25% stealther limit? - Phoenix Freeshard

so myself and a few other stealthers in the guild War Pigs were kicked, seemingly for no reason. I was told it was due to something on Discord saying that only 25% of stealther classes could log in? What?

Sat 20 Oct 2018 12:06 AM by Joc

This has to be a trollololol

Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:05 AM by Ganaka

Is this for real?

Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:45 AM by joeshmoe75

lol RIP. You can only play what you want if it suits your realm. Otherwise, go piss up a rope.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:50 AM by Varano

Now if you want to play solo you HAVE TO get rolled by 8 mans, LOL

Sat 20 Oct 2018 2:24 AM by Kwall0311

Personally i think the issue should be looked into further as to why, why is it always the albs stealth zerging you ask yourself?

There are 3 of them. And they all have 9 second stuns. There is the problem. The utility draws the masses. Take something away. You're allowed to take something away from classic and still have the classic game feel. Theres a reason changes were made to balance the stealth game in later DAoC.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 2:35 AM by florin

screw that - implement this functionality and I for one will not play even as a visible.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 3:01 AM by Waygone

This has to be an April's fool joke!
You can't actually be serious?
So much for me and my sons playing a stealth 3man team.
Absolutely the WORST idea I've EVER heard of in any DAOC platform.. Or for any mmo for what it's worth.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:04 AM by Joc

Yeah, if this was real I would be done with this server on all chars.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:26 AM by Waygone

So, I can't make a stealth character for rvr. Instead make a visible character and cant, or don't have time, to get in or form a group. Got out solo, as a visi and get assraped by an 8 man in less than a minute. See another solo or duo get the same done to them. Join up with them and grab another. We are now a 4 person group and go out to see if the 8 man has moved on. Fat chance on that! They smell fresh blood and shitcan us like a neat pack of sardines.

My point being, If there's too many stealthers playing at one time in rvr, can it be that 8 man groups are too large and not fair to small mans and solo action? I really think we should limit 8 man grouping to one per realm. Since we are policing fair play and all..
Complete and utter BS!

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:42 AM by Cadebrennus

You guys are getting trolled. Hard.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:51 AM by florin

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:42 AM
You guys are getting trolled. Hard.

possible but g_s is known to be heavy handed and over rotates on changes.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:59 AM by Waygone

I dunno. It's all over discord.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:02 AM by Cadebrennus

I logged in just fine on my Ranger to test the Mastery of Arms RA when this thread was still getting started.

FYI Rangers are stealthers lol

Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:07 AM by florin

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:02 AM
I logged in just fine on my Ranger to test the Mastery of Arms RA when this thread was still getting started.

FYI Rangers are stealthers lol

its not logging in, its being able to stealth. If you follow the discord conversation, it looks real. like I said, heavy handed and stubborn.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 7:34 AM by Druth

Considering we can have periods with 50%+ stealthers in Albion, in Frontiers, that is the situation:

1) This is Beta, and they want people to test all classes, and all 3 stealth classes are being tested in excess. They don't want to nerf stealthers, because they want to test the classes as they should be at launch.

2) Every time someone logs a stealther instead of visi, the visis left has fewer people to build groups with, and fewer people to fight smallman with. And so that visi will most likely go stealth when i50 comes.

3) You can play all the stealth you want on launch, this is for i50 Beta testing.

So what else could they do to stop Albion from being a stealther realm with i50?

And finally, I play solo visi, and I die a lot sure. But I've discouvered only my ego is hurt everytime, nothing else. And pots/charges are free, so I just go out again and believe me, there are still solo/smallman fights out there.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 7:41 AM by Cadebrennus

florin wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:07 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:02 AM
I logged in just fine on my Ranger to test the Mastery of Arms RA when this thread was still getting started.

FYI Rangers are stealthers lol

its not logging in, its being able to stealth. If you follow the discord conversation, it looks real. like I said, heavy handed and stubborn.

Well then I'm glad I'm specced only 10 stealth on my Ranger (and only for Safe Fall 1).

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:01 AM by aso

ppl play stealthers because the dont want to play 8man or zerg

visible smallman is a very bad idea on this server, because there are just a few classes you can play
and because of that, many ppl are not motivated to play smallman, because they are foced to play skald bard minst in their smallman
so even if you force yourself to roam, you will not find so many potential enemys.

and now if you kick ppl who play stealthers, you think this problem will be solved? haha please try it

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:08 AM by Druth

aso wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:01 AM
ppl play stealthers because the dont want to play 8man or zerg

visible smallman is a very bad idea on this server, because there are just a few classes you can play
and because of that, many ppl are not motivated to play smallman, because they are foced to play skald bard minst in their smallman
so even if you force yourself to roam, you will not find so many potential enemys.

and now if you kick ppl who play stealthers, you think this problem will be solved? haha please try it

How else do you make fewer play stealthers, without nerfing them individually?
Because you can not have such a large part (a small part is fine) of the population be immune to attacks from the other part unless they themselves attack.

My reaver would love to be immune to stealthers, can I get that immunity?

Lower stealth when grouped? Then what about 10 solo stealthers at amg?
Then lower stealth for stealthers in same area? Then what about solo stealthers who are just passing through an area?

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:15 AM by Druth

And it gets so old when people say: "I play this way because I don't like A B and C", "my friends play this, so I do to" etc etc...

People play what is easy and comfortable.

Strangely enough you never get a large group of DaoC players saying: "I play thane because I like the lore around it, and lightnings are cool", "I solo visibel, because of the excitement from dodging fg's and finding the solo fights".

When Warlocks/Valks came out I looked at weekly rps after a time. And Top 5 Warlocks on Guin were making 2 mio. rps/weekly, Valks did not even have enough doing RvR to fill top 25, on the second largest server in DaoC... I played Valk, because I'm a masochist.
People go ease-mode, and they always have, so stop coming up with excuses for your style.
People chose stealthers because they get rolled by fg's on solo/smallman visi, but then go Milegate and hump it dry while zerging anything that moves.
Hypocracy and cowardice is the problem, not fg's.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:24 AM by vitu

the tears in this thread are so fucking salty. <3

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:28 AM by Dominus

the stealther population problem can be solved easily without this type of hard cap. Just add a free RA to all visibles providing them 10s of stealth lore. Groups rolling through the mile gates no longer have to worry about getting added on by 16 sneaks. Just pop SL and clear out the trash. Stealther behavior WILL change and you won't have to have punish the stealthers that DONT roam in packs like War Pigs

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:31 AM by Druth

Dominus wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:28 AM
the stealther population problem can be solved easily without this type of hard cap. Just add a free RA to all visibles providing them 10s of stealth lore. Groups rolling through the mile gates no longer have to worry about getting added on by 16 sneaks. Just pop SL and clear out the trash. Stealther behavior WILL change and you won't have to have punish the stealthers that DONT roam in packs like War Pigs

That punishes them even more. 8x10s, solo stealthers would be flushed out fast as well.

I think the belief is this stealth pop is due to easy access to levels and equipment, and so Live will solve it.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:31 AM by Silentblade

remove minstrel from the game and give paladins speed and sos!

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:44 AM by Sei

is there any patchnote or official annoncement about this ?

otherwise this is a nice troll

Sat 20 Oct 2018 9:47 AM by Dominus

not yet, just a post on official discord by Gruenschaf that was referenced on the first page of this thread

Sat 20 Oct 2018 10:34 AM by Tool73

ahahahaha, and some push to hunters desneak on pet attack, so back to this other shard :-D

Sat 20 Oct 2018 10:44 AM by Bloodyface

oh i have some more good ideas for this!

New messages to be coming:

"You cannot accept the Group Invite, your Character is either not Templated,to low in realm Rank, has wrong haircut or colors on armor" xD

Sat 20 Oct 2018 10:51 AM by Hawt

This is the most BS thing I have seen in the history of DAOC So if we get to many 8mans you going to say they get inability to hit later on . YOU HAVE WENT TO FAR HERE.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 10:57 AM by Druth

If to few stealthers ever becomes a problem, I am sure they will limit groups during beta.

When pigs fly.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 12:33 PM by Ganaka

Druth wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 10:57 AM
If to few stealthers ever becomes a problem, I am sure they will limit groups during beta.

When pigs fly.

Too few Stealthers would be a dream come true.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:27 PM by Belihal

Guys but what are You talking about? How many of You log-in in these days? This server was dieing. More than half ppl logged in are stelather, they Need to fix this s**t.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:56 PM by Varano

Hmm.. wasn't there a logical solution to playing solo visi made on live?
Oh yea! Speed 5 mounts!

Sat 20 Oct 2018 2:58 PM by Jax

The solution to the stealth problem is to give an alternative to solo / small man groups other than Stealth or Speed classes. This alternative doesn't exist because of Speed 6. If you are a visible class, you must have Speed 6 otherwise your experience is dog shit because you get gobbled up by bigger forcers (8 mans or zergs).

Remove the ability for Sprint + Speed to stack.
Implement Speed 5 mounts that take a 5 second cast time and get knocked off with damage.

This will fix the stealth problem because it gives people alternatives to play. I hate the stealther class - yet I have to play it because I prefer the non-8 man or zerg play style.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 3:24 PM by Joc

Belihal wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:27 PM
Guys but what are You talking about? How many of You log-in in these days? This server was dieing. More than half ppl logged in are stelather, they Need to fix this s**t.

Its beta. People are acting like its live and there wont be a char/rp wipe. Not many want to invest time in a beta phase.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 3:28 PM by Varano

Jax wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 2:58 PM
The solution to the stealth problem is to give an alternative to solo / small man groups other than Stealth or Speed classes. This alternative doesn't exist because of Speed 6. If you are a visible class, you must have Speed 6 otherwise your experience is dog shit because you get gobbled up by bigger forcers (8 mans or zergs).

Remove the ability for Sprint + Speed to stack.
Implement Speed 5 mounts that take a 5 second cast time and get knocked off with damage.

This will fix the stealth problem because it gives people alternatives to play. I hate the stealther class - yet I have to play it because I prefer the non-8 man or zerg play style.

No you can still let speed and sprint stack, same with sprint and horses.
And make it so a debuff knocks you off horse also.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 3:29 PM by Druth

Jax wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 2:58 PM
The solution to the stealth problem is to give an alternative to solo / small man groups other than Stealth or Speed classes. This alternative doesn't exist because of Speed 6. If you are a visible class, you must have Speed 6 otherwise your experience is dog shit because you get gobbled up by bigger forcers (8 mans or zergs).

Remove the ability for Sprint + Speed to stack.
Implement Speed 5 mounts that take a 5 second cast time and get knocked off with damage.

This will fix the stealth problem because it gives people alternatives to play. I hate the stealther class - yet I have to play it because I prefer the non-8 man or zerg play style.

I don't agree with you that you must have speed 6 etc... many solo visis without are doing fine.

But I do agree that speedtokens (with long cast time and no combat) should be implemented.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:07 PM by Belihal

Joc wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 3:24 PM
Its beta. People are acting like its live and there wont be a char/rp wipe. Not many want to invest time in a beta phase.

So let every One make a stealther class and we Will see if there Will be a post beta phase. If this server stay like this (talking about pre i50 cuz i have not already logged in today) i dont think there Will be a future. Only zerg or hidden. They Need to find a solution. Hope this Will be One. tbh i would like to see a 10% stealth class limit.

Edit: tbh i dont like this sistem they choose. Forse me is Just like: how many player are there per realm? (100) ok so 10 stealther per realm Can log in the others must use another no hidden class cuz the server dont let them log in (like some old daoc portal servers)

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:44 PM by Ganaka

Belihal wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 1:27 PM
Guys but what are You talking about? How many of You log-in in these days? This server was dieing. More than half ppl logged in are stelather, they Need to fix this s**t.

We're still in beta. All progress will be wiped before they make the server live.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:48 PM by florin

All it does it sets up a precedent for the unilateral facscists like behaviour that drove away players from uthgard and will doom free shards. Case in point. This thread will be locked.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:31 PM by Ganaka

florin wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:48 PM
All it does it sets up a precedent for the unilateral facscists like behaviour that drove away players from uthgard and will doom free shards. Case in point. This thread will be locked.

Getting steamrolled by Stealthers drove more people away from Uthgard than almost anything else. That may only be 2nd to the dominance of Midgard being the overpopulated realm and no way to fight back.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:39 PM by Joc

I think the stubborn staff, refusal for common sense QOL changes, and the ridiculous time sink it took just to level drove away the most people.

Stealthers didn't ruin uthgard. The staff did.

Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:40 PM by florin

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:31 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 4:48 PM
All it does it sets up a precedent for the unilateral facscists like behaviour that drove away players from uthgard and will doom free shards. Case in point. This thread will be locked.

Getting steamrolled by Stealthers drove more people away from Uthgard than almost anything else. That may only be 2nd to the dominance of Midgard being the overpopulated realm and no way to fight back.

Everyone has a reason to hate being killed in an rvr zone. But out right population control - it’s a level of Eugenics even uthgard has avoided. Will see if that helps anything. But I predict in 2 weeks people will be crying that no one is logging in and fighting caravan guards for rps. 400-500 players on i50 launch? If it breaks 1k. I might reconsider.

Mon 22 Oct 2018 5:57 PM by oslo

And now all stealths cry !

Stealths is a gameplay for delete all Good fights and kill rvr to the server .

Some stealths ok , too much stealths is bad .

Thanks you staff

Tue 23 Oct 2018 12:51 AM by Ganaka

Joc wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:39 PM
I think the stubborn staff, refusal for common sense QOL changes, and the ridiculous time sink it took just to level drove away the most people.

Stealthers didn't ruin uthgard. The staff did.

A low RR casual getting dropped inside the time span of one stun, within eyesight of Druim Ligen, over and over and over again caused many more than a few to leave. Casuals is a dirty word to some elites around here, but casuals = targets. No targets, no server, unless all you want is a stealth war or an arena-like atmosphere.

Uthgard was the first time I tried a stealther as my main. I didn't even create an alt. I got that Scout up to level 42.5, and I even auto-trained Bow up to 40! That friggin grind was rough, going out into Snowdonia and dying repeatedly within minutes was the final straw. My composite stealth was over 50. That staff refused to lighten up and just let the server be fun.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:02 AM by Haruspex

Don't stealthers have free Mastery Of Stealth?

All they need to do to fix the situation is make it so you have to spend RA's for it like in Live and the problem will solve itself.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:16 AM by florin

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 12:51 AM
Joc wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:39 PM
I think the stubborn staff, refusal for common sense QOL changes, and the ridiculous time sink it took just to level drove away the most people.

Stealthers didn't ruin uthgard. The staff did.

A low RR casual getting dropped inside the time span of one stun, within eyesight of Druim Ligen, over and over and over again caused many more than a few to leave. Casuals is a dirty word to some elites around here, but casuals = targets. No targets, no server, unless all you want is a stealth war or an arena-like atmosphere.

Uthgard was the first time I tried a stealther as my main. I didn't even create an alt. I got that Scout up to level 42.5, and I even auto-trained Bow up to 40! That friggin grind was rough, going out into Snowdonia and dying repeatedly within minutes was the final straw. My composite stealth was over 50. That staff refused to lighten up and just let the server be fun.

Auto training 3 infs to 48 including uthg- doesn’t give me sympathy for your plight. But ya -griefjng to the point of rage quit is counter productive

Tue 23 Oct 2018 4:00 PM by Niix

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 2:24 AM
Personally i think the issue should be looked into further as to why, why is it always the albs stealth zerging you ask yourself?

There are 3 of them. And they all have 9 second stuns. There is the problem. The utility draws the masses. Take something away. You're allowed to take something away from classic and still have the classic game feel. Theres a reason changes were made to balance the stealth game in later DAoC.

It's not only that they have 9 sec stuns... but they don't have to work hard at all to achieve said 9sec stuns... insta cast... slam spam... off evade (not even in a chain)...
Alb stealther population has kind of always been an issue and I think what you mentioned here is a very good point, along with the fact 3 classes can stealth and they're all easy to play with 9sec stuns and 30 min purge it leads to their zerg having clear and large advantage.

I dunno how to fix it personally, removing minstrel stealth would shed rivers of tears but sadly I think that's the only thing that has a chance of happening.

Also think dragonfang should be second in an evade chain or lowered to 5-6 seconds like hib pierce.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 5:28 PM by Magesty

Unilateral Facism??? I think it is time to get off of Tumblr.

The way I see it there are two issues here (if this cap is in fact a real thing):

1) Butt hurt, self-centered stealthers who fail to realize that this server is a beta, and their playing experience isn't as important as overall server progress. This childish mentality has become a common sight on the boards as the beta progresses.

2) Egregious lack of communication from the dev team who dealt with the same reactions when they implemented the i50 merchants and item wipe without proper communication. Sure, they aren't "wrong", but it is a lot smarter to give the baby a paci instead of having to mop up the tears all over these forums.

Sun 28 Oct 2018 2:36 PM by Zansobar

Joc wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Oct 2018 5:39 PM
I think the stubborn staff, refusal for common sense QOL changes, and the ridiculous time sink it took just to level drove away the most people.

Stealthers didn't ruin uthgard. The staff did.

Exactly. I never heard a single complaint about stealthers on Uthgard, but I heard plenty complaints about the lack of QoL, the huge imbalance with determination classes vs non-determination classes, and the overall realm balance.

Mon 29 Oct 2018 12:54 AM by Haruspex

I am hoping that this limit will only be active during the Beta.

Any kind of 'limit' on what your playerbase can play is draconian and extremely poor game design.

Remove Free Mastery of Stealth and implement people having to spec for it. Stealthers were not designed around having free MoS and getting suitable RR so that you can have MoS and offensive/defensive RA's is part of the journey on a Stealther. They are simply too strong with Free MoS if indeed that is what they have.

Mon 29 Oct 2018 7:36 AM by

Uthred

Limit got removed yesterday and it was never intended to go live. It was just for i50. We told the players multiple times.