What was the last xp change here?

I can't find the change but you increased xp cost, right?

Was that just for higher levels or period?

I took a break from 50 and messed around with soloing a bit at lower levels and even with eggs im finding the sub 20 to be a pretty big grind,

Granted I'm solo.

On live at launch there will be issues with not enough mobs.

After launch when pop slows down there will be issues with not enough xp groups.

After 20 there are xp items, but sub 20 the xp items not so common.

After 20 you can hit a bg to relieve boredom, you can get money to craft, you can do whatever.

So what was the last change?

Sun 18 Nov 2018 12:09 PM by relvinian

XP is still quite slow. Particularly solo xp.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 4:27 PM by Geek

Didn't they adjust the xp to be slower for solo as a penalty for not grouping? That's the way I see it anyway.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 5:14 PM by relvinian

They had a plan for getting to 50 in a certain time. They found that people got there faster than that planned time so they added xp required to gain levels. Not sure if it kicked in from 0 or 40.

As we focus on other things we should not lose track that the first thing for every character is getting there.

And not everyone wants to group. I'm finding it slow and tedious solo.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 7:08 PM by cortexqc

2018-10-20 Saturday
Total Required XP per level has been increased

2018-11-1 Thursday
another round of required xp adjustment (still experimental, likely to see many more changes over the next days)

They nerfed xp twice since I50.
I don't know why nerf xp now... when players i50 and don't test leveling and don't give feedbacks.

before nerf leveling grouped or solo (with egg) was fun and not too hard and boring.
I think the collections task limited to 10 per level nerf is justified and was enough but they nerfed again...

I hope leveling his not going to be long and boring again... the reason with i stopped playing before 50 on uthgard.

I go create lvl 1 and test this xp changes...

Sun 18 Nov 2018 8:11 PM by relvinian

I'm not 100% sure I can even post since I tried twice to post in the poll comment section.

Thanks for the information on what changes were made.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 8:19 PM by

Uthred

That is only half of the truth. Yes, there were 2 times XP changes. But why?

Because we added so much extra XP (personal pve-tasks for example) since the last calculation, that we had to increase the XP rate.

48h is the goal for a casual grp to reach lvl 50. That is since day 1 of this server our goal and thats why we had to change the XP rate. After the last XP change we were testing and our test-grp (2 healers, 1 shaman, 1 warr, 1 thane, 1 sm, 1 skald, 1 svg) would have made it to lvl 50 in roundabout 34h played. So a casual grp will easily make it to lvl 50 in 48h. A better/optimiszed grp than our testgrp will make it even in less than 34h.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:18 PM by cortexqc

8 groups bomb player is the "best ideal xp group on daoc" it's not "casual group"

sure group bomb xp is fast and yes they can rush 50 under 48h but this is the only way if you want casual group to up 50 around 48h.

and on the other side what about solo/duo small group ? the nerf have a big impact on this players. hope you think about them cause really much player play solo duo or little group cause :
- they can't find group (class/spec not loved)
- they play outside of mass player hours (no groups playing).
- they play little game sessions and don't have time to find group or make big group.
- After the rush of release leveling players be more rare days after days

We understand actually 8 man pbaoe group need to be balanced but please don't forget other players and "real casual group" cause each global xp nerf affect all players.
maybe need counter mesure to nerf global big group xp without impacting too much others.
- maybe you can boost eggs a little ex: you nerf 30% global xp but boost 30% eggs xp or loot ratio.
- maybe eggs can be extend to small group (spliting loot). exemple (at lvl30) : you get 30eggs on yellow when solo, 15 for each player if duo, 10 if trio, 7 if four player. and no eggs for 5+ groups players.

5+ groups can start to be really efficient and chain monsters.

This way you can nerf 8 man groups but balance the nerf for solo/small group, and you incentivise to make small group 2 to 4 players even for casual playing small sessions or player playing outside mass players hours

Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:37 PM by

Uthred

Our testgrp had only 1 bomb, rest melee classes and we would have needed only 34h to make it to 50. So you will make it to lvl 50 in less than 48h if you dont have a full bomb-grp.

cortexqc wrote: and on the other side what about solo/duo small group ? the nerf have a big impact on this players. hope you think about them cause really much player play solo duo or little group cause :
- they can't find group (class/spec not loved) ---> thats why we put in the social xp bonus.
- they play outside of mass player hours (no groups playing). --> thats why we put in the eggs & personal pve tasks.
- they play little game sessions and don't have time to find group or make big group.--> thats why we put in the /train-command. Players dont lose time because of running to their trainers, but can easily train in the field.
- After the rush of release leveling players be more rare days after days ---> thats why we put in the long-term realmwide pve-tasks. Everytime one of those is completed, the realm gets a permanent 1% xp bonus on that mob-category (for example demons, animals, etc). After the rush at the beginning, every realm will have a nice permanent bonus xp on different mob types. Side effect of this is, that the full pbaoe grp which kills a lot of mobs very fast, will help this way the solo/smallmen xp-groups.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:40 PM by relvinian

48 hours /played in front of the pc is all well and good for that optimal hardcore player in his mom's basement.

I figure you can probably double that for a solo player.

Still seems kinds of intensive I think you might try adjusting egg drops or something.

For someone who plays 3 hours a day it might take a month to solo.

The first hardcore 50 will probably be in about 4-5 days.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:49 PM by defiasbandit

Somebody is gonna hit level 50 the first day probably.

Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:50 PM by cortexqc

Uthred wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:37 PM
Our testgrp had only 1 bomb, rest melee classes and we would have needed only 34h to make it to 50. So you will make it to lvl 50 in less than 48h if you dont have a full bomb-grp.
cortexqc wrote: and on the other side what about solo/duo small group ? the nerf have a big impact on this players. hope you think about them cause really much player play solo duo or little group cause :
- they can't find group (class/spec not loved) ---> thats why we put in the social xp bonus.
- they play outside of mass player hours (no groups playing). --> thats why we put in the eggs & personal pve tasks.
- they play little game sessions and don't have time to find group or make big group.--> thats why we put in the /train-command. Players dont lose time because of running to their trainers, but can easily train in the field.
- After the rush of release leveling players be more rare days after days ---> thats why we put in the long-term realmwide pve-tasks. Everytime one of those is completed, the realm gets a permanent 1% xp bonus on that mob-category (for example demons, animals, etc). After the rush at the beginning, every realm will have a nice permanent bonus xp on different mob types. Side effect of this is, that the full pbaoe grp which kills a lot of mobs very fast, will help this way the solo/smallmen xp-groups.

thx for the fast answer i know about all that, social, eggs and trainer and this is point why i lovre playing on phoenix. i check the last point about realm pve task. cause for now i have the same feeling than relvinian, i'm starting new char (solo) and xp it seem to be longer than before even at really low level. i continue testing solo xp.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 2:27 AM by

gruenesschaf

The personal tasks should especially help those with only a couple hours per day, due to the daily reset of their requirements it should be possible to complete the first few levels of some tasks in a day even with only an hour or two. These tasks basically act as rest xp (except it doesn't accumulate).

Mon 19 Nov 2018 3:54 AM by relvinian

Do personal tasks reset or does it keep a record for the life of the character?

Everything helps but while we are still in beta, and since you tweaked it based on groups, perhaps a little solo xp love would not hurt.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 1:14 PM by relvinian

Also noticed that killing yellow mobs not advancing personal tasks.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 1:53 PM by

Uthred

Mobs need to be the same level like you or higher to count for pve tasks (when you are solo). If you are lvl 49 and the mob is lvl 46 it is shown to you as a yellow mob, but will not count for the pve tasks. In lower levels (i think till lvl 10 or 15), even blue mobs count for pve tasks (when solo).

If you are grouped, the mob needs to be at least one level above the highest player in group.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 7:35 PM by Cadebrennus

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:49 PM
Somebody is gonna hit level 50 the first day probably.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 8:20 PM by relvinian

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 19 Nov 2018 1:53 PM
Mobs need to be the same level like you or higher to count for pve tasks (when you are solo). If you are lvl 49 and the mob is lvl 46 it is shown to you as a yellow mob, but will not count for the pve tasks. In lower levels (i think till lvl 10 or 15), even blue mobs count for pve tasks (when solo).

If you are grouped, the mob needs to be at least one level above the highest player in group.

Then a good change would be any yellow mob counts. I killed mobs for an hour and a half and did not get the task.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 8:21 PM by relvinian

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 19 Nov 2018 7:35 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Nov 2018 10:49 PM
Somebody is gonna hit level 50 the first day probably.

Scary how much I resemble this.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 8:38 PM by Takii

Yeah I agree... There is literally no way to tell the level of a mob in this game past a certain player level, so the requirement should be based on con, not level.

Mon 19 Nov 2018 8:59 PM by

gruenesschaf

There is an easy way to tell if the mob was your level: it gives credit towards the task :p

Yeah I'll look into making it count for all yellows when solo and include blue before 10.

Tue 20 Nov 2018 12:29 AM by cortexqc

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 19 Nov 2018 8:59 PM
There is an easy way to tell if the mob was your level: it gives credit towards the task :p

Yeah I'll look into making it count for all yellows when solo and include blue before 10.

hitting bleu and yellow in nisse with my zerk 15mn ago and count not changed thinking about a bug ^^

thx for future mob con change ! and thx for all you communications and phoenix team works.

Tue 20 Nov 2018 2:19 PM by relvinian

For example in cornwall on my 17 necro I can kill small skeleton centurians which con yellow and get no credit.

At level 16 on my test inf, I can kill the same mobs and get credit for the yellows.

I'm at a sliver of health on the inf vs the higher level mobs in the spawn, and then have to sit and regen health.

On the necro its not too difficult to kill these but im getting no credit at all for the personal task.

So am I supposed to run all over the universe trying to find the perfect spawn which can change with 1 level?

On the inf the same spawn which gives credit is very difficult on some mobs leaving me at a sliver, but when I ding, then I don't get credit anymore from the same spawn.

Please consider rolling back some of the xp increase. And or increase eggs. and or reduce personal task requirements to just yellow. How about blue before 20? Yeah I know im a greedy bastard. But once people are 20 they can at least break up the monotony with bgs.

Tue 20 Nov 2018 4:12 PM by Sepplord

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 20 Nov 2018 2:19 PM
For example in cornwall on my 17 necro I can kill small skeleton centurians which con yellow and get no credit.

At level 16 on my test inf, I can kill the same mobs and get credit for the yellows.

I'm at a sliver of health on the inf vs the higher level mobs in the spawn, and then have to sit and regen health.

On the necro its not too difficult to kill these but im getting no credit at all for the personal task.

So am I supposed to run all over the universe trying to find the perfect spawn which can change with 1 level?

On the inf the same spawn which gives credit is very difficult on some mobs leaving me at a sliver, but when I ding, then I don't get credit anymore from the same spawn.

Please consider rolling back some of the xp increase. And or increase eggs. and or reduce personal task requirements to just yellow. How about blue before 20? Yeah I know im a greedy bastard. But once people are 20 they can at least break up the monotony with bgs.

just two comments above yours, gruenesschaf has already confirmed that he/she will change it to make a yellow cons count...

Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:57 PM by relvinian

Great. I spent 2 hours this morning getting one level on a 16 inf including eggs and tasks.

Do pets take xp now, that is another question I want to ask.

Killing yellow frontier mob in my 17 necro barely registered xp movement.

Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:06 AM by Sepplord

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:57 PM
Great. I spent 2 hours this morning getting one level on a 16 inf including eggs and tasks.

Do pets take xp now, that is another question I want to ask.

Killing yellow frontier mob in my 17 necro barely registered xp movement.

that sounds terrifying....

i was hoping for faster leveling for solos/smallmen...but if that is the norm then i hope my friends won't all quit over the grind

the only thing that got them interested was when i told them that it doesn't even compare to uthgard and that they should be easily able to level in about 50hours...

if that's only possible with constantly having a fullgroup...i would be sad (and it doesn't really matter that a good fullgrp can do it in 30hours...most people will be spending 30minutes finding a group and then will have to go after 60to90 minutes...having a fullgrp for hours and hours will not be the average for the casual that plays without a set group)

Wed 21 Nov 2018 4:22 AM by relvinian

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Nov 2018 3:06 AM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 20 Nov 2018 7:57 PM
Great. I spent 2 hours this morning getting one level on a 16 inf including eggs and tasks.

Do pets take xp now, that is another question I want to ask.

Killing yellow frontier mob in my 17 necro barely registered xp movement.

that sounds terrifying....

i was hoping for faster leveling for solos/smallmen...but if that is the norm then i hope my friends won't all quit over the grind

the only thing that got them interested was when i told them that it doesn't even compare to uthgard and that they should be easily able to level in about 50hours...

if that's only possible with constantly having a fullgroup...i would be sad (and it doesn't really matter that a good fullgrp can do it in 30hours...most people will be spending 30minutes finding a group and then will have to go after 60to90 minutes...having a fullgrp for hours and hours will not be the average for the casual that plays without a set group)

What you are saying is the ENTIRE point of my testing and my posts.

Devs wanted xp at a certain speed they found it a little faster so they nerfed it twice.

Nobody will ever quit a server because xp is 20% too fast.

But many players have and will quit if xp is too slow. And this is beta, we better fix it now.

Wed 21 Nov 2018 9:52 AM by

Uthred

Pets dont "steal" xp on our server. They never did and they never will.

Schaf and I watched you (creeeeeepy, right?) some days ago while you were leveling the infi. You were leveling without any bonus (no tinder, no fz, no dungeon, no xp items, no multiple bonus for pve tasks [ for example: demons in df are fz, dungeon and demon pve task with one mob kill]) and you picked a class, that isnt easy to solo xp. So yes, a solo infi will take some time to level, if you dont want to use any of the multiple bonuses we are offering. Besides that, you are missing the biggest bonus, xping within a grp.

But back to solo xp. Why dont we just increase the exp for eggs? Simple answer: Because some classes would be too OP then. Just think of a solo mana mentalist. With all the big spots of mobs that we are offering and the high respawn timer (60-90 secs), it is already very easy to level it up. Just dot and run and you are lvl 50 in "no" time. How are we able to balance this?

If you are picking a class that is "hard" to solo level and if you are refusing to use all the different bonuses that we build in, yes, then it will take some time. As Schaf already said some posts before, he will change that every yellow con mob will count for pve tasks (when being solo) and maybe (!!!) we will put in some more xp items for lower levels, but dont except anything else to happen.

There is a reason why we put in all those bonuses and all those QoLs that help you level up very fast. We are not forcing anyone to use them, but if you dont use them, then you will not exp as fast as you easily could. It was always the "vision" of this team that this is a multiplayer game and that we dont want people to xp on their own like it is nowadays in many "modern" games.

Wed 21 Nov 2018 12:41 PM by relvinian

What was I wearing?

As to where I was xping I was looking for a base line.

BTW, xp items will be camped probably-- It was a good change to make one useable per level I think.

Good camps will be camped. And people will be forced to xp in those spots.

Infs and other undesirables will be forced to go to less popular camps.

Basically hardcore players will get to 50 in a couple of days I just want some mechanism to make sure we don't lose or turn off the casual player.

We want to get the casual involved. At least get them into the bgs and find a way to make them fun.

Note: the same spawn with different yellows can be 65% to 90% of base xp based on the level range. So maybe some of the lousy xp was respawning lower levels.

Wed 21 Nov 2018 1:43 PM by Ceen

Revi, always trying to find the most effective way to maximize his xp time / lvl.
Everyone knows a weirdo, forum users do know at least two

Wed 21 Nov 2018 2:33 PM by Thinal

Amen to Relvinian. His assumptions are likely spot-on for what release will be like for an assassin class: low priority in groups, low ability to compete at camped spawns for either popular or XP-item creatures.

My own plan had been to level a farm class first and get at least alchemy on him, assuming ROGs are going to be sufficient and I can belay crafting suits. (Wow, nobody else ever thought of that...) The problem with that plan is that I'm very comfortable on an Animist (I actually LIKE playing them, not just as a farmer), but it appears that game dynamics are going to push me toward Midgard. (Partly Emain, partly custom Phoenix changes.) Perhaps I'll love bonedancers just as much, but more likely it's gonna be a chore where the BD is a means to a long, boring end rather than fun in and of itself. Add on top of that, I'm not as familiar with the home realm.

2 hours per level solo without boosts should be about right 40+, maybe even 30+, but not <20. I think I did better on Uthgard. Do take note that the #1 complaint there over the whole time it's been open is that XP IS TOO SLOW. Please learn from their mistakes.

Wed 21 Nov 2018 8:28 PM by relvinian

They put in a lot of nice changes here.

1. Tasks.
2. Eggs.
3. XP items.
4. Class bonus for groups.
5. Frontier and dungeon bonuses.

Then they nerfed xp twice by increasing the amount It requires to level.

Wed 21 Nov 2018 11:21 PM by Waygone

I wholeheartedly agree with Relv on this one. Full groups were buffed with pve tasks as they can mow through mobs to complete tasks ALOT faster than solo. Hence, the XP nerf hit soloers hard. If there's any way devs could adjust Phoenix egg drop rate that would be good compensation to the nerf w/o buffing XP for groups.
Just something to consider.
Maybe @Relvinian can comment on any further testing and keep post updated.
Appreciate your work man!😊

Thu 22 Nov 2018 5:08 AM by cortexqc

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Nov 2018 9:52 AM
But back to solo xp. Why dont we just increase the exp for eggs? Simple answer: Because some classes would be too OP then. Just think of a solo mana mentalist. With all the big spots of mobs that we are offering and the high respawn timer (60-90 secs), it is already very easy to level it up. Just dot and run and you are lvl 50 in "no" time. How are we able to balance this?

even on live and on all patch level classes like
mid : cave sham / SM
alb : caba matter / necro
Hib : animist / menta / enchant
all have advantage soloing very fast killing yellow big packs game is design to be unbalanded like this... this is like daoc is...

The question is do you really want to have 32/39 (80%) classes xp speed when solo (too long, boring) to don't help too much 7 (20%) classes that already advantage and no difficulty in solo pve (and much of them are on top loved class group mate)

I'm working on process enhancement and i'm product owner of an IT app feeding backlog with new features for devs. when you are front of somethink can't be perfect i'm sure you know about the rule of 80/20. when you try to find a solution or apply a change you can't satisfied all user's... but at least try to have a good impact for 80% of them.

like already said by someone in the post, you never loose the 20% of players xp leveling a little too fast (op leveling solo class) but you have chances to loose much players alone/playing with the other classes 80% on low pop hours who can't group and boring to do grind. we are speaking of a leveling change (solo only) not change 7 classes making them OP in pve for high end 50+ PVE or with RvR impact. The fun in Daoc is not the 1 to 50 even if sometime groups are socially really fun

, too slow solo in not funny (nightmare on live at this patch level and boring on uthgard even with their recently group changes).

in all case do what do you think the best.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 5:50 AM by defiasbandit

We certainly don't want players leaving the server because they get bored leveling. There must be a good balance that can be struck. Perhaps we have it currently. I am unsure.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 8:01 AM by Waygone

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Nov 2018 9:52 AM
But back to solo xp. Why dont we just increase the exp for eggs? Simple answer: Because some classes would be too OP then. Just think of a solo mana mentalist. With all the big spots of mobs that we are offering and the high respawn timer (60-90 secs), it is already very easy to level it up. Just dot and run and you are lvl 50 in "no" time. How are we able to balance this?
/quote]
I know there used to be a cap on eggs per hour farmed. I'm assuming that is still the case?
If so, the so-called OP farmers could be regulated by easily adjusting that number to correspond to a proper "rate" of XP gain. Since that is implemented, it blows up the farming class argument. (Especially since eggs are untradable)
No reason not to make soloers/casuals a little more friendly in this regard.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 1:20 PM by relvinian

I'm actually in forest sauvage right now testing xp. I cannot give solid numbers for my level in /played because I cheated and used the level command a few times.

I'm testing 2 different toons, an inf and a necro.

Sight necro can mow down yellows in chain fairly quickly. Inf can do pretty good job on low yellows but they have to sit afterwards.

Eggs really do not give that much of an incentive. They are very powerful at lower levels but as you gain levels eggs are less important.

I would describe what I am seeing solo as "Uthgard lite" for xp.

Personal tasks give you basically an extra bubble or two per xp session.

What im seeing solo is essentially--

Uthgard leveling experience +1-2 bubbles for personal task+ 1-2 levels for egg turn in-- based on a 1-2 hour xp solo session.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 2:27 PM by relvinian

I ran a brief pl test with 2 toons at lvl 1 and lvl 30 on my 50 pain necro.

Killing 5-6 blues at a time and killing 3-4 yellows or 2 oranges at a time.

I tried /xp off for me.

The two people I tested pl with reported that the xp was terrible.

They concluded that pl sucked. And that is their words.

Better to solo than to be in a group with a 50 necro.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 4:57 PM by Waygone

If those tests are reflective, I would much rather have the progression rate before tasks were added. I'd rather have personal tasks removed since they are only buffing grouped and strong farming classes.
Anytime someone compares something in game to Uthgard I cringe. Uthgard had alot of problems but, imo progression rate was by far the worst.

After i50 sure seemed like an interesting time to ninja nerf level progression. Right when no one will test it.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 5:52 PM by Geek

The devs go out of their way to increase XP by adding all kinds of goodies like eggs, tasks, etc.
-
The devs nerf XP
________________________
=
100% common sense.

Thu 22 Nov 2018 6:03 PM by relvinian

Waygone wrote: ↑
Thu 22 Nov 2018 4:57 PM
If those tests are reflective, I would much rather have the progression rate before tasks were added. I'd rather have personal tasks removed since they are only buffing grouped and strong farming classes.
Anytime someone compares something in game to Uthgard I cringe. Uthgard had alot of problems but, imo progression rate was by far the worst.

After i50 sure seemed like an interesting time to ninja nerf level progression. Right when no one will test it.

I tested it.

Just a beta lets balance and fix stuff now, that is why we are here.

Fri 23 Nov 2018 9:55 AM by Ceen

Can't balance a mmorpg around 90 players ^^

Fri 23 Nov 2018 1:25 PM by

Uthred

One thread about "how slow and uthgardlike our xp is" is enough, locked.

If you want to comment on the xp, use this thread pls ----> https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2996