A new chat channel - Phoenix Freeshard

It has come to my attention that on occasion; people are going off-topic in the /advice channel. Has it been considered on setting up a /general chat channel to take the off-topic conversations away from /advice?

Wed 24 Feb 2021 2:40 AM by ExcretusMaximus

There is nothing keeping people from starting an open CG, but they have said repeatedly that they will not implement a global channel because it would lead to too much spam for them to moderate.

Wed 24 Feb 2021 2:59 AM by

Razilly

Frankly, this isn't going to happen.

Wed 24 Feb 2021 8:56 PM by Morghane

Crazyleo wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Feb 2021 2:07 AM
It has come to my attention that on occasion; people are going off-topic in the /advice channel. Has it been considered on setting up a /general chat channel to take the off-topic conversations away from /advice?

It's an absolutely reasonable suggestion, and a solution for an issue that will never be solved no matter how many warnings, mutes, or suspensions are doled out.

Human beings are, by nature, sociable creatures.

If anything the amount of unnecessary time spent enforcing what is and what is not 'on topic' for these channels could be spent elsewhere. It would also allow absolute enforcement of the apparently desired purity of the trade and advice channel while simultaneously allowing players not interested in general chat to simply mute it.

The hard-line stance of "this isn't going to happen" is frankly, absurd and counter-productive.

Wed 24 Feb 2021 9:30 PM by gomashio

I think this server has some of the best moderation around, especially given it's just a small team of volunteers. Other MMOs quickly descend into chaos when given unmoderated worldchat. Please don't change anything and continue to let players form their own private/guild/alliance chat

Wed 24 Feb 2021 11:03 PM by

Beckett

If we created a realm wide channel for general offtopic chat we have a choice, we either moderate it or we dont.
If we dont moderate it then it would very quickly turn into a cesspit of bad language, flaming, politics/religion, ascii porn, rascism, homophobia, sexsism and so on.
You could of course say well people dont have to have the general chat active if they dont like it. The problem with that is that the general chat should be available to all and people should not be forced to turn it off because of the conduct of certain others misusing it. At some point we would be required to intervene which then leads to us having to moderate the channel. The fact that the general chat is for general chat would give a green light to those who think they should be allowed to say whatever they want as the restrictions on subject matter would not be as tight. So in that scenario you are making the problem worse and increasing the moderation required.

The question has been asked numerous times, the answer is always along the lines of:
No
Never
Not going to happen

This "absurd, counterproductive stance" if i can be frank, works well for us and is in the best interests of the server and players.

Thu 25 Feb 2021 12:24 PM by Morghane

Beckett wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Feb 2021 11:03 PM
If we created a realm wide channel for general offtopic chat we have a choice, we either moderate it or we dont.
If we dont moderate it then it would very quickly turn into a cesspit of bad language, flaming, politics/religion, ascii porn, rascism, homophobia, sexsism and so on.
You could of course say well people dont have to have the general chat active if they dont like it. The problem with that is that the general chat should be available to all and people should not be forced to turn it off because of the conduct of certain others misusing it. At some point we would be required to intervene which then leads to us having to moderate the channel. The fact that the general chat is for general chat would give a green light to those who think they should be allowed to say whatever they want as the restrictions on subject matter would not be as tight. So in that scenario you are making the problem worse and increasing the moderation required.

The question has been asked numerous times, the answer is always along the lines of:
No
Never
Not going to happen

This "absurd, counterproductive stance" if i can be frank, works well for us and is in the best interests of the server and players.

You don't have much faith in your player-base do you?

Maybe I'm naive, but I've met some of the most decent and pleasant people on this server that I have in 4 decades of gaming. I like to think the community would self- regulate.

Look, I get your position. I have mine, and I respect the rationale behind your collective decision. But it seems a little heavy handed at times. Someone made a comment about pizza in NF /region chat as part of a collective light hearted bit of banter and was reprimanded for not being "on-topic". Are we supposed to roleplay as Vikings/Celts/Britons ALL the time?

I like this server. A great deal. I appreciate the work that goes into it and the fact that it exists at all.

My fear is really that an over rigid stance from the team ultimately is to its detriment. There certainly are recent examples of overzealous "one way only" DAOC servers that shot themself in the foot and sank, after many years.

Dare I say it, lighten up a little at times.

In the grand scheme of things though, I'd rather have minor difference of opinion and a server that survives, so whatever keeps you guys able to carry on. I don't have to deal with your side of the coin so my perspective is naturally different.

Thu 25 Feb 2021 12:59 PM by

Uthred

Morghane wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Feb 2021 12:24 PM
You don't have much faith in your player-base do you?

Maybe I'm naive, but I've met some of the most decent and pleasant people on this server that I have in 4 decades of gaming.

Just happened 2 mins after your post in mid region.

Thu 25 Feb 2021 2:38 PM by Patron

1400 Players, 1 bad player... nice relation, but we´re daochumans and known as friendly and kind ;D

Thu 25 Feb 2021 3:01 PM by soremir

Lol, if you guys really do believe that this server is filled with wonderful, well-adjusted people, then maybe we should have an unregulated general chat channel for a week or so so that we can all stare into the abyss and see what we are really dealing with here.

Full disclosure: I love some of the people on this server, but let's not mistake the people that we talk to and engage with for what the median player on the unhinged scale is actually like here.

Thu 25 Feb 2021 3:30 PM by

Razilly

Many of you are missing the point: it's never going to happen. It's the equivalent of providing a garbage bin to the population and saying, "Go ahead and fill it with anything because we're not going to moderate it." How soon before feelings are hurt, insults are hurled, racist/sexist comments are made, etc.? How soon before it spills over into other public channels or Discord or the forum? How many will contact a GM anyway...?

Play the game, have fun and if you want to have your off-topic discussions, you can always create your own chatgroup.

Stop labouring over this. Accept it and move on.

Thu 25 Feb 2021 6:24 PM by Magesty

It is natural human failing to think that those with whom we have commonalities are somehow elevated in behavior, tact, or intelligence. We think, "certainly the tribe I identify with is mature and level-headed enough to behave, even if those other people can't." We see ourselves reflected in those that share our interests or beliefs, and lets be honest-- we are the fucking best. We'd never break the rules or do something immoral.

The sad reality is not everyone on this server are Paragons of Morality like ourselves.

I'd even argue that this game attracts one of the most depraved subsets of the gaming population that I have ever dealt with. When you're playing a popular game like League of Legends you know that if someone is acting immature or making arguments that aren't in any way cogent they are probably like twelve years old. They have no life experience and their brains haven't really developed yet. Nothing else is going on in their lives so success or failure in a game is way higher on their priority list than it should be.

On Phoenix, however, everyone you are dealing with is likely at least thirty with (theoretically) a fully developed brain. With that perspective some of the things I read on the forums and in the larger chat channels are absolutely terrifying. Statements that are barely coherent and filled to the brim with vitriol. An inability to comprehend and synthesise even the most simple of information. Pure, white hot rage stemming from a game with no ranked system and essentially no penalty from death. All of this is undergirded with the self-assuredness that comes from adulthood. I cannot even begin to fathom how ugly an unmoderated channel would become.

Fri 26 Feb 2021 12:44 AM by Catkain

I love to disagree with the GM’s (especially Uthred), but I am with them on this one. I definitely do not want a new chat channel. I already have my erotic private chats to maintain and that’s enough for me <3

Fri 26 Feb 2021 2:42 AM by boridi

If it's that important, create and maintain your own new DAOC free shard with whatever chat channels you want.

Fri 26 Feb 2021 3:02 AM by Nephamael

If we created a realm wide channel for general offtopic chat we have a choice, we either moderate it or we dont.
If we dont moderate it then it would very quickly turn into a cesspit of bad language, flaming, politics/religion, ascii porn, rascism, homophobia, sexsism and so on.
You could of course say well people dont have to have the general chat active if they dont like it. The problem with that is that the general chat should be available to all and people should not be forced to turn it off because of the conduct of certain others misusing it. At some point we would be required to intervene which then leads to us having to moderate the channel. The fact that the general chat is for general chat would give a green light to those who think they should be allowed to say whatever they want as the restrictions on subject matter would not be as tight. So in that scenario you are making the problem worse and increasing the moderation required.

The question has been asked numerous times, the answer is always along the lines of:
No
Never
Not going to happen

This "absurd, counterproductive stance" if i can be frank, works well for us and is in the best interests of the server and players.

I agree with the Phoenix team here - a general chat would be awesome, as most of the community are awesome people, but it would still require constant moderation - i doubt there are enough people around volunteering to be a general chat moderator to cover it 24/7, that's the only way it could happen.

I encourage a soft stance on moderation of offtopic /advice chat tho, especially if advice is not busy and everyone asking for real advice still get's and answer

- I think during the last few months the Phoenix team did it rly nice and only stopped it, when it got too wild and also didn't mute people immediately, so we could have some funny general chat offtopic discussions every now and then. I think that's the way to go, unless a lot of people jump forward and say "i always wanted to be a moderator of general chat"

Wed 7 Apr 2021 10:15 PM by sebbo

Whenever I read that someone mentions that this or any other freeshard has some of the best, friendliest and most adorable communities, I´m asking myself: is he on drugs?

I just need a look into the ban forum to come to the conclusion, that this server attracts a lot of retards, cheaters and other people I dont even want to read in any chat. Some people were giving their 5th (!) temporary ban for disbehaving and insulting. But yeah, the community will regulate itself, for sure...

I know these offtopic discussions, and mostly, its 3 or 4 players discussing about some stuff that nobody else needs to discuss. And I know that theres a lot of players out there who need to write 2104012 words for something that could be discussed with 100 words as well. Its not an option to just say "if anybody doesnt want to read it - he can switch off the chat". Its an option to say "create your chatgroup". If you want to discuss offtopic stuff and congratulate each other on how much experience you have in your gaming "career", while failing to rebuff your group or getting stickloss 24/7 - fine. Do it. In a chatgroup. Dont enforce other players to read it. This game is 20 years old. I play it to have fun. After work, or whenever my family grants me enough time. Im not playing it to read 2 people discussing about the correct medications and therapies for despressed people, nor for people discussing about their cars.
If you feel the need to discuss and communicate - talk to your neighbour.