Encourage more solo players to use /fairfight toggle

The list was a great idea along with the /gvg toggle, although putting smallman and solos on the same list wasn't, which completly ruined this slash command in my opinion.

Can we eventually seperate solos and 3-4 mans to their own slash command?

Might encourage solos to roam less trafficed areas, so that they know which zone to find eachother in, just a thought?

Mon 26 Apr 2021 4:50 PM by

Uthred

When using /fairfight, you will only see groupsizes +/-1 to yours. So only duos can see if any solos are listed. Thats why I dont think that any new command is needed.

Mon 26 Apr 2021 5:04 PM by Nephamael

When using /fairfight, you will only see groupsizes +/-1 to yours. So only duos can see if any solos are listed. Thats why I dont think that any new command is needed.

I agree, i just think /fair toggle /fair list needs some benefits like /gvg toggle, to motivate people to join the list.

Or a precise loaction display, appropriate for solos, to find each other in any zone without any speed, at the same speed a gvg grp with speed6 can find another gvg grp within a zone.

However i think duos should see trios and 4men but not solos. And all smallmen should see all other smallmen or at least +/-2 grpsize, but probably better even +/-3.

(A bold trio will gladly fight a mediocre 6man before trying a 3v8.)

- While i think seeing all listed smallmen as a smally will have a lot of positive effects (Oh look a 5man is out, lets group 2 more guys and do 5v5, etc) - i personally think it will still need /gvg cleanfight benefits to encourage people to make a macro or type /fair toggle /fair list every day.

Tue 27 Apr 2021 3:36 PM by Rov

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 26 Apr 2021 4:50 PM
When using /fairfight, you will only see groupsizes +/-1 to yours. So only duos can see if any solos are listed. Thats why I dont think that any new command is needed.

Unfortunate it is not being used really though

Tue 27 Apr 2021 3:36 PM by Rov

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Mon 26 Apr 2021 5:04 PM
When using /fairfight, you will only see groupsizes +/-1 to yours. So only duos can see if any solos are listed. Thats why I dont think that any new command is needed.

I agree, i just think /fair toggle /fair list needs some benefits like /gvg toggle, to motivate people to join the list.

Or a precise loaction display, appropriate for solos, to find each other in any zone without any speed, at the same speed a gvg grp with speed6 can find another gvg grp within a zone.

However i think duos should see trios and 4men but not solos. And all smallmen should see all other smallmen or at least +/-2 grpsize, but probably better even +/-3.

(A bold trio will gladly fight a mediocre 6man before trying a 3v8.)

- While i think seeing all listed smallmen as a smally will have a lot of positive effects (Oh look a 5man is out, lets group 2 more guys and do 5v5, etc) - i personally think it will still need /gvg cleanfight benefits to encourage people to make a macro or type /fair toggle /fair list every day.

Agree.

a duo can compete with 3-4 man groups, a solo can't really do the same vs. a duo. Unless you play some OP solo class or are up against some really bad players.

Tue 27 Apr 2021 4:49 PM by

Uthred

Rov wrote: ↑
Tue 27 Apr 2021 3:36 PM
Agree.

a duo can compete with 3-4 man groups, a solo can't really do the same vs. a duo. Unless you play some OP solo class or are up against some really bad players.

Not sure but somehow I dont get the point.

It is called /fairfight, so id assume that people who are looking for fairfights would use this mainly. So why would a duo that is seriously looking for fairfights, killing a solo who is also looking for fairfights? Wouldnt it rather be a help for fairfight-solos to not get ganked by other fairfight duos? At least it is that what Id expect from a fairfighter.

Tue 27 Apr 2021 4:55 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 27 Apr 2021 4:49 PM
Not sure but somehow I dont get the point.

It is called /fairfight, so id assume that people who are looking for fairfights would use this mainly. So why would a duo that is seriously looking for fairfights, killing a solo who is also looking for fairfights? Wouldnt it rather be a help for fairfight-solos to not get ganked by other fairfight duos? At least it is that what Id expect from a fairfighter.

Why do the GvG self-proclaimed "best players" run around killing everything smaller than them and then cry when they get added onto by those same people? Because they don't want a fair fight, they want easy RPs.

Tue 27 Apr 2021 5:02 PM by Rov

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 27 Apr 2021 4:49 PM
Rov wrote: ↑
Tue 27 Apr 2021 3:36 PM
Agree.

a duo can compete with 3-4 man groups, a solo can't really do the same vs. a duo. Unless you play some OP solo class or are up against some really bad players.

Not sure but somehow I dont get the point.

It is called /fairfight, so id assume that people who are looking for fairfights would use this mainly. So why would a duo that is seriously looking for fairfights, killing a solo who is also looking for fairfights? Wouldnt it rather be a help for fairfight-solos to not get ganked by other fairfight duos? At least it is that what Id expect from a fairfighter.

Fair fight isn't really a 2v1 though is it

? When this was added to the server alot tried it, and duos were abusing it hard to find and gank solos. So people got fed up and stopped using the command.

Tue 27 Apr 2021 6:15 PM by joshisanonymous

I suspect that duos being able to see listed solos is not at all the issue since you never, ever see duos listed either. I used to use /fairfight at all times when solo and only ever saw other solos listed, but they were few and far between.

In my case, I stopped using it because I'm a visible solo whereas most other solos are stealthers, meaning that even if I see them on the list, they can find me but I still can't find them, which further means that I'm just inviting them to get a PA or crit shot off on me.

I doubt that's the reason others don't use it, though. The most likely reason I can see for the lack of use among solos is that there's no additional reward for using it. That's not an argument for adding an additional reward; I really don't like that idea for /fairfight nor for /gvg; but it's probably what's going on.

Wed 28 Apr 2021 5:30 PM by Nephamael

Not sure but somehow I dont get the point.

It is called /fairfight, so id assume that people who are looking for fairfights would use this mainly. So why would a duo that is seriously looking for fairfights, killing a solo who is also looking for fairfights? Wouldnt it rather be a help for fairfight-solos to not get ganked by other fairfight duos? At least it is that what Id expect from a fairfighter.

Oof that is a very utopian point of view

The way the playerbase imo interpreted the command is: it shows you potential fair fights for your grpsize = the message delivered to duos is a 2v1 is a fairfight, because we can see the solos on the list, same as a 2v2 or a 2v3 is a fairfight for us as a duo.

-
So as i mentioned it before, it would be much better to change it to solos only seeing solos

and smallmen at: grpsize 2-7 seeing every other smallmen that is listed. - Or maybe +/-3, but i personally think the benefits of seeing every other smallmen outweigh the potential harm of a 6man seeing a duo on the list - after all a 2v6 is still more likely to go well than a 2v8 - and you get encouraged to group a few more and maybe try a 4 or 5v6 you can more realistically win.

That brings up another question: how big or small must a grp be to be allowed into /fair toggle /fair list or /gvg toggle - i personally think capping smallmen at 6 and allowing 7man to already list for /gvg might be the best here, as 7men are often 8men who are waiting for 1 guy to log on or come back after an ld, etc.

This would also help pugs to cash in the /gvg cleanfight reward after they lost a gvg and 1 guy rageplugged

Wed 28 Apr 2021 7:01 PM by Magesty

I will never use the /fairfight command as a soloer because I think it encourages two things that are extremely toxic to the overall health of the server:

1) Separation of solo players from the rest of the population
2) Bowtown mentality

Isolating play styles and creating "in group" vs "out group" situations that disrupt the natural flow of the frontier is detrimental for newer/lower quality players as well as the long term health of the server.

I know it is hard to be lamer than a Half Ogre Merc sitting on a horse around a ton of enemies refusing to engage in combat, but opponents who emote and refuse to fight back when attacked might just take the cake. Both of these things are a direct result of the bowtown mentality.

Obviously this system is ripe for abuse if duos can see soloers. Assuming X is number of players listed in a given group it should be if X>1 then the group size that shows ranges from X to X+2 and if X=1 then it only shows other X=1 players. Outside of removing the command entirely it seems like fixing it to function this way if it doesn't would be the right decision.