Why you nerf theurgist again? Please Change the Attack speed back!

You nerf the Earth pets completle...

now you nerf the wind pets

Latest Patch Notes (April 30th):
- theurgist air pets now attack slightly faster, this does not affect the stun rate

= Faster hit = lower dmg = more reprocs = nerf!

Video 120% Power for pets and no kill..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br5RaS2znUQ

Wed 5 May 2021 8:11 PM by Noashakra

faster hit = more stuns = more cc on ennemies to help you kite = win.

Wed 5 May 2021 8:36 PM by keen

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 8:11 PM
faster hit = more stuns = more cc on ennemies to help you kite = win.

- theurgist air pets now attack slightly faster, this does not affect the stun rate

Wed 5 May 2021 8:44 PM by Noashakra

keen wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 8:36 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 8:11 PM
faster hit = more stuns = more cc on ennemies to help you kite = win.
- theurgist air pets now attack slightly faster, this does not affect the stun rate

stun rate = % stun per hit if I am not wrong
if it's the rate of stun per hit, it's a buff.
If it's the rate of stun per minute, it's might be a nerf.

Wed 5 May 2021 9:02 PM by Nephamael

You nerf the Earth pets completle...

now you nerf the wind pets

Latest Patch Notes (April 30th):
- theurgist air pets now attack slightly faster, this does not affect the stun rate

= Faster hit = lower dmg = more reprocs = nerf!

Video 120% Power for pets and no kill..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br5RaS2znUQ

I asked for it time and again, while i think air pets should do no real dmg, i think their stunrate or movement speed need to be higher (and +5 sec duration wouldnt hurt either).

Now the way i understand the patch it is a buff to the stunrate because the pets hit more often, is that right @Gruenesschaf/Uthred?

If that is the case it is a first step in the right direction and we can see if it is enough or needs more.
-

I didn't have the chance to play vs airpets yet after this patch, but before they were the biggest joke in the game, basically free CC immunity, while not doing anything at all, no dmg no stun and outsprintable.

- Your video is sadly not showing much, it would have been more interesting to cast only 1 airpet and see the stunrate. - You are supposed to use your DD to kill someone, if you are an air theurg - if you are splitspec you can use base DD or earthpets.

Wed 5 May 2021 9:06 PM by

gruenesschaf

It's neither a buff nor a nerf, it's literally just an attack speed adjustment to match logs. The stunrate is not affected as it's not a melee proc and hence unrelated to the attack speed.

Wed 5 May 2021 9:08 PM by gotwqqd

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:06 PM
It's neither a buff nor a nerf, it's literally just an attack speed adjustment to match logs. The stunrate is not affected as it's not a melee proc and hence unrelated to the attack speed.

So proc chance per hit remains same...and can be viewed as a buff as you have chances of stun increases do to attack speed increase.

Wed 5 May 2021 9:10 PM by

gruenesschaf

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:08 PM
So proc chance per hit remains same...and can be viewed as a buff as you have chances of stun increases do to attack speed increase.

The instant stun of the air pet, some druid pets and sm pets have nothing at all to do with hitting anything. It's instant casts with a cast range, in case of theurgist it's 1250, and whenever the thing has a target and is in range, it does a chance check multiple times per second to stun the target. You can see these spells in the charplan.

Wed 5 May 2021 9:14 PM by gotwqqd

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:10 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:08 PM
So proc chance per hit remains same...and can be viewed as a buff as you have chances of stun increases do to attack speed increase.

The instant stun of the air pet, some druid pets and sm pets have nothing at all to do with hitting anything. It's instant casts with a cast range, in case of theurgist it's 1250, and whenever the thing has a target it and is in range it does a chance check multiple times per second to stun the target. You can see these spells in the charplan.

Thanks for clarification. I was under assumption it was tied to a cast attack.

Wed 5 May 2021 9:16 PM by Nephamael

The instant stun of the air pet, some druid pets and sm pets have nothing at all to do with hitting anything. It's instant casts with a cast range, in case of theurgist it's 1250, and whenever the thing has a target it and is in range it does a chance check multiple times per second to stun the target. You can see these spells in the charplan.

Thanks for the clarification.

So any plans to up the stunrate or movement speed or duration for the air pets?
Right now there is not rly any reason why anyone would use those, as you need at least 6-7 airpets to have the same impact 1 earthlord has.

Thu 6 May 2021 12:01 AM by easytoremember

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:16 PM
The instant stun of the air pet, some druid pets and sm pets have nothing at all to do with hitting anything. It's instant casts with a cast range, in case of theurgist it's 1250, and whenever the thing has a target it and is in range it does a chance check multiple times per second to stun the target. You can see these spells in the charplan.

Thanks for the clarification.

So any plans to up the stunrate or movement speed or duration for the air pets?
Right now there is not rly any reason why anyone would use those, as you need at least 6-7 airpets to have the same impact 1 earthlord has.

Their purpose is not dps though.
Forget about 8v8 for moment as the big boast of air pets is hard rupts and accel cancel, such as when an enemy is standing near a postern door with the expectation of retreating only to be hampered long enough to be bludgeoned to death. Their other big point is to buy time for squeezing out air nukes especially against a target trying to close in on the caster. By running towards the theurgist the slow speed of the pets increases the amount of time they remain within stun range. If the pets were able to catch or keep up with fleeing targets they would be too strong due to their being spammable.

Thu 6 May 2021 9:24 PM by Nephamael

Their purpose is not dps though.
Forget about 8v8 for moment as the big boast of air pets is hard rupts and accel cancel, such as when an enemy is standing near a postern door with the expectation of retreating only to be hampered long enough to be bludgeoned to death. Their other big point is to buy time for squeezing out air nukes especially against a target trying to close in on the caster. By running towards the theurgist the slow speed of the pets increases the amount of time they remain within stun range. If the pets were able to catch or keep up with fleeing targets they would be too strong due to their being spammable.

I tested solo theurg with different specs myself, among them 45 air - and it is so weak its worth a /monty.

Solo earth theurg does a lot better against any opponent.

I also played my fair share outside 8v8 against theurgs and i can only repeat myself: airpets are a joke.

Ego showed it well, you can't kill anyone with airpets, even if you use your entire manabar

they only last 20s, so if you cast from range they maybe hit 3 times on target if the target holds still and if not once.

I agree tho, they should do no significant dmg, but they should be a lot more annoying than they are. Either stun more often, be faster or last longer.

Fri 7 May 2021 1:28 AM by Neso

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:10 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 9:08 PM
So proc chance per hit remains same...and can be viewed as a buff as you have chances of stun increases do to attack speed increase.

The instant stun of the air pet, some druid pets and sm pets have nothing at all to do with hitting anything. It's instant casts with a cast range, in case of theurgist it's 1250, and whenever the thing has a target and is in range, it does a chance check multiple times per second to stun the target. You can see these spells in the charplan.

Was the air pets 1250 range stun fixed then?
I remember you saying that due to the way pathfinding works on freeshards, it won't work until it's in about 200 range.

Fri 7 May 2021 1:33 AM by

gruenesschaf

Neso wrote: ↑
Fri 7 May 2021 1:28 AM
Was the air pets 1250 range stun fixed then?
I remember you saying that due to the way pathfinding works on freeshards, it won't work until it's in about 200 range.

I don't think I ever said that

Fri 7 May 2021 1:40 AM by Neso

gruenes_schaf — 15/07/2018
in testing it works 100% fine, on the actual server with path finding enabled and the target not being set until the pet is in about 200 range it won't work until it's in about 200 range

Fri 7 May 2021 2:59 AM by

gruenesschaf

Neso wrote: ↑
Fri 7 May 2021 1:40 AM
gruenes_schaf — 15/07/2018
in testing it works 100% fine, on the actual server with path finding enabled and the target not being set until the pet is in about 200 range it won't work until it's in about 200 range

Just looked through the code changes, there actually was a related fix on that date that was also mentioned in the patch notes of the day.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 15 Jul 2018 4:28 PM
...
- Air pet stun fix
...

Before that change we relied on the target as it's sent to the client but with that change it became independent from that.

Notifying the client of the npc target causes the npc to enter attack state on the client (aka draw the weapon, which is always desired) and enables the client side simplistic auto following behavior which entirely ignores any further path finding targets, which is not desired and hence we set it as late as possible.

Wed 26 May 2021 6:12 PM by Nephamael

After collecting some more experience i have to say the wind pets rly need a helping hand.

My suggestion: upp the stunprocrate from 25% to 35% and then monitor the power of the pets.

From my 8v8 experience it needed 3+ pets and a massive movement contribution by the chased caster (straving/facing) to get free from a tank.