Defender & Invader Capping Vote

The second vote for the rvr reset event. Something that was brought up quite a bit is the potential for certain people to snowball heavily in the event.

In general we want this to be a progression event, that is why daily resets of everyone to a particular RR won't be an option. However, to give the option to prevent excessive snowballing we will now have a vote to have it either uncapped or capped. Uncapped would mean completely normal RR progression.

Capped would mean to have the following mechanic active:
The event starts with an RR cap of 2L0, once 100 characters (regardless of realm) reach this cap it will be increased to 3L0, once 100 characters reach the new cap it increases to 4L0 etc. Only the realm rank (and consequently available realm ability points) will be capped. Even if you reached the cap, you will still earn the realm points for both the event RR as well as your normal RR, once the cap is increased you will automatically advance according to your rp and the new cap after earning 1 more realm point or relogging.

Example:
Cap is 2L0 (7125 RP)
You earn 7125 RP, you are now 2L0.
You earn a total of 94875 RP (3L3), you still are 2L0 and consequently only have 10 realm ability points available
100 characters reached the 2L0 cap, the cap is now increased to 3L0 (61750 RP)
You earn 1 more realm point or relog: you are now advanced to 3L0
You earn another 50k RP (144875 total, 3L6), you are still 3L0
100 characters reached the 3L0 cap, the cap is now increased to 4L0 (213875RP)
You earn 1 more realm point or relog: you are now advanced to 3L6

Wed 28 Apr 2021 8:05 PM by Centenario

How about reducing realm switch timer?
If we see that mid is fully green/red, we might wanna go help them.
Maybe 1 hour timer should be enough instead of 4hour.

Also right after the level playing field event, people might want to jump around their new characters on different realms. Making it easier is advisable.

With regards to the RRcap:
If people play one evening a healer, next evening a caster, and then a speed class, to end on a peeler.

They’ll never reach much of the cap, and restart every time at rr1. That is why capping should be good, but also raising the starting RR over time too. So people who start play on Day 5 will already have at least 3hrs*4days*10k rp so 120k rp the equivalent of 3L5 seems fair

Wed 28 Apr 2021 8:12 PM by Ceen

I want to start on each char RR1 since let's be honest I'm here for the RP/h :p

Wed 28 Apr 2021 9:23 PM by joy

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 28 Apr 2021 6:43 PM
The second vote for the rvr reset event. Something that was brought up quite a bit is the potential for certain people to snowball heavily in the event.

In general we want this to be a progression event, that is why daily resets of everyone to a particular RR won't be an option. However, to give the option to prevent excessive snowballing we will now have a vote to have it either uncapped or capped. Uncapped would mean completely normal RR progression.

Capped would mean to have the following mechanic active:
The event starts with an RR cap of 2L0, once 100 characters (regardless of realm) reach this cap it will be increased to 3L0, once 100 characters reach the new cap it increases to 4L0 etc. Only the realm rank (and consequently available realm ability points) will be capped. Even if you reached the cap, you will still earn the realm points for both the event RR as well as your normal RR, once the cap is increased you will automatically advance according to your rp and the new cap after earning 1 more realm point or relogging.

Example:
Cap is 2L0 (7125 RP)
You earn 7125 RP, you are now 2L0.
You earn a total of 94875 RP (3L3), you still are 2L0 and consequently only have 10 realm ability points available
100 characters reached the 2L0 cap, the cap is now increased to 3L0 (61750 RP)
You earn 1 more realm point or relog: you are now advanced to 3L0
You earn another 50k RP (144875 total, 3L6), you are still 3L0
100 characters reached the 3L0 cap, the cap is now increased to 4L0 (213875RP)
You earn 1 more realm point or relog: you are now advanced to 3L6

Great, so instead of having the snowballers work for stuff, and get set back to the rest,
you are suggesting to give them a permanent ra point advantage of up to 10 points!

Imagine what impact that would have for a 3x ichor ani group with red mez, vs groups that don't even have det9!

Wed 28 Apr 2021 10:08 PM by Irkeno

joy wrote: ↑
Wed 28 Apr 2021 9:23 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 28 Apr 2021 6:43 PM
The second vote for the rvr reset event. Something that was brought up quite a bit is the potential for certain people to snowball heavily in the event.

In general we want this to be a progression event, that is why daily resets of everyone to a particular RR won't be an option. However, to give the option to prevent excessive snowballing we will now have a vote to have it either uncapped or capped. Uncapped would mean completely normal RR progression.

Capped would mean to have the following mechanic active:
The event starts with an RR cap of 2L0, once 100 characters (regardless of realm) reach this cap it will be increased to 3L0, once 100 characters reach the new cap it increases to 4L0 etc. Only the realm rank (and consequently available realm ability points) will be capped. Even if you reached the cap, you will still earn the realm points for both the event RR as well as your normal RR, once the cap is increased you will automatically advance according to your rp and the new cap after earning 1 more realm point or relogging.

Example:
Cap is 2L0 (7125 RP)
You earn 7125 RP, you are now 2L0.
You earn a total of 94875 RP (3L3), you still are 2L0 and consequently only have 10 realm ability points available
100 characters reached the 2L0 cap, the cap is now increased to 3L0 (61750 RP)
You earn 1 more realm point or relog: you are now advanced to 3L0
You earn another 50k RP (144875 total, 3L6), you are still 3L0
100 characters reached the 3L0 cap, the cap is now increased to 4L0 (213875RP)
You earn 1 more realm point or relog: you are now advanced to 3L6
Great, so instead of having the snowballers work for stuff, and get set back to the rest,
you are suggesting to give them a permanent ra point advantage of up to 10 points!

Imagine what impact that would have for a 3x ichor ani group with red mez, vs groups that don't even have det9!

Theyre suggesting holding them back in the best way they can.

I do think it will mean people slingshot up from rr2 to rR3 for example but better than having them storm off wildly in to the lead on day 1

Thu 29 Apr 2021 5:58 AM by Sepplord

Irkeno wrote: ↑
Wed 28 Apr 2021 10:08 PM
Theyre suggesting holding them back in the best way they can.

What do you mean "the best they can"?
They could have lower limits, more people required, a fixed cap, etc...

They made a suggestion in a way they seem fit, and that's fine. No need to sugarcoat that as if it is the only way possible, or the best that could be done anyways

Imo it is definitely better than having no cap at all, and the deciding factor if it works well or not is the 100people.
I don't know the server numbers anywhere close to the people running it, and it is hard to gauge if that number is too big or too low.
Its worth a try

Thu 29 Apr 2021 7:34 AM by ExcretusMaximus

100 is way too low IMO, especially since it doesn't shut off gaining RP, just temporarily stops them from counting.

Thu 29 Apr 2021 10:13 AM by lurker

Feel like this wont really stop the spiralling.
Likely that there will be 100 who gain fast and those caps will just be hit very quickly. But we will see.

Just put 24 hours or so between cap raises maybe.

Thu 29 Apr 2021 10:23 AM by DJ2000

Why make it so complicated? Just raise the cap every 24h with the Server reset
Day1 1L1
Day2 2L0
Day3 3L0
Day4 4L0
Day5 5L0
Day6 5L0
Day7 5L0

Thu 29 Apr 2021 10:49 AM by

gruenesschaf

The progression style / snowballing is something we absolutely want to have, it's just a part of what a reset in daoc would entail, however, it doesn't necessarily have to the most extreme form aka the uncapped style.

This kind of capping seems like it should be the most sensible to keep the essence of the progression style while still delaying / reducing the absolute extreme ends. If it turns out that a lot more people reach the caps way earlier than expected all we end up with is a still slightly softened version of the uncapped variant.
Anyways, this is the first time we run this kind of reset event, we don't know exactly what will happen and if our expectations turn out to be wrong we will adjust, either on the fly or in the next iteration if there is one. The status quo / baseline would have been no cap at all.

Thu 29 Apr 2021 3:21 PM by boho

Love the spirit of the idea. There are a couple gotchas I see.

First, the solution doesn't scale. If you have 100 people show up grind like mad, the cap would smoothly increase to accommodate the 100 hardcore players as they snowball off into the sunset. If you can't make it dynamic (x% of actives are at current cap, cap rises), maybe the previous "tier" could need be met in the same way by another 100 unique characters for the next cap to raise?

As an example, let's say the first 100 hits R3L0. The cap will not raise unless there are 100 separate characters at R2L0 (ie 200 characters >= R2L0).

You could optionally have the requirement cascade by one or more previous caps (so for the cap to raise you would need 100 >= cap, 200 >= cap-1, 300 >= cap-2, etc). This would give you another lever to play with (population per tier and cascade depth) to figure out what you think is ideal.

Second, stored RP is kind of the worst of both worlds. Earning an IOU isn't satisfying - if anything, it's frustrating. Diminishing returns (even so far as to 1RP per gain) might be a better compromise.

Sat 1 May 2021 2:35 PM by Solong

not bad, but tbh 100 is really way to low

Sat 1 May 2021 10:15 PM by Sagz

Anyone else think, (since this event is only for 7 days) that it would be more fun to just give everyone RR12 for the 7 days? I mean if you do a scaling approach, there are people who are low RR now and are starting over, where as you give them RR12, they get all kinds of tools to play with that they may never get to use. Give them to see what they are missing after the 7 days and give them something to shoot for.

Now I know the game is 20 years old, most of us had a RR12 on live or at least RR10+, but still would be fun. (not to mention we could all see each others first and last names instead of race for 7 days...haha)

Or instead, just give everyone 22million RPs (RR12 is 23,308,097) so if someone gets 1.3 mil they get the RR12 title for the remainder of the event. You can even throw in then a cool title like King/Queen of all Kings/Queen, or I am your Lord/lady, i know those are bad, I am terrible at coming up but I couldn't leave it blank.

Sun 2 May 2021 11:58 AM by Ceen

Sagz wrote: ↑
Sat 1 May 2021 10:15 PM
Anyone else think, (since this event is only for 7 days) that it would be more fun to just give everyone RR12 for the 7 days? I mean if you do a scaling approach, there are people who are low RR now and are starting over, where as you give them RR12, they get all kinds of tools to play with that they may never get to use. Give them to see what they are missing after the 7 days and give them something to shoot for.

Now I know the game is 20 years old, most of us had a RR12 on live or at least RR10+, but still would be fun. (not to mention we could all see each others first and last names instead of race for 7 days...haha)

Or instead, just give everyone 22million RPs (RR12 is 23,308,097) so if someone gets 1.3 mil they get the RR12 title for the remainder of the event. You can even throw in then a cool title like King/Queen of all Kings/Queen, or I am your Lord/lady, i know those are bad, I am terrible at coming up but I couldn't leave it blank.

Would be fun to show everyone how much work it actually is to grind your way up at rr11+
I see all those zerglings at 5k/h getting zero progress.

Sun 2 May 2021 12:06 PM by DJ2000

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 29 Apr 2021 10:49 AM
The progression style / snowballing is something we absolutely want to have, it's just a part of what a reset in daoc would entail, however, it doesn't necessarily have to the most extreme form aka the uncapped style.

Ok, plausible.
So this is basically the RR Server Reset (/Seasons), a handful of ppl asked for, made into an Event.
Sure, why not.

Playing field - Dungeon double feathers - Defender&Invader
all back to back.

(sounds to me some more class/game changes will be announced shortly)

Tue 4 May 2021 3:48 PM by

Uthred

The voting is over, here is the result:

748 (67,5%) = Capped RR Progression
359 (32,5%) = Uncapped RR Progression

We will have a capped RR progression during the Defender & Invader event. More detailed infos will follow before the event starts. Stay tuned and thank you for voting.