my hunter was hitting minstrels MUCH harder than cloth wearers last night. I understand there is the RA physical defense, but hitting a caster for 110 means I won't be targeting casters any more. Not with quick cast, MOC, etc. Is PD supposed to give cloth wearers the equivalent of plate? Sorry, I'm just asking not complaining but will definitely need to alter my play style if this is the case.
Physical Defense
Started 7 Nov 2018
by
Dominus
in
Tavern
Wed 7 Nov 2018 4:12 PM
by
Magesty
PD is known to be OP and I’m pretty sure the devs are planning to at least look at it, but I’m guessing we will see either a complete removal or a significant reduction in delve value.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:00 PM
by
relvinian
It is a beta so things are flexible.
That being said I think it would be better to discuss things with players and get their input.
Players have already donated their time and effort into this beta. Where is their voice?
Don't remember any polls or discussions about changing this server
That being said I think it would be better to discuss things with players and get their input.
Players have already donated their time and effort into this beta. Where is their voice?
Don't remember any polls or discussions about changing this server
Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:07 PM
by
Chimaera
The forums are a great place for your voice. Although most often there won't be a staff reply, we read these forums just like you.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:13 PM
by
relvinian
Yes but there was no discussion.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:58 PM
by
poisonclover
What discussion is needed? changes are immanent and I'm glad they just do it and not delay it to hear everyones voices before hand. Its much better to get raw data and replies to it being changed vs people saying.. no... yes...no....yes...
just my two cents.
I finally killed a merc on my SB and a valewalker without PA, 1 on 1.. barely mind you, and I didn't purge the slam. the defensive abilities parry,evade etc etc where just flat out, out of hand and unrealistic on so many levels..
Logging into new systems and new things is the idea here, to find the best and most optimal for the server, not individuals.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 6:04 PM
by
poisonclover
Dominus wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 2:12 PMmy hunter was hitting minstrels MUCH harder than cloth wearers last night. I understand there is the RA physical defense, but hitting a caster for 110 means I won't be targeting casters any more. Not with quick cast, MOC, etc. Is PD supposed to give cloth wearers the equivalent of plate? Sorry, I'm just asking not complaining but will definitely need to alter my play style if this is the case.
PD is needed IMO. on what level is arguable. But it is way more challenging being able to hit casters more then 3-4 times to kill them,
PA'd caster, CD' caster ( hes at about 40% life ) … he purged my stun... quickcasted root, ran off to get distance, I just chucked throwing axes at him to interrupt... untill his quick cast came back and he nuked, but an axe got off and interrupted his next cast after quickcast.. so I rushed him popped heal pot and finished him.
vs
pa'ed, CD.. caster qc root, the one hit I got on him before he got out of range killed him..
So what I'm saying is, its nice that more tactics are required and there life was extended a bit when it comes to melee damage, because dying in 2 hits you cant defend by any means is never fun for anyone.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 6:36 PM
by
Magesty
No idea where you are coming from with this. I have participated in a number of threads discussing the idea of changing to NF RAs, the hybrid changes, and a number of other things like XP/XP item changes. If you look at the bottom of your screen you can often see GS and other devs viewing the thread if it is getting a lot of posts.
If you participate in constructive posts it will quickly become apparent that the devs are reading what is being put out here.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 6:56 PM
by
relvinian
My experience of the change so far is I do not like what I see.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 7:10 PM
by
Chimaera
relvinian wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 6:56 PMMy experience of the change so far is I do not like what I see.
I don't know what anybody can do with that statement, relvinian. You're given a platform to discuss, and instead you merely poo-poo the change. Discussion can't be had if one isn't willing.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 7:11 PM
by
defiasbandit
Poisoncloverz is right. PD is only thing that keeps assassin damage remotely in line here.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 8:48 PM
by
relvinian
Nothing I posted was wrong or deserves criticism. I merely stated my opinion.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:10 PM
by
ghettoblaster
Pd is broken right now.... 2 savages 1 warrior and a skald on a cabby and cant drop him with b2b triple and quad hits. Caster the new meta?
Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:52 PM
by
defiasbandit
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:10 PMPd is broken right now.... 2 savages 1 warrior and a skald on a cabby and cant drop him with b2b triple and quad hits. Caster the new meta?
Sure.
Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:54 PM
by
chryso
One guy says 4 melee cant bring down a cabby and another says that they (casters) can finally live just long enough to fight a stealther.
Somebody is exaggerating.
Somebody is exaggerating.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 12:02 AM
by
Sepplord
Physical Defense reduces physical damage by 30% for a boatload of 34RAPs, it doesn't really sound OP unless there is something broken and it is mitigating more than those 30% (but as you might have taken from my wording, i don't have practical experience training on a caster with it on phoenix yet)
Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:12 AM
by
ghettoblaster
Believe me or don't I could care less. I'm stating facts... You get 4 assisting casters nothing can heal thru it. You get 4 assisting melee with disease and the target wouldn't drop. Go ahead try it for yourself
Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:14 AM
by
ghettoblaster
chryso wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 11:54 PMOne guy says 4 melee cant bring down a cabby and another says that they (casters) can finally live just long enough to fight a stealther.
Somebody is exaggerating.
A caster was never meant to kill a stealther tbh
Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:37 AM
by
Haruspex
poisonclover wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:58 PM
What discussion is needed? changes are immanent and I'm glad they just do it and not delay it to hear everyones voices before hand. Its much better to get raw data and replies to it being changed vs people saying.. no... yes...no....yes...
just my two cents.
I finally killed a merc on my SB and a valewalker without PA, 1 on 1.. barely mind you, and I didn't purge the slam. the defensive abilities parry,evade etc etc where just flat out, out of hand and unrealistic on so many levels..
Logging into new systems and new things is the idea here, to find the best and most optimal for the server, not individuals.
No, they are not unrealistic and out of hand. You are an ASSASSIN. You should not be able to engage a Light Tank WITHOUT PA and win easily. You said you didn't even Purge the Slam. Honestly, you should have died.
This is just another example of a fan of Assassins wanting everything given to them on a plate. You need to accept that sometimes you will lose and that if you engage a class like that without purge, without using an opener that your class is BUILT AROUND, you may very well end up taking a dirt nap.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:14 AM
by
Cadebrennus
I think what people are forgetting is the initial "rock paper scissors" initial design in the game.
Casters kill tanks
Tanks kill stealthers
Stealthers kill casters
This is the original balance the game was designed around. PD upsets that balance significantly. I remember on live on of the Casters I would see running around maxed out PD and would hunt for Stealthers hoping (yes hoping) to get PA'ed. He rarely lost.
Casters kill tanks
Tanks kill stealthers
Stealthers kill casters
This is the original balance the game was designed around. PD upsets that balance significantly. I remember on live on of the Casters I would see running around maxed out PD and would hunt for Stealthers hoping (yes hoping) to get PA'ed. He rarely lost.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:17 AM
by
ghettoblaster
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:14 AMI think what people are forgetting is the initial "rock paper scissors" initial design in the game.
Casters kill tanks
Tanks kill stealthers
Stealthers kill casters
This is the original balance the game was designed around. PD upsets that balance significantly. I remember on live on of the Casters I would see running around maxed out PD and would hunt for Stealthers hoping (yes hoping) to get PA'ed. He rarely lost.
Tanks kill stealthers? A tank group vs a caster group one can absorb dps as a meat shield. A caster is a glass cannon. If you can close the gap they should not be able to withstand punishment. That is why they extend. PD needs some very serious rework
Thu 8 Nov 2018 7:12 AM
by
Cadebrennus
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:17 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:14 AMI think what people are forgetting is the initial "rock paper scissors" initial design in the game.
Casters kill tanks
Tanks kill stealthers
Stealthers kill casters
This is the original balance the game was designed around. PD upsets that balance significantly. I remember on live on of the Casters I would see running around maxed out PD and would hunt for Stealthers hoping (yes hoping) to get PA'ed. He rarely lost.
Tanks kill stealthers? A tank group vs a caster group one can absorb dps as a meat shield. A caster is a glass cannon. If you can close the gap they should not be able to withstand punishment. That is why they extend. PD needs some very serious rework
Pre-SI stealthers would go after sitting casters often and tanks would chase them and kill them. Then things got weird when casters got PD
Thu 8 Nov 2018 8:32 AM
by
Koljar
Talking about meath shields: I'd love to see heretics with maxed out pd and aom. Add to that dmg neutral absorb, very high AF and quite some HP.
I'd be playing my tic again any day
I'd be playing my tic again any day
Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:11 PM
by
Gwendolein
I can just repost what i already said regarding the topic - the nnf ra´s without charge are killing tank setups.
sorry but this is changing the balance of the setups completly...
The new RA system without charge is a huge setback for all tank groups and espically alb tank groups.
- increase cost for purge 4 points to 10 / 15 points
- no charge
- BOF for everyone
- PD on all caster
- Endu changes as per last patch (which force alb to play pally)
- Battery for everyone
- TWF on standard hib and mid classes (Warden and BD)
- Moc 1 for shamy (yeah, free rupt)
- Ichor for everyone....
This will force another dark age of cast alot.. therfore if you want to run as ALB Tank you definitly require a theurg for rupt and BOAD.
Cleric
Cleric (Fiar would be great but imo to weak as healer -> no heat and cold resists)
Pally (yeah another 0 damage slot)
Ministrel
Sorc
Theurg
Merc
Arms
For sure Alb will still be as strong as ever with caster setup, even without the old SOS. But we will see alot more bodytrain groups...
sorry but this is changing the balance of the setups completly...
The new RA system without charge is a huge setback for all tank groups and espically alb tank groups.
- increase cost for purge 4 points to 10 / 15 points
- no charge
- BOF for everyone
- PD on all caster
- Endu changes as per last patch (which force alb to play pally)
- Battery for everyone
- TWF on standard hib and mid classes (Warden and BD)
- Moc 1 for shamy (yeah, free rupt)
- Ichor for everyone....
This will force another dark age of cast alot.. therfore if you want to run as ALB Tank you definitly require a theurg for rupt and BOAD.
Cleric
Cleric (Fiar would be great but imo to weak as healer -> no heat and cold resists)
Pally (yeah another 0 damage slot)
Ministrel
Sorc
Theurg
Merc
Arms
For sure Alb will still be as strong as ever with caster setup, even without the old SOS. But we will see alot more bodytrain groups...
Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PM
by
poisonclover
Haruspex wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:37 AMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:58 PM
What discussion is needed? changes are immanent and I'm glad they just do it and not delay it to hear everyones voices before hand. Its much better to get raw data and replies to it being changed vs people saying.. no... yes...no....yes...
just my two cents.
I finally killed a merc on my SB and a valewalker without PA, 1 on 1.. barely mind you, and I didn't purge the slam. the defensive abilities parry,evade etc etc where just flat out, out of hand and unrealistic on so many levels..
Logging into new systems and new things is the idea here, to find the best and most optimal for the server, not individuals.
No, they are not unrealistic and out of hand. You are an ASSASSIN. You should not be able to engage a Light Tank WITHOUT PA and win easily. You said you didn't even Purge the Slam. Honestly, you should have died.
This is just another example of a fan of Assassins wanting everything given to them on a plate. You need to accept that sometimes you will lose and that if you engage a class like that without purge, without using an opener that your class is BUILT AROUND, you may very well end up taking a dirt nap.
who said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:32 PM
by
kmark101
I'm sure PD will be reworked/tweaked/(maybe fixed?) because it's performing way way better than it supposed to. Casters just don't die with it, while sacrificing nothing. It should be nerfed to at least maximum 10% (if not bugged by some multiplication somewhere) or removed completely, it just fucks up the overall basic balance of the game.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 5:25 PM
by
Uthred
Uthred
2018-11-8 Thursday
dots can now actually crit again (with wp)
archer: arrows / endurance is now deducted when the arrow is released not when it arrives
statics / storms (twf, st, dt, nm) persist and keep working after caster death
added decimation trap
added juggernaut (pet damage in general needs some more work though)
reduced ameliorating melodies delve by 25%
reduced vehement renewal delve by 25%
reduced divine intervention delve by 25%
reduced determination cost from 34 (nnf passive) to 22 (of det cost)
reduced pd from 30% at the end to 20% (same values / scaling as aom now)
dots can now actually crit again (with wp)
archer: arrows / endurance is now deducted when the arrow is released not when it arrives
statics / storms (twf, st, dt, nm) persist and keep working after caster death
added decimation trap
added juggernaut (pet damage in general needs some more work though)
reduced ameliorating melodies delve by 25%
reduced vehement renewal delve by 25%
reduced divine intervention delve by 25%
reduced determination cost from 34 (nnf passive) to 22 (of det cost)
reduced pd from 30% at the end to 20% (same values / scaling as aom now)
Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:11 PM
by
Cider
poisonclover wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:37 AMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:58 PMWhat discussion is needed? changes are immanent and I'm glad they just do it and not delay it to hear everyones voices before hand. Its much better to get raw data and replies to it being changed vs people saying.. no... yes...no....yes...
just my two cents.
I finally killed a merc on my SB and a valewalker without PA, 1 on 1.. barely mind you, and I didn't purge the slam. the defensive abilities parry,evade etc etc where just flat out, out of hand and unrealistic on so many levels..
Logging into new systems and new things is the idea here, to find the best and most optimal for the server, not individuals.
No, they are not unrealistic and out of hand. You are an ASSASSIN. You should not be able to engage a Light Tank WITHOUT PA and win easily. You said you didn't even Purge the Slam. Honestly, you should have died.
This is just another example of a fan of Assassins wanting everything given to them on a plate. You need to accept that sometimes you will lose and that if you engage a class like that without purge, without using an opener that your class is BUILT AROUND, you may very well end up taking a dirt nap.
who said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
You shouldnt have a chance really, not simply by opening with a PA chain then proceeding to go toe to toe anyway. A light tank, or even main tank, should destroy you in any toe to toe scenario, thats according to game design, thats unless you play smart and use kiting mechanics to your advantage (of which you have all the tool you need to do). Simply reapplying your poisons on every hit on as many weps as you can carry is the thing that seems to tip this balance (in a game design breaking way), and IMO should be removed. With 3 weps at your disposal to poison, that should be plenty and takes some planning on which poisons you need for specific targets. ATM there is little skill nor planning involved, you can apply them all if given the chance, and that gives way too much of an advantage against any opponent, which your post has highlighted. Why do you think you should deserve a chance against a damage dealing (visible) tank in a toe to toe scenario?
Your 50/50 targets should be other assassins and some hybrids, NOT tanks.
as for PD, I still think 20% may be too much.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:36 PM
by
Waygone
When live happens, how many are going to be able to have inventory LOADED with weapons? ESPECIALLY raid weapons. What your saying is TOTALLY ridiculous and based on free everything. The "stuff" people have now will be unavailable on live and current combat conditions CANNOT gauge properly what it will be like on live.Cider wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:11 PMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:37 AMNo, they are not unrealistic and out of hand. You are an ASSASSIN. You should not be able to engage a Light Tank WITHOUT PA and win easily. You said you didn't even Purge the Slam. Honestly, you should have died.
This is just another example of a fan of Assassins wanting everything given to them on a plate. You need to accept that sometimes you will lose and that if you engage a class like that without purge, without using an opener that your class is BUILT AROUND, you may very well end up taking a dirt nap.
who said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
You shouldnt have a chance really, not simply by opening with a PA chain then proceeding to go toe to toe anyway. A light tank, or even main tank, should destroy you in any toe to toe scenario, thats according to game design, thats unless you play smart and use kiting mechanics to your advantage (of which you have all the tool you need to do). Simply reapplying your poisons on every hit on as many weps as you can carry is the thing that seems to tip this balance (in a game design breaking way), and IMO should be removed. With 3 weps at your disposal to poison, that should be plenty and takes some planning on which poisons you need for specific targets. ATM there is little skill nor planning involved, you can apply them all if given the chance, and that gives way too much of an advantage against any opponent, which your post has highlighted. Why do you think you should deserve a chance against a damage dealing (visible) tank in a toe to toe scenario?
Your 50/50 targets should be other assassins and some hybrids, NOT tanks.
as for PD, I still think 20% may be too much.
I think assassins will be significantly weaker and archers even more so than they are currently.
I have complete faith that things will be adjusted accordingly for live values. Testing as it is now, though valuable, is somewhat flawed.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:33 AM
by
Haruspex
I never claimed you said it was an easy fight. You said it was a very difficult and hard fight that you barely survived. This is NORMAL for the situation you described.poisonclover wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:37 AMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Wed 7 Nov 2018 5:58 PMWhat discussion is needed? changes are immanent and I'm glad they just do it and not delay it to hear everyones voices before hand. Its much better to get raw data and replies to it being changed vs people saying.. no... yes...no....yes...
just my two cents.
I finally killed a merc on my SB and a valewalker without PA, 1 on 1.. barely mind you, and I didn't purge the slam. the defensive abilities parry,evade etc etc where just flat out, out of hand and unrealistic on so many levels..
Logging into new systems and new things is the idea here, to find the best and most optimal for the server, not individuals.
No, they are not unrealistic and out of hand. You are an ASSASSIN. You should not be able to engage a Light Tank WITHOUT PA and win easily. You said you didn't even Purge the Slam. Honestly, you should have died.
This is just another example of a fan of Assassins wanting everything given to them on a plate. You need to accept that sometimes you will lose and that if you engage a class like that without purge, without using an opener that your class is BUILT AROUND, you may very well end up taking a dirt nap.
who said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
What you just described is exactly what SHOULD be happening. Light tanks are not an assassins typical prey. You are fishing in deep waters for huge sharks with a tiny little fishing rod. You should be fight other stealthers, archers and casters primarily. That's what you're designed to do.
By not having landed PA and not purging the Slam, you got exactly what was supposed to happen, an extremely close fight. THis is NORMAL.
Regarding Dirty tricks, it is a unique ability on a cooldown that is MEANT to win fights. That's its very purpose. DAOC has many such abilities that are designed to sway a fight in a particular direction and if we dilute them we lose something very precious about the game. This is also NORMAL.
You are not warranted in your desire for it to have been easier, because you used none of the tools that you have that would have made it easier.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:49 AM
by
relvinian
Every time I log in I feel disappointed.
Not sure how much is emain and how much is the new RA and or dmg being so high in general.
I screwed around on a ranger earlier. I ran to emain. I scouted around a bit then added a fight between albs and mids.
I shot some healer a couple times and did low dmg and then literally exploded from some range caster which I never even saw.
Still have no idea where that caster was. I do know I exploded in like 3 seconds.
Not sure how much is emain and how much is the new RA and or dmg being so high in general.
I screwed around on a ranger earlier. I ran to emain. I scouted around a bit then added a fight between albs and mids.
I shot some healer a couple times and did low dmg and then literally exploded from some range caster which I never even saw.
Still have no idea where that caster was. I do know I exploded in like 3 seconds.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:59 AM
by
Falken
34 point investment for purely survivability, which just got nerfed by 33% seems a bit rough. Especially considering tanks just got a free 12 point reduction. BMs shouldn't be solo 3 shotting my fully buffed BD anyhow.
Purge 3 + PD 9 = 49 points just to survive and not die in a slam on every fight. 5L9 is whats required to get that many points, doesn't even include being able to continue actually casting or endurance regen so throw another ~12 points in there for the bare minimums there.
Det 9 + Stoicism seems pretty OP as well, lets look into those stacking and make CC matter on tanks.
Purge 3 + PD 9 = 49 points just to survive and not die in a slam on every fight. 5L9 is whats required to get that many points, doesn't even include being able to continue actually casting or endurance regen so throw another ~12 points in there for the bare minimums there.
Det 9 + Stoicism seems pretty OP as well, lets look into those stacking and make CC matter on tanks.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 1:03 AM
by
Cider
Waygone wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:36 PMWhen live happens, how many are going to be able to have inventory LOADED with weapons? ESPECIALLY raid weapons. What your saying is TOTALLY ridiculous and based on free everything. The "stuff" people have now will be unavailable on live and current combat conditions CANNOT gauge properly what it will be like on live.Cider wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:11 PMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PMwho said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
You shouldnt have a chance really, not simply by opening with a PA chain then proceeding to go toe to toe anyway. A light tank, or even main tank, should destroy you in any toe to toe scenario, thats according to game design, thats unless you play smart and use kiting mechanics to your advantage (of which you have all the tool you need to do). Simply reapplying your poisons on every hit on as many weps as you can carry is the thing that seems to tip this balance (in a game design breaking way), and IMO should be removed. With 3 weps at your disposal to poison, that should be plenty and takes some planning on which poisons you need for specific targets. ATM there is little skill nor planning involved, you can apply them all if given the chance, and that gives way too much of an advantage against any opponent, which your post has highlighted. Why do you think you should deserve a chance against a damage dealing (visible) tank in a toe to toe scenario?
Your 50/50 targets should be other assassins and some hybrids, NOT tanks.
as for PD, I still think 20% may be too much.
I think assassins will be significantly weaker and archers even more so than they are currently.
I have complete faith that things will be adjusted accordingly for live values. Testing as it is now, though valuable, is somewhat flawed.
What are you talking about? I never mentioned raid weps! Anyhow yes MANY assassins will, do, and have always ran with many pre-poisoned weps in their backpack, even before all the free stuff because it gives such a large advantage that made easy through the switch command, them being raid weps or not has little impact compared to the advantage this already gives.
The abilities I spoke about (poisons being applied from weps from backpack switch, only limited to how many they can carry) are baseline, as in they dont need anything special to make use of it (other than spec envenom and have more weps). So that being said, if anything, after all this free stuff has gone, its more likely the assassins keep, or even further their advantage due to less opponents running the high cost charges/pots, while assassins can still do the multi weapon poisoning (Even just re-applying dot every swing = a +50 or more each hit, which is quite a huge amount, and YES many have always done this way before the free stuff). I cant blame them for using it, I have myself, but still IMO, this is too much and I think the case in point here highlights that (an assassin that won going toe to toe with a light tank that slammed).
Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:51 AM
by
Koljar
Which does not help them at all if they get slamed. Neither of the above helps against melee stuns so have your own tanks slam them.Falken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:59 AMDet 9 + Stoicism seems pretty OP as well, lets look into those stacking and make CC matter on tanks.
Countering that then requires many points in purge (as you'd want it to be up rather regularly...).
Fri 9 Nov 2018 2:53 PM
by
poisonclover
Cider wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:11 PMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PMHaruspex wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 2:37 AMNo, they are not unrealistic and out of hand. You are an ASSASSIN. You should not be able to engage a Light Tank WITHOUT PA and win easily. You said you didn't even Purge the Slam. Honestly, you should have died.
This is just another example of a fan of Assassins wanting everything given to them on a plate. You need to accept that sometimes you will lose and that if you engage a class like that without purge, without using an opener that your class is BUILT AROUND, you may very well end up taking a dirt nap.
who said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
You shouldnt have a chance really, not simply by opening with a PA chain then proceeding to go toe to toe anyway. A light tank, or even main tank, should destroy you in any toe to toe scenario, thats according to game design, thats unless you play smart and use kiting mechanics to your advantage (of which you have all the tool you need to do). Simply reapplying your poisons on every hit on as many weps as you can carry is the thing that seems to tip this balance (in a game design breaking way), and IMO should be removed. With 3 weps at your disposal to poison, that should be plenty and takes some planning on which poisons you need for specific targets. ATM there is little skill nor planning involved, you can apply them all if given the chance, and that gives way too much of an advantage against any opponent, which your post has highlighted. Why do you think you should deserve a chance against a damage dealing (visible) tank in a toe to toe scenario?
Your 50/50 targets should be other assassins and some hybrids, NOT tanks.
as for PD, I still think 20% may be too much.
A merc isn't a tank sorry.
that fight was just left alone, couldn't count how many people ran by just nobody added it was a long fight. this wasn't a 2 minutes boom I just killed a merc. by no means, and like I said. he didn't use DT which tips the scale of any 1 on 1 with a merc in this game.
I'm all for limiting envenomed weapons on assassins, doesn't matter to me because I barely use them anyhow and when I do they aren't of lifebane quality. But make them immune to purge, because 5 minute purge completely negates the whole spec line. See hidden potions completely negates a whole spec line.
so keep the nerf train coming, fact is... at the end of the day. Skill will win every time no matter how much you nerf a class and its playability. People will still suck and people will still cry what an assassin should or shouldn't be doing which is ASSASINIATING people..
And just so we are clear, 95% of the people who say assassins are overpowered couldn't kill anyone on one. Which I find hilarious. I love watching the i50s run around thinking they can just hit a few buttons and win.. when its so far from the truth its hilarious lmao.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 3:05 PM
by
poisonclover
Cider wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 1:03 AMWaygone wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:36 PMWhen live happens, how many are going to be able to have inventory LOADED with weapons? ESPECIALLY raid weapons. What your saying is TOTALLY ridiculous and based on free everything. The "stuff" people have now will be unavailable on live and current combat conditions CANNOT gauge properly what it will be like on live.Cider wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:11 PMYou shouldnt have a chance really, not simply by opening with a PA chain then proceeding to go toe to toe anyway. A light tank, or even main tank, should destroy you in any toe to toe scenario, thats according to game design, thats unless you play smart and use kiting mechanics to your advantage (of which you have all the tool you need to do). Simply reapplying your poisons on every hit on as many weps as you can carry is the thing that seems to tip this balance (in a game design breaking way), and IMO should be removed. With 3 weps at your disposal to poison, that should be plenty and takes some planning on which poisons you need for specific targets. ATM there is little skill nor planning involved, you can apply them all if given the chance, and that gives way too much of an advantage against any opponent, which your post has highlighted. Why do you think you should deserve a chance against a damage dealing (visible) tank in a toe to toe scenario?
Your 50/50 targets should be other assassins and some hybrids, NOT tanks.
as for PD, I still think 20% may be too much.
I think assassins will be significantly weaker and archers even more so than they are currently.
I have complete faith that things will be adjusted accordingly for live values. Testing as it is now, though valuable, is somewhat flawed.
What are you talking about? I never mentioned raid weps! Anyhow yes MANY assassins will, do, and have always ran with many pre-poisoned weps in their backpack, even before all the free stuff because it gives such a large advantage that made easy through the switch command, them being raid weps or not has little impact compared to the advantage this already gives.
The abilities I spoke about (poisons being applied from weps from backpack switch, only limited to how many they can carry) are baseline, as in they dont need anything special to make use of it (other than spec envenom and have more weps). So that being said, if anything, after all this free stuff has gone, its more likely the assassins keep, or even further their advantage due to less opponents running the high cost charges/pots, while assassins can still do the multi weapon poisoning (Even just re-applying dot every swing = a +50 or more each hit, which is quite a huge amount, and YES many have always done this way before the free stuff). I cant blame them for using it, I have myself, but still IMO, this is too much and I think the case in point here highlights that (an assassin that won going toe to toe with a light tank that slammed).
A light tank who spent 42 points into shield to stun, a light tank who just like an assassin can /switch his shield out for a left handed weapon, a light tank who LACKED weapon skill due to him speccing shield.. who got evaded more then your non shield spec light tank.. there is a penalty for not maximizing your weapon skill, and this is case and point of it.
weapon skill debuff envenom against a character who already has lower then he should weapon skill is a perfect storm for an assassin.
what exactly aren't you understanding? maybe it was luck maybe it wasn't regardless... I won that fight landing reactionary chains and positionals not spamming garrote/achiliies.. not spamming Double frost...
you want to nerf a tactic and tool used by a class since the creation of this game. Simply because someone got out played? They spec for it. envenom vs 5 min purge = envenom has to be re-applied. meanwhile you have casters debuffing their own damage type nuking for 600 every 2.0 seconds lol.. and this is what bothers you? lol
Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:05 PM
by
Sepplord
the fact that you keep stressing the point that 5min purge ruins poisons is so far from reality in itself...but now you even follow it up with a complaint about a resistdebuff....a debuff that can be purged just like your poison???
You are really, really biased and it shows in the majority of comments you make
You are really, really biased and it shows in the majority of comments you make
Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:32 PM
by
Falken
Koljar wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:51 AMWhich does not help them at all if they get slamed. Neither of the above helps against melee stuns so have your own tanks slam them.Falken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:59 AMDet 9 + Stoicism seems pretty OP as well, lets look into those stacking and make CC matter on tanks.
Countering that then requires many points in purge (as you'd want it to be up rather regularly...).
Right, and tanks can now get purge 3 and det 9 for nearly the same cost (37vs34) as casters would spend on PD, caster doesn't have purge yet... seems logical. CC is one of the strongest abilities in this game, it is what sets it apart from so many other games. Det is by far the most desirable and most utilized RA in the game, to just give it away to tanks at this point seems confusing. Unless we are just at the point of trying crazy things to see if we can incentivize people to play tanks more, this was not the case at the beginning of BETA though and I am sure the meta will shift back at launch. The testing grounds are muddied by the fact that it's free fully temped 5L9 50s. Casters have always been strong in the right hands especially at high RRs which is exactly what this i50 testing phase is, but lets not balance the game around 8 man no life players and look more towards the middle ground. If you want a true test put people @ 3L0 rather than 6L0 because the current achievable free RPs is going to be months of play for the average person on the server.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:47 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Falken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:32 PMKoljar wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:51 AMWhich does not help them at all if they get slamed. Neither of the above helps against melee stuns so have your own tanks slam them.Falken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:59 AMDet 9 + Stoicism seems pretty OP as well, lets look into those stacking and make CC matter on tanks.
Countering that then requires many points in purge (as you'd want it to be up rather regularly...).
Right, and tanks can now get purge 3 and det 9 for nearly the same cost (37vs34) as casters would spend on PD, caster doesn't have purge yet... seems logical. CC is one of the strongest abilities in this game, it is what sets it apart from so many other games. Det is by far the most desirable and most utilized RA in the game, to just give it away to tanks at this point seems confusing. Unless we are just at the point of trying crazy things to see if we can incentivize people to play tanks more, this was not the case at the beginning of BETA though and I am sure the meta will shift back at launch. The testing grounds are muddied by the fact that it's free fully temped 5L9 50s. Casters have always been strong in the right hands especially at high RRs which is exactly what this i50 testing phase is, but lets not balance the game around 8 man no life players and look more towards the middle ground. If you want a true test put people @ 3L0 rather than 6L0 because the current achievable free RPs is going to be months of play for the average person on the server.
CC duration is insane in DAOC and everyone knows it. That's why Det and Stoic were introduced so that tanks in particular didn't stand around CC'ed for a minute plus being useless in RvR
Fri 9 Nov 2018 9:37 PM
by
Cider
poisonclover wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 2:53 PMCider wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:11 PMpoisonclover wrote: ↑Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:19 PMwho said I won easily? he didn't use dirty tricks which would of killed me easily.. he spec'd 42 shield there fore costing him weaponskill points, in which my weapon skill debuff lowered even more, given me just enough edge to even have a chance, so many factors came into play, that to be honest if I fought him again it would be a 50/50 chance of success.
I won with one hit left on me, I landed the full critical strike evade chain for the first time on this server because it would always get blocked,parried,evaded 100% never ever made it to rib separation. I only won because I put 4 different envenom psns on him and kept the dot up.. swapping weapons so many times while landing reactionary chains.
so basically what Im saying is.. I went from NEVER EVER having a chance to kill a merc without dirty tricks solo, to it being possible now..
You shouldnt have a chance really, not simply by opening with a PA chain then proceeding to go toe to toe anyway. A light tank, or even main tank, should destroy you in any toe to toe scenario, thats according to game design, thats unless you play smart and use kiting mechanics to your advantage (of which you have all the tool you need to do). Simply reapplying your poisons on every hit on as many weps as you can carry is the thing that seems to tip this balance (in a game design breaking way), and IMO should be removed. With 3 weps at your disposal to poison, that should be plenty and takes some planning on which poisons you need for specific targets. ATM there is little skill nor planning involved, you can apply them all if given the chance, and that gives way too much of an advantage against any opponent, which your post has highlighted. Why do you think you should deserve a chance against a damage dealing (visible) tank in a toe to toe scenario?
Your 50/50 targets should be other assassins and some hybrids, NOT tanks.
as for PD, I still think 20% may be too much.
A merc isn't a tank sorry.
that fight was just left alone, couldn't count how many people ran by just nobody added it was a long fight. this wasn't a 2 minutes boom I just killed a merc. by no means, and like I said. he didn't use DT which tips the scale of any 1 on 1 with a merc in this game.
I'm all for limiting envenomed weapons on assassins, doesn't matter to me because I barely use them anyhow and when I do they aren't of lifebane quality. But make them immune to purge, because 5 minute purge completely negates the whole spec line. See hidden potions completely negates a whole spec line.
so keep the nerf train coming, fact is... at the end of the day. Skill will win every time no matter how much you nerf a class and its playability. People will still suck and people will still cry what an assassin should or shouldn't be doing which is ASSASINIATING people..
And just so we are clear, 95% of the people who say assassins are overpowered couldn't kill anyone on one. Which I find hilarious. I love watching the i50s run around thinking they can just hit a few buttons and win.. when its so far from the truth its hilarious lmao.
You cant just redefine things just because it suits you.
A merc is a light tank by definition. This is a tank that has given up some tankiness for higher damage (this does not mean they are not tanks!). Their main thing being high melee damage. Toe to toe fights should be their domain of dominance. As an assassin, going toe to toe with one should be what you are aiming to avoid, and if you dont, you should expect a bad outcome. Thats not to say you shouldnt be able to kill them, its just you shouldnt in the manner you described (toe to toe). DT should not be the deciding factor in this scenario.
I'm glad you agree somewhat with limiting env (that is my main argument anyway) but you contradict yourself somewhat here. I thought you said you used multiple poisons on your target in order to gain this win? (LB or not, having dot added to ever swing is a huge advantage, even if lower tier, and thats not even counting the other effect poisons.)
Correct, skill should be a deciding factor, but choosing to go toe to toe with a light tank and expecting any chance to win as an assassin is not skill. Thats more a sign that something is not quite balanced according to game original design (caster>tank/light tank, Tank/light tank>assassin, Assassin>caster) Using reactionaries is also not skill, thats just the rng in affect. Kiting them, using the many abilities you have to do so (poisons/snares/stealth/stealth high dps openers), while keeping their melee damage to a minimal (keeping away from straight up toe to toe) would be a different story, as you would be playing to your advantages while magnifying their weakness. This would be an indication of skill, as you would have out played an opponent against game design, but would not indicate a broken balance (skill>design).
BTW the difference to per hit between 39+15 spec to 50+15 (look at the calculations yourself) is not that much to actually really made much, if any, impact on the fight you described. You also forget that the merc was likely using DW styles which uses the DW WS (not shown) of which they were likely to be 50+15 in, making your argument about spec a moot point, not to mention the spec is widely agreed to be optimal and the most common light tank one.
As for the caster debuff thing. I'm sorry but that is quite a stupid argument. They are glass cannons that need range+time to do their job (caster>tank design), as an assassin you have every advantage over them. The debuff is also only lasts 8 secs at best. If anything, you should be arguing against PD as this IS limiting your ability to do your job as effectively as before (assassin>caster).
Fri 9 Nov 2018 9:39 PM
by
poisonclover
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:05 PMthe fact that you keep stressing the point that 5min purge ruins poisons is so far from reality in itself...but now you even follow it up with a complaint about a resistdebuff....a debuff that can be purged just like your poison???
You are really, really biased and it shows in the majority of comments you make
well purge is up every fight now, everyone has it, so yes in all accounts it does ruin envenom. But let me be clear... I never specced it high enough to make it a liability in all my years in this game. So again, does not affect my gameplay what so ever. but it will affect others who rely on it.
not biased, cold hearted facts, that I know to be true from experience.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 9:55 PM
by
poisonclover
Cider wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 9:37 PMYou cant just redefine things just because it suits you.
A merc is a light tank by definition. This is a tank that has given up some tankiness for higher damage (this does not mean they are not tanks!). Their main thing being high melee damage. Toe to toe fights should be their domain of dominance. As an assassin, going toe to toe with one should be what you are aiming to avoid, and if you dont, you should expect a bad outcome. Thats not to say you shouldnt be able to kill them, its just you shouldnt in the manner you described (toe to toe). DT should not be the deciding factor in this scenario.
I'm glad you agree somewhat with limiting env (that is my main argument anyway) but you contradict yourself somewhat here. I thought you said you used multiple poisons on your target in order to gain this win? (LB or not, having dot added to ever swing is a huge advantage, even if lower tier, and thats not even counting the other effect poisons.)
Correct, skill should be a deciding factor, but choosing to go toe to toe with a light tank and expecting any chance to win as an assassin is not skill. Thats more a sign that something is not quite balanced according to game original design (caster>tank/light tank, Tank/light tank>assassin, Assassin>caster) Using reactionaries is also not skill, thats just the rng in affect. Kiting them, using the many abilities you have to do so (poisons/snares/stealth/stealth high dps openers), while keeping their melee damage to a minimal (keeping away from straight up toe to toe) would be a different story, as you would be playing to your advantages while magnifying their weakness. This would be an indication of skill, as you would have out played an opponent against game design, but would not indicate a broken balance (skill>design).
BTW the difference to per hit between 39+15 spec to 50+15 (look at the calculations yourself) is not that much to actually really made much, if any, impact on the fight you described. You also forget that the merc was likely using DW styles which uses the DW WS (not shown) of which they were likely to be 50+15 in, making your argument about spec a moot point, not to mention the spec is widely agreed to be optimal and the most common light tank one.
Ok, ill explain in greater detail how its done just so you can quite possibly understand.
Disease is what 9% -str?
Weakening envenom -48 str ?
which equates to loss of weapon skill in its self.
weaponskill/con envenom debuff ~
Speccing DW shouldn't increase a mercs Weapon skill as much as speccing 50 in a weapon type.
Attack speed debuff on garrote/achilles chain = evade % goes up
7 seconds stun from evade chain, rear LA Chain.. level 50 style has a DD proc~
And if you honestly think reactionaries aren't skill your out of your mind, most people play with 1 main bar one secondary bar with timers on it.
I have bars specifically set up for certain classes, IE you can only evade stun him once in a fight, after that I no longer use that evade chain due to damage not being the most optimal and the defense penalty attached to those styles. I switch to Critical strike evade chain. loaded with bleeds that also stack with the DoTs.
2 weapons that both proc the equivalent of a level 40 poison DoT that stacks with the envenom poison DoT~
also had red str/con dex/quick and spec af charges up.
Maybe he didn't?
so many factors honestly that might of made this possible but to listen to you spew that an assassin shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with another class is arguable depending on whos at the keys my friend.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 11:29 PM
by
Cider
poisonclover wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 9:55 PMOk, ill explain in greater detail how its done just so you can quite possibly understand.
Disease is what 9% -str?
Weakening envenom -48 str ?
which equates to loss of weapon skill in its self.
weaponskill/con envenom debuff ~
Speccing DW shouldn't increase a mercs Weapon skill as much as speccing 50 in a weapon type.
Attack speed debuff on garrote/achilles chain = evade % goes up
7 seconds stun from evade chain, rear LA Chain.. level 50 style has a DD proc~
And if you honestly think reactionaries aren't skill your out of your mind, most people play with 1 main bar one secondary bar with timers on it.
I have bars specifically set up for certain classes, IE you can only evade stun him once in a fight, after that I no longer use that evade chain due to damage not being the most optimal and the defense penalty attached to those styles. I switch to Critical strike evade chain. loaded with bleeds that also stack with the DoTs.
2 weapons that both proc the equivalent of a level 40 poison DoT that stacks with the envenom poison DoT~
also had red str/con dex/quick and spec af charges up.
Maybe he didn't?
so many factors honestly that might of made this possible but to listen to you spew that an assassin shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with another class is arguable depending on whos at the keys my friend.
You do realise that DW, although not shown, has its own WS right)? But anyhow, even if factoring in 39+15 compared to 50+15, the to hit difference is minute and is unlikely to have had an impact in the scenario you described. Your point on WS and spec is still moot.
Calling reactionaries skill is just laughable. Pulling them off is one of the most basic things of playing this game and made even easier due to queuing. Being able to use them is not skill (chain or not), not being able to use them is just a very poor player.
I am not, and have not said, an assassin shouldnt be able to go toe to toe with just another class. Its much more specific than your misleading false equivocation. Its specifically about an assassin should not be able to go toe to toe with a light tank/tank and expect a reasonable chance to win. Thats according to original game design! You are supposed to be relatively squishy in comparison in this scenario, but what you have indicated is that is not the case currently, which indicates a balance issue regarding this specific circumstance (light tank VS assassins toe to toe). Your argument is like a caster taking a full PA chain to the face because they gave the opportunity to do so, while still expecting a chance to not only survive, but a reasonable chance to win. They obviously shouldnt, but neither should you going toe to toe with a light tank, because, again, this should be their domain of domination, not yours! None of your mighty "skillz" you mentioned should change this, so again, this indicates a balance issue. I have explained the circumstance and tactic in which you should have a reasonable chance to win vs this type of opponent that is not balance breaking (due to risk factor and higher level of skill required to pull off) but you have chosen to simply ignore this.
No matter what you would like to think, your reactionaries (chain or not) are not skill, your using all the poisons is not skill, and choosing to go toe to toe with a light tank as an assassin (not to mention without a pa opener), while expecting a reasonable chance to win, is certainly not skill. You are just taking advantage of game mechanics in a totally unremarkable, mundane, way, yet you expect to be rewarded for doing so against a target you are supposed to be weak against (by design) in a balance breaking fashion. Your whole assassins should be able to assassinate anyone argument is just ignorant of what the class is about and your "mah skillz" argument, is quite frankly, absurd.
As I said before, you should really be concerned regarding PD and should not be (accidentally) highlighting another imbalance.
Fri 9 Nov 2018 11:30 PM
by
Cadebrennus
poisonclover wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 9:55 PMOk, ill explain in greater detail how its done just so you can quite possibly understand.
Disease is what 9% -str?
Weakening envenom -48 str ?
which equates to loss of weapon skill in its self.
weaponskill/con envenom debuff ~
Speccing DW shouldn't increase a mercs Weapon skill as much as speccing 50 in a weapon type.
Attack speed debuff on garrote/achilles chain = evade % goes up
7 seconds stun from evade chain, rear LA Chain.. level 50 style has a DD proc~
And if you honestly think reactionaries aren't skill your out of your mind, most people play with 1 main bar one secondary bar with timers on it.
I have bars specifically set up for certain classes, IE you can only evade stun him once in a fight, after that I no longer use that evade chain due to damage not being the most optimal and the defense penalty attached to those styles. I switch to Critical strike evade chain. loaded with bleeds that also stack with the DoTs.
2 weapons that both proc the equivalent of a level 40 poison DoT that stacks with the envenom poison DoT~
also had red str/con dex/quick and spec af charges up.
Maybe he didn't?
so many factors honestly that might of made this possible but to listen to you spew that an assassin shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with another class is arguable depending on whos at the keys my friend.
You have a pretty good bar/strategy setup in the second half of your post but there's some serious misinformation in the first half.
"Speccing DW shouldn't increase a mercs Weapon skill as much as speccing 50 in a weapon type.
Attack speed debuff on garrote/achilles chain = evade % goes up"
First off, WS only matters for the style being used. If it's an unstyled swing then it defaults to base weapon type. Let's look at a typical Wyrd specced Merc at RR5:
50 DW (total 65 DW)
37 Slash (total 52 Slash)
If the Merc uses a DW style then the game uses the WS from DW plus stats.
If the Merc uses a Slash style the game uses the WS from Slash plus stats.
If the Merc swings unstyled then it will default to Slash unstyled.
The base WS poison applies the debuff and then the Merc will use a DW or Slash or unstyled (Slash) to which the WS debuff is applied to.
If they're specced 50 DW 50 Slash there should be no difference in WS.
Attack Speed Reducers (ASR) has nothing to do with increasing your defence directly. ASRs only do what is in the delve, and that is to reduce attack speed. The only benefit to this is to reduce the number of opportunities to have the enemy a) hit you with weapon styles (and their effects), b) reduce the number of swings coming at you that have potential procs on them and c) reduce the number of times that you are exposed to being hit with poisoned weapons. That's it.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 3:09 AM
by
cortexqc
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:47 PMFalken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:32 PMKoljar wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:51 AMWhich does not help them at all if they get slamed. Neither of the above helps against melee stuns so have your own tanks slam them.
Countering that then requires many points in purge (as you'd want it to be up rather regularly...).
Right, and tanks can now get purge 3 and det 9 for nearly the same cost (37vs34) as casters would spend on PD, caster doesn't have purge yet... seems logical. CC is one of the strongest abilities in this game, it is what sets it apart from so many other games. Det is by far the most desirable and most utilized RA in the game, to just give it away to tanks at this point seems confusing. Unless we are just at the point of trying crazy things to see if we can incentivize people to play tanks more, this was not the case at the beginning of BETA though and I am sure the meta will shift back at launch. The testing grounds are muddied by the fact that it's free fully temped 5L9 50s. Casters have always been strong in the right hands especially at high RRs which is exactly what this i50 testing phase is, but lets not balance the game around 8 man no life players and look more towards the middle ground. If you want a true test put people @ 3L0 rather than 6L0 because the current achievable free RPs is going to be months of play for the average person on the server.
CC duration is insane in DAOC and everyone knows it. That's why Det and Stoic were introduced so that tanks in particular didn't stand around CC'ed for a minute plus being useless in RvR
caster have to wait CC'ed while the train of the melee with purge + det + passive RA magic resist + (stoicism) come to us snre/stun and kill them fast?
PD (30%) is the good wait to have chance to survive 1 or 2 second more, yes it's a good RA at high level but with a BIG COST of RA point ! now is only 20% for the same amount of point...
like falken say actually caster buy PD 9 + purge 3 is 47 point...
while melee can buy DET 9 + purge 3 = 37 and can add Avoidance of magic 5 (10%).
initialy PD is higher than AoM cause magic resist can be really higher than physical resist
Magic resist is based on gear bonus 26% + resist buff 26% + AoM up to 20% and can be boosted with active RA like empty mind 30%
While physical resist is based on gear type (cloth 0%) + self buff 10% + PD up to 30% + some class Active RA.
So with this change i think its not very fair and balanced and at least the PD RA cost need to be lowered ...
Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:31 AM
by
Cadebrennus
cortexqc wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 3:09 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:47 PMFalken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:32 PMRight, and tanks can now get purge 3 and det 9 for nearly the same cost (37vs34) as casters would spend on PD, caster doesn't have purge yet... seems logical. CC is one of the strongest abilities in this game, it is what sets it apart from so many other games. Det is by far the most desirable and most utilized RA in the game, to just give it away to tanks at this point seems confusing. Unless we are just at the point of trying crazy things to see if we can incentivize people to play tanks more, this was not the case at the beginning of BETA though and I am sure the meta will shift back at launch. The testing grounds are muddied by the fact that it's free fully temped 5L9 50s. Casters have always been strong in the right hands especially at high RRs which is exactly what this i50 testing phase is, but lets not balance the game around 8 man no life players and look more towards the middle ground. If you want a true test put people @ 3L0 rather than 6L0 because the current achievable free RPs is going to be months of play for the average person on the server.
CC duration is insane in DAOC and everyone knows it. That's why Det and Stoic were introduced so that tanks in particular didn't stand around CC'ed for a minute plus being useless in RvR
caster have to wait CC'ed while the train of the melee with purge + det + passive RA magic resist + (stoicism) come to us snre/stun and kill them fast?
PD (30%) is the good wait to have chance to survive 1 or 2 second more, yes it's a good RA at high level but with a BIG COST of RA point ! now is only 20% for the same amount of point...
like falken say actually caster buy PD 9 + purge 3 is 47 point...
while melee can buy DET 9 + purge 3 = 37 and can add Avoidance of magic 5 (10%).
initialy PD is higher than AoM cause magic resist can be really higher than physical resist
Magic resist is based on gear bonus 26% + resist buff 26% + AoM up to 20% and can be boosted with active RA like empty mind 30%
While physical resist is based on gear type (cloth 0%) + self buff 10% + PD up to 30% + some class Active RA.
So with this change i think its not very fair and balanced and at least the PD RA cost need to be lowered ...
You do realize that two assisting casters with debuffs can take out a target faster than two tanks can, don't you?
Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:31 AM
by
Waygone
Seriously think they might have jumped the gun on the PD nerf. Even with the huge RA investment in PD casters went down pretty damn fast. The ONLY exception was a life tapping caster with MOC5 and/or if they were being guarded by tank. And that is a HUGE RA investment..cortexqc wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 3:09 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:47 PMFalken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:32 PMRight, and tanks can now get purge 3 and det 9 for nearly the same cost (37vs34) as casters would spend on PD, caster doesn't have purge yet... seems logical. CC is one of the strongest abilities in this game, it is what sets it apart from so many other games. Det is by far the most desirable and most utilized RA in the game, to just give it away to tanks at this point seems confusing. Unless we are just at the point of trying crazy things to see if we can incentivize people to play tanks more, this was not the case at the beginning of BETA though and I am sure the meta will shift back at launch. The testing grounds are muddied by the fact that it's free fully temped 5L9 50s. Casters have always been strong in the right hands especially at high RRs which is exactly what this i50 testing phase is, but lets not balance the game around 8 man no life players and look more towards the middle ground. If you want a true test put people @ 3L0 rather than 6L0 because the current achievable free RPs is going to be months of play for the average person on the server.
CC duration is insane in DAOC and everyone knows it. That's why Det and Stoic were introduced so that tanks in particular didn't stand around CC'ed for a minute plus being useless in RvR
caster have to wait CC'ed while the train of the melee with purge + det + passive RA magic resist + (stoicism) come to us snre/stun and kill them fast?
PD (30%) is the good wait to have chance to survive 1 or 2 second more, yes it's a good RA at high level but with a BIG COST of RA point ! now is only 20% for the same amount of point...
like falken say actually caster buy PD 9 + purge 3 is 47 point...
while melee can buy DET 9 + purge 3 = 37 and can add Avoidance of magic 5 (10%).
initialy PD is higher than AoM cause magic resist can be really higher than physical resist
Magic resist is based on gear bonus 26% + resist buff 26% + AoM up to 20% and can be boosted with active RA like empty mind 30%
While physical resist is based on gear type (cloth 0%) + self buff 10% + PD up to 30% + some class Active RA.
So with this change i think its not very fair and balanced and at least the PD RA cost need to be lowered ...
I would like to see a video of one poster said of 4 tanks including 2 savages quadhitting a caster for a minute just to take him down. Think that was complete BS unless I see proof.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:34 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Actually tonight in CV overextending tanks died faster than a lot of the casters did, unless the casters had 4-5 tanks on them (I'm looking at you Midgard!)
Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:37 AM
by
Waygone
How long would it take 2 savages to take out a caster? Maybe 1-2 seconds longer than 2 casters (with the perfect debuffing setup) to take out one of those 2 tanks especially if they have high AoM.Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:31 AMcortexqc wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 3:09 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 7:47 PMCC duration is insane in DAOC and everyone knows it. That's why Det and Stoic were introduced so that tanks in particular didn't stand around CC'ed for a minute plus being useless in RvR
caster have to wait CC'ed while the train of the melee with purge + det + passive RA magic resist + (stoicism) come to us snre/stun and kill them fast?
PD (30%) is the good wait to have chance to survive 1 or 2 second more, yes it's a good RA at high level but with a BIG COST of RA point ! now is only 20% for the same amount of point...
like falken say actually caster buy PD 9 + purge 3 is 47 point...
while melee can buy DET 9 + purge 3 = 37 and can add Avoidance of magic 5 (10%).
initialy PD is higher than AoM cause magic resist can be really higher than physical resist
Magic resist is based on gear bonus 26% + resist buff 26% + AoM up to 20% and can be boosted with active RA like empty mind 30%
While physical resist is based on gear type (cloth 0%) + self buff 10% + PD up to 30% + some class Active RA.
So with this change i think its not very fair and balanced and at least the PD RA cost need to be lowered ...
You do realize that two assisting casters with debuffs can take out a target faster than two tanks can, don't you?
Of course the casters have the advantage of range in that scenario
Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:39 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Waygone wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:37 AMHow long would it take 2 savages to take out a caster? Maybe 1-2 seconds longer than 2 casters (with the perfect debuffing setup) to take out one of those 2 tanks especially if they have high AoM.Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:31 AMcortexqc wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 3:09 AMcaster have to wait CC'ed while the train of the melee with purge + det + passive RA magic resist + (stoicism) come to us snre/stun and kill them fast?
PD (30%) is the good wait to have chance to survive 1 or 2 second more, yes it's a good RA at high level but with a BIG COST of RA point ! now is only 20% for the same amount of point...
like falken say actually caster buy PD 9 + purge 3 is 47 point...
while melee can buy DET 9 + purge 3 = 37 and can add Avoidance of magic 5 (10%).
initialy PD is higher than AoM cause magic resist can be really higher than physical resist
Magic resist is based on gear bonus 26% + resist buff 26% + AoM up to 20% and can be boosted with active RA like empty mind 30%
While physical resist is based on gear type (cloth 0%) + self buff 10% + PD up to 30% + some class Active RA.
So with this change i think its not very fair and balanced and at least the PD RA cost need to be lowered ...
You do realize that two assisting casters with debuffs can take out a target faster than two tanks can, don't you?
Of course the casters have the advantage of range in that scenario
I welcome Savages and Berserkers (especially if there's only two of them) in the Hibernian backfield over any other melee class. No Slam, and they're both wearing light armor that is weak to Slash. Much easier to peel and kill before they can do any serious damage.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:46 AM
by
defiasbandit
Physical Defense RA should be changed back.
Many melee players want unfair advantages in RvR here. They have so many advantages they didn't have back during live.
Many melee players want unfair advantages in RvR here. They have so many advantages they didn't have back during live.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:09 AM
by
Cadebrennus
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:46 AMPhysical Defense RA should be changed back.
Many melee players want unfair advantages in RvR here. They have so many advantages they didn't have back during live.
It's far easier to do damage as a physical meleer on Live compared to Phoenix (even considered as a percentage of damage to HP's). Just to start, you can use AF debuff weapons as well as damage type (Slash/Crush/Thrust) debuffing weapons. On Phoenix those options simply aren't available. I'm not even getting into called shots, armor wither, etc.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:18 PM
by
cortexqc
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:09 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:46 AMPhysical Defense RA should be changed back.
Many melee players want unfair advantages in RvR here. They have so many advantages they didn't have back during live.
It's far easier to do damage as a physical meleer on Live compared to Phoenix (even considered as a percentage of damage to HP's). Just to start, you can use AF debuff weapons as well as damage type (Slash/Crush/Thrust) debuffing weapons. On Phoenix those options simply aren't available. I'm not even getting into called shots, armor wither, etc.
don't compare live and phoenix, phoenix is not here to give a live experience... try to have a good judgement on what you see.
i don't play caster main class but i tried to test all classes. even before nerf with PD 30% stealther kill me without difficulty before the end or 1s after stun lock. same with solo encounter melee like blade master or skald.
betwen (resist,det,stoicism,purge) CC are a joke for melee.
We are still waiting video of caster can resist 4 light tank assist... a cabalist (sure leech spec) maybe under MoC and not cced or stun purged. maybe with his 2 cleric(+1 friar possibility) focus heal on them and maybe with BoF Active RA on.
Like i say before it's even more easier to do same for a melee with magic resist cause they start with 50%free (gear+buff) + 20% AoM + active EM 30% add to this with all CC diminishing skills/RA for melee...
so wait and see... but sure PD need to cost much less or changed back to 30%
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:24 PM
by
defiasbandit
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:09 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:46 AMPhysical Defense RA should be changed back.
Many melee players want unfair advantages in RvR here. They have so many advantages they didn't have back during live.
It's far easier to do damage as a physical meleer on Live compared to Phoenix (even considered as a percentage of damage to HP's). Just to start, you can use AF debuff weapons as well as damage type (Slash/Crush/Thrust) debuffing weapons. On Phoenix those options simply aren't available. I'm not even getting into called shots, armor wither, etc.
I'm talking about Shrouded Isles. The melee classes here have been slightly overtuned, especially Assassins. The introduction of PD was one of the best things about new new RA, and now PD has been nerfed with in a day or so? PD was fine.
PD should cost way less or go back to 30%.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:25 PM
by
ghettoblaster
cortexqc wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:18 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:09 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 4:46 AMPhysical Defense RA should be changed back.
Many melee players want unfair advantages in RvR here. They have so many advantages they didn't have back during live.
It's far easier to do damage as a physical meleer on Live compared to Phoenix (even considered as a percentage of damage to HP's). Just to start, you can use AF debuff weapons as well as damage type (Slash/Crush/Thrust) debuffing weapons. On Phoenix those options simply aren't available. I'm not even getting into called shots, armor wither, etc.
don't compare live and phoenix, phoenix is not here to give a live experience... try to have a good judgement on what you see.
i don't play caster main class but i tried to test all classes. even before nerf with PD 30% stealther kill me without difficulty before the end or 1s after stun lock. same with solo encounter melee like blade master or skald.
betwen (resist,det,stoicism,purge) CC are a joke for melee.
We are still waiting video of caster can resist 4 light tank assist... a cabalist (sure leech spec) maybe under MoC and not cced or stun purged. maybe with his 2 cleric(+1 friar possibility) focus heal on them and maybe with BoF Active RA on.
Like i say before it's even more easier to do same for a melee with magic resist cause they start with 50%free (gear+buff) + 20% AoM + active EM 30% add to this with all CC diminishing skills/RA for melee...
so wait and see... but sure PD need to cost much less or changed back to 30%
Stealthier vs a caster is never a win for caster. I dont record and it sounds like you ran solo and a stealther PAd you. Of course you're going to lose. If you think of needs to be lowered in cost or higher delve value that's absurd. I went back to caster and group was having no issues with 3 melee trains on us never dying. So not sure what you are seeing but as a caster if you get caught you should die. 3 caster with debuff nukes drops any class extremely fast. You're saying a squishy should be able to front life with moc?
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:27 PM
by
defiasbandit
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:25 PMcortexqc wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:18 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:09 AMIt's far easier to do damage as a physical meleer on Live compared to Phoenix (even considered as a percentage of damage to HP's). Just to start, you can use AF debuff weapons as well as damage type (Slash/Crush/Thrust) debuffing weapons. On Phoenix those options simply aren't available. I'm not even getting into called shots, armor wither, etc.
don't compare live and phoenix, phoenix is not here to give a live experience... try to have a good judgement on what you see.
i don't play caster main class but i tried to test all classes. even before nerf with PD 30% stealther kill me without difficulty before the end or 1s after stun lock. same with solo encounter melee like blade master or skald.
betwen (resist,det,stoicism,purge) CC are a joke for melee.
We are still waiting video of caster can resist 4 light tank assist... a cabalist (sure leech spec) maybe under MoC and not cced or stun purged. maybe with his 2 cleric(+1 friar possibility) focus heal on them and maybe with BoF Active RA on.
Like i say before it's even more easier to do same for a melee with magic resist cause they start with 50%free (gear+buff) + 20% AoM + active EM 30% add to this with all CC diminishing skills/RA for melee...
so wait and see... but sure PD need to cost much less or changed back to 30%
Stealthier vs a caster is never a win for caster. I dont record and it sounds like you ran solo and a stealther PAd you. Of course you're going to lose. If you think of needs to be lowered in cost or higher delve value that's absurd. I went back to caster and group was having no issues with 3 melee trains on us never dying. So not sure what you are seeing but as a caster if you get caught you should die. 3 caster with debuff nukes drops any class extremely fast. You're saying a squishy should be able to front life with moc?
Melee damage is too high on this server relative to casters. During SI you wouldn't get near 1 shot by PA everytime you fought an Assassin. A lot of the melee classe are out of wack here and PD helped balance them.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:32 PM
by
Yint
Comparing det 9 to PD 9 is a joke... there is no logical reason to compare det cost to pd cost. PD is more comparable to AoM, and they are set equally now. For another illogical argument, take your 10 point discount on MotA for these new RAs (no acuity5 req) and consider that your PD points. Free PD 5 for all casters right there 
.
Defias, stop complaining about getting PA'd by stealthers good god dude. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously ever.
.Defias, stop complaining about getting PA'd by stealthers good god dude. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously ever.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:36 PM
by
ghettoblaster
Falken wrote: ↑Fri 9 Nov 2018 12:59 AM34 point investment for purely survivability, which just got nerfed by 33% seems a bit rough. Especially considering tanks just got a free 12 point reduction. BMs shouldn't be solo 3 shotting my fully buffed BD anyhow.
Purge 3 + PD 9 = 49 points just to survive and not die in a slam on every fight. 5L9 is whats required to get that many points, doesn't even include being able to continue actually casting or endurance regen so throw another ~12 points in there for the bare minimums there.
Det 9 + Stoicism seems pretty OP as well, lets look into those stacking and make CC matter on tanks.
As a caster should you not kite? Maybe once in a blue moon should you get caught super out of position but ultimately it is bad play. Now if you are saying that as normal people are playing it is fine. But in the hands of the better players its literally crippling with prekiting. You stand no chance against a set 8 caster group on tank now. And let's he honest everyone is much better than the past. So it is 100% tipping the scales
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:40 PM
by
defiasbandit
Yint wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:32 PMComparing det 9 to PD 9 is a joke... there is no logical reason to compare det cost to pd cost. PD is more comparable to AoM, and they are set equally now. For another illogical argument, take your 10 point discount on MotA for these new RAs (no acuity5 req) and consider that your PD points. Free PD 5 for all casters right there
Defias, stop complaining about getting PA'd by stealthers good god dude. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously ever.
I'm complaining? Det 9 just got reduced and PD nerfed? Bring back old PD. Mouse clicking meleers should not get their way. Falken is right.
Yeah my bad that I'm resentful that 1/3 of the server is stealthers with undetectable stealth as Assassins land PAs for 80% of your hp.
Getting a geared and high RR Assassin in SI was rare. Here you seem to see them around every other tree.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:49 PM
by
ghettoblaster
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:40 PMYint wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:32 PMComparing det 9 to PD 9 is a joke... there is no logical reason to compare det cost to pd cost. PD is more comparable to AoM, and they are set equally now. For another illogical argument, take your 10 point discount on MotA for these new RAs (no acuity5 req) and consider that your PD points. Free PD 5 for all casters right there
Defias, stop complaining about getting PA'd by stealthers good god dude. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously ever.
I'm complaining? Det 9 just got reduced and PD nerfed? Bring back old PD. Mouse clicking meleers should not get their way. Falken is right.
Yeah my bad that I'm resentful that 1/3 of the server is stealthers with undetectable stealth as Assassins land PAs for 80% of your hp.
Getting a geared and high RR Assassin in SI was rare. Here you seem to see them around every other tree.
The risk you run being solo... stealthers hunt solos but cry until you get what you want right? Your point just seems like whining about stealthers killing a solo caster or dropping you fast. You wear no armor and do no physical dps you get caught you die. Or maybe invest in your class and find a decent 7 to play with
Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:51 PM
by
Cadebrennus
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:40 PMYint wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:32 PMComparing det 9 to PD 9 is a joke... there is no logical reason to compare det cost to pd cost. PD is more comparable to AoM, and they are set equally now. For another illogical argument, take your 10 point discount on MotA for these new RAs (no acuity5 req) and consider that your PD points. Free PD 5 for all casters right there
Defias, stop complaining about getting PA'd by stealthers good god dude. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously ever.
I'm complaining? Det 9 just got reduced and PD nerfed? Bring back old PD. Mouse clicking meleers should not get their way. Falken is right.
Yeah my bad that I'm resentful that 1/3 of the server is stealthers with undetectable stealth as Assassins land PAs for 80% of your hp.
Getting a geared and high RR Assassin in SI was rare. Here you seem to see them around every other tree.
Run a stealther in your group to help find the enemy Stealthers. Problem solved. Problem staying solved.
Sat 10 Nov 2018 8:30 PM
by
defiasbandit
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:49 PMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:40 PMYint wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:32 PMComparing det 9 to PD 9 is a joke... there is no logical reason to compare det cost to pd cost. PD is more comparable to AoM, and they are set equally now. For another illogical argument, take your 10 point discount on MotA for these new RAs (no acuity5 req) and consider that your PD points. Free PD 5 for all casters right there
Defias, stop complaining about getting PA'd by stealthers good god dude. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously ever.
I'm complaining? Det 9 just got reduced and PD nerfed? Bring back old PD. Mouse clicking meleers should not get their way. Falken is right.
Yeah my bad that I'm resentful that 1/3 of the server is stealthers with undetectable stealth as Assassins land PAs for 80% of your hp.
Getting a geared and high RR Assassin in SI was rare. Here you seem to see them around every other tree.
The risk you run being solo... stealthers hunt solos but cry until you get what you want right? Your point just seems like whining about stealthers killing a solo caster or dropping you fast. You wear no armor and do no physical dps you get caught you die. Or maybe invest in your class and find a decent 7 to play with
Nice try Ghettoblaster. Assassins are overtuned here. Do you see me complain about archers? No. Nerf stealth or nerf Assassin damage somehow.
Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:17 AM
by
ghettoblaster
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 8:30 PMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:49 PMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:40 PMI'm complaining? Det 9 just got reduced and PD nerfed? Bring back old PD. Mouse clicking meleers should not get their way. Falken is right.
Yeah my bad that I'm resentful that 1/3 of the server is stealthers with undetectable stealth as Assassins land PAs for 80% of your hp.
Getting a geared and high RR Assassin in SI was rare. Here you seem to see them around every other tree.
The risk you run being solo... stealthers hunt solos but cry until you get what you want right? Your point just seems like whining about stealthers killing a solo caster or dropping you fast. You wear no armor and do no physical dps you get caught you die. Or maybe invest in your class and find a decent 7 to play with
Nice try Ghettoblaster. Assassins are overtuned here. Do you see me complain about archers? No. Nerf stealth or nerf Assassin damage somehow.
So your only argument is that a stealther killed you on a solo caster his damage is too high? Roll a sorc be fast with qbinds purge moc lifetap debuff lifetap. Get distance lifetap lifetap. Get a SM same thing. Nerf everything because you got ganked solo... please bring something else to the table because I'm about to show you videos of live pre si and si of assassins 1 shotting people caster sitting or get PA chain off. How about we talk about stealthers missing their opening?
Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:40 AM
by
defiasbandit
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:17 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 8:30 PMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:49 PMThe risk you run being solo... stealthers hunt solos but cry until you get what you want right? Your point just seems like whining about stealthers killing a solo caster or dropping you fast. You wear no armor and do no physical dps you get caught you die. Or maybe invest in your class and find a decent 7 to play with
Nice try Ghettoblaster. Assassins are overtuned here. Do you see me complain about archers? No. Nerf stealth or nerf Assassin damage somehow.
So your only argument is that a stealther killed you on a solo caster his damage is too high? Roll a sorc be fast with qbinds purge moc lifetap debuff lifetap. Get distance lifetap lifetap. Get a SM same thing. Nerf everything because you got ganked solo... please bring something else to the table because I'm about to show you videos of live pre si and si of assassins 1 shotting people caster sitting or get PA chain off. How about we talk about stealthers missing their opening?
Ghettoblaster my argument is as follows.
On Phoenix Assassins have tons of advantages they didn't used to have. They have extra spec points for Damage RAs. They have access to full temps and raid weapons with ease. They can level to 50 very fast. Think how long it took in Classic. This can make them very powerful as we know back during SI.
Remember that back during SI it was a lot more time consuming to full temp and get the right weapons. Here that can be achieved in a week. Sure there were really strong Assassins back during Classic, but they were few and far between. On Phoenix you see them everywhere. Near undetectable stealth, PAs for close to 1k, high HP sometimes as much as 1800.
Now they have access to 5 minute purge, vanish etc.. It becomes overkill alright. Many of us are just asking for some slight tweaks. I understand that nerfing classes like Shadowblades or Nightshades can make them unviable, but having a high RR/geared Assassin during Si was more of a rare sight which in turn balanced them.
Just look at the stats. Stealthers are overrepresented here by far. Maybe that will change at launch, but many of us are skeptical.
Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:34 AM
by
ghettoblaster
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:40 AMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:17 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 8:30 PMNice try Ghettoblaster. Assassins are overtuned here. Do you see me complain about archers? No. Nerf stealth or nerf Assassin damage somehow.
So your only argument is that a stealther killed you on a solo caster his damage is too high? Roll a sorc be fast with qbinds purge moc lifetap debuff lifetap. Get distance lifetap lifetap. Get a SM same thing. Nerf everything because you got ganked solo... please bring something else to the table because I'm about to show you videos of live pre si and si of assassins 1 shotting people caster sitting or get PA chain off. How about we talk about stealthers missing their opening?
Ghettoblaster my argument is as follows.
On Phoenix Assassins have tons of advantages they didn't used to have. They have extra spec points for Damage RAs. They have access to full temps and raid weapons with ease. They can level to 50 very fast. Think how long it took in Classic. This can make them very powerful as we know back during SI.
Remember that back during SI it was a lot more time consuming to full temp and get the right weapons. Here that can be achieved in a week. Sure there were really strong Assassins back during Classic, but they were few and far between. On Phoenix you see them everywhere. Near undetectable stealth, PAs for close to 1k, high HP sometimes as much as 1800.
Now they have access to 5 minute purge, vanish etc.. It becomes overkill alright. Many of us are just asking for some slight tweaks. I understand that nerfing classes like Shadowblades or Nightshades can make them unviable, but having a high RR/geared Assassin during Si was more of a rare sight which in turn balanced them.
Just look at the stats. Stealthers are overrepresented here by far. Maybe that will change at launch, but many of us are skeptical.
So nerf all melee so you dont die to a stealther? I just don't see how that justifies it. Adding PD doesnt solve your problem it creates another one with bigger imbalances. Come up with a solid way to handle it that doesnt throw off core mechanics. But if your idea is just make it so I can survive as a caster to a PA chain you need a new game as the PvP might be a bit too much
Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:59 AM
by
defiasbandit
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:34 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:40 AMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:17 AMSo your only argument is that a stealther killed you on a solo caster his damage is too high? Roll a sorc be fast with qbinds purge moc lifetap debuff lifetap. Get distance lifetap lifetap. Get a SM same thing. Nerf everything because you got ganked solo... please bring something else to the table because I'm about to show you videos of live pre si and si of assassins 1 shotting people caster sitting or get PA chain off. How about we talk about stealthers missing their opening?
Ghettoblaster my argument is as follows.
On Phoenix Assassins have tons of advantages they didn't used to have. They have extra spec points for Damage RAs. They have access to full temps and raid weapons with ease. They can level to 50 very fast. Think how long it took in Classic. This can make them very powerful as we know back during SI.
Remember that back during SI it was a lot more time consuming to full temp and get the right weapons. Here that can be achieved in a week. Sure there were really strong Assassins back during Classic, but they were few and far between. On Phoenix you see them everywhere. Near undetectable stealth, PAs for close to 1k, high HP sometimes as much as 1800.
Now they have access to 5 minute purge, vanish etc.. It becomes overkill alright. Many of us are just asking for some slight tweaks. I understand that nerfing classes like Shadowblades or Nightshades can make them unviable, but having a high RR/geared Assassin during Si was more of a rare sight which in turn balanced them.
Just look at the stats. Stealthers are overrepresented here by far. Maybe that will change at launch, but many of us are skeptical.
So nerf all melee so you dont die to a stealther? I just don't see how that justifies it. Adding PD doesnt solve your problem it creates another one with bigger imbalances. Come up with a solid way to handle it that doesnt throw off core mechanics. But if your idea is just make it so I can survive as a caster to a PA chain you need a new game as the PvP might be a bit too much
We don't need overtuned PD here. PD hurts a lot of classes like Archers and other melee which isn't really necessary. I was talking specifically about Assassins.
Assassin damage is a bit overtuned here. Stealth is very hard to detect as visible. The best solution is to tweak stealth slightly or perhaps even make Stealth Lore potions more viable.
Sun 11 Nov 2018 6:03 AM
by
Cadebrennus
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:59 AMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:34 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:40 AMGhettoblaster my argument is as follows.
On Phoenix Assassins have tons of advantages they didn't used to have. They have extra spec points for Damage RAs. They have access to full temps and raid weapons with ease. They can level to 50 very fast. Think how long it took in Classic. This can make them very powerful as we know back during SI.
Remember that back during SI it was a lot more time consuming to full temp and get the right weapons. Here that can be achieved in a week. Sure there were really strong Assassins back during Classic, but they were few and far between. On Phoenix you see them everywhere. Near undetectable stealth, PAs for close to 1k, high HP sometimes as much as 1800.
Now they have access to 5 minute purge, vanish etc.. It becomes overkill alright. Many of us are just asking for some slight tweaks. I understand that nerfing classes like Shadowblades or Nightshades can make them unviable, but having a high RR/geared Assassin during Si was more of a rare sight which in turn balanced them.
Just look at the stats. Stealthers are overrepresented here by far. Maybe that will change at launch, but many of us are skeptical.
So nerf all melee so you dont die to a stealther? I just don't see how that justifies it. Adding PD doesnt solve your problem it creates another one with bigger imbalances. Come up with a solid way to handle it that doesnt throw off core mechanics. But if your idea is just make it so I can survive as a caster to a PA chain you need a new game as the PvP might be a bit too much
We don't need overtuned PD here. PD hurts a lot of classes like Rangers and other melee which isn't really necessary. I was talking specifically about Assassins.
Assassin damage is a bit overtuned here. Stealth is very hard to detect as visible. The best solution is to tweak stealth slightly or perhaps even make Stealth Lore potions more viable.
Get roving stealth lore. It's called inviting a stealther to run with you.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 11:42 AM
by
ghettoblaster
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:59 AMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:34 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 2:40 AMGhettoblaster my argument is as follows.
On Phoenix Assassins have tons of advantages they didn't used to have. They have extra spec points for Damage RAs. They have access to full temps and raid weapons with ease. They can level to 50 very fast. Think how long it took in Classic. This can make them very powerful as we know back during SI.
Remember that back during SI it was a lot more time consuming to full temp and get the right weapons. Here that can be achieved in a week. Sure there were really strong Assassins back during Classic, but they were few and far between. On Phoenix you see them everywhere. Near undetectable stealth, PAs for close to 1k, high HP sometimes as much as 1800.
Now they have access to 5 minute purge, vanish etc.. It becomes overkill alright. Many of us are just asking for some slight tweaks. I understand that nerfing classes like Shadowblades or Nightshades can make them unviable, but having a high RR/geared Assassin during Si was more of a rare sight which in turn balanced them.
Just look at the stats. Stealthers are overrepresented here by far. Maybe that will change at launch, but many of us are skeptical.
So nerf all melee so you dont die to a stealther? I just don't see how that justifies it. Adding PD doesnt solve your problem it creates another one with bigger imbalances. Come up with a solid way to handle it that doesnt throw off core mechanics. But if your idea is just make it so I can survive as a caster to a PA chain you need a new game as the PvP might be a bit too much
We don't need overtuned PD here. PD hurts a lot of classes like Archers and other melee which isn't really necessary. I was talking specifically about Assassins.
Assassin damage is a bit overtuned here. Stealth is very hard to detect as visible. The best solution is to tweak stealth slightly or perhaps even make Stealth Lore potions more viable.
When you kid gets let's the other team score a goal do you tell your kid it's ok we will make them play with their legs together so then can hop?
assasin damage has been overturned in the wrong way because of complainers Just like you. If you cant handle the game stick to pve this game wasnt intended to be a hand holding session and crying is proving my point.
If you want the chance at dying then play daoc but all the changes for whiny players who cant hang is seriously what's wrong with this world. (You're the problem just quit)
Tue 20 Nov 2018 1:01 PM
by
Nehm
@defiasbandit you seem very stuck up on the "easy access to raid weapons etc" thing. In 99% of the cases it has zero (0) impact. There are very few drop only ("raid weapons"
in this patch that has any significant advantage over crafted weapons. Especially when you can craft/imbue all the very same procs. And even then the difference is so tiny insignificant. The handful of "extra slow" drop weapons are not usuable by assassins anyway (they were during first stage of beta, but it has since been fixed). Even back in the 1.65 era a 99% temp was pretty easy to obtain, and a good player in a 99% crafted only temp would win over a less good player with free access to all items in the game any day. Go back to discussing the RAs, but leave items out of the discussion.
in this patch that has any significant advantage over crafted weapons. Especially when you can craft/imbue all the very same procs. And even then the difference is so tiny insignificant. The handful of "extra slow" drop weapons are not usuable by assassins anyway (they were during first stage of beta, but it has since been fixed). Even back in the 1.65 era a 99% temp was pretty easy to obtain, and a good player in a 99% crafted only temp would win over a less good player with free access to all items in the game any day. Go back to discussing the RAs, but leave items out of the discussion.
Tue 20 Nov 2018 4:54 PM
by
defiasbandit
ghettoblaster wrote: ↑Tue 20 Nov 2018 11:42 AMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:59 AMghettoblaster wrote: ↑Sun 11 Nov 2018 3:34 AMSo nerf all melee so you dont die to a stealther? I just don't see how that justifies it. Adding PD doesnt solve your problem it creates another one with bigger imbalances. Come up with a solid way to handle it that doesnt throw off core mechanics. But if your idea is just make it so I can survive as a caster to a PA chain you need a new game as the PvP might be a bit too much
We don't need overtuned PD here. PD hurts a lot of classes like Archers and other melee which isn't really necessary. I was talking specifically about Assassins.
Assassin damage is a bit overtuned here. Stealth is very hard to detect as visible. The best solution is to tweak stealth slightly or perhaps even make Stealth Lore potions more viable.
When you kid gets let's the other team score a goal do you tell your kid it's ok we will make them play with their legs together so then can hop?
assasin damage has been overturned in the wrong way because of complainers Just like you. If you cant handle the game stick to pve this game wasnt intended to be a hand holding session and crying is proving my point.
If you want the chance at dying then play daoc but all the changes for whiny players who cant hang is seriously what's wrong with this world. (You're the problem just quit)
I am the one scoring all the goals.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.
Return to Tavern or the latest topics