Chapter Three – Celestius

Started 29 Mar 2021
by Uthred
in Planned Changes
We are finally ready to open our 3rd highend pve instance, which will be in Celestius. It will be a little different compared to Chapter One (DS) & Chapter Two (HoH).

What is new?
Celestius will allow you to build cross realm groups. Any instance-only changes to classes, mobs, etc which you already know from DS & HoH are also valid for Celestius. Only in Celestius the caster changes from DS/HoH for bosses will also apply to any trash, add or boss mob. Keep this in mind, when you build a setup. From what I have seen so far I would strongly advice you to take at least 2 shield tanks.

You will not follow a path through the dungeon like in DS but there will be a NPC, the Challenge Manager, where you will have to start each round before any mobs will spawn. Each round the mobs will become slightly more difficult and coming with the increasing difficulty the feather reward will increase too. A single mob will not reward you with any feathers but the completion of each round.



Each run will have 10 different difficulties, each difficulty will have a pool of different trash packs and bosses. Each boss will have a leaderboard on ist own. For now each difficulty will have 2 different trash packs or bosses but we will add more from time to time. We will start with some new or reworked trash mobs and with 7 ½ new bosses. So be warned, things may be different in Celestius than you know.

Vanity Pets
Each boss in Celestius will have a 1% chance to drop a mini pet of himself. Those mini pets wont be available via gambling but only via killing the boss.

When will Celestius open it’s doors?
On Tuesday we will do one internal test to adjust some mobs and their mechanics. If this test works out as expected, we will do a short public test to find any overseen bugs and then be finally ready to open Celestius on Wednesday.

Update#1:

Only in Celestius the caster changes from DS/HoH for bosses will also apply to any trash, add or boss mob. Keep this in mind, when you build a setup. From what I have seen so far I would strongly advice you to take at least 2 shield tanks.

Bonus XP:
You will get 1 completion per completed run (10 challenges).

Titles:
There will be new titles available at 10/25/50/100/250/500 completions of Celestius. Those will be added the next few days.

Update#2:

How to get started:
You character must have completed the quest Secrets of the old Lady to enter Celestius, which is the same quests as needed for DS and HoH. Port into the instance via Mathilda who can be found in your local capital city. Form a group of 8 inside the instance, dont forget that cross realm groups are possible. When you are ready to start the challenge, the leader of your group has to start the challenge. Dont start the challenge before your group is full and players are logged on to the needed characters.

Disbanding the group:
As soon as the group leader has started the challenge, all 8 groupmembers are bound to this instance. If one is lding or leaving for any other reason, the player can be reinvited and join the group again. If a player leaves the group permanently, you can continue but you cant replace the player with a new character who has not been in the group at start. If you want to invite a replacement into your group you have to rebuild your group and start from round 1 again.
Mon 29 Mar 2021 11:13 PM by fardorg
Two words Uthred.... MORE PAUL!!!!!!!!!! lol
Tue 30 Mar 2021 5:53 AM by Sathariel
Give her a cooler name - like celestial archon.
Tue 30 Mar 2021 6:38 AM by msitruk
Very cool pve content challenge
Tue 30 Mar 2021 6:42 AM by Zik
This is really cool, thank you, Phoenix' team!
Tue 30 Mar 2021 7:05 AM by Ceen
ML Encounters or RIOT!
Tue 30 Mar 2021 12:53 PM by Uthred
Update:

Public Test:
At 6pm (Berlin time, about 3.5h from now) we will do a short public test of the new instance. If you want to take part, wait for my ingame announcement. We will port you manually into the zone. Inside the zone you will be able to build groups, etc.

Changes:
Only in Celestius the caster changes from DS/HoH for bosses will also apply to any trash, add or boss mob. Keep this in mind, when you build a setup. From what I have seen so far I would strongly advice you to take at least 2 shield tanks.

Bonus XP:
You will get 1% bonus XP like in DS/HoH for each completion of Celestius. For now we havent finally decided if it will be after 10 rounds or 15 rounds. We will announce this as soon as we made a decision.

Titles:
There will be new titles available at 10/25/50/100/250/500 completions of Celestius. Those will be added the next few days.

I updated the first post also.
Tue 30 Mar 2021 1:07 PM by Shamissa
@Uthred bring over Valkyries !!!! We missing them
Tue 30 Mar 2021 1:39 PM by Adudich
Great work Phoenix team. Good stuff!!
Tue 30 Mar 2021 6:13 PM by MiaAngel
Thanks for all your hard work team
Wed 31 Mar 2021 11:28 AM by Talo
I really dislike cross realming in permanent content. it is fun in temporary events, but in pve dungeon #3 I really dont want to group up with the enemy. =/
Wed 31 Mar 2021 11:34 AM by Irkeno
Talo wrote:
Wed 31 Mar 2021 11:28 AM
I really dislike cross realming in permanent content. it is fun in temporary events, but in pve dungeon #3 I really dont want to group up with the enemy. =/

Well I think you’ll enjoy sticking to DS/HoH or Dragon/Dungeon raids instead then.

Thanks @GMs, excited for the new content
Wed 31 Mar 2021 12:25 PM by Uthred
Update#2

After the reboot in about 2h from now, Celestius will go live.

Bonus XP:
You will get 1 completion per completed run (10 challenges).

How to get started:
You character must have completed the quest Secrets of the old Lady to enter Celestius, which is the same quests as needed for DS and HoH. Port into the instance via Mathilda who can be found in your local capital city. Form a group of 8 inside the instance, dont forget that cross realm groups are possible. When you are ready to start the challenge, the leader of your group has to start the challenge. Dont start the challenge before your group is full and players are logged on to the needed characters.

Disbanding the group:
As soon as the group leader has started the challenge, all 8 groupmembers are bound to this instance. If one is lding or leaving for any other reason, the player can be reinvited and join the group again. If a player leaves the group permanently, you can continue but you cant replace the player with a new character who has not been in the group at start. If you want to invite a replacement into your group you have to rebuild your group and start from round 1 again.

Updated the first post.
Wed 31 Mar 2021 12:42 PM by DJ2000
Uthred wrote:
Mon 29 Mar 2021 10:36 PM
Update March, 30th:
Changes:
Only in Celestius the caster changes from DS/HoH for bosses will also apply to any trash, add or boss mob. Keep this in mind, when you build a setup. From what I have seen so far I would strongly advice you to take at least 2 shield tanks.

ooookay, i get it. PBAoE = Bad
Just as a reminder:
Uthred wrote: .
The melee damage of bosses will be quadrupled, melee damage from bosses will be reduced by 1.5% per modified shield spec of the target if the target has a shield equipped, up to a maximum of 75%.
.
Pbae damage against bosses will be reduced by 66%
.
Single target nuke damage, including pets and style procs, against bosses will be reduced by 25%, in case of player nukes the mana cost of those will be reduced by 33% as well
Shield = 50 (=42+8 for example)
Single Nuke only.
Cross Realm Energy/Spirit[/Body Debuff > Heat/Cold/Matter Debuff
Necro for Mana and AF debuff basically mandatory.

1. Main Shield Tank - Armsmen, Mercenary, Reaver, Paladin, Hero, Champ, Blademaster, Warrior, Thane
2. Secondary Shield Tank - ""
3. Support Heal/Buff - Healer(Celerity) > Cleric, Druid
4. Support Heal/Buff - Cleric, Druid > Shaman* (if a Paladin is in the Setup, then the Sham becomes useless)
5. CC/DPS Caster
6. DPS Caster - Necromancer
7. DPS Caster/Melee/Ranged
8. DPS Caster/Melee/Ranged

X: Maybe:
Scouts (as Shield)
Berserker
Savage
Bard (...would require a main Buffer, that cannot be a sham. Limited to Druid or Cleric)
Bow-Archers in General, with "Melee" Setup (no Mana issues)

XY. Useless:
Skald / Minstrel: Speed not needed, Endu is covered by Sham or Paladin, PoM is covered by pots or Healer
All Assassins
Warden, Friar, (Shaman)

Feel free to correct me

Edit:
Imho, picking anything else besides a paladin as the Main Tank seems like Bad move. Chants AF,Heal,endu+2 New instant spells are too good to miss on. Makes a Paladin basically mandatory next to the necro and the Healer (Mid).
Which would only leave the secondary shield slot to the other Shield Tanks.
Wed 31 Mar 2021 1:41 PM by Tommylad
Is the plan to make Phoenix more like WoW with more pve than RvR? Characters really suffering the nerf bat, especially archers. Thid ruined. RvR mainly just run around in a zerg and take a keep, a tower, rinse and repeat. The conditions for this Instance read like some crazy math problem. You know, If 5 people eat ten burgers each how much will the 8th person weigh the next day? Anyway, good luck with it.
Wed 31 Mar 2021 2:01 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Tommylad wrote:
Wed 31 Mar 2021 1:41 PM
Is the plan to make Phoenix more like WoW with more pve than RvR?

If anything is making it more like WoW it's all the instanced content they're slapping onto the server (LPF, Arena, PvE).
Wed 31 Mar 2021 3:04 PM by Irkeno
DJ2000 wrote:
Wed 31 Mar 2021 12:42 PM
Uthred wrote:
Mon 29 Mar 2021 10:36 PM
Update March, 30th:
Changes:
Only in Celestius the caster changes from DS/HoH for bosses will also apply to any trash, add or boss mob. Keep this in mind, when you build a setup. From what I have seen so far I would strongly advice you to take at least 2 shield tanks.

ooookay, i get it. PBAoE = Bad
Just as a reminder:
Uthred wrote: .
The melee damage of bosses will be quadrupled, melee damage from bosses will be reduced by 1.5% per modified shield spec of the target if the target has a shield equipped, up to a maximum of 75%.
.
Pbae damage against bosses will be reduced by 66%
.
Single target nuke damage, including pets and style procs, against bosses will be reduced by 25%, in case of player nukes the mana cost of those will be reduced by 33% as well
Shield = 50 (=42+8 for example)
Single Nuke only.
Cross Realm Energy/Spirit[/Body Debuff > Heat/Cold/Matter Debuff
Necro for Mana and AF debuff basically mandatory.

1. Main Shield Tank - Armsmen, Mercenary, Reaver, Paladin, Hero, Champ, Blademaster, Warrior, Thane
2. Secondary Shield Tank - ""
3. Support Heal/Buff - Healer(Celerity) > Cleric, Druid
4. Support Heal/Buff - Cleric, Druid > Shaman* (if a Paladin is in the Setup, then the Sham becomes useless)
5. CC/DPS Caster
6. DPS Caster - Necromancer
7. DPS Caster/Melee/Ranged
8. DPS Caster/Melee/Ranged

X: Maybe:
Scouts (as Shield)
Berserker
Savage
Bard (...would require a main Buffer, that cannot be a sham. Limited to Druid or Cleric)
Bow-Archers in General, with "Melee" Setup (no Mana issues)

XY. Useless:
Skald / Minstrel: Speed not needed, Endu is covered by Sham or Paladin, PoM is covered by pots or Healer
All Assassins
Warden, Friar, (Shaman)

Feel free to correct me

Edit:
Imho, picking anything else besides a paladin as the Main Tank seems like Bad move. Chants AF,Heal,endu+2 New instant spells are too good to miss on. Makes a Paladin basically mandatory next to the necro and the Healer (Mid).
Which would only leave the secondary shield slot to the other Shield Tanks.

To me that sounds like many setups will be viable.

need 2+ shield tanks, spec buffs, endu and cc and then from there you're free to vary the setup. Chanters also get mana regen buffs as well obviously not as good as necros but still good in pve.

Healer/Sham or Bard/(druid/cleric) as base + any shield tanks x2/3 = 5 spots with good variety and 3 spots flex/unclear. Knowing that each realm could absolutely do this with 8 from it's own realm, and knowing it's not mandatory to create cross realm groups, im sure you'll see plenty of variety.

Healer/Dru/Pala probably gives the most obviously strong core with 2x big heals, Buffs with haste, red endu, and extra heals(pala), CC, and shield covered already, but highly doubt it will be 'mandatory'
Wed 31 Mar 2021 3:06 PM by Beeblebrox
Talo wrote:
Wed 31 Mar 2021 11:28 AM
I really dislike cross realming in permanent content. it is fun in temporary events, but in pve dungeon #3 I really dont want to group up with the enemy. =/

Don't join or make groups with members from other realms.
Wed 31 Mar 2021 4:00 PM by DJ2000
Irkeno wrote:
Wed 31 Mar 2021 3:04 PM
To me that sounds like many setups will be viable.
I do understand where you are coming from/what you are trying to convey, but...
Unfortunately neither DS nor HoH have ever been about "viable" Setups, nor will Celestius be.

Enchanters are out.
-No Pbaoe,
-the mana proc is second rate compared to necro,
-Elemental Debuff not good enough (Heat/cold/matter)
-As a Pet class, the Pet is not comparable to other Pet classes that could take its place (BD/Theu/Ani),
-Even a Hunter with his (blue) Pet would be a better choice thanks to the AF debuff of the necro.

I highly doubt the "Meta" once established will look much different from this:
Paladin
Shield Tank
Healer
Druid
CC/DPS Caster
Necromancer
DPS Caster/Melee/Ranged
DPS Caster/Melee/Ranged
Wed 31 Mar 2021 7:24 PM by Pingyongyang
Let solos port into Celest lobby, like for event or arena. Having to group with someone from realm to just get in then disband them is unneccessary.
Thu 1 Apr 2021 7:40 AM by byron
Pingyongyang wrote:
Wed 31 Mar 2021 7:24 PM
Let solos port into Celest lobby, like for event or arena. Having to group with someone from realm to just get in then disband them is unneccessary.

Ahh so it's why yesterday I was not able to teleport
Thu 1 Apr 2021 1:28 PM by Centenario
Setup I would suggest:

(2) SHIELDTANKS:
Paladin = MT (endo + Heal + AF)
Shield Offtank = Any, even Scout

(1) MELEE - ADDTAUNTER:
Any

(1) MEZZER:
Mind Sorc (Debuff s/c - Assist Train - Debuff Healt/Cold)
or
Tri-Healer (Additional Healer/Buffer & Celerity)

(1) BATTERY:
DS NECRO (Debuff - Assist Train)

(1) SPEC BUFFER: MoArc 5+
Druid = Haste - Root
or
Cleric = Heal Proc

(2) RANGE - DPS
Runemaster Dark/Supp = Bubble - AoE - DA - NS
Wizz Earth/Fire = DA - AoE - Heat Debuff - NS
Cab Body/Spirit= Body/Spirit Debuff - Heal - Disease - NS
Archer = No Mana - takes advantage of Haste/AF debuff/Absorb Debuff
Eld = s/c debuff - disease - aoe - NS

Optimal group IMO 6 alb chars:
Paladin
Reaver
Friar
Necro
Sorc
Druid
Cab
Rune
Thu 1 Apr 2021 2:54 PM by Magesty
Allowing cross realizing will ultimately limit the amount of both players and classes that will be consistently invited to participate in “quality” groups.

Personally, I will likely rarely if ever participate in any of these PvE instances, but I’d be pretty bummed if I was someone who loved PvE as a class that will inevitably be considered lower tier due to cross realming once the meta is established.

Theoretically that Paladin and Necro slot would be different classes if cross realming was not allowed, and now those classes are likely going to have trouble finding quality groups even if they are competent players.

There is already a huge barrier to class inclusion when it comes to grouping in this game, and great steps have been taken to mitigate it in the past (when leveling actually mattered the bonus xp per unique class in a group was a brilliant idea), but this seems to be a step in the opposite direction. Perhaps this is an attempt to mitigate potential population issues during non-EU prime time going forward?
Thu 1 Apr 2021 3:24 PM by DJ2000
Centenario wrote:
Thu 1 Apr 2021 1:28 PM
Optimal group IMO 6 alb chars:
Paladin
Reaver
Friar
Necro
Sorc
Druid
Cab
Rune

1. Paladin
2. any
3. Friar -> Aug Healer
4. Necro (OP)
5. Sorc -> Earth/Air Theurgh
6. Druid
7. Cab -> Mentalist
8. Rune -> Bonedancer (Dark/Supp main+Pet nuke) or a better option would be (Supp/BA for AF Debuff + Cele for the Pets), as pet nuke is nerfed

Why Friar -> Aug Healer?
Same Base buffs, same SpecAF, +Energy/Spirit/Body Timers (Friar has the same as the Druid), +Celerity, +Grp Instants/RA; +CC, +Cure Mezz

Why Sorc -> Earth/Air Theurgh?
+haste, +DA, +Pets, +PBT, +Spec Nuke Spirit, lower AoE Mezz, same Root, - S/C debuff which can be only partially covered by the necro Lvl18 AoE

Why Cab -> Mentalist?
+50/50/50 Debuff (compared to 50/50/40), +better Heals, same NS, -Disease (not that important), +CC (stun/Mezz compared to Root), +Cure Mezz
Yes, only the Cab/Sorc would hit with Body, but its lower damage still.

Why Rune -> Bonedancer?
+More Damage Potential, +Pets, +Pet can Tank(Taunt) if needed.

I would probably forego any other debuff beside the AF one, as cele+AF debuff more effective and better sustainable as magical debuffs.
Energy/Spirit/Body is only there for the Necro mostly, but can be combined with the Theu and BD for the greatest effect. Which they also can make use of the Necro's AF debuff + Healer's Celerity and the Paladin's stacking DA buff as well with their pets. They have just good synergy.

Thats my take on it anyway, not going to judge if its better or worse than somebody else. I doubt i will be able to run it this week, i might try next week.
Thu 1 Apr 2021 7:37 PM by Nephamael
Some feedback:

We tried a full melee grp today in Celestius, made most of it work slow and safe.

Had real big problems on:

Zobrist:

I think the 2nd wave of adds has a 2 big aoe on the disease and the dps of the adds or their HP could also be looked at.
We wiped around 7 times on that 2nd wave, even after we figured out how to do it optimal mechanics wise.

The rest of the encounter is challenging but doable. (That said our group was mostly high RR, especially on key members, so tuning this encounter down a bit might be a good idea to make it possible to win at all, for lower RR groups) - It was Tier 5 and felt like it might have been fair for Tier10.

You could reduce the melee dps of the 2 brothers so make it a bit easier, as the Adds are the true challenge anyway.

Paul:

Paul punished our melee lineup extremely hard with the 1 min fumble, that does in no way compare to the nearsight vs a caster lineup.

I suggest reducing the fumble duration to 20-25 sec to make it fair between caster and melee lineups here.


-----------------------------------
Else all encounters were a lot of fun and some of them quite challenging but not impossible.

Overall the feather reward feels 2 low tho - i suggest upping it by at least 1/3rd or +50% until people have figured the encounters out well, then you can have a look at the actual farming aspect here and maybe tune it down where it needs to be tuned. Right now spending 3 hours for 11k feathers is meh. (Even in a castergroup at 1h+x its still very low feather/hour)
Fri 2 Apr 2021 7:35 AM by Zik
Thx for bringing the new instance Celestius to the community, it's really fun! Having great time with experienced and discovering players

Here is my early feedback
- It would be very handy to have a merchant to sell stuff between runs.
- Sometimes when you accept a grp invitation while you are out of Celestius and then port in, you are invisible to the team and must disband/regroup.
- It would be amazing if the challenge manager could offer 3 options : start challenge, port to DS, port to HoH. It would be so good to be able to farm DS and HoH with a cross-realm group. The ML10 area would become "the place" to build groups for any instance. It would also offer to every realm the possibility to run with more pbaoe. And it would offer the possibility to run crazy setups like 6 bowmen for instance ;-) About the leaderboards: maybe we could have only one leaderboard at all, or we could keep the current ones but when a grp is cross-realm, then it doesn't register in any leaderboard.
Fri 2 Apr 2021 4:09 PM by Komaf
DJ2000 wrote:
Thu 1 Apr 2021 3:24 PM
Centenario wrote:
Thu 1 Apr 2021 1:28 PM
Optimal group IMO 6 alb chars:
Paladin
Reaver
Friar
Necro
Sorc
Druid
Cab
Rune

1. Paladin
2. any
3. Friar -> Aug Healer
4. Necro (OP)
5. Sorc -> Earth/Air Theurgh
6. Druid
7. Cab -> Mentalist
8. Rune -> Bonedancer (Dark/Supp main+Pet nuke) or a better option would be (Supp/BA for AF Debuff + Cele for the Pets), as pet nuke is nerfed

Why Friar -> Aug Healer?
Same Base buffs, same SpecAF, +Energy/Spirit/Body Timers (Friar has the same as the Druid), +Celerity, +Grp Instants/RA; +CC, +Cure Mezz

Why Sorc -> Earth/Air Theurgh?
+haste, +DA, +Pets, +PBT, +Spec Nuke Spirit, lower AoE Mezz, same Root, - S/C debuff which can be only partially covered by the necro Lvl18 AoE

Why Cab -> Mentalist?
+50/50/50 Debuff (compared to 50/50/40), +better Heals, same NS, -Disease (not that important), +CC (stun/Mezz compared to Root), +Cure Mezz
Yes, only the Cab/Sorc would hit with Body, but its lower damage still.

Why Rune -> Bonedancer?
+More Damage Potential, +Pets, +Pet can Tank(Taunt) if needed.

I would probably forego any other debuff beside the AF one, as cele+AF debuff more effective and better sustainable as magical debuffs.
Energy/Spirit/Body is only there for the Necro mostly, but can be combined with the Theu and BD for the greatest effect. Which they also can make use of the Necro's AF debuff + Healer's Celerity and the Paladin's stacking DA buff as well with their pets. They have just good synergy.

Thats my take on it anyway, not going to judge if its better or worse than somebody else. I doubt i will be able to run it this week, i might try next week.


Misunderstanding you - You said Friar > Aug healer? And then included + celerity? What celerity other than the single and NON-group timered celerity?
Fri 2 Apr 2021 7:12 PM by Magesty
I think the -> means “and not” or “instead of” in this case.

Why class x and not class y
Why class x instead of class y
Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:51 PM by Namumira
Uthred wrote:
Mon 29 Mar 2021 10:36 PM
Titles:
There will be new titles available at 10/25/50/100/250/500 completions of Celestius. Those will be added the next few days.

It has been over two months. Is there any plan to add the titles?
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