2021-07-09 Friday - Phoenix Freeshard

- style direct damage and style heal effects are now affected by the base weapon speed
-- the shown delve value will be used at speed 3.5, slower weapons use a higher delve, faster weapons a lower one
-- most existing style proc dds, especially those available to 2h users, have already been adjusted accordingly
- friar changes
-- friar style direct damage procs now scale with dex instead of strength
-- friars lost their offensive spreadheal proc group buff
-- the side follow up is now the backstyle follow up
-- the side opener style now has an 11 second snare
-- the back opener now has a group heal
-- the new back follow up now has a spreadheal
-- the evade opener now has a 5 second stun
-- the evade follow up now has the pbae dd proc that was previously on the side follow up

Fri 9 Jul 2021 2:32 PM by Blitze

Much appreciated move away from the strafe-stun VW playstyle for Friars!

Fri 9 Jul 2021 5:42 PM by Magesty

A little confusing to read it this way rather than just listing the new styles. Let me get this straight--

Side->snare
Back->group heal
Back follow up (lvl 29)->spreadheal
Evade->stun
Evade follow up (lvl 44)-> Blizzard Blade

Although I was low key enjoying being able to blow people completely out of the water by abusing side stun into static cheese, I think these changes are definitely a step in the right direction design-wise. It's great to see heal procs implemented, as it really contributes to the class flavor and is in line with their archetype. The reversion to being a reactionary fighter makes a lot more sense for the class, even if it lowers their power level across the board.

I am, however, a little puzzled by the apparent 180 on design philosophy for the class. The initial styles were quite clearly turning them into a positional based melee DPS. This was obvious, and going into it pretty much anyone looking at the style trees knew what the gameplay results were going to be. Did the staff/player council change their minds on this approach? These style changes are a SIGNIFICANT reduction in potential DPS for the Friar, and completely change the way they are played. I'm just not sure how that happens if there were any design parameters in place when initially implementing these style changes.

Fri 9 Jul 2021 7:50 PM by

gruenesschaf

Magesty wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Jul 2021 5:42 PM
I am, however, a little puzzled by the apparent 180 on design philosophy for the class. The initial styles were quite clearly turning them into a positional based melee DPS. This was obvious, and going into it pretty much anyone looking at the style trees knew what the gameplay results were going to be. Did the staff/player council change their minds on this approach? These style changes are a SIGNIFICANT reduction in potential DPS for the Friar, and completely change the way they are played. I'm just not sure how that happens if there were any design parameters in place when initially implementing these style changes.

Initially they weren't supposed to have any toys on their styles but the side follow up dd slipped through and was then left until after the (announced) pass to make it more fitting, which this update largely represents.

Fri 9 Jul 2021 10:17 PM by Magesty

TFW your sieve is actually a hula hoop

Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:41 AM by averok83

Remove both side stun and backsnare killed the friar melee utility.

No way to be useful in assist train , no way to kill no melee classes that use snare / diseases.

No way to avoid classes that wanna try kite kill you when you finally reach them.

So atm friar is only a grp related class , rej spec as old play style, heal and side peel
Staff spec sounds good if someone still fight you in melee and not try to kite you.. ... noone at all play like this..

And finally , still vw have backstun + follow-up dd style, side stun+ follow-up pbaoe, lifetap , castsnare .. nice nice .. really balanced.

Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:44 AM by ExcretusMaximus

averok83 wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:41 AM
Remove both side stun and backsnare killed the friar melee utility.

No way to be useful in assist train , no way to kill no melee classes that use snare / diseases.

No way to avoid classes that wanna try kite kill you when you finally reach them.

So atm friar is only a grp related class , rej spec as old play style, heal and side peel
Staff spec sounds good if someone still fight you in melee and not try to kite you.. ... noone at all play like this..

And finally , still vw have backstun + follow-up dd style, side stun+ follow-up pbaoe, lifetap , castsnare .. nice nice .. really balanced.

Congratulations, you're one of a dozen melee Friars who doesn't like the change. Meanwhile, the one hundred rejuvenation Friars are happy with it. They don't balance around niche specs.

Sat 10 Jul 2021 8:22 AM by averok83

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:44 AM
averok83 wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:41 AM
Remove both side stun and backsnare killed the friar melee utility.

No way to be useful in assist train , no way to kill no melee classes that use snare / diseases.

No way to avoid classes that wanna try kite kill you when you finally reach them.

So atm friar is only a grp related class , rej spec as old play style, heal and side peel
Staff spec sounds good if someone still fight you in melee and not try to kite you.. ... noone at all play like this..

And finally , still vw have backstun + follow-up dd style, side stun+ follow-up pbaoe, lifetap , castsnare .. nice nice .. really balanced.

Congratulations, you're one of a dozen melee Friars who doesn't like the change. Meanwhile, the one hundred rejuvenation Friars are happy with it. They don't balance around niche specs.

As i told, atm rej spec is the only one available.
Useless then to put a evade or parry stun or evade pbaoe dmg.

Put all healing styles and tell , friar is only a healer backup.

That's all..

Sat 10 Jul 2021 10:50 AM by DJ2000

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Jul 2021 1:16 PM
- friar changes
-- friar style direct damage procs now scale with dex instead of strength
-- friars lost their offensive spreadheal proc group buff
-- the side follow up is now the backstyle follow up
-- the side opener style now has an 11 second snare
-- the back opener now has a group heal
-- the new back follow up now has a spreadheal
-- the evade opener now has a 5 second stun
-- the evade follow up now has the pbae dd proc that was previously on the side follow up

Friar: Staff
Requirement...................Opener..................................................Follow Up
After Evade.....................Counter Evade (25)............................Figure Eight (44)
...........................................+10 +5 10..............................................+15 +5 15
...........................................230...........................................................269
...........................................Stun, 5s...................................................Damage PbAoE-350 175d
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After Parry......................Defender's Fury (8)..............................Friar's Fury (39)
..........................................+5 +10 10...............................................+10 +5 25
...........................................201............................................................224
..........................................Haste Debuff, 21%, 20s.......................Stun, 8s
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anytimer........................Quick Strike (10)
.........................................+10 -10 5
.........................................140
.........................................Taunt
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anytimer........................Holy Staff (34)..........................................Excommunicate (50)
........................................+5 +5 15....................................................+5 0 15
........................................132................................................................165
...............................................................................................................Damage: 75
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Positional: Back..........Friar's Friend (18).....................................Banish (29)
.......................................+10 0 15......................................................+10 0 20
........................................154................................................................234
........................................Grp-Heal, ??? Value ................................Spread-Heal, ??? Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Positional: Side...........Double Strike (15)
........................................+10 +5 5
........................................195
........................................Snare, 60%, 11s

Did i get this right?

I can't help the feeling that this seems overall more like a regression for the Friar. Rej-Friars will do cheer for the return of the self-side-peel though.

The addition of a Spread-Heal is interesting, as Spread-Heals are not affected by Diseases.
The removal of the heal proc is a big loss though, that in no way the "heal styles" can ever compensate, BUT ... the procs may have been a bit overtuned in the first place.
The removal of the back-snare is a big hit as well.

If i could choose, then i would keep the opener-followup chains as is, but :
- Keep the Side as is
- turn the Back chain into a Stun + the PbAoE-350 DD
- turn the Evade chain into Snare + Spread-Heal

Sat 10 Jul 2021 1:09 PM by Raijyn

honestly, just give the three resistance to another char on alb and be done with it.
The fact that Alb Grps have to have a Friar for the resist package is already a desaster.
Friar doesn't provide anything for grp play. none. Only thing Mythic did, was to beef up the rej line, so Albs
could finally have a full resis package.

Mon 19 Jul 2021 3:34 PM by soremir

This change is a real shame. RIP staff friar.

Mon 19 Jul 2021 4:32 PM by Magesty

I haven’t been playing too much lately, but I’ve had a few 1v1s and 2vXs on my low rank Friar and it still seems pretty viable. Evade stun gives you time to get two styles off so you can do the follow up proc and then start your back chain. This is great damage and huge healing on a 25 sec stun timer that can be extended and then reset with a 5 point/10m CD RA.

Having a side snare gives you what is essentially an anytime style to kite out some of the heavier melee classes that are a tougher matchup in straight up melee.

Ultimately, the changes suit the class archetype a lot better than the previous iteration. Even if the damage potential is a good deal lower than a few weeks ago, it is still stronger and far more interesting than the original staff line.