl 40, profitables/viables xp items are not doable alone, instead of Hibernia/Midgard and for me, it's a bigger problem than eggs.
...
Xp items are good but it depends your current realm which is a bit unfair to me.

I haven't tested XPing yet, are you saying that on Albion the mobs you have to kill for XP items aren't really doable for a solo character of the appropriate level range, but they are on Mid/Hib? Thanks for your testing and input!

Yes and yes. I did it at the very start of the beta on Mid and Hib. Hib was the faster, Mid the easier. Albion is really hard for xp items and when you're able to do em alone properly, they lose a lot of their value but I guess we have cabbies at least ?

Anyway, this issue only concerns xp items below lvl 30'ish, after this, xp items are quite similar to Mid and Hib. Just my personal observation and my feelings.

relvinian wrote: I went to dungeons. I went to frontier. Maybe I didn't do enough tasks but I generally was working on tasks. I have 50 tinders in my pack. I turned in all those xp items and they were huge, probably without the xp items I would be around lvl 28 with twice the time played he reports. I'm 35 at 22 hours /played.

Tbh I choosed to play more with kill tasks, it helps a lot in fact, saving a lot of time. I don't know where did you exactly grind but in SI zones, there are a lot of diff types of mobs, so as I said, you can basically chain em pretty fast. Specially in SI zones AND for Albion. It's more "homogeneous" if I can say this like that, on Mid and Hib's SI zones. I think you lost a lot of time by doing a classic grinding phase by killing things. Kill tasks make things faster if you can/want to play with em.
But after all these changes about xp rate and things, I'm gonna retry on Hib and Mid just to make sure if xp items are still easy/doable as what I knew about it.
relvinian wrote: mr paladin

love that btw ;p
Sun 2 Dec 2018 2:51 AM by Sepplord
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Dec 2018 10:51 PM
Yes and yes. I did it at the very start of the beta



just to make sure....the report about leveling time in alb was done recently? or also done some time ago?
Sun 2 Dec 2018 3:18 AM by Beepbop
I saw a lot of ppl complaining in /advice back in the days but didnt see a single post about that. Tbh that is not a big deal cause 1 - 30 is pretty fast tho but in compare to Midgard and Hib, Albion was the hardest realm to progress through xp items quests alone until 30/31 meanwhile on Midgard, you can stomp everything from lvl 20/21 to 50 just by killing yellow con. Just my personal experience/feelings btw, probably a lot of people do not agree with me.
Sun 2 Dec 2018 2:03 PM by relvinian
my level test is current and ongoing after the 2 base xp increases.

I'm concluding my xp test I don't need any more eye strain or carpal tunnel at this time.


I will wait for the movie.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 11:53 AM by relvinian
How do xp items work?

Right now I can go turn in 4 sets in a row, on live exactly how will it work?

Also, I'm finding at lvl 38, I turned in another 4 sets just now lizard sinew, fell creature teeth, giant boor claw, and dunter head.

That seems to be the single most effective way to solo. How many xp item mobs will be spawning? Will it be dynamic where more and more spawn if more and more players are at the camp or will it be a finite resource with 2 50 necros camping every single xp item?

BTW Eggs now are nothing. You can xp all morning and turn in eggs and they are nothing. The personal tasks and the xp items are much more valuable.

So increasing eggs to help solo, I mean 5x the amount of eggs dropping? At least 3x.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 12:22 PM by Kaziera
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1054

First sticky in this pve forum
Mon 3 Dec 2018 1:28 PM by relvinian
Kaziera wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 12:22 PM
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1054

First sticky in this pve forum

I know all about xp items and using them. My question is how were they changed.

Something about having to level between turning in sets or something.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 3:18 PM by Uthred
You can only turn in a max of 10 items per level. Basically from lvl 35/40+ you can do 5 bubs via xp items and 5 bubs via "regular" xping. At lower levels, 10 items should/can give more than 1 level per set (10 items). Depends at which level you are turning them in.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:19 PM by relvinian
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 3:18 PM
You can only turn in a max of 10 items per level. Basically from lvl 35/40+ you can do 5 bubs via xp items and 5 bubs via "regular" xping. At lower levels, 10 items should/can give more than 1 level per set (10 items). Depends at which level you are turning them in.

That change does not seem to be in effect yet.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:23 PM by Beepbop
Agreeing, I can just turn many different sets of 10 items as much as I want per level.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:36 PM by Kaziera
well, at minimum lvl of course. Use lvl 34-XX items at lvl 34 and so on. Items give a fixed value of XP, not a % base of your xp needed for next lvl
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:42 PM by Uthred
Yes, thats not in yet. That is correct.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 4:59 PM by Beepbop
But I don't get it, atm i'm lvl 44,5 in less than 17 hours, I'm going probably hit 50 in 20/21 hours depends on drop rate of xp items.
If I cannot spam kill tasks as a solo player, I'm going to be hard penalized compared to fg/smallmen. Specially if i'm not playing a AoE farming class. 20 hours seems to be fair to end the leveling phase to do some real things, like RvR, farming, HL PvE and stuff, in any other MMO you'll hit the max level in this time lapse even less for some of em.

Everything seems balanced to me atm, between kill tasks, eggs and xp items but if you're nerfing xp items that much, something will be missing for everyone in grinding phase.

I do believe grinding is smooth atm because you can transit eggs to xp items pretty easily and logically. Kill tasks adding a significant added value and give you a real feeling of progress through levels. But with such a change on xp items, leveling will may become unpleasant as hell.

Not a whining post but why such a nerf ?
Mon 3 Dec 2018 5:13 PM by Uthred
Because people could "buy" themselfes level 50 just with XP items, when there is no limit on turning them in. Our intention is that XP items are helpful and will reduce the time to level up, especially when you are solo or cant find a grp.

But we dont want people to just buy xp items and hit level 50 without killing a single mob.

Sure, the first round of new chars wouldnt be able to do so, but as soon as you have your first lvl 50 and get some cash to spend, people will most likely stop pveing and try to buy xp items only. We already saw this behaviour during Beta.

The more money people get the less they would xp the "original" way. Casuals and players that would start on this server at some later point would have a huge disadvantage as it would become more difficult to find a grp the longer the server would be live. So we had to change something.

And besides all this, as I said before, XP items should be a help to the players but never be the "only" source to level up. We want people to level up fast and smooth, but we dont want people to "i50" themselfes.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 5:20 PM by Beepbop
Well, may be a stupid question but why don't you make em non-tradable ?
Mon 3 Dec 2018 5:26 PM by Uthred
Because we want people to sell/buy them and we also want them to be farmable for your twinks.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 5:33 PM by Beepbop
I'm really sorry to bother you with questions like that (you prolly saw em a thousand times already) but I still don't get it.
Say if I'm wrong but that is such a huge nerf about xp items, I guess we can agree with that, not at every level ranges but at one point, they'll give less than 5 bb as you said it. People will just not buy/sell high level xp items and just sell low levels ones.

Plus, I guess you still can trade a non-tradable items from your account vault (like feathers) so if you wanna farm em for your twinks, you still can do it.

So basically at the end, you'll just see low xp items (who gives you a whole lvl) in the house market and more than 50% of xp items will become pointless. At least, they'll not be farmed like we all did in the past.

Am I wrong ?

Plus, you're not specially saving time by just using that cause you had to farm em before so, where is the problem ?

Yeah there is one : you can't sell/buy em anymore but let's honest, why would we do that ? It kills literally PvE and grinding if you can sell/buy em, you already saw that.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 6:02 PM by astean
I guess the easiest way to sum this up is:
Most of the folks planning on playing when live launches have very likely played DAOC before - what would you all say....at least 60% - probably higher? 70%?

Point is everyone here has been through the leveling grind be it back in 2001, or on the other freeshards, etc. I would venture to guess most who plan on playing here are not playing here for the pve aspect. Most want to blow through the leveling and get to what this game is all about - which is RVR/PVP/making a difference for your realm. That is where this game really shines

I think the success of this server will be based on how tedious the grind is. What is the problem with making the leveling process a quick one? For that small % of people who want to really focus on pve give them an option to slow down the exp gains.

Let's face it, most are likely here to get to 50 and really start playing the game which is rvr.

Please, make the leveling process a simple/quick journey to 50.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 6:18 PM by Beepbop
The thing is PvE doesnt stop when you hit 50. After that, you'll need to jump into raids. Into groups to kill world bosses.

Ikr DAOC is based on groups but let's be honest real quick, no one will group a champion or a sneak during leveling phase even for a 5% xp bonus. Because you need a strong group and inviting em will drown your group to the ground. So what ? You'll just see thousands ppl afking and waiting to be PL'd like Uthgard.

With such a nerf, people will depend on others to hit 50 which is can be frustrating. Specially for casuals.

By extending grinding phase, you'll force people to stay more in juicy spots and monopolized em which is bad for PvE and grinding. Xp items are cool because there are many, you can basically do your proper path without bothering people.

This idea may just be ignored but I'm conviced that putting xp items non-tradable is good for everyone ; it stops abuses and forces people to farm em by their own.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 6:24 PM by relvinian
I turned in 13 sets of xp items if I could only turn in half of them I would be a lot lower than I am now.

I'm 1 day 2 hours played on my sight necro at lvl 39

Not too shabby. I have been playing for about a week.

The lower level ones often gave me a level, at this point its half a level so it would be half a level, grind half a level, ding, grind, etc. Which isn't horrible, they certainly help a lot.

Without half the xp items then I would be probably around 33 in 26 hours. Without access to good camps in frontier or dungeons, would say around 30.

The whole xp experiment was on an empty server
Mon 3 Dec 2018 7:00 PM by Nesnahoj
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 6:18 PM
The thing is PvE doesnt stop when you hit 50. After that, you'll need to jump into raids. Into groups to kill world bosses.

Ikr DAOC is based on groups but let's be honest real quick, no one will group a champion or a sneak during leveling phase even for a 5% xp bonus. Because you need a strong group and inviting em will drown your group to the ground. So what ? You'll just see thousands ppl afking and waiting to be PL'd like Uthgard.

With such a nerf, people will depend on others to hit 50 which is can be frustrating. Specially for casuals.

By extending grinding phase, you'll force people to stay more in juicy spots and monopolized em which is bad for PvE and grinding. Xp items are cool because there are many, you can basically do your proper path without bothering people.

This idea may just be ignored but I'm conviced that putting xp items non-tradable is good for everyone ; it stops abuses and forces people to farm em by their own.

I get where you're coming from but I'm gonna have to disagree, I ran with a lot of non-optimal groups in beta, solely for the friendly bonus. BA bone dancer, crit blades, whatever. Any class played and I believe that will be par for the course come launch.
Mon 3 Dec 2018 7:20 PM by Beepbop
Nesnahoj wrote:
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Dec 2018 6:18 PM
The thing is PvE doesnt stop when you hit 50. After that, you'll need to jump into raids. Into groups to kill world bosses.

Ikr DAOC is based on groups but let's be honest real quick, no one will group a champion or a sneak during leveling phase even for a 5% xp bonus. Because you need a strong group and inviting em will drown your group to the ground. So what ? You'll just see thousands ppl afking and waiting to be PL'd like Uthgard.

With such a nerf, people will depend on others to hit 50 which is can be frustrating. Specially for casuals.

By extending grinding phase, you'll force people to stay more in juicy spots and monopolized em which is bad for PvE and grinding. Xp items are cool because there are many, you can basically do your proper path without bothering people.

This idea may just be ignored but I'm conviced that putting xp items non-tradable is good for everyone ; it stops abuses and forces people to farm em by their own.

I get where you're coming from but I'm gonna have to disagree, I ran with a lot of non-optimal groups in beta, solely for the friendly bonus. BA bone dancer, crit blades, whatever. Any class played and I believe that will be par for the course come launch.

Usually, you invite these people because you have no choice/no one else to invite.

I perfectly see what you did there, when I'm playing in groups I try as much as I can to do it aswell but this, is a minority. I played on 3 realms at the beginning of the beta. I can only agree with you, on Mid, people are inviting a lot of people because everything fits quite well. Not in Alb or Hib. But I dare you to invite a non-optimal class in Hib or Alb, specially at high levels. Even at low/average levels, this is really really rare and I needed to pray a lot to get invited cause no one responded but me. I met a loooot of people in this same situation. That is not impossible to get a group as infiltrator but it's hard as hell and you'll need to wait a lot.
Tue 4 Dec 2018 1:10 AM by cortexqc
imo i think xp item need to be non tradable even if it's cool for my reroll to have xp item farmed by 50 char.
if xp item tradable most spot be farmed by 50 after release and Casual/ player leveling cannot acces them.
there is much other things to do to farm gold.

Maybe trade protection need to be set for the first 2 or 3 month

or at least put limit like eggs "10 xp items loot (per type) max (per week)" this way one spot can't be farmed hours by sames players.
if someone want to farm xp item for gold or for subchar he need to change spots, 10xp items type per week is enough to farm gold/stack item for alt !
there is like 50 items type farmer have the choice and time to change spot.

Someone leveling respecting the rules you put in place to have optimal xp taking time to change spot and try to farm his xp items need to acces spots.

so like you force player to change spot with personnal task bigger each level when leveling 1/50 put the same kind of limit on xp items farming to avoid 50 farming abuse !
Tue 4 Dec 2018 1:19 AM by relvinian
Never underestimate how mercenary and hardcore daoc players can be. They will surprise you.

you can also call it love of the game or inventive.


And the stress test is going to tell us something about the numbers. I'm gonna guess 2k plus on live. 1500+ on stress test
Tue 4 Dec 2018 3:30 AM by Sepplord
i have two main questions because I keep seeing you guys mentioning "acmes to camps":


how is the average casual even expected to know where to find the XP items?

And why is it needed to go back to trainer once per level to turn in XP-Items, when /train was implemented to avoid exactly that hassle
Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:23 AM by cortexqc
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 3:30 AM
i have two main questions because I keep seeing you guys mentioning "acmes to camps":


how is the average casual even expected to know where to find the XP items?

And why is it needed to go back to trainer once per level to turn in XP-Items, when /train was implemented to avoid exactly that hassle

yes you have tow good point, why is needed to comeback to a trainer to use eggs... dev have the answer but maybe cause eggs are kind of collection task items, i never see usable xp items in daoc... but maybe they can do it usable like pots... (a suggestion to make in suggestion forum)

for the other point about new player don't know about xp items collections.
it's a social game. we are not in 2001 now much player know the game.
pretty sure much old player are like me and one of their first words when group is Hi you are new? or you are a old daoc player? what server!!?
Personnally when i see group mate is new player casual i always give tips to where xp/how xp help about game mechanics or about his class etc.

and on phoenix there is a collection task page on wiki with monster and loc on comments.
+ there is a post about that 'HIB XP Item List by Zone" with google docs items and loc but pretty sure someone is going to do a sticky post (guide of the perfect new player)
+ and all player playing all mmo look about UI and add on and now there is customs interface with all xp items and locs integrated.(i play with that)
so i'm pretty sure xp items be really popular on release, by old or new player and.... farmers...
Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:28 AM by Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 3:30 AM
i have two main questions because I keep seeing you guys mentioning "acmes to camps":


how is the average casual even expected to know where to find the XP items?

And why is it needed to go back to trainer once per level to turn in XP-Items, when /train was implemented to avoid exactly that hassle



That recently crossed my mind as well. Why?
Tue 4 Dec 2018 2:28 PM by relvinian
You don't have to go back once a level to turn in eggs, you can hold on to them. They stack a lot.

Then go back at some convenient time. Mostly they are useful at low levels.

There is a chart stickied in each realms forum which lists where all the xp items are and gives a loc in each

/faceloc the numbers and you can head to the camp.

BTW, when you changed the base xp 2x, did you increase eggs xp or is that another reason why they seem less effective?
Tue 4 Dec 2018 6:17 PM by Takii
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 3:30 AM
i have two main questions because I keep seeing you guys mentioning "acmes to camps":


how is the average casual even expected to know where to find the XP items?

And why is it needed to go back to trainer once per level to turn in XP-Items, when /train was implemented to avoid exactly that hassle

This is a 17 year old MMO. It is not the most casual friendly thing in the world and no amount of custom changes will make it so.
Wed 5 Dec 2018 3:07 AM by Sepplord
relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 2:28 PM
You don't have to go back once a level to turn in eggs, you can hold on to them. They stack a lot.

Then go back at some convenient time. Mostly they are useful at low levels.

maybe I misunderstood a few things, but I thought there was a cap of turn ins per level...so to make the most of it, I need to do the turn ins each level, right?

and maybe I need to recheck the spreadsheets, last time I checked there were just a few, definitely not one for each level?
Wed 5 Dec 2018 3:09 AM by Sepplord
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Dec 2018 4:23 AM
+ and all player playing all mmo look about UI and add on and now there is customs interface with all xp items and locs integrated.(i play with that)
so i'm pretty sure xp items be really popular on release, by old or new player and.... farmers...

which UI is that?I know about the thread with working UIs but I don't know which one I am looking for. Thanks for that tip
Wed 5 Dec 2018 7:18 AM by Uthred
[attachment=0]Unbenannt.JPG[/attachment]

Im not 100% sure, but Bysan and Topi should have that feature too. Just test it. Now is the best time, as we are still in Beta.
Wed 5 Dec 2018 4:08 PM by Sepplord
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Dec 2018 7:18 AM
Unbenannt.JPG

Im not 100% sure, but Bysan and Topi should have that feature too. Just test it. Now is the best time, as we are still in Beta.

Okay thanks, yeah I will be back at home again in a couple of days and then put in some time for UI/etc.

thanks for the heads up and recommendations
Thu 6 Dec 2018 1:07 PM by relvinian
2000 eggs turned in at 40, 40 eggs per yellow, or 50 mobs, got me .3 bubble.

Not much.

Does the xp item reset on half level dings? so you can turn in next set on mid ding or standard ding either one?
Fri 7 Dec 2018 5:21 PM by Beepbop
relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 1:07 PM
2000 eggs turned in at 40, 40 eggs per yellow, or 50 mobs, got me .3 bubble.

Not much.

Does the xp item reset on half level dings? so you can turn in next set on mid ding or standard ding either one?

I'm pretty sure it's just 10 xp items per level, which is a huge nerf for soloers. Almost impossible to compete against groups even with optimized path/solo class.
Fri 7 Dec 2018 5:28 PM by Ceen
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 5:21 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Dec 2018 1:07 PM
2000 eggs turned in at 40, 40 eggs per yellow, or 50 mobs, got me .3 bubble.

Not much.

Does the xp item reset on half level dings? so you can turn in next set on mid ding or standard ding either one?

I'm pretty sure it's just 10 xp items per level, which is a huge nerf for soloers. Almost impossible to compete against groups even with optimized path/solo class.

There was never the intention to let solos be able to compete with grps.
This is sooo stupid.
Fri 7 Dec 2018 6:47 PM by Beepbop
Ceen wrote: There was never the intention to let solos be able to compete with grps.
This is sooo stupid.

And whyyyyyyy ?
Fri 7 Dec 2018 7:01 PM by Uthred
It is an MMO and not a single-player game.

We posted several times why we made which decision and what our intention behind this is. Not going to repeat that again.
Fri 7 Dec 2018 7:29 PM by Beepbop
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 7:01 PM
It is an MMO and not a single-player game.

I'm sorry but that is not a valid argument at all. We're talking about grinding phase and only grinding phase, If you ever played to another MMORPG, you already know the leveling can be passed pretty easily, alone and with smile. I do love grinding, in all games alright ? But most people really hate it, in DAOC, grinding isn't funny at all for someone who did it billion times already. We know right than you want from people to have a sense of accomplishment when you hit 50 but the majority do not care about it.

Heh cmon, several classes wont be invited in groups after a certain level range, will be forced to get PL'd to finally play at 50. So that's what people want ? Powerleveling to allow people to sell almost useless xp items ?

Ikr I can't persuade you on this topic but don't say that, it's almost insulting
Fri 7 Dec 2018 7:57 PM by Kaziera
if you have a guild, you will NEVER have a problem lvling your sneaks. Sorry but if you get social, things get easier. It costs effort to connect to ppl though.

Pick your poison. More time and energy for solo lvling or just more effort to bond with ppl. i chose the latter.
Fri 7 Dec 2018 8:52 PM by relvinian
Eggs were put in to help people solo. You increased base xp costs twice after I-50.

After you increased the base cost of xp two separate times after I-50-- did you increase eggs which drop as well?

I can get about .3 bubbles from killing 50 mobs and .6 bubbles from killing 100 mobs at or around lvl 40.

XP from eggs seems a little light.

That is a specific issue I am now focusing on as I continue to test solo xp.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 1:28 PM by Takii
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 7:29 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 7:01 PM
It is an MMO and not a single-player game.

I'm sorry but that is not a valid argument at all. We're talking about grinding phase and only grinding phase, If you ever played to another MMORPG, you already know the leveling can be passed pretty easily, alone and with smile. I do love grinding, in all games alright ? But most people really hate it, in DAOC, grinding isn't funny at all for someone who did it billion times already. We know right than you want from people to have a sense of accomplishment when you hit 50 but the majority do not care about it.

Heh cmon, several classes wont be invited in groups after a certain level range, will be forced to get PL'd to finally play at 50. So that's what people want ? Powerleveling to allow people to sell almost useless xp items ?

Ikr I can't persuade you on this topic but don't say that, it's almost insulting

More specifically this is an old school MMO server. The focus on grouping is one of the appealing aspects of this game for many people.

You are playing the wrong game if you want a WoW-like leveling experience.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 2:01 PM by relvinian
Mmorpg definition, massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.

Notice the part about large number of players?

Suppose you want to sell ice cream. Do you sell one flavor of ice cream or 31 flavors?

Probably you don't want to sell 1 flavor because if you only have one flavor then maybe some people won't like it. But you don't want to sell 1000 because many of those flavors will spoil without being eaten. But damn well better sell more than one flavor.

So here we are back to the daoc discussion.

Group xp is fine. Solo xp is fine. If you know what is going on and are a vet. If you just login, give it a go, then you might be under the impression that generic xp is not very fast due to the base xp increases. If you leave it this way I would suggest a very good xp guide to explain to new players and motd on login that explains how to maximize xp. I also think based on my actual testing where I am actually leveling 1 to 50 right now after the 2 xp increases that eggs need to be increased.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:16 PM by Kaziera
Id rather have 1 really good icecream than 31 crappy ones.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:37 PM by Takii
That analogy is hilarious because I just listened to an economics podcast where they were discussing research showing that giving people more varieties of a product in a supermarket actually reduced people's desire to buy that particular product at all.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 3:44 PM by relvinian
The analogy is spot on.

Both not enough flavors and too many are bad.

The problem here is binary thinking. Which is a big problem, not only in games, but in the world.

DAOC is an eating machine which requires new players to maintain population.

Vets eat the newbs to increase their rps and status. They need the new flow of blood for the economy. Just in general.

Edit: I removed my toxic although funny flames. On my own. You are welcome.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 4:24 PM by Kaziera
no relvinian, the problem is you beeing so negative, it itself is considerd beeing toxic. you dont attract new players by telling them daoc is a eating machine.

you doing it by telling them the fun parts while not sugarcoating the bad parts. in the end there will be likeminded ppls
Sat 8 Dec 2018 6:21 PM by relvinian
There was a change, in which after everyone could instantly go to level 50, base xp requirements were increased 2x to slow down overly fast xp.

I tested this, again for FREE. I am soloing right now, 1 to 50. Currently I have spent 38 hours of my own time and 12 days, or about 3 hours per day to test the xp changes.


I'm doing this because I like daoc and this is a beta test period and there were changes which need to be tested.

Please feel free to post your own tests of solo xp after this change.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 7:09 PM by Beepbop
Takii wrote: More specifically this is an old school MMO server. The focus on grouping is one of the appealing aspects of this game for many people.

You are playing the wrong game if you want a WoW-like leveling experience.

Yikes, still waiting to play a minst pandaren btw
Sat 8 Dec 2018 7:52 PM by Jabstar
I'm also leveling again since a few days ago. Where those buffs recent?
Level 37 so far in about 16.5 hours. Trying to level efficient. Mind you on a hunter, which is pretty good for leveling.





I think the bonuses to leveling are pretty big.

* Resting takes almost no time
* XP for killing mob types (animal, magical, humanoid etc)
* XP items
* Higher base XP
* stuf i might be missing: EDIT oh yea, EGGS!

I would personally advocate for less stuff, but thats not popular
Sat 8 Dec 2018 8:21 PM by relvinian
Excellent info on the hunter.

Are you turning in xp items and then leveling to your next ding, then turning in the next xp item? Because on live here it will be changed so you can only use one xp item per level, not sure if half levels count for that.

I also assume you have yet to be killed by another player during the entire 16 hours you xpd. I also assume you never fought with a single player for a camp during the entire 16 hours you xpd.

Thx xp item thing mostly becomes an issue later on, lower levels you tend to ding each set.

I'm lvl 44 right now but I turned in 15 or 16 sets of xp and should be lower since I didn't ding between levels. I still don't know how it works, if half levels count for next set.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 10:47 PM by Takii
So why exactly is Relvinian leveling more than twice as slowly as the other two people who have posted their results in this thread?
Sat 8 Dec 2018 10:57 PM by Jabstar
You are correct that the leveling time on this beta is not representative for the time you'll need when the server goes live.
However it is representative for any and every other toon you'll be leveling after your first one

And yes, i'm definately making use of turning in XP items. Haven't heard of changes towards turning those in. Atm you can turn in 10x XP item of 1 type thats all i know, i'll have to look into the changes you're talking about but stil doesn't seem to bad.
Sat 8 Dec 2018 11:48 PM by Doiri
Takii wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Dec 2018 10:47 PM
So why exactly is Relvinian leveling more than twice as slowly as the other two people who have posted their results in this thread?

because he's obsessed with his own idea that xping is slow.
Sun 9 Dec 2018 9:10 AM by Beepbop
Doiri wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Dec 2018 11:48 PM
Takii wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Dec 2018 10:47 PM
So why exactly is Relvinian leveling more than twice as slowly as the other two people who have posted their results in this thread?

because he's obsessed with his own idea that xping is slow.

Before I just start, I apologize and sorry if i'm being offensive.

But you guys are really really annoying, you only read what suits you to discredit ppls feedback about xping.
Recent changes about xp impacted mostly solo grinding and people who actually tested it after these changes are talking about it. Ofc if you don't care about solo grinding, if you have a guild already or whatever you want, you'll find that stupid but people do love solo grinding and please, at least if you don't like it, show some respect.

Of course some changes have been made to suit a particular vision of grinding experience, not gonna judge that. But if you ever played just once in Phoenix, you can clearly see eggs scaling is a bit illegitimate or at least, eggs impact become less effective a bit too quickly.

Regarding eggs, it's tricky because you can't really boost em because AoE farming classes can take a too big advantage from them. The thing is, more you ding, longer you spend time to kill mobs and loot eggs. Kinda frustrating tho
Coupled to a poor scaling for eggs and kill tasks, as a soloer, you just have silly eggs that give you a poor amount of exp proportionally to the time you actually spent to farm them. There are prolly a ton of reasons for that but meh. Xp items are supposed to supplant eggs or at least "complete" them which is a good thing. Xp items are good to add some diversities to your grinding. (searching/traveling/tracking etc and so on)

If Phoenix wanted to prohibit solo players for groups benefits, why adding eggs then ?
Is it possible to people to solo if they want to but I guess and I'm not gonna argue about it because I flooded on this topic already about it, may be a bit too longer. Stupidly long. I agree that soloers shouldnt be as fast as groups but it shouldn't be that long.

I don't know when the xp items nerf will be implemented exactly but if it's done before the shutdown, I'm going to test it again as much as I can cause I'm really curious about the real time it will take you to actually ding 50.

Cheers
Sun 9 Dec 2018 11:52 AM by Kaziera
beebop sorry to say so, but i xped a lot solo just to chill after work. my findings are in absolute contradiction to what he is saying. xp ist really fast. even solo. even too fast for my taste, since i consider xp beeing a major part of the daoc experience.

he is just alone with his "opinion".
Sun 9 Dec 2018 12:15 PM by Jabstar
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Dec 2018 9:10 AM
Doiri wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Dec 2018 11:48 PM
Takii wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Dec 2018 10:47 PM
So why exactly is Relvinian leveling more than twice as slowly as the other two people who have posted their results in this thread?

because he's obsessed with his own idea that xping is slow.

Before I just start, I apologize and sorry if i'm being offensive.

But you guys are really really annoying ...

Cheers

You're not sorry being offensive, if you were you just wouldn't be offensive. How about if you want to make a point you start by not insulting just about everyone. Cool.
It's a good fcking thing that eggs have , lets call it, diminishing returns! How stupid would it be if they kept giving the same % of XP.
Part of an MMO is gradually needing more time to level. This isn't World of Warcraft (just to compare, i played WoW alot myself). Maybe if eggs were the only thing to improve XP gain, but as i and other said before, there's so many other things that improve solo leveing speed, you can figure out what they are, they ve been mentioned.
Sun 9 Dec 2018 12:23 PM by relvinian
Base xp required to attain level is not fast, it is higher than in any other version of daoc. The increased base xp twice to slow down xp because it was too fast for them.

Which is fine. There are many other boosts to xp here which people can take advantage of. But if you don't get those advantages-- after your tasks get high-- kill 75 mobs for u next task-- if the pk wont let you use that camp, etc. Can't find a group, etc. Then the base xp required for each level is higher than in any other version of daoc that was ever made.

This is actually cancelled out by the boosts and then some. The xp here, if you know what you are doing, if you get a group, an optimal group, or can solo and exploit the custom xp changes here-- xp is fine.

I think people who are xping faster than me are mostly doing personal tasks-- kill 25 chickens, 15 ardvarks, 15 chili dogs, get the bonus for dungeon and frontier, whatever.

But if you go kill one mob in lyons on uthgard and one mob in lyons here-- you get less of a percentage of xp required for your level here than you do on uthgard. That is not someone's opinion, that is a fact.

This is what I first noticed when I tried to pl some newbs on my 50 necro as a test in lyons, they said, and I quote-- this xp sucks.

I'm not talking about the end of the world. I'm not criticizing the devs. I think they are awesome and I can't wait to play on this server when it goes live. Hopefully with a huge population of people I can find and donate my rps too while I die horribly to them in pvp.

My suggestions are two fold if they do not wish to modify base xp and just leave that as it is:


1. Increase eggs which drop by double. Right now 50 mobs is .3 and 100 mobs is .6 , I would say either double it or maybe increase it by 50% so if 40 drop, make it 60, or maybe 80. I would try 50% Won't give aoe dotters much of an advantage because there will be a cap in place and they will just hit the cap faster and no more eggs drop for awhile.

2. Make an xp guide for new players showing specific xp changes on the server and on login change the motd to tell people to check out the xp guide.

That is what I'm seeing right now based on my observations which would help.

Also, plz tone down the insults and rhetoric. It isn't necessary and it isn't helpful
Sun 9 Dec 2018 2:00 PM by Jabstar
relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Dec 2018 12:23 PM
2. Make an xp guide for new players showing specific xp changes on the server and on login change the motd to tell people to check out the xp guide.

That is what I'm seeing right now based on my observations which would help.

Also, plz tone down the insults and rhetoric. It isn't necessary and it isn't helpful

http://playphoenix.wiki/ has alot of that information already. It would be a good idea i think to have that link right there when you log into the game. In the servernews window.
Sun 9 Dec 2018 3:37 PM by Dimir
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Dec 2018 9:10 AM
Regarding eggs, it's tricky because you can't really boost em because AoE farming classes can take a too big advantage from them.


I think eggs are capped at how many mobs can drop them for a player per hour, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Mon 10 Dec 2018 4:04 AM by cortexqc
Dimir wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Dec 2018 3:37 PM
Beepbop wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Dec 2018 9:10 AM
Regarding eggs, it's tricky because you can't really boost em because AoE farming classes can take a too big advantage from them.


I think eggs are capped at how many mobs can drop them for a player per hour, so that shouldn't be a problem.

yes that right.

i have tester xp at 36 on phoenix and other server with same class.
basic xp for 10mn no buff no help
2% + 1.5% eggs on phoenix
5% on other server.
even basic xp + egg is only 2/3 xp of old nightmare xp on classic server...
All bonus really killed basic xp...
nerf basic xp is really the baddest change who can be made.
basic xp need to be classic and bonus finetuned.
not nerf basic and add insane bonus...

anyway if you don't want to revert basic xp changes i think xp eggs reward need to be booster by 100% vs actual rate to be aproximatively equal to other classic server.
Mon 10 Dec 2018 8:22 AM by Koljar
iirc the goal concerning exp progression was the 2nd M in MMO. They even encourage you to mix your groups. Which also is what they tested earlier in this thread. That way ppl can even level their stealthers in a reasonable ammount of time. Those eggs are just a bonus. Groups get more and some extra for being diverse...

Now immagine they did the same with RVR - more RPs the more your different classes you have in your group
Mon 10 Dec 2018 2:45 PM by relvinian
What I'm doing now while testing xp is to switch to various personal tasks.

I kill mobs in dungeon then kill different tasks like undead, animals, demons, etc.

Most of my xp comes from tasks and xp items. After I turn in a set of xp items I run off and level to my next ding then I hunt up more xp items.

Actual xp itself is not my focus but rather tasks and xp items, and to a lesser degree eggs.

Now if when things go live I find dungeons camped, frontiers camped, then I will lose some xp speed there. If I cannot find xp items because they are camped I will lose some xp speed there. And If I get faceplanted everytime I go to the frontier by someone's 50 twink I won't be going there.

On top of that, I'm quite experienced on the xp system here. Someone who does not know the system will be at a disadvantage if they try to xp normally and will perhaps get the wrong idea of xp progression. Hopefully players here can give lots of tips to anyone who hasn't been here before.
Mon 10 Dec 2018 3:12 PM by romulus
Hi Relvinian!
I hope that your experiences with solo leveling can form a good basis for helping new players during live. I'm looking forward to Relvinians Guide to Solo and Small Group Leveling.
Mon 10 Dec 2018 3:53 PM by Jabstar
Koljar wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Dec 2018 8:22 AM
Now immagine they did the same with RVR - more RPs the more your different classes you have in your group

Thats not PvE, but i do like that idea ;p
Mon 10 Dec 2018 4:05 PM by relvinian
I'm currently lvl 46 at the bottom of the barrows. Something like 46.6. I turned in my last xp item set and need to ding to 47 to get the ability to turn in my next set (I think) currently the xp item nerf is not live, so I don't know exactly how it will work. My played right now is just almost 2 days /played.


I need to kill 75 mobs to get my next dungeon task and, I dunno 50 or whatever undead to get my next task. So, it will be awhile for me to get my next .5 for completing a task. The smartest thing I could do, other than logging out, would be to teleport out of the dungeon and go to the frontier and complete a task there and look for other tasks to complete out there so I could get the bonus for frontier, bonus for completing sets like playing the board game risk.

But assuming I do not do that but sit in the bottom of the barrows grinding away on mega terrors, which are orange to me, the xp is absolutely horrible. The xp part of xp is not good at all. The completing tasks parts is excellent.

So if you know what you are doing it is way better than standard daoc but if you don't know what you are doing it is sort of grindy. The actual xp portion is slower here than somewhere else. I would go so far as to say the actual xp part almost doesn't matter solo. Just do tasks, do xp items, and turn in eggs, who cares about xp? At least after 40.
Mon 10 Dec 2018 4:46 PM by Kwall0311
Id rather have them change the xp items to non tradeable other than not turning in more than one stack per level. If youre farming for the items, you should be able to use them. Its not totally game breaking to be able to turn in your own items that you spent time farming for, both within a reasonable amount of time.

No idea why this was thought of to be a good idea, instead of making them non tradeable.
Mon 10 Dec 2018 9:48 PM by Jabstar
relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Dec 2018 4:05 PM
I'm currently lvl 46 at the bottom of the barrows. Something like 46.6. I turned in my last xp item set and need to ding to 47 to get the ability to turn in my next set (I think) currently the xp item nerf is not live, so I don't know exactly how it will work. My played right now is just almost 2 days /played.


I need to kill 75 mobs to get my next dungeon task and, I dunno 50 or whatever undead to get my next task. So, it will be awhile for me to get my next .5 for completing a task. The smartest thing I could do, other than logging out, would be to teleport out of the dungeon and go to the frontier and complete a task there and look for other tasks to complete out there so I could get the bonus for frontier, bonus for completing sets like playing the board game risk.

But assuming I do not do that but sit in the bottom of the barrows grinding away on mega terrors, which are orange to me, the xp is absolutely horrible. The xp part of xp is not good at all. The completing tasks parts is excellent.

So if you know what you are doing it is way better than standard daoc but if you don't know what you are doing it is sort of grindy. The actual xp portion is slower here than somewhere else. I would go so far as to say the actual xp part almost doesn't matter solo. Just do tasks, do xp items, and turn in eggs, who cares about xp? At least after 40.

Nothing wrong with not knowing everything. People that start playing when the server goes live will learn that stuff very fast. I'm leveling a hib character a bit now, for change of scenery :>
Thu 13 Dec 2018 2:58 AM by Gnarrg
I haven't actually leveled much on Phoenix, among the people who would really appreciate a some hints and guides on how to best level on this server, both solo and in groups. Familiar with Uthgard only.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 4:38 AM by cortexqc
relvinian wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Dec 2018 4:05 PM
But assuming I do not do that but sit in the bottom of the barrows grinding away on mega terrors, which are orange to me, the xp is absolutely horrible. The xp part of xp is not good at all. The completing tasks parts is excellent.

So if you know what you are doing it is way better than standard daoc but if you don't know what you are doing it is sort of grindy. The actual xp portion is slower here than somewhere else. I would go so far as to say the actual xp part almost doesn't matter solo. Just do tasks, do xp items, and turn in eggs, who cares about xp? At least after 40.

on phoenix standard basic xp is less faster than half original server speed.
on the other side we can say without doubt global xp is really faster than original cause of all bonus task and help of xp items.
The real issue is not the leveling time if you know how to find monster for your level with the type of your pve task and know items location.
the real issue is the old xp grindind is not an option cause xp basic is to bad. powerlevel by friend too for same reason.
On phoenix "pve task and xp items" initialy bonus are now the main xp source and are mandatory if you are solo and don't want to transform your mouse in new falcon heavy rocket ...

so yes it's not dramatic and yes pve task and xp items need to be the fastest "solo" way to level but i really think something need to be tuned to don't have so big difference between classic grind and pve task+items and make solo grinding/pl at least viable...
Thu 13 Dec 2018 4:07 PM by relvinian
OK, my level to 50 solo is complete on my necro.

It too me a /played which is ingame time of 2 days, 13 hours to get to level 50. I started 11-26-18 and finished today so it was 17 days or about 3 1/2 hours per day for 17 days.


I probably did some things wrong and I probably turned in too many xp items. I spent some time actually xping and not hunting for tasks. I probably screwed around a little as well. But I think overall it is a fair representation as I think the extra xp items turned in probably balanced out my screwing around, inefficiency, or other lack of gaming prowess.


My overall take away for the xp process is that actual xp almost doesn't matter. Increase xp, don't increase xp, who cares? The actual xp mostly came from completing tasks and turning in xp items. Grinding away at one camp is a total fail and after 40 you darn sure don't want to do that.

I do think that the overall progress, even solo, more or less seems right. But I personally don't think it would hurt the server AT ALL to rollback the two base xp increases. I don't think a single person would say, "Wow, I leveled to 50 too fast so I'm not going to play." I do however think it is possible that someone might have a bad impression of the base xp rate and not understand the bonuses and say, "wow this is slow." And maybe they might not play.

I also know that I was never in competition with another player at any time when I was testing xp. I was never killed by another player. I never ran into a 50 necro taking the entire camp. I was never /ruded by another group while trying to xp. I had the best camp bonuses. Etc, etc, etc.


To sum up my OPINION as to what should be done to xp it is something like this:

1. Make a guide to efficient xp and post it, along with a motd link on login.

2. Roll back the base xp changes.

3. Increase egg drops per kill by 50% or 100% and leave the egg caps in.


Putting all those things in will make the most friendly xp environment possible and will result in not one single player quitting because it is too slow.

I also believe making those changes will result in the highest player population, certainly much higher than leaving them in.

However, even if not one single thing was changed I think the xp is "OK", but definitely you want to put out an xp guide which emphasizes what actually works here, which is tasks and xp items.

And do not grind away on one mob, particularly after 40, as that is the least efficient way to xp and is actually slower than other daoc servers.


I cannot really comment on group xp. But I imagine that an optimal group also progresses at a good pace here, now. Assuming that they move camp to camp and have the right mix. The group bonus for each different class probably makes up for the 2 base xp increases and is favorable to other daoc servers for xp rate.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 4:12 PM by Kwall0311
You lost me at "too many xp items" that you may have turned in.

Again i totally disagree with that change. Make them non tradeable. You should be able to solo farm xp items and use however many. Its not like youre buying your way to 50.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 4:15 PM by relvinian
I turned in more than 15 xp items.

I don't think one set per level is bad as it will decrease xp item farming and fighting, but they are still quite useful.

But im not sure if its mini ding and u can use or once per level period.
Thu 13 Dec 2018 10:36 PM by jenskamen
Ive just read all here and on the other xp thread.

your ~60h to max level as solo seemed okayish i belive but like you said you have to factor in that this was on an empty server with no competition and full camp bonus. also not hardcore grinding but you did what? 3h a day? so for me (i take a week vacation when the server launches) it will be alot slower.
also the item turn ins will be less.
i guess overall on launch i hopefully will get groups even as a nightshade but if not 60h would be fine i guess but with competition on xp items, spots etc it will be rough.

and for an XP guide i would really love to see one if anyone that has the knowledge and time to write it up.

see you on launch!
Thu 13 Dec 2018 10:49 PM by cortexqc
jenskamen wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Dec 2018 10:36 PM
Ive just read all here and on the other xp thread.

your ~60h to max level as solo seemed okayish i belive but like you said you have to factor in that this was on an empty server with no competition and full camp bonus. also not hardcore grinding but you did what? 3h a day? so for me (i take a week vacation when the server launches) it will be alot slower.
also the item turn ins will be less.
i guess overall on launch i hopefully will get groups even as a nightshade but if not 60h would be fine i guess but with competition on xp items, spots etc it will be rough.

and for an XP guide i would really love to see one if anyone that has the knowledge and time to write it up.

see you on launch!

he played a necro one of the best xp class with animist... 60h with a necro is really much more for other class and even more for stealth class...
Thu 13 Dec 2018 10:57 PM by Turtle006
Good thing it took him 48 hours and not 60. 2 days /played is not 60 hours.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 3:55 AM by cortexqc
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Dec 2018 10:57 PM
Good thing it took him 48 hours and not 60. 2 days /played is not 60 hours.

2days 13hours = 61...
Fri 14 Dec 2018 4:55 AM by astean
I'm not freeling good about exp'ing on this server.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 5:05 AM by Turtle006
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 3:55 AM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Dec 2018 10:57 PM
Good thing it took him 48 hours and not 60. 2 days /played is not 60 hours.

2days 13hours = 61...

Yep, I sure can't read.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 5:30 AM by relvinian
I am not intending this to be a negative reflection on the server. I'm hoping that this will give feedback that solo players need a little love. I don't think solo should be "wrong". This is a beta so I'm hoping that this feedback is received in the positive spirit I hope I reported it in.

Group xp will be fairly quick. I haven't done much of it but I assume you get tasks for groups as well as bonuses for each separate class. In addition, groups kill mobs at a much faster rate.

I guess the question is what is a reasonable investment of time for the average player to get to 50? What if they want a couple 50s and a crafter or two?
Fri 14 Dec 2018 6:51 AM by Jabstar
Finished my ranger in 32 hours 17 minutes on beta. If i did it again right now, that would be 25-26 hours. And yes, when the server goes live thats not going to happen for a first character but thats not what i'm testing. I'm testing to see how fast it can be. People playing Phoenix Live for the first time, will probably do double that. That seems fine I think. Thats the fastest leveling you'll see on a freeshard in a classic setting. And their second character will be way faster as they'll also have gained much more knowledge + there will be less competition over xp spots.
If you're planning to play longer then 2 weeks on the server, why would you want all your characters max level so fast?
I don't think we're discussing at this point, but rather just stating how we feel. Lets be honest if you feel leveling is to slow, noone is going to sway your opinion by making a few clever remarks or a long post stating facts that have been states eleventy times. Objectively, very little has to change i think on the XP department.

Thats probably my last post in this thread. Keep it up devs! (and you to Relvinian!)
Fri 14 Dec 2018 9:16 AM by Kaziera
Lvl 1 to 50 in 32 hrs on a ranger. And you guys are complaining about slow xp 😂🤣
Fri 14 Dec 2018 9:40 AM by jenskamen
Kaziera wrote: Lvl 1 to 50 in 32 hrs on a ranger. And you guys are complaining about slow xp 😂🤣

Well first im not sure if his test run was before or after the XP nerfs that happend after i50 was introduced.
Second there will be a cap of 10 XP items per level. now its unlimmited. from what ive read most XP on higher levels comes from this and it will no longer be the case when you can only turn 10 XP items per level in since thats what comes on launch.

i have to say im not too worried about XP but i dont like that xp was nerfed two times after i50 - meaning almost noone tests it then - and the xp item turn in will be capped when it goes live. so noone tested what the effect on leveling time will be then.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 10:56 AM by Uthred
We made several tests on XP. After it got changed. Public (you will find the results somewhere in this thread) and internal ones. All tests brought up the same result:
1. casuals need roundabout 48h played to get to lvl 50, optimized groups will make it in 24h to 35h.
2. leveling solo may take longer (thats not a surprise), depending on your class. some solo classes will make it to 50 as fast as some groups. some solo classes will need way more than the expected 48h for casual groups.

We never made any secret of it, that solo leveling might not be the best idea on this server. Thats why we introduced the social bonus, and thats why we also used some not so popular classes for our xp tests to show people it doesnt hurt to group a stealther. It does actually help you.

As a result of these tests we will change that a yellow mob will count for solo pve tasks and we will increase the XP per eggs a little bit. Schaf already stated that some posts/pages/threads before.

Anyways, I would like to draw your attention to something that got more or less overseen in this whole discussion. Realmwide pve tasks.


[attachment=1]task.JPG[/attachment]


Every time one of these (except the last three) is finished the realm gets a 5% XP bonus for 24h and a permanent 1% XP bonus on this type of task. There is no cap on this permanent bonus. Every time the task is finished, it will add another 1% to it. It is displayed in the line "XP realm task bonus".


[attachment=0]Unbenannt.JPG[/attachment]


Another advantage is that it sums up if you kill mobs which count for multiple tasks. We implemented this permanent bonus after i50, which means not that many mobs got killed as there is nearly no xping since i50. But it already added up in this case to 26%. Now imagine how much it will be after all the new players started leveling from lvl 1. I guess we will see some 100%+ bonus after some time. The great thing is that everyone in your realm will be able to contribute and at the same time will benefit from it.

To sum it up, the longer the server will be live and the more toons will get leveled, the faster the leveling will be for everyone. Also it is some kind of hidden help for solo players as they will benefit from this the most. Groups kill more mobs/per hour than a solo (except dot'n'run solos) and therefor contribute more to the permanent bonus. Also it is always wise to have a look at those realmwide tasks and check which task will soon be finished to get an extra 5% XP boost.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 12:49 PM by jenskamen
That sounds nice. thanks for sharing. Will be interesting to see if eggs become a bit more relevant for overall XP at higher levels.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 1:33 PM by astean
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 10:56 AM
We made several tests on XP. After it got changed. Public (you will find the results somewhere in this thread) and internal ones. All tests brought up the same result:
1. casuals need roundabout 48h played to get to lvl 50, optimized groups will make it in 24h to 35h.
2. leveling solo may take longer (thats not a surprise), depending on your class. some solo classes will make it to 50 as fast as some groups. some solo classes will need way more than the expected 48h for casual groups.

We never made any secret of it, that solo leveling might not be the best idea on this server. Thats why we introduced the social bonus, and thats why we also used some not so popular classes for our xp tests to show people it doesnt hurt to group a stealther. It does actually help you.

As a result of these tests we will change that a yellow mob will count for solo pve tasks and we will increase the XP per eggs a little bit. Schaf already stated that some posts/pages/threads before.

Anyways, I would like to draw your attention to something that got more or less overseen in this whole discussion. Realmwide pve tasks.


task.JPG


Every time one of these (except the last three) is finished the realm gets a 5% XP bonus for 24h and a permanent 1% XP bonus on this type of task. There is no cap on this permanent bonus. Every time the task is finished, it will add another 1% to it. It is displayed in the line "XP realm task bonus".


Unbenannt.JPG


Another advantage is that it sums up if you kill mobs which count for multiple tasks. We implemented this permanent bonus after i50, which means not that many mobs got killed as there is nearly no xping since i50. But it already added up in this case to 26%. Now imagine how much it will be after all the new players started leveling from lvl 1. I guess we will see some 100%+ bonus after some time. The great thing is that everyone in your realm will be able to contribute and at the same time will benefit from it.

To sum it up, the longer the server will be live and the more toons will get leveled, the faster the leveling will be for everyone. Also it is some kind of hidden help for solo players as they will benefit from this the most. Groups kill more mobs/per hour than a solo (except dot'n'run solos) and therefor contribute more to the permanent bonus. Also it is always wise to have a look at those realmwide tasks and check which task will soon be finished to get an extra 5% XP boost.

Sounds like it will be beneficial to log in at server launch, claim your toon names and then see you all again in few weeks so when I do have to level ... Fat realm wide bonuses will be in place.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 2:15 PM by relvinian
astean wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 1:33 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 10:56 AM
We made several tests on XP. After it got changed. Public (you will find the results somewhere in this thread) and internal ones. All tests brought up the same result:
1. casuals need roundabout 48h played to get to lvl 50, optimized groups will make it in 24h to 35h.
2. leveling solo may take longer (thats not a surprise), depending on your class. some solo classes will make it to 50 as fast as some groups. some solo classes will need way more than the expected 48h for casual groups.

We never made any secret of it, that solo leveling might not be the best idea on this server. Thats why we introduced the social bonus, and thats why we also used some not so popular classes for our xp tests to show people it doesnt hurt to group a stealther. It does actually help you.

As a result of these tests we will change that a yellow mob will count for solo pve tasks and we will increase the XP per eggs a little bit. Schaf already stated that some posts/pages/threads before.

Anyways, I would like to draw your attention to something that got more or less overseen in this whole discussion. Realmwide pve tasks.


task.JPG


Every time one of these (except the last three) is finished the realm gets a 5% XP bonus for 24h and a permanent 1% XP bonus on this type of task. There is no cap on this permanent bonus. Every time the task is finished, it will add another 1% to it. It is displayed in the line "XP realm task bonus".


Unbenannt.JPG


Another advantage is that it sums up if you kill mobs which count for multiple tasks. We implemented this permanent bonus after i50, which means not that many mobs got killed as there is nearly no xping since i50. But it already added up in this case to 26%. Now imagine how much it will be after all the new players started leveling from lvl 1. I guess we will see some 100%+ bonus after some time. The great thing is that everyone in your realm will be able to contribute and at the same time will benefit from it.

To sum it up, the longer the server will be live and the more toons will get leveled, the faster the leveling will be for everyone. Also it is some kind of hidden help for solo players as they will benefit from this the most. Groups kill more mobs/per hour than a solo (except dot'n'run solos) and therefor contribute more to the permanent bonus. Also it is always wise to have a look at those realmwide tasks and check which task will soon be finished to get an extra 5% XP boost.

Sounds like it will be beneficial to log in at server launch, claim your toon names and then see you all again in few weeks so when I do have to level ... Fat realm wide bonuses will be in place.

Server opens on the 4th for a stress test. you can save your names then. Later on server will be wiped but characters with no progression remain. If you wait for launch to save your names it may not be available.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 2:24 PM by Sepplord
astean wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 1:33 PM
Sounds like it will be beneficial to log in at server launch, claim your toon names and then see you all again in few weeks so when I do have to level ... Fat realm wide bonuses will be in place.

At the start there will be many realmtask being completed though, and if i understood correctly those will trigger a 5% bonus for 24h each. So when after the first few hours after launch the first series of tasks get completed you might end up with a huge bonus for 24h
Fri 14 Dec 2018 2:28 PM by Jabstar
In response to Uthred (won't quote to avoid milelong pages) thats really great, i had no idea about th realmwide XP buffs. Thats yet another boost towards XP.
Is there a command ingame to see the status like your screenshot shows?
Fri 14 Dec 2018 2:47 PM by Uthred
Commands are:
/task --> shows your active personal pve & rvr tasks (for example if you have killed 2/15 animals). It also shows the actual short-term rvr task (like "raid keep X" or "fight in emain"
/task realm --> shows all realm tasks
/task personal --> shows all personal tasks

The first 5% xp bonus will be there very soon because of the realmwide pve task "level up". When everybody is starting from lvl 1 this task will prolly be the first to be completed as every level up counts towards it.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 3:07 PM by relvinian
What were the actual base xp increases to the requirements to achieve a level?
Fri 14 Dec 2018 3:12 PM by Jabstar
thanks uthred, i also just found out there's a /train command to train in the field? that 'll chop off a good amount of time ;D
Fri 14 Dec 2018 5:17 PM by Uthred
Yep and as soon as you have some money you are able to buy summonable merchants to sell trashloot while in the field. Also there will be a summonable vault to store valuable drops before your backpack is full.
Fri 14 Dec 2018 9:05 PM by Kaziera
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 5:17 PM
Yep and as soon as you have some money you are able to buy summonable merchants to sell trashloot while in the field. Also there will be a summonable vault to store valuable drops before your backpack is full.

all the usefull things in this thread -> strg c + strg v to the wiki
Mon 17 Dec 2018 12:01 AM by cortexqc
Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Dec 2018 10:56 AM
We made several tests on XP. After it got changed. Public (you will find the results somewhere in this thread) and internal ones. All tests brought up the same result:
1. casuals need roundabout 48h played to get to lvl 50, optimized groups will make it in 24h to 35h.
2. leveling solo may take longer (thats not a surprise), depending on your class. some solo classes will make it to 50 as fast as some groups. some solo classes will need way more than the expected 48h for casual groups.

We never made any secret of it, that solo leveling might not be the best idea on this server. Thats why we introduced the social bonus, and thats why we also used some not so popular classes for our xp tests to show people it doesnt hurt to group a stealther. It does actually help you.

As a result of these tests we will change that a yellow mob will count for solo pve tasks and we will increase the XP per eggs a little bit. Schaf already stated that some posts/pages/threads before.

Anyways, I would like to draw your attention to something that got more or less overseen in this whole discussion. Realmwide pve tasks.


task.JPG


Every time one of these (except the last three) is finished the realm gets a 5% XP bonus for 24h and a permanent 1% XP bonus on this type of task. There is no cap on this permanent bonus. Every time the task is finished, it will add another 1% to it. It is displayed in the line "XP realm task bonus".


Unbenannt.JPG


Another advantage is that it sums up if you kill mobs which count for multiple tasks. We implemented this permanent bonus after i50, which means not that many mobs got killed as there is nearly no xping since i50. But it already added up in this case to 26%. Now imagine how much it will be after all the new players started leveling from lvl 1. I guess we will see some 100%+ bonus after some time. The great thing is that everyone in your realm will be able to contribute and at the same time will benefit from it.

To sum it up, the longer the server will be live and the more toons will get leveled, the faster the leveling will be for everyone. Also it is some kind of hidden help for solo players as they will benefit from this the most. Groups kill more mobs/per hour than a solo (except dot'n'run solos) and therefor contribute more to the permanent bonus. Also it is always wise to have a look at those realmwide tasks and check which task will soon be finished to get an extra 5% XP boost.

sure devs never says solo xp be fast and easy on phoenix but you really need to take care of this cause this is one of the 2 reasons why uthgard failed to attract new players (the other one is no absolutely zero QoL features)
you can add hundreds of group bonus as you want if there is no group around or no player leveling on same level / same hour range you have no other way to solo or eventually duo...

so i have 2 questions :
the first : is the egg reward boost effective? if yes maybe he need other little adjustment, if no, please give us information when you change it to test xp again.

second about pve realmwide permanent bonus :
just tested two 20mn sessions on phoenix and uth at lvl 36.
42 kills here, only 26 on uth (bad stuff, slow regen, and big mana cost on uth).
Results = 0.15% per kill here (xp bar seem to no change...) vs 0.4% per kill on uth (xp bar move a little)
we can mitigate this number to 0.25% per kill on phoenix if you take egg in consideration with actual rate.
So my question is how many kill we need to at least go back to a correct standard xp rate, 0.25 to 0.4 is a +60% permanent boost needed.
can we know the kill numbers to reach lvl 60 realmtasks?
and is the lvl 100 task the max lvl,do you have the kill numbers for a lvl 100 task too?

Thank you !!
Mon 17 Dec 2018 12:39 AM by relvinian
Probably the xp rate is similar but here the xp required to achieve each level was increased two times.

I have asked what the actual numbers of the increase were but nobody seems to want to answer that one.

My experience is after 40 I don't pay any attention to xp and just try and do as many tasks as possible. I don't really care about eggs. Tasks and xp items is where it is at.
Mon 17 Dec 2018 12:51 AM by gruenesschaf
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 12:01 AM
second about pve realmwide permanent bonus :
just tested two 20mn sessions on phoenix and uth at lvl 36.
42 kills here, only 26 on uth (bad stuff, slow regen, and big mana cost on uth).
Results = 0.15% per kill here (xp bar seem to no change...) vs 0.4% per kill on uth (xp bar move a little)
we can mitigate this number to 0.25% per kill on phoenix if you take egg in consideration with actual rate.
So my question is how many kill we need to at least go back to a correct standard xp rate, 0.25 to 0.4 is a +60% permanent boost needed.
can we know the kill numbers to reach lvl 60 realmtasks?
and is the lvl 100 task the max lvl,do you have the kill numbers for a lvl 100 task too?

Taking only the direct kill xp and ignoring everything else is a bit pointless. The 42 kills here will have netted you at least 1 task completion if done in your normal home land or 2 in frontiers / dungeons or 3 in df with being somewhat close to having twice as many completions and each completion will have given you 7% aka 0.7 bubble.

There is no defined amount per realm task and there is no limit. The required kills are based on how long the last completion took and will take that rate so that it completes every 5 days. Meaning there should be a 60% bonus after 300 days.
Mon 17 Dec 2018 1:39 AM by relvinian
Tasks start at 15/25 and double each time. The best way to use them is

kill 15 animals in frontier == get 2 tasks Animal+frontier. Run to a dungeon kill 15 undead get 2 tasks Undead+dungeon. Or better one of the frontier dungeons or darkness falls and get mob+dungeon+frontier 3 tasks. Dungeon/frontier start at 25 the individual mob types start at 15.


Since those are the best they will camped. Player killers will camp frontier and players will camp those as well as dungeons. XP items are also good, also going to be camped.


But you can still go to si or regular areas and kill as many different task mobs as u can-- humanoid, animal, etc.

So while you can get those tasks and so forth xp is better than other servers. Once you used them up and you are looking at like 75 mobs for ur next task it is time to log.
Mon 17 Dec 2018 2:31 AM by cortexqc
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 12:51 AM
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 12:01 AM
second about pve realmwide permanent bonus :
just tested two 20mn sessions on phoenix and uth at lvl 36.
42 kills here, only 26 on uth (bad stuff, slow regen, and big mana cost on uth).
Results = 0.15% per kill here (xp bar seem to no change...) vs 0.4% per kill on uth (xp bar move a little)
we can mitigate this number to 0.25% per kill on phoenix if you take egg in consideration with actual rate.
So my question is how many kill we need to at least go back to a correct standard xp rate, 0.25 to 0.4 is a +60% permanent boost needed.
can we know the kill numbers to reach lvl 60 realmtasks?
and is the lvl 100 task the max lvl,do you have the kill numbers for a lvl 100 task too?

Taking only the direct kill xp and ignoring everything else is a bit pointless. The 42 kills here will have netted you at least 1 task completion if done in your normal home land or 2 in frontiers / dungeons or 3 in df with being somewhat close to having twice as many completions and each completion will have given you 7% aka 0.7 bubble.

There is no defined amount per realm task and there is no limit. The required kills are based on how long the last completion took and will take that rate so that it completes every 5 days. Meaning there should be a 60% bonus after 300 days.

Yes exactly done in varulv and 2 task done approx 14%.
i never say in 20mn i have done less on phoenix than on uth just basic xp+egg per mob vs only basic difference is really big.
i had take on my test all xp incoming source and yes in 20mn with pve task xp is approx twice uthgard bubble.
The problem with pve task is when you reach level 2 it's better for you to change spot cause i'm pretty sure xp start to be lesser than uth
In a donjeon you can find what ? 3 or 4 types of mobs?

changing mob type is not easy cause you need to find it, need a knowledge of monster spots, need to spend time traveling.
with all this time lost finally is this really faster ?

anyway, all these discussions are useless. the implementation of the pve task completely broke the xp system on this server.
he made group xp too fast because groups can kill 100s of mobs in a very short time and acheive tons of tasks levels unlike a solo player which caused the twice nerf of the base xp.
xp nerf that broken the solo xp and the possibility of pl.
imo the personnal pve tasks are the worst features to have been set up. it will have caused 2 times more damage than expected for solo players ...

so we will have to wait 300 days before having a level of normal xp in solo.
without being negative it took less than that for uthgard to go from 4000 to 300 ...
I wish with all my heart that it will not happen to phoenix ...
In any case one thing is sure at the release of the game it will be necessary to be there and no miss the mass rush xp to have groups because after the rush pretty sure it may be complicated ...
Mon 17 Dec 2018 11:07 AM by gruenesschaf
I really don't understand what you are arguing for.

If you are forced to solo because you have a rather irregular schedule and only have some time per day you'll have a good time as the tasks will make leveling rather effective for the first 2 hours per day.
If you have a lot of time and want to play solo the entire time you'll eventually have a bad time after the first few hours per day and to us it's fine to make group play better at the cost of prolonged intentional solo play.

Once too few people are leveling to basically always find a group we'll revisit this but I would imagine that by then the realm tasks completed often enough to even make prolonged solo play good enough.
Mon 17 Dec 2018 2:14 PM by relvinian
Here is my suggestion then. Whatever xp changes will be made for live please put them in while we can still test them.

Change the xp items. Change the eggs. Do whatever you are going to do while it is beta.

Also, are the spawns dynamic? Do the mobs increase lets say near pk keep when there are 200 people in that area?
Mon 17 Dec 2018 6:20 PM by Jabstar
I dont want to have any more changes.

What i would love to see is everything about how XP works on Phoenix centralized on the wiki page.
there's already this page: http://playphoenix.wiki/experience-rate-gains/

but there's more that that. For example the realm-wide killtasks that Uthred mentioned earlier in this post
Mon 17 Dec 2018 7:15 PM by Uthred
We will not change anything about the XP rates. I will not explain why as I/we did multiple times before.

The wiki will be updated while the server is closed for public and will have all the infos that you will need to have a joyful experience on Phoenix.
Mon 17 Dec 2018 7:31 PM by relvinian
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Dec 2018 7:15 PM
We will not change anything about the XP rates. I will not explain why as I/we did multiple times before.

The wiki will be updated while the server is closed for public and will have all the infos that you will need to have a joyful experience on Phoenix.

I'm talking about already planned changes like the xp item change which does not appear to be in and the potential egg increase which had been mentioned.

I understood you were changing them to one set per level and I was curious to test how that actually works. Maybe then someone could test things and write up an accurate how to xp guide for the server so people can read it before live.
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