NNF Purge changed - Phoenix Freeshard

I had a suggestion regarding Purge as I think 5 mins is too low of a CD. My idea is only have 3 levels of purge and each level is immediate upon use. Total of 15 points.

Level 1 - 5 points (20 min cooldown)
Level 2 - 5 points (15 min cooldown)
Level 3 - 5 points (10 min cooldown)

I think this will still keep things balanced around all play styles. Wondering what everyone's thoughts on it was or if there was a different idea on it.

Does everyone like the 5 min purge CD for 30 points?

Sat 10 Nov 2018 12:51 AM by relvinian

Purge will be up in every solo fight.

Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:28 PM by defiasbandit

1.65 RvR wasn't balanced around 5 minute purge thats for sure. Lower purge is nice, but 5 minutes might just be too low.

Sun 11 Nov 2018 11:28 AM by Foadon

there is no reason to have purge on less than 15min cooldown. This would already be a major increase compared to OF 30min purge. Make it cost 10points like old purge, but put it on a 15min CD. having multiple levels of purge to decrease cd was ridicilous on live and is even more ridiculous with 1.65 setting IMHO

Sun 11 Nov 2018 1:37 PM by Ganaka

I have a bad feeling this helps the Stealthers more than anyone else.

Sun 11 Nov 2018 1:47 PM by Sepplord

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Sun 11 Nov 2018 1:37 PM
I have a bad feeling this helps the Stealthers more than anyone else.

Not all of them...scouts are pretty much useless now

the assassins really benefitted a lot though, that's true

Sun 11 Nov 2018 7:33 PM by Aincrad

I think 15 minutes is good as well. I would be down with that change as well.

Purge 1 - 10 points (15 min CD)

5 mins is just too low imo

Mon 12 Nov 2018 8:47 AM by inoeth

who is really going to spend the points für 5 min purge? i think only grp players will do it. here is why

solo players spend most time for running back to action so you dont really need a 5 min purge. plus you need the points for other ras too.

grp players actually can use a 5 min purge several times in a long fight. also hybrids have to decide if they go det9 or 5 min purge... imo 5 min purge is better than det.

what i want to say is leave purge as it is, it was a good decision to reduce the impact of stuns in the game. and for all the "scout is crap now" whiners: adapt and get mob, also the "2x critshot after slam meta" was much too powerfull.

Mon 12 Nov 2018 9:19 AM by Druth

I know it's hard to adapt, but maybe just maybe... possibly stop mashing slam every fight and use other stuns as well?
That means lower immunity after purge, and with some MoB you can survive long enough for slam and finish fight.

Especially for scout this is rough, because it means they go from using 4 skills to 6, and 40% extra micromanagement is rough stuff for anyone.

Mon 12 Nov 2018 9:38 AM by Glimmer

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 8:47 AM
what i want to say is leave purge as it is, it was a good decision to reduce the impact of stuns in the game. and for all the "scout is crap now" whiners: adapt and get mob, also the "2x critshot after slam meta" was much too powerfull.

Aye easy to say, but want to see video how thats gonna be working where somebody is doing well as solo scout with these all changes. It's all good if nerf OP class to the ground but then nobody will play it as solo cus it's weak and not anymore enjoyable. You can call them noobs or suckers, but thats how it will work.

Imo 15min timer for purge would be good option.

Mon 12 Nov 2018 10:42 AM by inoeth

as a stealther player for years i have seen alot of ppl playing melee scouts and i can say that it is really powerfull!
but yeah its not easy mode anymore you acutally have to use snare styls/engage and so on. poor scouts can not 2shot ppl anymore ;(((

Mon 12 Nov 2018 10:54 AM by Druth

It's a problem if a class is that highly dependant on one skill landing and not being purged.
But imo the problem lies in how strong slam is, and thus it's become a "crutch" for people.
And currently trying out VW, where my best stun is a backside stun that is hard to land and is 8 secs, and yet others gets an anytime stun for 9 secs.

If I wanted to do solo scout, I'd go slash for the snare, or 32 bow/44 thrust for that snare.
From what I heard the damage diff. from high bow and low is not that high, so might be worth going high melee for the snares.

Mon 12 Nov 2018 2:20 PM by Sepplord

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 8:47 AM
and for all the "scout is crap now" whiners: adapt and get mob, also the "2x critshot after slam meta" was much too powerfull.

double critshot wasn't possible long before NNF RAs, and MOB won't help a lot VS dualWielder Assassins (though i haven't tested scout much, the pop numbers aren't lying)

inoeth wrote: as a stealther player for years i have seen alot of ppl playing melee scouts and i can say that it is really powerfull!
but yeah its not easy mode anymore you acutally have to use snare styls/engage and so on. poor scouts can not 2shot ppl anymore ;(((

engage doesn't work in combat....but nice try pulling scout-tips out of your arse

For all i care they can leave scouts in the shithole they are, i am not planning to play one. But they are far from being a decent classchoice currently, and imho denying that only happens out of ignorance or spite

Mon 12 Nov 2018 3:06 PM by Thinal

Glimmer wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 9:38 AM
Aye easy to say, but want to see video how thats gonna be working where somebody is doing well as solo scout with these all changes. It's all good if nerf OP class to the ground but then nobody will play it as solo cus it's weak and not anymore enjoyable. You can call them noobs or suckers, but thats how it will work.

Imo 15min timer for purge would be good option.

Scouts were too powerful before. I agree that I don't want them to be too weak right now, but the distinction can't fairly be the purge timer. Dying because you lost an all-out no-holds-barred battle is frustrating, but dying because you couldn't take any fucking action at all while getting whaled on (stun) or while standing around with one's thumb up one's ass for 60 seconds watching battle until they focus fire on you and kill you instantly (mezz) are NOT FUN. It can't be an extremely weak class running around with a fuck-you cannon and winning by slowly blowing soft kisses and hugs on a target who's frozen in place and screaming in rage.

Any adjustments up for scouts should be to make them better in actual combat, not dickishness.

Oh, and poor hunters have been getting nerfed left and right; don't ignore them just because they weren't an extremely popular class that suddenly got nerfed. They are a once-nice-but-dwindling-due-to-a-steady-stream-of-small-nerfs class that is often not represented at all now on /serverinfo.

I prefer rangers, and aside from a lack of CC (except sidestuns which I'm WAY too old to do in actual combat) and high susceptibility to CC are just fine. Take CC out of the equation and my ranger is exactly where he should be. So yes, I'm asking to please buff the actual combat capability of my counterpart competition.

Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:36 AM by inoeth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 2:20 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 8:47 AM
and for all the "scout is crap now" whiners: adapt and get mob, also the "2x critshot after slam meta" was much too powerfull.

double critshot wasn't possible long before NNF RAs, and MOB won't help a lot VS dualWielder Assassins (though i haven't tested scout much, the pop numbers aren't lying)

inoeth wrote: as a stealther player for years i have seen alot of ppl playing melee scouts and i can say that it is really powerfull!
but yeah its not easy mode anymore you acutally have to use snare styls/engage and so on. poor scouts can not 2shot ppl anymore ;(((

engage doesn't work in combat....but nice try pulling scout-tips out of your arse

For all i care they can leave scouts in the shithole they are, i am not planning to play one. But they are far from being a decent classchoice currently, and imho denying that only happens out of ignorance or spite

i played melee scout yesterday, went out pretty ok ... 190 dmg on SBs 45% blockchance. thats far away from unplayable
my spec was 45 shield 44 thrust 27 bow 35 stealth
purge 3 ip3 lw1 tire1 rest mob
critshot did about 600
also with 44 thrust you have a 27sec! snare anytime chain which also does rly good dmg (the follow up)

i also have to say that archers are stronger here than on live back in the days because it is possible to fire a critshot on a moving target... that was not possible

plz stop crying about scouts being weak!

Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:21 PM by Thinal

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:36 AM
i also have to say that archers are stronger here than on live back in the days because it is possible to fire a critshot on a moving target... that was not possible

There's always been a movement speed at which one can crit only below it, but it's never been the case that crits require the target be absolutely still. That would be insane. Low level PvE is already interesting enough with low critshot skill, low quickness, low buffs, and critters slowly wandering out of range before the shot is fired.

Uthgard is 1.65 to the point of mental illness, and yes you can critshot a moving target there if it's moving slowly enough.

Tue 13 Nov 2018 9:18 PM by poisonclover

Ive been posting how bad scouts where before i50.. nobody seemed to care lol.. now all of the sudden, 5 minute purge and everyone notices?

there was 4 of us scouts who actually ran SOLO, and every solo fight people had purge, As it takes time to run all the back refreshing the timer. So nothing has changed for a scout. Purge will always dominate them, always has.

scout melee is laughable.
free rr6 of course people are running low CD purge.. so lets nerf purge because they are given 50 free realm skill points to people lol..

I love how people want things nerfed based off everyone having CAPPED everything, and free rr5L9

stealthers that have purge will have purge no matter what the CD is. So for someone to say stealthers are benefiting the most is absurd.

I benefit, when I pa that scout and he slams and runs while his 2 inf buddies and his minstrel buddy beat on me.. at least I kill the scout before I die now.

people who spend the points for 5 minute purge let them be, because I can tell you flat out. It will not guarantee you a kill. I let the scout slam and crit me on my sb, hes still going to die when it wears off, while I have 30% life left.

Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:13 PM by Thinal

It seems like the best solution for all archer woes is, strangely enough, to let archery be more freaking useful. Just more base damage, penetrating arrow III at 50 base archery (which most scouts and hunters would find the points for, but almost no rangers will get), allow penetrating arrow to penetrate self-cast bubbles (especially with PD in the game now), and the classes are suddenly playable. Due to interrupt mechanics, still not gods, and not any better in melee than they are now.

Some See Hidden would be nice too so they could actually shoot stealthers at range, but we can wait to see how prevalent the stealth detection potions will be once the game is released.

Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:38 PM by inoeth

Thinal wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:21 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 13 Nov 2018 7:36 AM
i also have to say that archers are stronger here than on live back in the days because it is possible to fire a critshot on a moving target... that was not possible

There's always been a movement speed at which one can crit only below it, but it's never been the case that crits require the target be absolutely still. That would be insane. Low level PvE is already interesting enough with low critshot skill, low quickness, low buffs, and critters slowly wandering out of range before the shot is fired.

Uthgard is 1.65 to the point of mental illness, and yes you can critshot a moving target there if it's moving slowly enough.

this is true but those speed are "walk" and "stealth" both is likely never happening since archers cannot detect others stealthers at a range where they can actually try a crit shot and nobody walks in rvr ;D

Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:40 PM by poisonclover

just sit in high traffic area and keep crit knocked it will release when they hit you lmao...

Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:41 PM by inoeth

Thinal wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:13 PM
It seems like the best solution for all archer woes is, strangely enough, to let archery be more freaking useful. Just more base damage, penetrating arrow III at 50 base archery (which most scouts and hunters would find the points for, but almost no rangers will get), allow penetrating arrow to penetrate self-cast bubbles (especially with PD in the game now), and the classes are suddenly playable. Due to interrupt mechanics, still not gods, and not any better in melee than they are now.

Some See Hidden would be nice too so they could actually shoot stealthers at range, but we can wait to see how prevalent the stealth detection potions will be once the game is released.

ppl who skill more than 35 bow are retardet imo.... and espeacialy hunters do not skill 50 bow lol

Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:47 PM by inoeth

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:40 PM
just sit in high traffic area and keep crit knocked it will release when they hit you lmao...

that works but i dont know anybody doing it on a regular basis...

Wed 14 Nov 2018 3:13 PM by Naturedruid

Aincrad wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Nov 2018 11:58 PM
I had a suggestion regarding Purge as I think 5 mins is too low of a CD. My idea is only have 3 levels of purge and each level is immediate upon use. Total of 15 points.

Level 1 - 5 points (20 min cooldown)
Level 2 - 5 points (15 min cooldown)
Level 3 - 5 points (10 min cooldown)

I think this will still keep things balanced around all play styles. Wondering what everyone's thoughts on it was or if there was a different idea on it.

Does everyone like the 5 min purge CD for 30 points?

Really good change!

Wed 14 Nov 2018 3:17 PM by Thinal

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:41 PM
ppl who skill more than 35 bow are retardet imo.... and espeacialy hunters do not skill 50 bow lol

There is no reason to spec 50 bow NOW. The point was, if there were incentive to do so, that scouts and hunters would have an easier time finding the points than rangers would.

I've played with many bow specs across Hibernian Rangers and Midgard Hunters, from 12-45 base. I don't think I've tried a Ranger with above 35 spec, and far more often 12-27 spec. I've not tried 50 spec ever, but that's because there's no reason to do so, and the Hunters that were over 35 were largely due to there being few other places to put those points.

Give me a reason to spec 50 bow, and I could do it on a Hunter, no problem. It would take a minor sacrifice of marginally less stealth (30 base) or give up the 39 stun styles from spear or sword, but easily doable. If I had the setup to take a hot shower with bleach every 10 minutes so I could play Albion, I could do it on a Scout, too. It would be unworkable on a Ranger, at least the type I like to play with decent Pathfinding.

Wed 14 Nov 2018 4:36 PM by inoeth

Thinal wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Nov 2018 3:17 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Nov 2018 2:41 PM
ppl who skill more than 35 bow are retardet imo.... and espeacialy hunters do not skill 50 bow lol

There is no reason to spec 50 bow NOW. The point was, if there were incentive to do so, that scouts and hunters would have an easier time finding the points than rangers would.

I've played with many bow specs across Hibernian Rangers and Midgard Hunters, from 12-45 base. I don't think I've tried a Ranger with above 35 spec, and far more often 12-27 spec. I've not tried 50 spec ever, but that's because there's no reason to do so, and the Hunters that were over 35 were largely due to there being few other places to put those points.

Give me a reason to spec 50 bow, and I could do it on a Hunter, no problem. It would take a minor sacrifice of marginally less stealth (30 base) or give up the 39 stun styles from spear or sword, but easily doable. If I had the setup to take a hot shower with bleach every 10 minutes so I could play Albion, I could do it on a Scout, too. It would be unworkable on a Ranger, at least the type I like to play with decent Pathfinding.

for what you need pathfinding again? imo archers need a high weaponspec to compete since they are not able to shoot others stealthers effectivly. so i personally would not spec bow higher than 27 and put all the points into weapon/shield/pet/offhand.

talking about the new bow system on live i would also not spec 50 bow with hunter but with ranger and high cd skill (44)

ot: i still think there is no need for purge changes

Wed 14 Nov 2018 5:40 PM by Thinal

Well, there's a zillion ways to build a ranger. It's the least agreed upon class for the best build, at least in Hibernia, where even nightshades see more agreement on builds.

Where we seem to agree is that rangers in particular have very little incentive to put many points into bow.

Thu 15 Nov 2018 3:45 AM by Sepplord

afaik you can't pre-aim critshots...i mean you can, and they will shoot but only as a regular shot unless they were targetted at the target they are shot at (or is that changed on phoenix?)