New NNF RA's - Phoenix Freeshard

So I'm wondering, why this is happening at all?
Was there something wrong with the existing ones?
Why is this a server without TOA or NF yet we have those abilities?
Will you look to rework normal abilities to fit the new RA system?
Is Phoenix moving in a new direction and away from what was stated at its inception?
Do you see this creating yet again a larger gap between the casual player and the "pro" level player?
What is the Phonix' team vision now moving forward?

I thank you in advance for your answers.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 1:56 AM by Takii

Old RAs are just very unbalanced. They do provide more flavor to each realm at the cost of long term balance.

To be honest the existing system was already half custom (9 levels of RAs), this isn't that huge of a change.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 3:18 AM by defiasbandit

I hope they go back to old RAs.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 8:37 AM by Sei

There are dozen of posts on this forum arguing that old Ra are broken.

There are 0 arguing that they are fine, the only arguments given by pro old Ra is "classic = old Ra" or "please keep realm specifity with old Ra" ....

Wed 7 Nov 2018 9:51 AM by Oranius

I'm happy gms kick GP from hib

you cry to much about sos now we are all fair

Wed 7 Nov 2018 1:44 PM by

Uthred

Vack wrote: So I'm wondering, why this is happening at all?

Our intention was to first get the server ready for launch, then decide on the RA setting as there were different opions in the team about it. The last two weeks (with the launch in reach), we were discussing internally and made a voting with the result to put in NNF RAs.

Vack wrote: Was there something wrong with the existing ones?

See above.

Vack wrote: Why is this a server without TOA or NF yet we have those abilities?

See above.

Vack wrote: Will you look to rework normal abilities to fit the new RA system?

As we stated in the announcement about NNF RAs, we will do several adjustments/changes during the next days/weeks to fit the NNF RAs perfectly into our setting.

Vack wrote: Is Phoenix moving in a new direction and away from what was stated at its inception?

No, 1.65 is our basis with a lot of custom changes. There are no plans to move into another direction.

Vack wrote: Do you see this creating yet again a larger gap between the casual player and the "pro" level player?

Thats why we are adjusting the RAs to not create a big gap between casuals and 24/7 players. Some say that NNF RAs increase that gap, some say the opposite. Besides the RAs we are also putting in different things like the RvR-Tasks which allow players to easily get to RR 5. Players that dont have that much time to play will have this way a reasonable chance to get the basic RAs for RvR in a very short amount of time. But please keep in mind, that players that spent more time playing the game will always have an advantage to players that dont play that much.

Vack wrote: What is the Phonix' team vision now moving forward?
I thank you in advance for your answers.

Adjusting the RAs, having a final look at some classes, fixing the last bugs, cleaning up the server for launch, having a great christmas and after that having a hopefully smooth launch.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 2:04 PM by Renork

Does this mean Dodger will be eliminated? Poor friars/valewalkers, lol.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 4:38 PM by Cadebrennus

It's all pretty balanced except for PD. On live I avoided mid to high rank Casters with my Ranger because they had better physical damage mitigation than an Armsman or Paladin. I hope that isn't the case here.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 4:58 PM by Vack

@Uthred thank you for the response.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:04 PM by Vack

Sei wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Nov 2018 8:37 AM
There are dozen of posts on this forum arguing that old Ra are broken.

There are 0 arguing that they are fine, the only arguments given by pro old Ra is "classic = old Ra" or "please keep realm specifity with old Ra" ....

That’s your opinion, I am one that thought about 40-60 days ago the game was almost perfect. I debated the changes, and caught some traction here and there. This post was for those that are wondering why all of this is even happening. To many on the outside of the forums and the discord, the changes And the reasons why are not understood, and they question why they are on the table.

Uthred answered them to a good degree. I’d like more information, however I’m not on the dev team nor a gm, so I understand that.
I also understand this is still beta. My fear is the sampling for testing is now much smaller than it was 40-60 days ago, NA time anyway.
I hope that they are able to get enough data from the EU players.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:12 PM by Vack

On the talk of Group Purge, SOS, PR, Ichor, BoF, Etc.

Those were some of the abilities that made this game what it was. I feel there is a fine line between having a game as it was intended, three realms three separate ways of doing things, to making everything mirrored and less interesting, even with custom systems.

However I can see both sides of this debate. GP was quite nice and would reset the fight. SoS is very nice and resets the fights....etc etc.
custom 1.65 has been great, but again with many changes and the direction that we seem to be headed in, it smells more like Live in an old wrapper. Which again might not be terrible, I will wait to see what comes of it to decide if I give it time for play.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:25 PM by daocgod

Vack wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:12 PM
On the talk of Group Purge, SOS, PR, Ichor, BoF, Etc.

Those were some of the abilities that made this game what it was. I feel there is a fine line between having a game as it was intended, three realms three separate ways of doing things, to making everything mirrored and less interesting, even with custom systems.

However I can see both sides of this debate. GP was quite nice and would reset the fight. SoS is very nice and resets the fights....etc etc.
custom 1.65 has been great, but again with many changes and the direction that we seem to be headed in, it smells more like Live in an old wrapper. Which again might not be terrible, I will wait to see what comes of it to decide if I give it time for play.

Not only is SOS a 95% guaranteed win, but 30 minute timers on RA's makes the gameplay really slow. If there are multiple groups out and about you will still have SOS when you want to "outplay" that one group so its bullshit. The people that cry realm homogeneity probably don't even 8v8 or they would see the realms are still very much different in this version of DAoC

Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:52 PM by poisonclover

This RA system is so much better overall.. the defense abilities where just getting out of hand. Mo block,parry,evade etc etc was just flat out absurd. I'm glad they are gone. your stats and race now matter again. More damage (norse) more evade (valkyn).. As it should be.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 9:02 PM by Niix

The only people that want NNF RA's are the try hards that will be popping 5-10min timers on everyone cuz why not only furthering the discrepancy of 'skill' and the people that just don't understand the game well enough to make informed decisions. It's no secret the selfish better players in this game want NNF RA's, wonder why? maybe question it before jumping to it.... just cuz they know the game doesn't mean they care about the health of the server which is 100% dependent on population and most of population aren't those try hards.

This will not be a change that works out for the betterment of the server without massive changes to NNF RA's values and timers which I doubt we will see.

I lack total understanding why this was done before even TRYING to adjust SoS/GP/BoF/Ichor/AM, there has been tons of posts about ideas on solving the oppressive feeling of those RA's. Even simply reducing the duration of SoS/BoF/AM would be huge into balancing them, and lets be honest people would still spend the RP value on them cuz even 10s sos is worth 10 points.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:57 PM by relvinian

I thought it was pretty balanced and working well. I thought a few tweaks here and there on dmg, which I felt was a bit high, might have been in order. But at the same time not everyone is going to have uber everything so I thought overall things were more or less fine.

Now they changed the ras and I no longer see it as balanced. I see a lot more "burst" with all these special timed abilities. And basically, in my opinion, high rr toons and elite players will own MORE than they did with old RA.

I feel like there will be less viable specs/classes/ra choices, and more min/maxxed optimized elite players vs those who can eat cake.

That being said, im sure it can be tweaked and balanced, but it sure isn't right now.

Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:59 PM by relvinian

Niix wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Nov 2018 9:02 PM
The only people that want NNF RA's are the try hards that will be popping 5-10min timers on everyone cuz why not only furthering the discrepancy of 'skill' and the people that just don't understand the game well enough to make informed decisions. It's no secret the selfish better players in this game want NNF RA's, wonder why? maybe question it before jumping to it.... just cuz they know the game doesn't mean they care about the health of the server which is 100% dependent on population and most of population aren't those try hards.

This will not be a change that works out for the betterment of the server without massive changes to NNF RA's values and timers which I doubt we will see.

I lack total understanding why this was done before even TRYING to adjust SoS/GP/BoF/Ichor/AM, there has been tons of posts about ideas on solving the oppressive feeling of those RA's. Even simply reducing the duration of SoS/BoF/AM would be huge into balancing them, and lets be honest people would still spend the RP value on them cuz even 10s sos is worth 10 points.

I dislike all those timed ras and feel like they will increase gap between low and high rr and encourage people to wait for their timers to pop up to solo, therefore making solo even more elite only.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 1:37 AM by Expfighter

Mid September 2018, this server was 99.9999 perfect in xp gain and RVR stuff! Then came the RA changes to make it generic across realms and then the item wipe, now this NNNF RA BS, and i no longer want to play this. I already have 60+ lvl 50's on live that i don't play because of the op'ed GARBAGE changes!

This server is heading in that VERY direction!

Thu 8 Nov 2018 7:58 AM by Cadebrennus

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 1:37 AM
Mid September 2018, this server was 99.9999 perfect in xp gain and RVR stuff! Then came the RA changes to make it generic across realms and then the item wipe, now this NNNF RA BS, and i no longer want to play this. I already have 60+ lvl 50's on live that i don't play because of the op'ed GARBAGE changes!

This server is heading in that VERY direction!

Thu 8 Nov 2018 8:46 AM by Druth

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 1:37 AM
Mid September 2018, this server was 99.9999 perfect in xp gain and RVR stuff! Then came the RA changes to make it generic across realms and then the item wipe, now this NNNF RA BS, and i no longer want to play this. I already have 60+ lvl 50's on live that i don't play because of the op'ed GARBAGE changes!

This server is heading in that VERY direction!

You hopefully realize "perfect" is highly subjective, and that while you might have thought it was perfect, some players saw major balance issues?
My hope for the server was a server that would not remain in a stasis like Uthgard, and ignore any balance issues because it was 1.65.

And I seem to have gotten what I wished for.

Will they make major mistakes and nerf/buff "unjustified"? Of course! That is the constant risk all people face when they don't just remain passive. But unlike Uthgard they have shown a will of not stubbornly sticking to changes and actually reverse them if they were bad.
I like this.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 1:44 PM by Pretissimo

i am fine with both systems i would only change some minor things

old ra: SOS to 10s timer and/or loss after offensive action

new ra: PD / Charge balance to compensate bodyguard somehow

Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:03 PM by Thinal

CC was WAY out of hand. If the only thing we got out of this change that was good was the ability to RA down to 5min purge, and everything else was horrible, then the change would be entirely worth it.

Determination was just custom made cheaper too, indication that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Stuns and mezz are super cheap and easy across many classes. This game is not about managing damage and heals; it's about applying and breaking CC to the extent where DPS is surprisingly low on the list.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:58 PM by Niix

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 1:44 PM
i am fine with both systems i would only change some minor things

old ra: SOS to 10s timer and/or loss after offensive action

new ra: PD / Charge balance to compensate bodyguard somehow

Confused, there is no bodyguard? Guard + engage is already body guard against 1 target and that's stupid and should be changed.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:22 PM by keen

How would you engage someone in RvR, your targets needs to be out of combat for that. Quiet unrealistic.
Engage is usefull in 1v1, but everything bigger than that, you will not be able to engage anyway.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 5:02 PM by Pretissimo

Niix wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:58 PM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 1:44 PM
i am fine with both systems i would only change some minor things

old ra: SOS to 10s timer and/or loss after offensive action

new ra: PD / Charge balance to compensate bodyguard somehow

Confused, there is no bodyguard? Guard + engage is already body guard against 1 target and that's stupid and should be changed.

yes, and because there is no bodyguard... charge is to strong. therefor you have to compensate the missing bodyguard somehow (PD or lower Charge time or whatever)

not sure if you can get to 80% with guard + engage... somebody testet?

Thu 8 Nov 2018 5:09 PM by Takii

I don't think you can compare guard + engage to ToA bodyguard... Real BG is 100% attack prevention and I'm pretty sure the tank could also attack? It's been a while since I played ToA.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 9:59 PM by Sepplord

keen wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:22 PM
How would you engage someone in RvR, your targets needs to be out of combat for that. Quiet unrealistic.
Engage is usefull in 1v1, but everything bigger than that, you will not be able to engage anyway.

I haven't heard about that requirement, are you sure that is the case?

And how would it be useful in 1vs1? When you engage someone you stop attacking to focus on blocking...that will not help in a 1vs1

Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:36 PM by keen

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 9:59 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:22 PM
How would you engage someone in RvR, your targets needs to be out of combat for that. Quiet unrealistic.
Engage is usefull in 1v1, but everything bigger than that, you will not be able to engage anyway.

I haven't heard about that requirement, are you sure that is the case?

And how would it be useful in 1vs1? When you engage someone you stop attacking to focus on blocking...that will not help in a 1vs1

I'm sure about that one. Out of combat means that he hasn't been hit the last 10sec and didn't get casts debuts etc within that timeframe ascwell. In 1v1 you use engage to wait that your opponents stun immunity fades.

Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:45 PM by Kronin

I have noticed on Phoenix I can be fighting someone they have already hit me and been in combat and engage still works. I always understood that engage only works if the person engaged did the ability before combat, but once combat started they could not engage. (this is totally of my live memory could be wrong)

Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:02 AM by Vack

daocgod wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:25 PM
Not only is SOS a 95% guaranteed win, but 30 minute timers on RA's makes the gameplay really slow. If there are multiple groups out and about you will still have SOS when you want to "outplay" that one group so its bullshit. The people that cry realm homogeneity probably don't even 8v8 or they would see the realms are still very much different in this version of DAoC

This game is not only an 8v8 game. Also not everyone goes and logs off until their timers are up like the 8 mans do. Some people actually keep playing. IMO the 8 man folks are the reason we have game breaking abilities like 5 minute purge in the game to begin with. I understand your play, but the game is nor never was intended to be played in that manner.

Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:04 AM by Vack

Thinal wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:03 PM
CC was WAY out of hand. If the only thing we got out of this change that was good was the ability to RA down to 5min purge, and everything else was horrible, then the change would be entirely worth it.

Determination was just custom made cheaper too, indication that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Stuns and mezz are super cheap and easy across many classes. This game is not about managing damage and heals; it's about applying and breaking CC to the extent where DPS is surprisingly low on the list.

I agree CC is crazy and out of hand, however for a custom game why not just increase the immunity timer 2 or 3 fold, instead of giving live RA's for a game that is not live. That's my question in reality. There are easier ways that don't upset the balance cart.

Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:55 AM by Niix

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 5:02 PM
yes, and because there is no bodyguard... charge is to strong. therefor you have to compensate the missing bodyguard somehow (PD or lower Charge time or whatever)

not sure if you can get to 80% with guard + engage... somebody testet?

There is no charge in the game atm, which now makes PD too strong (however, it was nerfed to 20% recently).

You can get to well over 80% with guard+engage against non dual wield class.

Fri 9 Nov 2018 11:45 AM by Pretissimo

Niix wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:55 AM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Nov 2018 5:02 PM
yes, and because there is no bodyguard... charge is to strong. therefor you have to compensate the missing bodyguard somehow (PD or lower Charge time or whatever)

not sure if you can get to 80% with guard + engage... somebody testet?

There is no charge in the game atm, which now makes PD too strong (however, it was nerfed to 20% recently).

You can get to well over 80% with guard+engage against non dual wield class.

yes i know but i think they have to implement it in my opinion... caster/hybrid groups are way to strong atm. Would be nice to see more melee groups out there.

If they dont want to implement charge maybe a hp buff for melees could help... if i remember right they did something like that back in the days with 1.8X

Fri 9 Nov 2018 4:14 PM by Isavyr

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Nov 2018 11:45 AM
If they dont want to implement charge maybe a hp buff for melees could help... if i remember right they did something like that back in the days with 1.8X

This is run-away balancing. Address the problem, not create new problems (more hp). Casters have always hit like this--so what's the problem?

If the problem is that melee aren't doing as much damage to casters with PD, then PD is the problem, not caster damage, nor melee HP. Anyway, PD just received a nerf, though I haven't been able to check it out since I've been playing a bard.

How prevalent/worthwhile is PD currently? (20% max)

Sun 11 Nov 2018 4:40 PM by Word

That is disappointing.

Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:12 AM by Icculus

This is terrible. How can you beta test for this long and implement such a fundamental change this far along in the beta? I feel the entire testing cycle needs to restart with this change. I feel like I just wasted my entire play time in beta (i know, its beta. blah). You put so much emphasis on evaluating balance and progression before i50 and now you just reset the entire meta. What the fuck guys. I actually think new RAs are a better system but I will not be playing live if there is no consistency in fundamental game mechanics.

Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:45 AM by Waygone

Icculus wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:12 AM
This is terrible. How can you beta test for this long and implement such a fundamental change this far along in the beta? I feel the entire testing cycle needs to restart with this change. I feel like I just wasted my entire play time in beta (i know, its beta. blah). You put so much emphasis on evaluating balance and progression before i50 and now you just reset the entire meta. What the fuck guys. I actually think new RAs are a better system but I will not be playing live if there is no consistency in fundamental game mechanics.

Ok, what part of beta test dont you understand?
Are they supposed to ignore a "better system" even though it's superior? That would be foolish and stubborn. I like that they have the desire to make such improvements during a test periodprior to launch. It would be a damn shame to miss out on playing a better game because it's better than what I've been used to playing.

Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:52 AM by Icculus

Waygone wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:45 AM
Icculus wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:12 AM
This is terrible. How can you beta test for this long and implement such a fundamental change this far along in the beta? I feel the entire testing cycle needs to restart with this change. I feel like I just wasted my entire play time in beta (i know, its beta. blah). You put so much emphasis on evaluating balance and progression before i50 and now you just reset the entire meta. What the fuck guys. I actually think new RAs are a better system but I will not be playing live if there is no consistency in fundamental game mechanics.
Ok, what part of beta test dont you understand?
Are they supposed to ignore a "better system" even though it's superior? That would be foolish and stubborn. I like that they have the desire to make such improvements during a test periodprior to launch. It would be a damn shame to miss out on playing a better game because it's better than what I've been used to playing.

I get what you're saying, and I'm most certainly just reacting impulsively (as you can probably tell from my posts across multiple threads :p). I thought this server should have new RA from the start. But after this much testing, it's a different game. Is it better? Maybe. But it's not what we tested. Just turns me off. /2cents

Tue 13 Nov 2018 2:29 PM by Magesty

Icculus wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:12 AM
This is terrible. How can you beta test for this long and implement such a fundamental change this far along in the beta? I feel the entire testing cycle needs to restart with this change. I feel like I just wasted my entire play time in beta (i know, its beta. blah). You put so much emphasis on evaluating balance and progression before i50 and now you just reset the entire meta. What the fuck guys. I actually think new RAs are a better system but I will not be playing live if there is no consistency in fundamental game mechanics.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&p=17722&sid=9fa06cf3c0388560f040ab4db79d1891#p17722

Step into yesterday and check out the official response in this thread. It should help ease your mind. I think you are being too hasty in your evaluation of the importance of RAs when it comes to development time. It’s almost like you’re jumping in to the river with your armor still on.

Wed 14 Nov 2018 10:40 PM by Joc

Niix wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Nov 2018 9:02 PM
The only people that want NNF RA's are the try hards that will be popping 5-10min timers on everyone cuz why not only furthering the discrepancy of 'skill' and the people that just don't understand the game well enough to make informed decisions. It's no secret the selfish better players in this game want NNF RA's, wonder why? maybe question it before jumping to it.... just cuz they know the game doesn't mean they care about the health of the server which is 100% dependent on population and most of population aren't those try hards.

This will not be a change that works out for the betterment of the server without massive changes to NNF RA's values and timers which I doubt we will see.

I lack total understanding why this was done before even TRYING to adjust SoS/GP/BoF/Ichor/AM, there has been tons of posts about ideas on solving the oppressive feeling of those RA's. Even simply reducing the duration of SoS/BoF/AM would be huge into balancing them, and lets be honest people would still spend the RP value on them cuz even 10s sos is worth 10 points.

I'm just sick of eating 9s stuns when I solo. That reason alone is why I wanted new ras. Yes I could purge every 30minutes but that doesn't help the fight 10 minutes from now.

Thu 15 Nov 2018 6:55 AM by Druth

Joc wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Nov 2018 10:40 PM
I'm just sick of eating 9s stuns when I solo. That reason alone is why I wanted new ras. Yes I could purge every 30minutes but that doesn't help the fight 10 minutes from now.

You can litterally watch your opponent spamming slam due to the animation, until it lands.

NF Purge makes that a whole lot less annoying, because you now know you have long stun immunity.

Thu 15 Nov 2018 6:27 PM by Cadebrennus

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Nov 2018 4:14 PM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Nov 2018 11:45 AM
If they dont want to implement charge maybe a hp buff for melees could help... if i remember right they did something like that back in the days with 1.8X

This is run-away balancing. Address the problem, not create new problems (more hp). Casters have always hit like this--so what's the problem?

If the problem is that melee aren't doing as much damage to casters with PD, then PD is the problem, not caster damage, nor melee HP. Anyway, PD just received a nerf, though I haven't been able to check it out since I've been playing a bard.

How prevalent/worthwhile is PD currently? (20% max)

I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but a couple of nights ago there was one caster I ran into a few times who I hit in melee for approximately the same amount as i was hitting Clerics and Minstrels in chainmail armor.

Fri 16 Nov 2018 6:50 AM by Druth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 15 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but a couple of nights ago there was one caster I ran into a few times who I hit in melee for approximately the same amount as i was hitting Clerics and Minstrels in chainmail armor.

Hard to say if it's correct without more info.

You already know this... but staff is dex based, and with a slow staff and caster dex, you can hit pretty hard. You will miss a lot due to low ws, and you wont hit fast.

Fri 16 Nov 2018 7:34 AM by Cadebrennus

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 6:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 15 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but a couple of nights ago there was one caster I ran into a few times who I hit in melee for approximately the same amount as i was hitting Clerics and Minstrels in chainmail armor.

Hard to say if it's correct without more info.

You already know this... but staff is dex based, and with a slow staff and caster dex, you can hit pretty hard. You will miss a lot due to low ws, and you wont hit fast.

Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. I was playing the Ranger (as usual) who has 50 Blades which is a damage type that is neutral to all Alb

Fri 16 Nov 2018 8:46 AM by Druth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 7:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 6:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 15 Nov 2018 6:27 PM
I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but a couple of nights ago there was one caster I ran into a few times who I hit in melee for approximately the same amount as i was hitting Clerics and Minstrels in chainmail armor.

Hard to say if it's correct without more info.

You already know this... but staff is dex based, and with a slow staff and caster dex, you can hit pretty hard. You will miss a lot due to low ws, and you wont hit fast.

Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. I was playing the Ranger (as usual) who has 50 Blades which is a damage type that is neutral to all Alb

You say you met a caster who hit you for the same you hit chainmail for.

1) Staff is crush.
2) Staff is dex based
3) How fast did he hit? Dps is not the same as damage. Using slow staff he might hit you for large numbers, but really slow.

Fri 16 Nov 2018 9:38 AM by Falken

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 8:46 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 7:34 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 6:50 AM
Hard to say if it's correct without more info.

You already know this... but staff is dex based, and with a slow staff and caster dex, you can hit pretty hard. You will miss a lot due to low ws, and you wont hit fast.

Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. I was playing the Ranger (as usual) who has 50 Blades which is a damage type that is neutral to all Alb

You say you met a caster who hit you for the same you hit chainmail for.

1) Staff is crush.
2) Staff is dex based
3) How fast did he hit? Dps is not the same as damage. Using slow staff he might hit you for large numbers, but really slow.

Re-read his original post... #readingcomprehensionOP

Here you go I will underline the elements in which you are likely misreading: I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but a couple of nights ago there was one caster I ran into a few times who I hit in meleefor approximately the same amount as i was hitting Clerics and Minstrels in chainmail armor.

Fri 16 Nov 2018 10:14 AM by Druth

Falken wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 9:38 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 8:46 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Nov 2018 7:34 AM
Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. I was playing the Ranger (as usual) who has 50 Blades which is a damage type that is neutral to all Alb

You say you met a caster who hit you for the same you hit chainmail for.

1) Staff is crush.
2) Staff is dex based
3) How fast did he hit? Dps is not the same as damage. Using slow staff he might hit you for large numbers, but really slow.

Re-read his original post... #readingcomprehensionOP

Here you go I will underline the elements in which you are likely misreading: I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but a couple of nights ago there was one caster I ran into a few times who I hit in meleefor approximately the same amount as i was hitting Clerics and Minstrels in chainmail armor.

Sense it makes now... issue was PD.
Thanks.