Yellow buff pots with 1hr timers

Started 19 Nov 2018
by Fangle
in RvR
or do away with buff pots all together... 10 min timers are effin lame , then you gotta rotate every 2mins for your additional buffs... lame. I cant tell you the amount of peeps that i have to let run by me cause i have to walk off and rebuff when my buffies start flashing. Or even worse .. your engaged in a fight and your buffs drop...
Mon 19 Nov 2018 10:40 PM by Kwall0311
Let us not forget how expensive they get too. I tried this arguement a while ago , and youll most likely be flamed for it by comments like ( get good, learn your class) .

Id be cool with making them 23 mins like casted buffs.
Mon 19 Nov 2018 10:49 PM by Exploder
I'd agree that buff potions need to be increased in duration, but a hard no to them being yellow. That would be creeping into buff bot territory.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 12:13 AM by daocgod
The buff classes are still useful outside of buffing so it doesn't really matter
Tue 20 Nov 2018 1:16 AM by Cadebrennus
Dude you're in full-on Defias territory here.


Tue 20 Nov 2018 4:16 PM by poisonclover
I don't want them tweaked, id rather see them limited, with the full buff pots removed.

you should only able to have 1 pot buff and 1 charge buff up at a time imo. Ive said it before and ill say it again, classes that where given self buffs to be viable no longer even need to spec the line for the buffs they are a complete waste.

They need to decrease the CONC cost on RED buffs for enhance specced healers.

Making the game more soloable for stealthers is all these potions do, and tbh.. its getting old facing an opponent who can parry,evade and block at an insane rate.
I run 50 Crit spec, because I love the hamstring-ripper chain. I can count on one hand how many times I've actually made it to ripper in a fight.

Nerfing classes when your giving them R5L9 free and MP gear, capped resists and stats. is so far from how this game will play out on live its ridiculous.

but by no means should a solo player be running around with yellow potion buffs or equivalent to group casted buffs.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 4:53 PM by defiasbandit
The duration should increase to 23 minutes.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 5:54 PM by Cadebrennus
poisonclover wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 4:16 PM
I don't want them tweaked, id rather see them limited, with the full buff pots removed.

you should only able to have 1 pot buff and 1 charge buff up at a time imo. Ive said it before and ill say it again, classes that where given self buffs to be viable no longer even need to spec the line for the buffs they are a complete waste.

They need to decrease the CONC cost on RED buffs for enhance specced healers.

Making the game more soloable for stealthers is all these potions do, and tbh.. its getting old facing an opponent who can parry,evade and block at an insane rate.
I run 50 Crit spec, because I love the hamstring-ripper chain. I can count on one hand how many times I've actually made it to ripper in a fight.

Nerfing classes when your giving them R5L9 free and MP gear, capped resists and stats. is so far from how this game will play out on live its ridiculous.

but by no means should a solo player be running around with yellow potion buffs or equivalent to group casted buffs.

I wouldn't say it's a complete waste. At 36 Pathfinding my buffs are better than pots. Only a 75 Dex/Quick charge can beat the Dex/Quick I get even at 36 PF. Think about it, most classes with buffs have even better buffs at 36 than Rangers do.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM by Turtle006
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:32 PM by Doiri
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 19 Nov 2018 10:40 PM
Id be cool with making them 23 mins like casted buffs.

+1
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:42 PM by Tydowen
By having yellow pots+timers 20 min, you defintively penalize come class who could like to have some solo run (e.g. monk, warden, shaman).
Without talking about the impact for smallman.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:48 PM by Arkeon
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.

+1
Tue 20 Nov 2018 8:02 PM by defiasbandit
Arkeon wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:48 PM
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.

+1

One of the worst ideas ever btw.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 8:23 PM by Turtle006
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 8:02 PM
Arkeon wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:48 PM
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.

+1

One of the worst ideas ever btw.

I played live for 12 years, starting before SI, I know what I am asking for.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 8:26 PM by Doiri
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 8:23 PM
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 8:02 PM
Arkeon wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:48 PM
+1

One of the worst ideas ever btw.

I played live for 12 years, starting before SI, I know what I am asking for.

/chuckle
Tue 20 Nov 2018 11:49 PM by Gohanssj
poisonclover wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 4:16 PM
I don't want them tweaked, id rather see them limited, with the full buff pots removed.

you should only able to have 1 pot buff and 1 charge buff up at a time imo. Ive said it before and ill say it again, classes that where given self buffs to be viable no longer even need to spec the line for the buffs they are a complete waste.

They need to decrease the CONC cost on RED buffs for enhance specced healers.

Making the game more soloable for stealthers is all these potions do, and tbh.. its getting old facing an opponent who can parry,evade and block at an insane rate.
I run 50 Crit spec, because I love the hamstring-ripper chain. I can count on one hand how many times I've actually made it to ripper in a fight.

Nerfing classes when your giving them R5L9 free and MP gear, capped resists and stats. is so far from how this game will play out on live its ridiculous.

but by no means should a solo player be running around with yellow potion buffs or equivalent to group casted buffs.

I rand 50CS 50 thrust and never had a problem landing my evade chain. In fact you would be blocked and evaded MORE OFTEN unbuffed v unbuffed as your WS increase is greater than the defense increase so both buffed your chance to hit actually improves.
Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:44 PM by Skorra
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.

Hey Turtle!
You want real DAoC with very limited pots and very limited fun?
Maybe try this Server
Whats wrong with you guys? Uthgard will die after January 19th because of very limited pots.
Give people yellow buffs, because everyone need and want it.
Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:57 PM by chryso
I don't understand the dislike for the no buff pots at all suggestion. If everyone is buffed the same amount then everyone not buffed at all is the same thing. I especially dislike the endo buff pots. Endo should be something you have to manage and plan your fights accordingly. As it stands now you can just spam your most endo expensive styles while sprinting forever. There is no strategy in that.
Wed 21 Nov 2018 5:14 PM by Doiri
Skorra wrote:
Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:44 PM
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.

Hey Turtle!
You want real DAoC with very limited pots and very limited fun?
Maybe try this Server
Whats wrong with you guys? Uthgard will die after January 19th because of very limited pots.
Give people yellow buffs, because everyone need and want it.

how dare you disagree? after all, Turtle played live for 12 years, starting before SI. know your place bro
Wed 21 Nov 2018 6:11 PM by Rayvn11
Saw a good idea in this thread, lower conc cost for buffing classes.
Wed 21 Nov 2018 6:59 PM by Thinal
chryso wrote:
Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:57 PM
I don't understand the dislike for the no buff pots at all suggestion. If everyone is buffed the same amount then everyone not buffed at all is the same thing. I especially dislike the endo buff pots. Endo should be something you have to manage and plan your fights accordingly. As it stands now you can just spam your most endo expensive styles while sprinting forever. There is no strategy in that.

Right now, we have custom additions to NNF RAs, including Tireless. If we got rid of Tireless but kept endo 3 pots, would that be better? We also cap LW at 1, while it's uncapped on NNF. Uncapping it would re-enable permasprint, but would make endurance management still be a thing for style spam. Leaving it capped would require end4 to permasprint, limiting that to groups with endo buffs or classes with self-endo buffs. I'm not convinced that's a bad thing, because I only need to permasprint in battle when my opponent is permasprint in battle. The downside would be Hibbies trying to get to Emain before getting bored and logging.

I'd rather not ditch endo pots entirely. Perhaps it's too strong in the other direction, but without them, many classes can't kill a single yellow MOB without running out of endurance 1/2 way through. Even if you deem that a "good thing" from the perspective of the actual battle, it's a lot of sitting around afterward, not fun at all. The game I had played for 15 years before it shut down would routinely pit players against large swarms of creatures, and sitting down was more of an emote than a recovery concern. Sitting on my ass between kills is freaking boring as hell.
Thu 22 Nov 2018 12:30 AM by Turtle006
Doiri wrote:
Wed 21 Nov 2018 5:14 PM
Skorra wrote:
Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:44 PM
Turtle006 wrote:
Tue 20 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I would prefer no pots or very limited pots, but that ship has sailed.

Hey Turtle!
You want real DAoC with very limited pots and very limited fun?
Maybe try this Server
Whats wrong with you guys? Uthgard will die after January 19th because of very limited pots.
Give people yellow buffs, because everyone need and want it.

how dare you disagree? after all, Turtle played live for 12 years, starting before SI. know your place bro

Please look at who I was relying to with that before you decide I was playing the "I know everything card"
Thu 22 Nov 2018 9:56 AM by Skorra
Thinal wrote:
Wed 21 Nov 2018 6:59 PM
I'd rather not ditch endo pots entirely. Perhaps it's too strong in the other direction, but without them, many classes can't kill a single yellow MOB without running out of endurance 1/2 way through. Even if you deem that a "good thing" from the perspective of the actual battle, it's a lot of sitting around afterward, not fun at all. The game I had played for 15 years before it shut down would routinely pit players against large swarms of creatures, and sitting down was more of an emote than a recovery concern. Sitting on my ass between kills is freaking boring as hell.

And again. There is a Server with limited pots and sitting down between every yellow Mob. First it had 4000 Players. Now it has 250. Why you want destroy Phoenix with your creepy suggestions, when your Dream-Setup already exist?

If I want to farm in Trollheim with Warrior for example, I don’t have time looking for a Shaman, who gives me endo. Without pots you can do nothing in DAoC without a Group. And we are all old suckers with Families and without time.

Moreover the game is more fun, if crafting is a big factor.
Sat 24 Nov 2018 11:30 PM by Vkejai
Remove buff pots for good and make your buffing classes feel usefull
Sun 25 Nov 2018 1:42 AM by Sepplord
Vkejai wrote:
Sat 24 Nov 2018 11:30 PM
Remove buff pots for good and make your buffing classes feel usefull

you mean make self buffing classes better solo/smallmen

shamans/druids/clerics aren't useless at all
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:33 PM by Schamalow
Sepplord wrote:
Sun 25 Nov 2018 1:42 AM
Vkejai wrote:
Sat 24 Nov 2018 11:30 PM
Remove buff pots for good and make your buffing classes feel usefull

you mean make self buffing classes better solo/smallmen

shamans/druids/clerics aren't useless at all

You miss half of the buffing classes btw...
Mon 26 Nov 2018 1:57 AM by Sepplord
Schamalow wrote:
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:33 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Sun 25 Nov 2018 1:42 AM
Vkejai wrote:
Sat 24 Nov 2018 11:30 PM
Remove buff pots for good and make your buffing classes feel usefull

you mean make self buffing classes better solo/smallmen

shamans/druids/clerics aren't useless at all

You miss half of the buffing classes btw...

Bards and healers are useless?


oooooohh the friar...you meant a single class....why didn't you just say that then?
Mon 26 Nov 2018 5:52 AM by Schamalow
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 26 Nov 2018 1:57 AM
Schamalow wrote:
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:33 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Sun 25 Nov 2018 1:42 AM
you mean make self buffing classes better solo/smallmen

shamans/druids/clerics aren't useless at all

You miss half of the buffing classes btw...

Bards and healers are useless?


oooooohh the friar...you meant a single class....why didn't you just say that then?

You miss Warden...
Mon 26 Nov 2018 5:17 PM by BaldEagle
Agree, 10 minute timers are lame.
Mon 26 Nov 2018 7:13 PM by Sepplord
Schamalow wrote:
Mon 26 Nov 2018 5:52 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 26 Nov 2018 1:57 AM
Schamalow wrote:
Sun 25 Nov 2018 8:33 PM
You miss half of the buffing classes btw...

Bards and healers are useless?


oooooohh the friar...you meant a single class....why didn't you just say that then?

You miss Warden...

it makes sense that you have no point, because you have to get it first
Sat 15 Dec 2018 5:53 AM by Hyjinxxx
Skorra wrote:
Thu 22 Nov 2018 9:56 AM
Thinal wrote:
Wed 21 Nov 2018 6:59 PM
I'd rather not ditch endo pots entirely. Perhaps it's too strong in the other direction, but without them, many classes can't kill a single yellow MOB without running out of endurance 1/2 way through. Even if you deem that a "good thing" from the perspective of the actual battle, it's a lot of sitting around afterward, not fun at all. The game I had played for 15 years before it shut down would routinely pit players against large swarms of creatures, and sitting down was more of an emote than a recovery concern. Sitting on my ass between kills is freaking boring as hell.

And again. There is a Server with limited pots and sitting down between every yellow Mob. First it had 4000 Players. Now it has 250. Why you want destroy Phoenix with your creepy suggestions, when your Dream-Setup already exist?

If I want to farm in Trollheim with Warrior for example, I don’t have time looking for a Shaman, who gives me endo. Without pots you can do nothing in DAoC without a Group. And we are all old suckers with Families and without time.

Moreover the game is more fun, if crafting is a big factor.

I agree to all of what Skorra said, I feel that why not have the ability to do what you need to do solo wise? It doesn’t mean people aren’t going to ever group again. It just means that if they don’t have the time to create or wait for a group, then they can STILL enjoy their experience playing solo with pots. Though I could understand some parts of buffpots making things a bit one sided if they’re too high value. Perhaps just an increase of time wouldn’t be as bad? Not totally game breaking anyway..

And if you do want the higher value buffpots, then that would take away from the rest of the game. It’s finding the right balance of pve and pvp. But the crumby part is that the server will flood and be super busy at first. Usually how it goes, until people get tired of feeling like they cannot get ahead, because of the fighting for xp spots, loot gains, or RP gain.. something’s gotta give

What would be the proper balance to keep people actively interested, but doesn’t over flavor the Classic feel of DAoC and not just become a personalized server that everyone’s opinion is different on?
Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:26 PM by Ramppage
This game is super slow, and really sucks without buffs. This has always been the same since day 1. If you wanna improve this game and QoL, you get at least yellow buffs on 20+ minute timers. This also makes the grouping game stronger since the healers run out of con at 2-3 people max buffed. There is also no buff effectiveness, so the red buffs are even bad in this version of the game so asking for yellow isn't even an issue. No-one should ever get 1-2, or even 3 shot in a game cause you only have 1200 - 1600 hps.....what fun is that?
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:48 PM by Kralin
Ramppage wrote:
Tue 8 Jan 2019 9:26 PM
This game is super slow, and really sucks without buffs. This has always been the same since day 1. If you wanna improve this game and QoL, you get at least yellow buffs on 20+ minute timers. This also makes the grouping game stronger since the healers run out of con at 2-3 people max buffed. There is also no buff effectiveness, so the red buffs are even bad in this version of the game so asking for yellow isn't even an issue. No-one should ever get 1-2, or even 3 shot in a game cause you only have 1200 - 1600 hps.....what fun is that?

The fun comes from grouping with other players that can provide the buffs. The potions and item charges make up enough of the difference that blue buff potions are fine. That helps to solve your healers running out of conc problem.

If you're solo without the buffs you want that's your own choice to go solo. QoL is improved in daoc by grouping with other players.
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:52 PM by defiasbandit
Potions should be easier to attain and have longer timers. The charge/dd timers should not be shared either. There should be more potion QoL.

The argument that players should need to rely on buff classes and groups is how your population dies.
Tue 8 Jan 2019 10:58 PM by Gohanssj
I disagree, everyone is already in the same boat so it doesn't really effect solo play, I found just using a buff barrel without charges was enough on my Inf because I'm lazy. But with charges as well you are decently buffed.

By giving everyone access to decent buffs it nerfs chars like hunter and rangers, beast and path are already mildly redundant lines but at least they still offer something.

I like the current buff situation in terms of stats, I would like increased timers tho, as you can always have them up fairly easily its a pain having to keep reusing. It's not a matter of skill or tactics or anything that makes short timers worthwhile, it's just an irritant
Wed 9 Jan 2019 12:55 AM by relvinian
Man i missed this whole discussion.

How about my suggestion? NPC buff bots that last 20 minutes and give buffs that are weaker than pots.
Wed 9 Jan 2019 1:42 AM by j.camp633
People just need to be realistic. The only reason live DAOC has stayed alive this long is because they always have allowed the use of buffbots. This game would have shit the bed 10 years ago if people couldnt buff themselves.

Any other iteration of the game (classic server, freeshards) has failed due directly to this reason.

If you guys really want the classic DAOC treatment, then you must have buffbots, or a close equivalent in potions, or you are just setting this server up for failure.

Especially in this day and age.
Wed 9 Jan 2019 3:14 AM by clairegodspeed
j.camp633 wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 1:42 AM
People just need to be realistic. The only reason live DAOC has stayed alive this long is because they always have allowed the use of buffbots. This game would have shit the bed 10 years ago if people couldnt buff themselves.

Any other iteration of the game (classic server, freeshards) has failed due directly to this reason.

If you guys really want the classic DAOC treatment, then you must have buffbots, or a close equivalent in potions, or you are just setting this server up for failure.

Especially in this day and age.

Dexis, you been around forever. You are too qualified even for this lame forum/freeshard version. Common sense, standard daoc never enter Euro-based Freeshards.
What is needed, won't happen. Over strict rules and really lame rules is what players get. Face it, that's the way it is. Better Chance dems giving Trump 20 billion for a wall then to get buffs for solo players on the 2 freeshards. 3 min. timers from items 75 str/con dex/quick and blue con buffs is best as it gets. and, 10 min timers for all. Hastner is 10 mins, which is probably best thing in game.
Wed 9 Jan 2019 4:50 AM by Isavyr
j.camp633 wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 1:42 AM
If you guys really want the classic DAOC treatment, then you must have buffbots, or a close equivalent in potions, or you are just setting this server up for failure.

Assassins weren't designed with buffs in mind, and become (imo) overly strong when given full-value buffs. So the idea that the solution is full-buffs seems misplaced.

Actually, for argument's sake, the whole buffing system is a bad system. It artificially inflates the value of Druids, Clerics, and Shamans (DCS) beyond their healing and other utility. Their buffs are so necessary to compete as they radically improve groupmate's performance beyond what other classes can offer (especially true with caster, as it more than doubles the cast speed of a character--no modern mmo bothered to replicate such a strange design). It furthermore reduces the value/potential for tertiary healers (Body Cab, Suppression SM, Mentalism Ment) as, if you already have a DCS, a tertiary healer is unnecessary. It effectively reduces the group build variety by a large amount.

Ideally the game would be balanced without any concentration buffs, in my opinion. However, it is deeply classic and therefore set in stone. So, in my opinion, it seems correct--at a minimum--to offer buff potions with longer duration, as the duration isn't the balance issue, but the strength of the buffs.
Wed 9 Jan 2019 4:57 AM by defiasbandit
j.camp633 wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 1:42 AM
People just need to be realistic. The only reason live DAOC has stayed alive this long is because they always have allowed the use of buffbots. This game would have shit the bed 10 years ago if people couldnt buff themselves.

Any other iteration of the game (classic server, freeshards) has failed due directly to this reason.

If you guys really want the classic DAOC treatment, then you must have buffbots, or a close equivalent in potions, or you are just setting this server up for failure.

Especially in this day and age.

You are right my friend.
Wed 9 Jan 2019 12:39 PM by relvinian
Call me old fashioned but i think there is more room for variance than do it my way or the server will die. Seems a bit presumptive to say before the server even opens.

I'm a bit of a prophet when it comes to doom and gloom of servers. I have rightfully predicted server death for a couple daoc free shards. I can even predict this one dying, since on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero.

Does that mean do it my way or the server will die? No, everything dies. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of compromise on buffs, either crappy buff npcs or slightly longer buff duration. Why not 15 minute buff pots? Seems easy to do and not a complete deal breaker.

But the whole do it my way or the server is going to die seems a bit extreme unless we are talking about extremely slow xp, 20 minute horse rides, or the damn map not working.
Wed 9 Jan 2019 11:10 PM by j.camp633
relvinian wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 12:39 PM
Call me old fashioned but i think there is more room for variance than do it my way or the server will die. Seems a bit presumptive to say before the server even opens.

I'm a bit of a prophet when it comes to doom and gloom of servers. I have rightfully predicted server death for a couple daoc free shards. I can even predict this one dying, since on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero.

Does that mean do it my way or the server will die? No, everything dies. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of compromise on buffs, either crappy buff npcs or slightly longer buff duration. Why not 15 minute buff pots? Seems easy to do and not a complete deal breaker.

But the whole do it my way or the server is going to die seems a bit extreme unless we are talking about extremely slow xp, 20 minute horse rides, or the damn map not working.

Im just stating facts here, has nothing to do with my opinions on buffs at all.

Those who are against self-buffing, i see where they are coming from and i totally understand why they want it that way.

Its just that this game will not work any other way.

It would be great if everyone had a setup group of friends to log in with everyday and RVR together and play the way DAOC was drawn up in the beginning, but we all know thats not the case for the majority of people playing at this point in time. Most people who play are old now, have busy lives, busy jobs, and just want to log in casually and take a few runs. And those people, believe it or not, are what will keep this server going.

The most important factor in the success of a server like this is population. Without population, we have nothing. And once the server dies because people cant find a group, it wont matter what kind of buffs you have or don't have, because there will be no one to kill. Giving people the option of decent self-buffing will keep a lot more people playing for a lot longer.

Also, solos/duos/smallman/stealth are the bread and butter of 8man groups. If i was running 8, which i probably will part of the time, i want to see more of these types of players around, as much as possible.

People are just looking at this the wrong way.

Bottom line, if you want to enjoy this server, which could be the best version of this game ever, don't gimp the population by making it harder to play casually.
Thu 10 Jan 2019 12:50 AM by relvinian
It sort of feels like I'm talking with myself. I agree with you in principal on many things you say, particularly that population and casuals are the key to longevity on a server. I just think that flexibility and overall fun play is the key rather than any specific thing. If you don't like using pots there are actually some self buffing classes that are real beasts and there are 100 charge kegs here with buff all options. Combined forces is the all buff one and the other one is all regen whatever its called.

That being said, i have already suggested npc buffs and that was pretty much ignored. I didn't take the position that it would kill the server, i just tried to make suggestions which i thought would help casuals and which would be more fun. In the context of what you are talking about maybe longer duration pots would be a little less work. Actual combined force kegs are sort of annoying as they require you to farm certain mobs for drops to make them.
Thu 10 Jan 2019 1:17 AM by defiasbandit
j.camp633 wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 11:10 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 12:39 PM
Call me old fashioned but i think there is more room for variance than do it my way or the server will die. Seems a bit presumptive to say before the server even opens.

I'm a bit of a prophet when it comes to doom and gloom of servers. I have rightfully predicted server death for a couple daoc free shards. I can even predict this one dying, since on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero.

Does that mean do it my way or the server will die? No, everything dies. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of compromise on buffs, either crappy buff npcs or slightly longer buff duration. Why not 15 minute buff pots? Seems easy to do and not a complete deal breaker.

But the whole do it my way or the server is going to die seems a bit extreme unless we are talking about extremely slow xp, 20 minute horse rides, or the damn map not working.

Im just stating facts here, has nothing to do with my opinions on buffs at all.

Those who are against self-buffing, i see where they are coming from and i totally understand why they want it that way.

Its just that this game will not work any other way.

It would be great if everyone had a setup group of friends to log in with everyday and RVR together and play the way DAOC was drawn up in the beginning, but we all know thats not the case for the majority of people playing at this point in time. Most people who play are old now, have busy lives, busy jobs, and just want to log in casually and take a few runs. And those people, believe it or not, are what will keep this server going.

The most important factor in the success of a server like this is population. Without population, we have nothing. And once the server dies because people cant find a group, it wont matter what kind of buffs you have or don't have, because there will be no one to kill. Giving people the option of decent self-buffing will keep a lot more people playing for a lot longer.

Also, solos/duos/smallman/stealth are the bread and butter of 8man groups. If i was running 8, which i probably will part of the time, i want to see more of these types of players around, as much as possible.

People are just looking at this the wrong way.

Bottom line, if you want to enjoy this server, which could be the best version of this game ever, don't gimp the population by making it harder to play casually.

Stop making so much sense! This server needs more QoL like longer potion durations. There are lots of changes that still need to be made. There should be run speed potions etc..

Making this server too group oriented will doom the server. It is so obvious.
Thu 10 Jan 2019 2:16 AM by HelloPancake
j.camp633 wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 11:10 PM
Most people who play are old now, have busy lives, busy jobs, and just want to log in casually and take a few runs. And those people, believe it or not, are what will keep this server going.

People are just looking at this the wrong way.

Bottom line, if you want to enjoy this server, which could be the best version of this game ever, don't gimp the population by making it harder to play casually.

Being one of the older players with a busy real life, who will likely spend a great deal of time soloing--- I politely want to point out why I wish all potion buffs and clickable item charge buffs were removed from the game--- because it requires grinding to craft or buy, because it adds nothing but arbitrary numbers, because when I go out to pvp, its one more thing to manage and worry about. If it was all removed, I'd not have to worry about every soloer, be it stealther or otherwise-- being decked out to the nines with every sort of advantage. Most experienced players already know and understand that certain self buff classes should be feared and respected-- the same way a soloer should avoid enemy small and 8 man groups unless they're supremely confident in their ability to kill a couple before their demise.

I level up a character falling in love with what the character offers on my journey to PVP, potions and charge items are foreign intrusions to that persona-- 'clickies' that everyone has access to that do nothing to build upon what the character developed as--- its simply an arbitrary boost to underlying numbers. Honestly if someone without potions loses, your answer would be to 'get potions' but if everyone is using potions, what purpose are they serving-- we're back to square one but with more micromanagement. ***radical possibly stupid ideas added at the end of this post

Unpopular opinion but I feel the same way about Purge, and Ignore Pain-- they're just clickes that are available to everyone that provide a grinding hurdle before I can start taking the realm abilities that further enhance the things I actually like about my character.(like Volley, Reflex Attack, bonus to crit-- fun stuff) ****Another scandalous idea at the bottom

I didn't mean to make this such a long reply-- but somethings are absolutely required to reliably compete--people shouldn't be forced to 'grind' to obtain it, lest they feel excluded and punished for not having the time to play as much as others--- yes having some levels of Mastery of Pain would be fun on my dps toon, or falcon's eye on my archer-- but they're enhancing features for parts of what define those class-- and not the locked gate to an enjoyable experience like Purge, IP, Det, MoC, crafting potions/raiding for clickies feel like at times.


Ok you want to hear my increasingly crazy ideas...
*** Yes I understand that removing charge items makes a lot of end game loot in PVE undesirable-- replace them with procs, or make them functional in PVE only-- Hell I'd be fine with all the expansions if they were PVE only (artifacts from ToA, etc). And if that severely limits the interest in end game PVE-- then add mini relics to each boss-- things that have to be docked in keeps other than the relic keep that add a few percent to defense, offense, crafting, cash/drop rates or RP/EXP rates--- the other realms would salivate at gathering these up and could steal these once and only once if we don't protect them and if/when we capture them back, they're destroyed--- giving us a reason to go do the raid again and the cycle repeats (and I think raid content should award realm points to those that do the raid and obtain the 'artifact' but perhaps capped per month to avoid guild lockdown). Yes, it is a radical idea.

**** Cap Det per class and remove purge--Better that cure mez was both a spell in its current form, and also an ability that everyone had access to that required you run within melee range of your friendly and free them with a 0 damage whack (with root taking longer to undo than simply waking up someone from mez, and stuns having no cure) - the attacking team would still have time to attack, as the tanks with determination would either be peeling to protect their mezzed comrades or trying to wake them up. As for things like Det, I feel like it should be level unlocked like Evade-- with heavy tanks getting something like Det VII by 50 (49%), hybrids and light tanks getting Det V by 50 (35%) and stealthers getting Det III by 50 (21%). Similarly for casters and healers stuff like MoC could become an enhanced Quickcast (1cast at creation, with up to five casts at 50-- and a minute cooldown for every cast you make of those five). Perhaps instead of RA vanish--stealthers could reduce arbitrary detection and radii have an increasing percentage chance to vanish for free at any time with a 30 second cool down (with only a second or two of perfect stealth and no purge or immunity [dots bleeds tick without popping stealth]) by speccing higher in stealth (even beyond comp 50 if they so choose) trading spec points for other lines for more stealth survivability. You could then set a general base detection radius for everyone and either visi or stealther you then know the easier to spot stealther will probably be tougher but you'll have that split second or two more to see them coming and react.
Fri 11 Jan 2019 8:50 AM by Eyeball
Instead of changing pots/ra's.
Maybe you can tweak both and lower end usage of styles and spells.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 3:45 PM by Stiv
I'd love to see pots removed. They are a drag to manage. Either get rid of them and call it a day or passively buff everyone's stats to yellow buff level all the time so that self buffers can just ignore their buff lines like they mostly did on live with bots. I just hate managing pots and I can't allow myself to not do it knowing they are available.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 12:34 PM by tsteken
Stiv wrote:
Mon 21 Jan 2019 3:45 PM
I'd love to see pots removed. They are a drag to manage. Either get rid of them and call it a day or passively buff everyone's stats to yellow buff level all the time so that self buffers can just ignore their buff lines like they mostly did on live with bots. I just hate managing pots and I can't allow myself to not do it knowing they are available.

Yeah Im sure a Thane or Champ only spec their respective line for the str/con buff right? lol. or Friar VW would be REAL good without their bufflines too.
Only classes that would ignore their selfbuffline is Archers.

It sucks to manage pots but there is no recasttimers here, and there is the big megapot that buffs u with all the buffs too.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:42 PM by Sepplord
i would prefer a slightly longer timer, but besides that, there really is not that much "management" due to the combi-pots

2pots, that can be spammed,+ 2charge items isn't like you need a spreadsheet to "manage" that
Tue 22 Jan 2019 4:15 PM by Stiv
tsteken wrote:
Tue 22 Jan 2019 12:34 PM
It sucks to manage pots but there is no recasttimers here, and there is the big megapot that buffs u with all the buffs too.

Didn't know that. That should help. Just longer duration then would be nice.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 10:39 PM by phixion
What makes it worse is that once your old pots are used, you have to again drag new ones to the bar, making it even more annoying.

As a soloer who depends on buffs, I feel like I'm forever buffing.

It will be better once I can afford supremacy, but I am seriously concerned at the potential PvE nightmare that faces me when I run out of feathers.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 10:49 PM by defiasbandit
Increase the duration to 23 minutes.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:19 AM by Guetzli
Either increase timers or remove/limit them (I say this as an Alchemist).
I ran solo for a while near DL (as a Hero) and the thing is if you run solo, you feel the need to use buff pots. So you use them. And using them right now is really annoying. I don't want to be forced to use them (which soloers currently are) if they stay like this.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 7:15 AM by Dacht
Remove them altogether or limit them to one pot and one charge. You only NEED them to solo if everyone else has them. If no one has them, no one needs them.
Cut the cord.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 7:53 AM by Sepplord
phixion wrote:
Tue 22 Jan 2019 10:39 PM
What makes it worse is that once your old pots are used, you have to again drag new ones to the bar, making it even more annoying.

As a soloer who depends on buffs, I feel like I'm forever buffing.

It will be better once I can afford supremacy, but I am seriously concerned at the potential PvE nightmare that faces me when I run out of feathers.

Afaik the 100charge-combined pot costs 750feathers. A TG/Galla/whatsitcalledinalb raid gives you 10-13k feather in 2-3hours currently.

Thats 1333 - 1733 charges per TG raid.

I think the featherfarm is bearable
Wed 23 Jan 2019 2:56 PM by Stiv
The 100 charge pots are selling for ~1.3P on Alb currently. So it's chugging 13gold every 10 mins. I know we get feathers in RvR, do we get any gold? I'm worried about force PvE to maintain pots as well. That would be awful. If I have to spend most of my income from RvR for this I'm fine with it but I really hope RvR covers it.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:43 PM by Horus
If you are going to have super buff potions why not just allow buffbots?

Buff pots are a smack in the face of the core design of DaoC. They spent a lot of time putting in buff lines on certain classes for a reason.

How about Perf Artery pots? AE Mezz pots? Speed 5 pots? Stealth pots? Vendo mode pots? Charm pet pots? PBAOE Pots? Shield slam pots?

Yea, doesn't sound very good when one of your core spec lines is reduced to a potion anyone can buy does it?

Bad enough as it is...don't make it worse.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 5:40 PM by clairegodspeed
j.camp633 wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 11:10 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 9 Jan 2019 12:39 PM
Call me old fashioned but i think there is more room for variance than do it my way or the server will die. Seems a bit presumptive to say before the server even opens.

I'm a bit of a prophet when it comes to doom and gloom of servers. I have rightfully predicted server death for a couple daoc free shards. I can even predict this one dying, since on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero.

Does that mean do it my way or the server will die? No, everything dies. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of compromise on buffs, either crappy buff npcs or slightly longer buff duration. Why not 15 minute buff pots? Seems easy to do and not a complete deal breaker.

But the whole do it my way or the server is going to die seems a bit extreme unless we are talking about extremely slow xp, 20 minute horse rides, or the damn map not working.

Im just stating facts here, has nothing to do with my opinions on buffs at all.

Those who are against self-buffing, i see where they are coming from and i totally understand why they want it that way.

Its just that this game will not work any other way.

It would be great if everyone had a setup group of friends to log in with everyday and RVR together and play the way DAOC was drawn up in the beginning, but we all know thats not the case for the majority of people playing at this point in time. Most people who play are old now, have busy lives, busy jobs, and just want to log in casually and take a few runs. And those people, believe it or not, are what will keep this server going.

The most important factor in the success of a server like this is population. Without population, we have nothing. And once the server dies because people cant find a group, it wont matter what kind of buffs you have or don't have, because there will be no one to kill. Giving people the option of decent self-buffing will keep a lot more people playing for a lot longer.

Also, solos/duos/smallman/stealth are the bread and butter of 8man groups. If i was running 8, which i probably will part of the time, i want to see more of these types of players around, as much as possible.

People are just looking at this the wrong way.

Bottom line, if you want to enjoy this server, which could be the best version of this game ever, don't gimp the population by making it harder to play casually.

Agreed. I think, they ARE compromising from what Live and Uthgard are. 20 min timers and or yellow con NPC are no really a big deal to them, but the world for the guys that used to run bots on Live and or Supremacy Potions. Not everyone does 8 mans.
I wonder if they will take heed to the community, when Uthgard didn't?
I know using 10 min buffs will tire in a few months once everyone get 50 and RVR. Uthgard was Terrible in this regard. History will probably repeat itself once more.
Wed 23 Jan 2019 6:41 PM by defiasbandit
Either cater to solo and small man players or end up like Uthgard.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 11:04 AM by Cadebrennus
Dacht wrote:
Wed 23 Jan 2019 7:15 AM
Remove them altogether or limit them to one pot and one charge. You only NEED them to solo if everyone else has them. If no one has them, no one needs them.
Cut the cord.

Agreed.


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