AOE DQ Debuff balance - Phoenix Freeshard

Over the last 6 months, when the energy train in hib became the new meta in 8v8 i realised a lot of elds wanted to play deep mana spec for it and why shouldn't they?
There is only 1 reason why it's not viable = the lack of a lower level aoe DQ Debuff.

Sorc Body line has AOE D/Q debuffs starting at speclvl3 and in Matter starting at speclvl15.
SM Darkness line has AOE D/Q debuffs starting at speclvl5.

I think that's exactly where it should be, it just needs to be the same for all 3 realms, for balance reasons (this has nothing to do with uniqueness, its pure imbalance!)

(Eld has his first AOE D/Q Debuff at speclvl25 = 48 mana 24 light can't reach it)

I suggest:

Eld get's his single target d/q debuffs at speclvl13 and 18 turned into 350 AOE like sorc (or simply starting at lvl1 like the other 2 realms).

It would also be a great idea to make Voidelds viable, to add a AOE D/Q debuff like in the matter line of sorc for the void line.

Tue 1 Jun 2021 11:33 PM by gotwqqd

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Tue 1 Jun 2021 10:46 PM
Over the last 6 months, when the energy train in hib became the new meta in 8v8 i realised a lot of elds wanted to play deep mana spec for it and why shouldn't they?
There is only 1 reason why it's not viable = the lack of a lower level aoe DQ Debuff.

Sorc Body line has AOE D/Q debuffs starting at speclvl3 and in Matter starting at speclvl15.
SM Darkness line has AOE D/Q debuffs starting at speclvl5.

I think that's exactly where it should be, it just needs to be the same for all 3 realms, for balance reasons (this has nothing to do with uniqueness, its pure imbalance!)

(Eld has his first AOE D/Q Debuff at speclvl25 = 48 mana 24 light can't reach it)

I suggest:

Eld get's his single target d/q debuffs at speclvl13 and 18 turned into 350 AOE like sorc (or simply starting at lvl1 like the other 2 realms).

It would also be a great idea to make Voidelds viable, to add a AOE D/Q debuff like in the matter line of sorc for the void line.

Stun? Disease? NS?

Wed 2 Jun 2021 12:58 AM by Nephamael

Stun? Disease? NS?

I dont understand what you want to say?

Eld has Stun/Disease/NS with all specs that include mana and light anyway.

It's about making more specs viable, not about giving eld anything new.

(Compare to 37light 39 mana, 46 light 28 mana spec)

Wed 2 Jun 2021 2:40 AM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 1 Jun 2021 11:33 PM
Stun? Disease? NS?

Mez? Pet? Root?

NS? Root? Bolts?

What's your point?

Wed 2 Jun 2021 4:57 AM by gotwqqd

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 12:58 AM
Stun? Disease? NS?

I dont understand what you want to say?

Eld has Stun/Disease/NS with all specs that include mana and light anyway.

It's about making more specs viable, not about giving eld anything new.

(Compare to 37light 39 mana, 46 light 28 mana spec)

I think you made my point

Wed 2 Jun 2021 6:01 AM by Ceen

I think we have different opinions what not viable means.

Wed 2 Jun 2021 6:39 AM by gotwqqd

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 6:01 AM
I think we have different opinions what not viable means.

The whole point of placing styles/spells where they are is to limit the power and/or the number of types.

So yes… specs are meant to be non-viable or attainable

Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:12 PM by Nephamael

The whole point of placing styles/spells where they are is to limit the power and/or the number of types.

So yes… specs are meant to be non-viable or attainable

What use would it be to exclude classes/speclines form 8v8? It leads to less variety = more boredom.

Also the hib 8v8 pug scene is already the smallest of the 3 realms, including more elds into it would surely not hurt.

Voidelds are a rarity, the only "viable" voidspec has a grey nearsight and the baseline nuke as stable as a mentalism ment (+can't debuff their bolts like wiz).

Manaelds are very common, but they will stay inferior to splitspec or lightspec regarding 8v8 (lower ns value, lower D/Q debuff value), while being barely lifted into viability.

Thu 3 Jun 2021 12:57 AM by gotwqqd

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:12 PM
The whole point of placing styles/spells where they are is to limit the power and/or the number of types.

So yes… specs are meant to be non-viable or attainable

What use would it be to exclude classes/speclines form 8v8? It leads to less variety = more boredom.

Also the hib 8v8 pug scene is already the smallest of the 3 realms, including more elds into it would surely not hurt.

Voidelds are a rarity, the only "viable" voidspec has a grey nearsight and the baseline nuke as stable as a mentalism ment (+can't debuff their bolts like wiz).

Manaelds are very common, but they will stay inferior to splitspec or lightspec regarding 8v8 (lower ns value, lower D/Q debuff value), while being barely lifted into viability.

It’s not excluding a spec line .
It’s simply not letting you use everything from all of them when you go deep into one

Thu 3 Jun 2021 1:07 AM by Nephamael

It’s simply not letting you use everything from all of them when you go deep into one

Unlike Sorc and SM, who still get it if they do

Fri 4 Jun 2021 2:03 PM by omicidi

Bottom Line: I think elds need a nerf before they need any sort of love.

Elds are a unicorn class, they can do well with almost any spec; and each spec can be optimal based on the group setup.

I’ve found that unless you’re running an enchanted, 39/37 is the best spec. Going full mana unless you’re in a bomb group doesn’t make much sense, at least from my point of view. With the listed spec you literally get everything yellow spec wise and have zero variance on two types of damage arch types (chanter, ment debuffs).

I firmly believe that the eldritch is the most powerful list caster on Phoenix. Every spell in their kit can change a fight:

Stun, disease, mez, ns, snare nukes, spec debuffs, ichor. What more do you want?

Fri 4 Jun 2021 2:11 PM by omicidi

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:12 PM
The whole point of placing styles/spells where they are is to limit the power and/or the number of types.

So yes… specs are meant to be non-viable or attainable

What use would it be to exclude classes/speclines form 8v8? It leads to less variety = more boredom.

Also the hib 8v8 pug scene is already the smallest of the 3 realms, including more elds into it would surely not hurt.

Voidelds are a rarity, the only "viable" voidspec has a grey nearsight and the baseline nuke as stable as a mentalism ment (+can't debuff their bolts like wiz).

Manaelds are very common, but they will stay inferior to splitspec or lightspec regarding 8v8 (lower ns value, lower D/Q debuff value), while being barely lifted into viability.

That’s because you can put window lickers on an alb group and poop on hib groups thru pve. Hib doesn’t need love—alb needs significant nerfs.

1. Theurg shouldn’t be able to cast 15 pets before oop. Theurg shouldn’t be able to cast a pet from across the map. There needs to be risk for a reward and not just reward for playing super far back, petting the pac/bard/shaman and then slow pushing forward and overwhelming the group.
2. Mini shouldn’t be able to charm a red pet, and pet mechanics are out of control.
3. Cabalist pets are out of control with all specs going at least yellow debuff.
4. Mercs with back snare and unlimited endurance with friar buffs
5. Spread heal proc, allowing the entire group to heal as they fight. The numbers produced by this buff is bananas.

The mid/hib fight is ultimately fun. Fighting Albs is toxic abd the most unfun thing. And everyone plays alb because of it. At least 8v8 wise

Fri 4 Jun 2021 2:11 PM by dougrighteous1

omicidi wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jun 2021 2:03 PM
....
I firmly believe that the eldritch is the most powerful list caster on Phoenix.
....

i agree. Only other one I'd consider is healer, although they're not really considered 'casters' but support. Either way, minst, healer and eld are all at the top of utility charts and have way overloaded kits. Could give some utility to shams from healers. minst could dish out some instas to something else, and elds could easily have their spell lines adjusted.

That’s because you can put window lickers on an alb group and poop on hib groups thru pve. Hib doesn’t need love—alb needs significant nerfs.

also hib numbers are killing a declining server. gl in siege battles too

Fri 4 Jun 2021 9:59 PM by Nephamael

this is not about zerg, its about 8v8 only

Fri 4 Jun 2021 10:04 PM by Nephamael

Bottom Line: I think elds need a nerf before they need any sort of love.

Elds are a unicorn class, they can do well with almost any spec; and each spec can be optimal based on the group setup.

When did you last check sorc or cabba utility, lol?

Light and splitspec eld are both strong 8v8 specs who come close to cabba/sorc utility, even tho i would say the advantage of having a pet outperforms what elds bring.

However this threat is 0% about light and splitspec elds, it is 100% about mana and voidelds.

Mon 7 Jun 2021 6:46 PM by omicidi

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jun 2021 10:04 PM
Bottom Line: I think elds need a nerf before they need any sort of love.

Elds are a unicorn class, they can do well with almost any spec; and each spec can be optimal based on the group setup.

When did you last check sorc or cabba utility, lol?

Light and splitspec eld are both strong 8v8 specs who come close to cabba/sorc utility, even tho i would say the advantage of having a pet outperforms what elds bring.

However this threat is 0% about light and splitspec elds, it is 100% about mana and voidelds.

Nerf pet cycle and pet buffs and I’m ok with cabalists. I think the sorc is fine as is, even has the most balanced pet of Albion.