Make it possible to play full "tanker" grp in albion

Give the Minstrel Standart AOE mezz as bard/pac.

Make it him OP? no.

Or if you think its to OP. Make it possible lite you can cast this spell if you have no pet?

I mean bard/Pac will be a LOT more Stronger as minstrel.

Lets try?

Mon 24 May 2021 7:16 AM by byron

Mate, the alb tank group (with sorc and theug) is already the strongest one.

Mon 24 May 2021 8:16 AM by Centenario

byron wrote: Mate, the alb tank group (with sorc and theug) is already the strongest one.

I highly doubt it, nobody plays it.
A tank group means at least 4 melee:

Minst+Sorc+Theurg+Cleric+Friar + 4 melee (Merc,Merc,Arms,Pala?)
only 2 healers and no NS
A hib tanker group includes 4 healers and can have disease from valewalker, insta mezz, quadruple instant amnesia
A mid tanker group includes at least NS, they have disease too, 3 healers

Mon 24 May 2021 9:00 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 24 May 2021 8:16 AM
I highly doubt it, nobody plays it.

You're wrong.

I'm not going to bother wasting time telling you why, because you won't listen and never do, but you are.

Mon 24 May 2021 9:08 AM by keen

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 24 May 2021 8:16 AM
byron wrote: Mate, the alb tank group (with sorc and theug) is already the strongest one.
I highly doubt it, nobody plays it.
A tank group means at least 4 melee:

Minst+Sorc+Theurg+Cleric+Friar + 4 melee (Merc,Merc,Arms,Pala?)

Well maybe noone runs that group setup since it's impossible?

Mon 24 May 2021 9:55 AM by byron

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 24 May 2021 8:16 AM
byron wrote: Mate, the alb tank group (with sorc and theug) is already the strongest one.
I highly doubt it, nobody plays it.

Unluckly (for me) it is played

Mon 24 May 2021 11:36 AM by Irkeno

Troll post. Surely

If there is 1 setup due a nerf its alb tanker 😂

Mon 24 May 2021 11:51 AM by Adwaenyth

Ah, all for it. Along with removing flute mez for a normal single target cast mez, pet charm since neither bard nor pac have that. Change inst stun to 10 min cooldown...

Mon 24 May 2021 3:38 PM by Egonek

I think you GUYS dont understand...

FULL TANKER!

so NO caster. no sorc no caba no theurg.

Friar/cleric 2x minstrel (like 2x BARD and i am SURE!!!! THE bards STRONGER in same setup in hib for example) +4 tanks.

- albs no disease like mids/hibs
- albs no root like mids/hibs
- no instant aoe/single mezz
- no bubble like hibs

maybe anyone can explain me why the setup in alb then is more OP as in Hib/mid..

Its still worse setup as hibs/mids because the utility from supporter in midgard/hibernia is completle totaly op.

Mon 24 May 2021 4:23 PM by gotwqqd

The game is not set up as mirrored realms

Mon 24 May 2021 9:39 PM by Noashakra

Hib tanker has usually an eld inside the comp or play with 5 ovates.
Only one bard is spec heal.

So what's the problem with one sorc and one theu in the comp?
It doesn't have to be only tanks to be a tanker group...

Even mid tanker plays with 1 bd / 1 rm or both.

Tue 25 May 2021 12:14 AM by Centenario

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 24 May 2021 9:00 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 24 May 2021 8:16 AM
I highly doubt it, nobody plays it.

You're wrong.

I'm not going to bother wasting time telling you why, because you won't listen and never do, but you are.

I listen, I accept to brainstorm; to revise my judgment.
Out of 10,000 Phoenix player how many play alb tanker (4 det melee) successfully that you claim they are OP.
Maybe the issue is that you use the mention « alb tanker » when really you mean standard alb hybrid comp:
Sorc+Minst+They+2heals+3 mix and match(cab/wiz/merc/arms/Sorc)

Tanker comp is 4 det melee in assist train, 3 healing classes, usually with disease and NS.
Only possibility on alb would be to have friar in the assist melee as a det hybrid:
Friar/arms/merc/4th
Cleric/cleric/Sorc/minst, no theu no bubble, no NS, no disease.

Mid=skald+War+savage+4th
Mid=rune+Tri-healer+augH+shaman

Hib=bm+hero+3rd+4th including vale
Hib= bard+Druid+bard/warden +eld/warden

On alb a possible tanker without theu would be:
Alb= arms/merc/merc/4th
Alb=cab/friar/Sorc/cleric (only 2heals)

Again:
Tanker is 4det melee in assist train, 3heals- disease-NS
What you are talking about it is an hybrid comp:
2-3 heals; 2-3melee;2-3casters

Wed 26 May 2021 6:57 AM by Noashakra

hib tanker was 2 druids 2 bards 1 warden for a long time, before the warden heal up.
So 3 tanks. According to your definition, it was not a tank group...

Wed 26 May 2021 7:55 AM by Astaa

I think it's fair to say that most people definition of a tank group is a group where the damage output comes from tanks. The rest is just semantics.

Wed 26 May 2021 3:14 PM by inoeth

not sure why alb tanker needs theurg bth, you could replace him with another tank or caba or 3rd healer

Wed 26 May 2021 3:24 PM by Centenario

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 26 May 2021 3:14 PM
not sure why alb tanker needs theurg bth, you could replace him with another tank or caba or 3rd healer

Yea, maybe for haste buff.
I was just replying to Byron and extrecus

Mate, the alb tank group (with sorc and theug) is already the strongest one.

@Astaa I would like alb to be able to make groups without 2-3 mandatory casters. Maybe only one like mid RM or hib eld.
Alb needs to have disease and NS, bubble and haste somewhere else

wishful

on a post Gruene talked about merging classes together: (just fancy talk, dont take it to heart)

merge minstrel and paladin => templar with speed 6, det, 2-hand and ranged interrupts.
merge theurg and friar => Monk with mezz clear, haste buff, bubble
merge cleric and wizz => freakin weatherman ^^ with ns and bolts in smite/heal spec
give disease proc to reaver :O
Also make inconnu paladin/cleric and give scout access to polearms.

Wed 26 May 2021 4:30 PM by byron

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 26 May 2021 3:24 PM
Yea, maybe for haste buff.
I was just replying to Byron and extrecus

As a "enemy" I found that Theug is a pain in the ass, he is always deep in the backline and it is almost impossibile to reach during frontal inc. Alb classes are high specialized and I see that as a plus to achieve the victory, everyone has his role and you can concentrate on it. Maybe it's more boring (like cleric that needs only to heal and theug that needs only to provide PBT and spam pets to interrupt) but for sure it is a lot more efficient than a group where a lot of classes need to do more that just one or two stuff togheter. Against Mid you kill one healer or the shamn and 90% of the time it's a win, if you kill the sorc or the theug (if are able to reach him), it is not. Then the endu potions (and the friar end reducion ability) for sure helps a lot more Albion than the other two realms, one more dps class in the group than a Paladin. I would be not so negative about the current Alb status .
But for sure everyone has his opinion

Wed 26 May 2021 6:00 PM by Nephamael

I think you GUYS dont understand...

FULL TANKER!

so NO caster. no sorc no caba no theurg.

Friar/cleric 2x minstrel (like 2x BARD and i am SURE!!!! THE bards STRONGER in same setup in hib for example) +4 tanks.

You can play this setup, it works and it is viable, but it is not easy to be played well with a pug, you need a set grp for this - however it lacks disease and ichor for chase/catch, so it relies on minstrels catching and it needs minstrels to demezz, who cast as slow as bards or healers demezzing, which is why we see so much more success if groups add a sm/menta/sorc for the fast caster demezzes + quickcast demezz.

Also it lacks pbt = your tanks can be peeled much easier.

Also it lacks the incredible utility a sorc brings to the group (aoe d/q and str/c debuff, 2300 range amnesia, boltrange mezz).

The main reason why noone plays double minstrel is not the lack of aoemezz, but the power of sorc and theurg.
If you want to see alb fulltankers sorc and theurg would have to be drastically nerfed - a bad idea imo.

- albs no disease like mids/hibs

on Phoenix only mid has reliable disease for a fulltanker - hib has a 15% procchance for a 30s disease on vw, what a joke

even if you go allin on aboreal you get a 20% chance for 30s disease and then have abyssmal parry to be easily destroyed by any tank train.

- albs no root like mids/hibs

true, but would you rly want to root anyone if you run 7 grpmembers with melee snares?

- no instant aoe/single mezz

true

- no bubble like hibs

Well yes, but mid also has to bring a rm to have pbt in a melee grp - and theurg is the pbt source all 3 realms would choose if they could.

maybe anyone can explain me why the setup in alb then is more OP as in Hib/mid..

Because of theurg/sorc mostly. - Sorc is the highest utility cc class in the game and can do significant dps - theurg is the strongest pbt class that can do significant dps.

Theurg also currently has a balancing flaw: Earthpets can not be resisted, but they have a resistrate vs enemy spells = it takes more effort to kill, than to summon them.
The earthpets also often have slightly more HP than a basenuke does dmg = even more effort to kill them - and they often take more than 1 2h/spear hit to die = even more effort to kill them vs the summoning cost.

Alb tanker has 3 main win conditions, where they outshine most or all other setups:

1) overwhelming rupt pressure (earthpets+sorc+tanks+minst and sorc pet)

2) alb has the easiest remezz wincondition with the sorcs range for both mezz and demezz (from amnesia range it is easy to stay save)

3) outlasting the enemy grp with the passive healing of their healprocs and the general studiness of the grp

Its still worse setup as hibs/mids because the utility from supporter in midgard/hibernia is completle totaly op.

No class in daoc reaches the utility of a sorc. The closest to it is the healer, but he lacks castspeed and quickcast to come even with sorc.

Druid is almost as low in utility as cleric. Bard and minst, while being slightly different in their role are both very strong ruptmachines and very comparable in power for a melee group.

Having all the utility on a few classes like alb/mid holds the advantage that you only need 2-3 exceptional players to make a group work well, while the spread utility in hib makes it so you need decent to good players on almost every role (probably the main reason, why alb and mid have a lot better 8man pug scene than hib).

It also holds the disadvantage that you are not very flexible in building lineups.

- All that said i would be ok with the minstrel aoemezz going down to 3.0 casttime at the current duration, so it is a viable play with a upside (landing cc that lasts 30s-resist = enough for a play vs enemy suporters/casters) and a downside (= being shorter than main CC mezz and being something you don't rly want to land on det tanks) same as eld or sm mezz.

However regarding the powerlevel of alb tanker theurg sorc i think it should be probably looked at earthpets in the same patch.
My suggestion here is: at least -10% earthpet HP and resistrate vs spells to 0%.

Thu 27 May 2021 6:02 AM by Sepplord

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 26 May 2021 6:00 PM
Having all the utility on a few classes like alb/mid holds the advantage that you only need 2-3 exceptional players to make a group work well, while the spread utility in hib

Uhhh...what?
Hib being disadvantaged because of spread utility?

Thu 27 May 2021 8:13 PM by Nephamael

Uhhh...what?
Hib being disadvantaged because of spread utility?

It's not a disadvantage for a set 8man, but it is for pugging. Try to find a pug in alb or mid and compare it to hib you'll agree with me in no time

Doesn't mean i would want to change it tho - it just isn't easy to take a mediocre player into a hib pug and get away with it.

If you have 2 good healers and a good shaman you can get away with almost anyone in a mid tanker

The more binary the playstyle the easier to get away with not so great players on some roles. - The one lineup hib has to offer for this the fulltanker 2 bards fails to fulfill the promise as the 2 bards have to be coordinating a ton to not break each others mezzes with inst amnesia and sos at the same time and being able to demezz while maintaining pressure.