Stealth lore pots opinions - Phoenix Freeshard

I find myself getting perfed from other stealther that I never see and it's been happening more and more lately. I usually see them a fraction of a second before I get perfed, but now the only time I see them is when they pop and they do perf animation. Moreso it even happens when I position myself in "harder" position to perf (sideways on a dock instead of facing either end for example). I'm not saying i'm getting perfed all the time, I'm saying I'm usually not getting the first hit in as often as I used to, and if i'm in a position to be perfed easily, I usually eat it hard. All those scream stealth lore pot to me since my ping seems to be the same and nothing changed on my end in terms of internet etc.

My question is: Is stealth lore pot not frown upon anymore? Back when macro were starting it was frown upon and now it's fine by most player or so it seems (ahk). Imo I don't mind them too much, it's part of the game, it's not a cheat, but I personnaly never used it and I feel i'm getting the short end of the stick lately because of it.

So what is your opinion? Should someone use all the advantage they can and use them or are you considered a noob for using those pots?

PS: I don't mind anyone using these pots, like I stated they are part of the game, but in 1v1 stealther vs stealther the perf opening is a major part of who wins and who loses

Tue 26 Jan 2021 3:05 AM by easytoremember

It's a horrible potion I hate slightly less than prescience nodes. Between stealth or visi using them I welcome stealther more since more often than not a visible popping SL is to sniff out a sneak he saw enter stealth after a fight he wasn't involved in

Edited by Beckett

Tue 26 Jan 2021 4:05 AM by daytonchambers

the fact that the detection stacks with baked in stealth detect that sneaks get is beyond asinine.

I understand it as a tool for visibles to find elusive assassins, but as an iWin pot to guarantee that you secure initiative in a fight? Lame

Tue 26 Jan 2021 4:09 AM by joshisanonymous

If you're losing the initiative often because others are using SL pots and you're not, then just start using SL pots. To me, it's the same as using any other tool in the game.

Alternatively, you can camp locations that other stealthers are less likely to camp. If an enemy is using a SL pot in order to gain initiative as opposed to trying to find an enemy that's running away or that they only caught a glimpse of, then they're doing it in a location with very high stealther traffic. Otherwise, SL pots are simply too expensive to be popping all the time without being pretty confident that you're gonna find someone.

Tue 26 Jan 2021 4:36 AM by gotwqqd

Lag/Latency??

I don’t see lorenpots as reasonable fix
You just be guessing when to use them.

They are more for use when enemy stealth on you from short distance

Tue 26 Jan 2021 7:11 AM by Sepplord

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Jan 2021 4:09 AM
Alternatively, you can camp locations that other stealthers are less likely to camp. If an enemy is using a SL pot in order to gain initiative as opposed to trying to find an enemy that's running away or that they only caught a glimpse of, then they're doing it in a location with very high stealther traffic. Otherwise, SL pots are simply too expensive to be popping all the time without being pretty confident that you're gonna find someone.

This is the best answer imo.
SL pots aren't cheap and i doubt there are many (if any at all) that just pop it once a minute and run around with it baseline.

Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:37 AM by Astaa

Anyway, stop wasting people's time by breaking their speed, dotting them up, laying on disease then vanishing, then the visis won't pop stealth lore pots. Maybe add a condition to SL pots that makes them only work if you're ungrouped?

Vanish needs to have a condition added about how many people are nearby, so that it doesn't work in a 1v1, so sins can't pick a fight they are unlikely to win then bail when the obvious happens.

Tue 26 Jan 2021 2:57 PM by opossum12

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Jan 2021 7:11 AM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Jan 2021 4:09 AM
Alternatively, you can camp locations that other stealthers are less likely to camp. If an enemy is using a SL pot in order to gain initiative as opposed to trying to find an enemy that's running away or that they only caught a glimpse of, then they're doing it in a location with very high stealther traffic. Otherwise, SL pots are simply too expensive to be popping all the time without being pretty confident that you're gonna find someone.

This is the best answer imo.
SL pots aren't cheap and i doubt there are many (if any at all) that just pop it once a minute and run around with it baseline.

The potions are expensive in claws, don't last a long time and just don't work. We tried popping pots when we get added by stealthers that vanish/restealth and to be honest, stealth is completely busted on Phoenix. You can have someone stealth on top of you and they are impossible to see.

If you guys played Live you would cry so much, can see stealthers from miles away. Here, stealth is just broken.

Thu 28 Jan 2021 8:32 PM by bculpepper

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Jan 2021 2:57 PM
If you guys played Live you would cry so much, can see stealthers from miles away. Here, stealth is just broken.

On live there are only a fraction of the players so maybe they don't mind being uncovered - it removes the boredom.

I share the original posters frustration. I'm in NA, and either bad ping or SL pots - I get perfed a lot. I posted a screenshot a couple of weeks ago where I took the perf damage and the person who perfed me was still stealthed on my screen.

The real problem is the length of PA vs the detection range of stealth. Right now, if you can see it you can perf it. The PA range is larger than the normal stealth detection range so that the person with SL pot (and extended stealth detection) can perf you before you see them. IMO - the purpose of the SL pot is to find vanishers or avoid stealth fights. I personally don't like the use of it to PA someone who can't see you.

The PA range needs to be reduced and/or stealth detection increased. I'll also add that with today's stealth detection if you are in a 1v1 and see another stealth approaching its near impossible to side twist to avoid PA in time.

Thu 28 Jan 2021 11:34 PM by nAAs

SL pots are entirely shitty.

Used in stealth 1v1, they take a huge element of skill out of the game.
Used by a Small grp / Grp/ full grp whatever against a solo, well they're just plain insulting.

The only environment in which they're useful are really vs someone who vanished from a straight 1v1.

Anyway, GMs already made changes to 'stealth detection' based on number of stealthers in the area were made, so SL pots should really be removed. Unfortunately that stealth detection range change also harms soloers if they don't know they're near another grp of stealthers in their realm.

To stop the (ab)use of vanish implement a restriction to it based on either 'only after a kill' or only if a group of larger size is attacking you.Remove the timer, and just make it a viable ability to use in certain situations, much better.

Currently it's used by so many people who just add fights, vanish if they gonna lose, and then run back to the keep and wait 15 minutes until it's up again. Totally ruining the fun of the game for all.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 2:59 AM by Freudinio

Remove vanish from the game.
Remove the stealthlore pots from the game.

win/win.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 9:12 AM by Astaa

Freudinio wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 2:59 AM
Remove vanish from the game.
Remove the stealthlore pots from the game.

win/win.

This would work!

Sat 30 Jan 2021 12:36 PM by boridi

Freudinio wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 2:59 AM
Remove vanish from the game.
Remove the stealthlore pots from the game.

win/win.

Remove SoS, Ichor, Insta heals, IP, Dirty Tricks, etc. as well.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 12:51 PM by Tyrlaan

Give stealth lore as an ability to Reavers, Champs and Thanes. Make them classes to clear out stealthers (much like Vamps were) and to combat the pest which is stealthers on this server.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 1:15 PM by ExcretusMaximus

boridi wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 12:36 PM
Remove SoS, Ichor, Insta heals, IP, Dirty Tricks, etc. as well.

Ahh, yes, the portion of the argument where we pretend a class that can choose the majority of its fights also needs the ability to run away better than almost anyone else.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 2:29 PM by boridi

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 1:15 PM
boridi wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 12:36 PM
Remove SoS, Ichor, Insta heals, IP, Dirty Tricks, etc. as well.

Ahh, yes, the portion of the argument where we pretend a class that can choose the majority of its fights also needs the ability to run away better than almost anyone else.

SoS is much better for running away and it is 10 minute cooldown instead of 15, no 30 second disarm, applies to entire group, etc.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 3:40 PM by Blitze

Just make vanish only usable when there are 2 enemies near... its easy

I hate the ability but I know getting zerged as a solo sucks, so let them vanish from those things.

(SoS is a brilliant ability & almost as good as vanish when you solo, but it effects so much more of the RvR than vanish does... thus, much harder to fix.)

Sat 30 Jan 2021 5:17 PM by ProudGinger

Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 9:12 AM
Freudinio wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 2:59 AM
Remove vanish from the game.
Remove the stealthlore pots from the game.

win/win.

This would work!

I 100% agree with that, I don't even run vanish, it's a cheap RA that is only used to prevent adders from getting rps, which I don't care tbh since they get so low rps it's not worth 5 rps. If you use it 1v1 you are a pleb, if you use it to escape a adding small man than it's cheap since no other class can get away that easy for 5rps, etc. I feel no one is winning by using vanish. Gives Inf,ns and sb a bad reputation. The only instance where I would use it outside of "denying rps to adders" would be to survive vs another stealther if his lifebane is going to get me, which again I don't care, if you get me this low hp, you earned the rps anyway.

I'd rather get a RA that makes me stronger than a RA that is highly situational and is only used at denying rps. You don't win more encounters by having vanish, you just lose less.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 7:42 PM by Tyrlaan

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 1:15 PM
boridi wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 12:36 PM
Remove SoS, Ichor, Insta heals, IP, Dirty Tricks, etc. as well.

Ahh, yes, the portion of the argument where we pretend a class that can choose the majority of its fights also needs the ability to run away better than almost anyone else.

It´s a game design flaw that stealthers
- who can already choose their (or not to) fight can also disengage from a fight that easily (on top of clearing an enemy´s target after just 10sec out of fight/LoS)
- can only be forced into a fight by other stealthers because those are the only ones to get stealth detection

This has led to the proliferation of stealthers and their own microcosmos we experience now. It isn´t uncommon to see enemy stealthers not attack each other because they would rather both continue to stay invisible to farm visibles.

Give free stealth detection to the hybrids to they can solo or smallman clear the stealther-infested areas (while being vulnerable to higher numbers by being visible) and restore rock-scissor-paper balance to the game.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:20 PM by Tashkent

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 7:42 PM
It isn´t uncommon to see enemy stealthers not attack each other because they would rather both continue to stay invisible to farm visibles.

So you can see invisibles not attacking each other and want stealth lore because you can't see stealthers since they are invisible and can choose their fights? Asking for a friend.

Also when you say rock-paper-scissors to make it sound more equal you really mean change the food chain?

Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:44 PM by Tyrlaan

Tashkent wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:20 PM
So you can see invisibles not attacking each other and want stealth lore because you can't see stealthers since they are invisible and can choose their fights? Asking for a friend.

Way to omit half of what I wrote. No you don´t need to see invisibles to know they are around, just reading death spam or /region info is often enough to know they share the same area. But I guess that´s what you get Evade and Stealth for: to dodge and for distraction. Even on these boards.

Sat 30 Jan 2021 9:15 PM by WildWilbur

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 7:42 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 1:15 PM
boridi wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 12:36 PM
Remove SoS, Ichor, Insta heals, IP, Dirty Tricks, etc. as well.

Ahh, yes, the portion of the argument where we pretend a class that can choose the majority of its fights also needs the ability to run away better than almost anyone else.

It´s a game design flaw that stealthers
- who can already choose their (or not to) fight can also disengage from a fight that easily (on top of clearing an enemy´s target after just 10sec out of fight/LoS)
- can only be forced into a fight by other stealthers because those are the only ones to get stealth detection

This has led to the proliferation of stealthers and their own microcosmos we experience now. It isn´t uncommon to see enemy stealthers not attack each other because they would rather both continue to stay invisible to farm visibles.

Give free stealth detection to the hybrids to they can solo or smallman clear the stealther-infested areas (while being vulnerable to higher numbers by being visible) and restore rock-scissor-paper balance to the game.

Funny how you use "free stealth detection to the hybrids" and "balance" in one sentence

But at least they would be vulnerable to higher numbers - unlike any others...

Sat 30 Jan 2021 9:50 PM by Tashkent

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:44 PM
Tashkent wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:20 PM
So you can see invisibles not attacking each other and want stealth lore because you can't see stealthers since they are invisible and can choose their fights? Asking for a friend.
Way to omit half of what I wrote. No you don´t need to see invisibles to know they are around, just reading death spam or /region info is often enough to know they share the same area. But I guess that´s what you get Evade and Stealth for: to dodge and for distraction. Even on these boards.

And I only have evade III.

Mon 1 Feb 2021 8:42 AM by Sepplord

ProudGinger wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 5:17 PM
I 100% agree with that, I don't even run vanish, it's a cheap RA that is only used to prevent adders from getting rps, which I don't care tbh since they get so low rps it's not worth 5 rps. If you use it 1v1 you are a pleb, if you use it to escape a adding small man than it's cheap since no other class can get away that easy for 5rps, etc. I feel no one is winning by using vanish. Gives Inf,ns and sb a bad reputation. The only instance where I would use it outside of "denying rps to adders" would be to survive vs another stealther if his lifebane is going to get me, which again I don't care, if you get me this low hp, you earned the rps anyway.

I'd rather get a RA that makes me stronger than a RA that is highly situational and is only used at denying rps. You don't win more encounters by having vanish, you just lose less.

You are forgetting the stealthzerg scenarios, where vanish is incredibly useful to stay alive while your teammates keep fighting while the enemy has spent their ressources on killing you. See, as archers can just prekite while their friends keep dmg up, an assassin has few options after commiting to stealthzerg enemies. When you are camping enemy relic docks with 4-6 stealther, then dieing means you have to get back there alone, which might take a while and maybe they die when you are almost there etc... That's too unfun.

Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:58 PM by Stoertebecker

Tashkent wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 9:50 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:44 PM
Tashkent wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:20 PM
So you can see invisibles not attacking each other and want stealth lore because you can't see stealthers since they are invisible and can choose their fights? Asking for a friend.
Way to omit half of what I wrote. No you don´t need to see invisibles to know they are around, just reading death spam or /region info is often enough to know they share the same area. But I guess that´s what you get Evade and Stealth for: to dodge and for distraction. Even on these boards.
And I only have evade III.

Even Evade 1 is enough to evade critshots outta stealth on a regular basis.

Stil waiting for arrows to be parried like Legolas....with a knife.

Mon 1 Feb 2021 11:51 PM by Forlornhope

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:58 PM
Tashkent wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 9:50 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:44 PM
Tashkent wrote: ↑
Sat 30 Jan 2021 8:20 PM
So you can see invisibles not attacking each other and want stealth lore because you can't see stealthers since they are invisible and can choose their fights? Asking for a friend.
Way to omit half of what I wrote. No you don´t need to see invisibles to know they are around, just reading death spam or /region info is often enough to know they share the same area. But I guess that´s what you get Evade and Stealth for: to dodge and for distraction. Even on these boards.
And I only have evade III.

Even Evade 1 is enough to evade critshots outta stealth on a regular basis.
Stil waiting for arrows to be parried like Legolas....with a knife.

VW's can, forgot what the style's called but they toggle it to parry arrows

Tue 16 Feb 2021 9:53 PM by hopzx

I, for one, have never used a stealthlore pot, ever. I have the pride necessary to never, ever, ever, ever, ever use a stealth lore pot.

Anyway, WTB Claws. PST.