Alb strength - Phoenix Freeshard

Good Morning!

First I'd like to say that I enjoyed that ToA inputs. Although you guys ultimately removed them, I think some tweaking would be beneficial. Like PBAE silence on clerics and druids. Zo on support classes. Traitors proc on support classes, classes like warden friar, etc.

Moving onto the topic. Albion.

I believe mid and hib need minor adjustments (ala hib needs pets, chanters need some reason to be played), but ultimately in a good spot. I think some of the recent changes, ala wardens getting greaters is a bit much considering druids, mentalists, wardens and bards can heal and they're all staples to the group. I think giving shamans cure NS is a bit much because both meta healer specs are 40+ mending. I think BD pets need a con buff.

Albs... let's talk about albs. The thought process of add'l buffs on certain classes was not completely thought through.

Example: You give friars endu dampening, this inadvertently nerfs the paladin. Why would I run a paladin when I can run a friar with that buff, plus an armsment that can anytime snare?

You give mercs back snare in their DW line that they already raise to 50. So what you did is basically said you want zero counterplay to getting caught. One simply does not not get caught in a fight, question is, once caught, should there not be any counterplay?

On top of all of this, you give custom inadvertent buffs to the theurgist. A theurg legit doesnt' have to do a damn thing in a fight for the first minute, but once the double merc, arms, minstrel and sorc gain control, a theurg is able to chuck an obscene amount of pets down range with little to no risk. one thing that I keep reading from the GM's is that the theurg runs out of power after 8 pets. This is not true because of how the power mechanic works. moderate EB, no acu, no + power = a pet costing 5-7% power based on EB level

These pets run at speed 7, and have a chance to resist a spell. So the theurg can cast a pet, that runs on speed SEVEN, on someone with 100%, that is root, snare, disease, mezz immune, but the counterplay has a chance to resist? Earth pet resists and now I need to melee it down?

With the current setup:

Mercx2, arms, theurg, sorc, cleric, friar: Defensive and offensieve heal proc, 10.0 melee dps (BASELINE) and haste, endu dampening, red con pet, yellow con pet, zerg of pets, range...

what is the ounterplay to this?

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Suggestion:

remove friar buffs (endo dapeninging, heal proc)
remove backsnare from merc
remove cabalist pet cycle for power back, or at least make it so the cablsit doesn't gain more than the cost of the pet
lessen the pet buffs on the cabalist
cap mini pet to oj
make theurg pets cost more
move DA/haste out of baseline and into a specline
make theurg pets casted range to 1500
remove warden greater
remove shaman cure ns
raise hp on bd pets

At the rate it's going, fighting albs is 95% PvE. For all of you that say theurgs have been this way since 2001. Sure. But ToA gave tools to combat theurgs. Old RAs that were even removed from live, like sever the tether, combated theurgs.

These changes made alb far more easy and forgiving to play at the competitive level and made, particularly hib, very unforgiving of mistakes.

It's very disheartening to continue to lose winning fights because a single theurg halted any sort of push/nulified any caster dps/consistently causes casters to clear pets for the duration of the fight.

Sun 18 Apr 2021 7:54 AM by Astaa

Semi-permanent snares are BS in any setting. Fighting a snaring scout is incredibly irritating and there is very little you can do about it.

But that's where we are.

I think heavy tanks need something more, cowering bellow would be good, perhaps some sort of AOE style for pet clearance (I think I remember one being added to shield line at some point on live)

Edit: https://camelot.allakhazam.com/db/wstyles.html?cwstyle=97

Sun 18 Apr 2021 12:13 PM by Beeblebrox

omicidi wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Apr 2021 7:46 AM
Good Morning!

First I'd like to say that I enjoyed that ToA inputs. Although you guys ultimately removed them, I think some tweaking would be beneficial. Like PBAE silence on clerics and druids. Zo on support classes. Traitors proc on support classes, classes like warden friar, etc.

Moving onto the topic. Albion.

I believe mid and hib need minor adjustments (ala hib needs pets, chanters need some reason to be played), but ultimately in a good spot. I think some of the recent changes, ala wardens getting greaters is a bit much considering druids, mentalists, wardens and bards can heal and they're all staples to the group. I think giving shamans cure NS is a bit much because both meta healer specs are 40+ mending. I think BD pets need a con buff.

Albs... let's talk about albs. The thought process of add'l buffs on certain classes was not completely thought through.

Example: You give friars endu dampening, this inadvertently nerfs the paladin. Why would I run a paladin when I can run a friar with that buff, plus an armsment that can anytime snare?

You give mercs back snare in their DW line that they already raise to 50. So what you did is basically said you want zero counterplay to getting caught. One simply does not not get caught in a fight, question is, once caught, should there not be any counterplay?

On top of all of this, you give custom inadvertent buffs to the theurgist. A theurg legit doesnt' have to do a damn thing in a fight for the first minute, but once the double merc, arms, minstrel and sorc gain control, a theurg is able to chuck an obscene amount of pets down range with little to no risk. one thing that I keep reading from the GM's is that the theurg runs out of power after 8 pets. This is not true because of how the power mechanic works. moderate EB, no acu, no + power = a pet costing 5-7% power based on EB level

These pets run at speed 7, and have a chance to resist a spell. So the theurg can cast a pet, that runs on speed SEVEN, on someone with 100%, that is root, snare, disease, mezz immune, but the counterplay has a chance to resist? Earth pet resists and now I need to melee it down?

With the current setup:

Mercx2, arms, theurg, sorc, cleric, friar: Defensive and offensieve heal proc, 10.0 melee dps (BASELINE) and haste, endu dampening, red con pet, yellow con pet, zerg of pets, range...

what is the ounterplay to this?

--------

Suggestion:

remove friar buffs (endo dapeninging, heal proc)
remove backsnare from merc
remove cabalist pet cycle for power back, or at least make it so the cablsit doesn't gain more than the cost of the pet
lessen the pet buffs on the cabalist
cap mini pet to oj
make theurg pets cost more
move DA/haste out of baseline and into a specline
make theurg pets casted range to 1500
remove warden greater
remove shaman cure ns
raise hp on bd pets

At the rate it's going, fighting albs is 95% PvE. For all of you that say theurgs have been this way since 2001. Sure. But ToA gave tools to combat theurgs. Old RAs that were even removed from live, like sever the tether, combated theurgs.

These changes made alb far more easy and forgiving to play at the competitive level and made, particularly hib, very unforgiving of mistakes.

It's very disheartening to continue to lose winning fights because a single theurg halted any sort of push/nulified any caster dps/consistently causes casters to clear pets for the duration of the fight.

They didn't 'give' friars endo dampening friars always had it they made it a chant that works for the entire group. Then they nerfed it from 26% to 19%. Plus they nerfed heal proc from 15% to 10%. So those changes may have helped with balance for tank 8 mans but it's a total nerf to friar otherwise, especially solo. 19% endu reduction is not enough for it to be a nerf to pally. If there is a pally in the group, people don't even notice if the friar endu reduction is running or not as long as the pally chant is running. If there is no pally and friar endu reduction is running, everyone has to use endu pot even for sprinting. You didn't mention any of that. I was not in favor of making endu reduction a chant because I figured it could lead to a nerf. I would rather they reverse the changes they made to friar. The only change to friar I approved of was the pwr reduction and shorter cast time for their HOT. Otherwise they might as well have removed the HOT cause few used it. It took way too much manna and the cast time was extremely slow. Perhaps I was wrong but reading your post I figured you didn't know any of that history of friars. If you had known of that history, you probably would have suggested nerfing the HOT.

Sun 18 Apr 2021 2:04 PM by omicidi

Beeblebrox wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Apr 2021 12:13 PM
omicidi wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Apr 2021 7:46 AM

They didn't 'give' friars endo dampening friars always had it they made it a chant that works for the entire group. Then they nerfed it from 26% to 19%. Plus they nerfed heal proc from 15% to 10%. So those changes may have helped with balance for tank 8 mans but it's a total nerf to friar otherwise, especially solo. 19% endu reduction is not enough for it to be a nerf to pally. If there is a pally in the group, people don't even notice if the friar endu reduction is running or not as long as the pally chant is running. If there is no pally and friar endu reduction is running, everyone has to use endu pot even for sprinting. You didn't mention any of that. I was not in favor of making endu reduction a chant because I figured it could lead to a nerf. I would rather they reverse the changes they made to friar. The only change to friar I approved of was the pwr reduction and shorter cast time for their HOT. Otherwise they might as well have removed the HOT cause few used it. It took way too much manna and the cast time was extremely slow. Perhaps I was wrong but reading your post I figured you didn't know any of that history of friars. If you had known of that history, you probably would have suggested nerfing the HOT.

-So the semantics on give/change? Ok. It’s dumb and overpowered. Even with the nerf it’s still overpowered. The heal proc is the dumbest thing in the world too.

-Friars could have a lot stripped from them and still be an insane solo class. I don’t understand why anyone would think otherwise.

-if the friar and paladin were running together... that’s the thing, it happens, but quite rare. The friar has effectively benched the paladin. Why run a paladin when you have the same endurance results but can run an extra merc?

My man, you took the context of the post, twisted it and then said I don’t know the history of friars because you don’t agree with me.

I play all three realms. Right now it’s not enjoyable fighting Albs. It’s not enjoyable playing Albs. When you’re on Alb, all you’re doing to a simple slow push, allowing tanks to get control, theurg to overwhelm and then a minute or two when the other team can’t deal with 3 tanks, mini, red con pet, 75 earth pets, they just flop.

They could be winning hard. They’re human and they make a minor mistake and the next thing you know the theurg has them overwhelmed. It’s dumb.

Sun 18 Apr 2021 2:47 PM by soremir

Is this a serious post?

Sun 18 Apr 2021 8:33 PM by Beeblebrox

soremir wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Apr 2021 2:47 PM
Is this a serious post?

I don't know if it is or isn't. I just know if you don't react when people suggest nerfs they tend to happen.

Sun 18 Apr 2021 9:06 PM by ExcretusMaximus

soremir wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Apr 2021 2:47 PM
Is this a serious post?

Yep, he's been saying the same thing for months now; makes a post about it every other week or so. If it makes a difference to anyone, he's currently playing on Alb, so he's not just trying to nerf the competition, he honestly feels this would be best for the game.

Fri 23 Apr 2021 1:09 PM by Centenario

I have played alb for two years in casual 6-8man roam. In two years I have never had a theurg in my group.

If you are only talking about gvg, it concerns maybe less than 5% of players.

We sometimes run 2paladins, 2 wiz 1 cleric, 1 minst. I can tell you it’s pretty hard to kill anybody without number advantage.

Sometimes we get camped at Beno by animist bard Druid assist caster, it’s impossible to play them as alb group, if you don’t play assist body team. They just clear NS so fast you get rooted and have to wait or die.

When you play only 1 sorc and merc + memo + cleric + friar + paladin + fire wiz + reaver. Why because that’s what people wanna play tonight. Well tell me how we can stand a chance. If the group in front has SoS or insta purge mezz your sorc becomes useless, the cleric and friar are also half useless, apart from healing and dumping insta heals.

I would advocate for buffs to alb class not nerfs

Fri 23 Apr 2021 3:01 PM by keen

Centenario wrote: ↑
Fri 23 Apr 2021 1:09 PM
We sometimes run 2paladins, 2 wiz 1 cleric, 1 minst. I can tell you it’s pretty hard to kill anybody without number advantage.

Sometimes we get camped at Beno by animist bard Druid assist caster, it’s impossible to play them as alb group, if you don’t play assist body team. They just clear NS so fast you get rooted and have to wait or die.

When you play only 1 sorc and merc + memo + cleric + friar + paladin + fire wiz + reaver. Why because that’s what people wanna play tonight. Well tell me how we can stand a chance. If the group in front has SoS or insta purge mezz your sorc becomes useless, the cleric and friar are also half useless, apart from healing and dumping insta heals.

I would advocate for buffs to alb class not nerfs

If you run these setups fine for you. They are not top tier in 8v8 and it will take a lot of effort to make it work, if at all. The topic is theurgist in double merc melee grp, which gives a lot of grps a headache.
On the other hand it's a solid pug setup, so you can have pugs competing with set grps. Set grps can choose more fun setup to play, enjoy the game more and have a challenge.

Fri 23 Apr 2021 4:48 PM by Nephamael

I think the friar grp endu reduction is a major balance problem.

There are a few options to fix the imbalance:

1) give hib endu reduction, so all 3 realms have endu forever (on warden i guess) (this would maybe also lead to more hib tankers and hybrids, which people enjoy to fight a lot more than the right now only viable hib setup with 1-2 anis, relying solely on enemy grps to missplay their slowpush or get bored enough to mentally give up, to win)

or

2) remove grp endu reduction for alb, so mid is again the only realm with a endu advantage (everyone enjoys fighting vs mid grps, so why not have more of them)

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Regarding theurgs:

I think theurgs are in a problematic state, in alb castergrps they are relatively weak, so most people just don't grp theurgs anymore.
In tank grps or pushing melee hybrids they are still just as op as they have been before the 30s pet duration nerf.

Imo the best idea would be to balance theurg, so it is a useful class for both caster and tankgrps.

My suggestion: pet duration to 40s, but earthpet HP -18% and resistrate to 0% (yes theurg pets cant be resisted, but they can even resist confustion!!)

Also some classes have problems 1shotting theurg pets with a baseline nuke, which would be fixed by reducing the pet HP by 15-18%.

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Regarding the lack of fun when playing friar and warden:

I think both classes could get at least 1 ranged spell without a cooldown, like confustion, a root or a stun. Or get higher growthrates for their higher lvl styles. Or get more instant rupt, like friar taunt, at least every 10s or so.