Heya ~Anaripper~ RR5L4 here ... I want to hear your perspectives, my savage is full hammer ⚒️ and group wise I wreck most classes pretty hard. Solo wise it's 50/50 due to killing myself and lack of positional(s)...and skill hahaha... but what's your specs and thoughts?
2H savage unpopular vote
Started 26 Jan 2021
by
xboxone
in
RvR
Tue 26 Jan 2021 10:54 PM
by
ExcretusMaximus
99.9% of people here are going to tell you it's garbage.
Personally, I loved my hammer Savage, and like you said, it wrecked people. Yes, you give up multihits, but there's something to be said for hitting for 400 every 1.5 seconds.
Personally, I loved my hammer Savage, and like you said, it wrecked people. Yes, you give up multihits, but there's something to be said for hitting for 400 every 1.5 seconds.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 12:41 PM
by
Bradekes
That's because you're lying about the dps. There is no way to swing for that dmg at that speed. Give me your weapon speed, your quickness, your RA, and your savagery level and we can determine your actual dps.
Most people are min/max in games and not nearly as daft as excretus here assumes they are. If 2h savage was crazy as he says people would play them and 8man would ask for them. I'm not saying not to play one, but there's a reason they aren't as popular.
The reason I call out excretus is to cap you weapon speed with 250qui and the highest 39% haste from savagery you'd have to be using a 4.1speed weapon. Anything slower than 4.1 speed will not be swinging at 1.5s unless you have weapon speed RA. Also no 4.1 speed weapon is going to hit anywhere near 400dmg as a savage.
Most people are min/max in games and not nearly as daft as excretus here assumes they are. If 2h savage was crazy as he says people would play them and 8man would ask for them. I'm not saying not to play one, but there's a reason they aren't as popular.
The reason I call out excretus is to cap you weapon speed with 250qui and the highest 39% haste from savagery you'd have to be using a 4.1speed weapon. Anything slower than 4.1 speed will not be swinging at 1.5s unless you have weapon speed RA. Also no 4.1 speed weapon is going to hit anywhere near 400dmg as a savage.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:02 PM
by
ExcretusMaximus
Bradekes wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 12:41 PMThat's because you're lying about the dps. There is no way to swing for that dmg at that speed. Give me your weapon speed, your quickness, your RA, and your savagery level and we can determine your actual dps.
...
The reason I call out excretus is to cap you weapon speed with 250qui and the highest 39% haste from savagery you'd have to be using a 4.1speed weapon. Anything slower than 4.1 speed will not be swinging at 1.5s unless you have weapon speed RA. Also no 4.1 speed weapon is going to hit anywhere near 400dmg as a savage.
You forgot which realm savages are on, celerity "caps" my swing speed with 49 Savagery (1.53 seconds).
5.6 speed weapon, 372 strength. Minimum damage per swing with variance is 275, maximum is 384, assuming 26% melee resist; I played him before the variance was reintroduced. My numbers were slightly off, it's been 8 months since I played him.
And why do I have to be lying? Why are you assuming malice? What is your problem?
EDIT:
The damage is actually higher than these numbers indicate, I forgot to factor in the 25% DPS buff from savagery.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:16 PM
by
skipari
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:02 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 12:41 PMThat's because you're lying about the dps. There is no way to swing for that dmg at that speed. Give me your weapon speed, your quickness, your RA, and your savagery level and we can determine your actual dps.
...
The reason I call out excretus is to cap you weapon speed with 250qui and the highest 39% haste from savagery you'd have to be using a 4.1speed weapon. Anything slower than 4.1 speed will not be swinging at 1.5s unless you have weapon speed RA. Also no 4.1 speed weapon is going to hit anywhere near 400dmg as a savage.
You forgot which realm savages are on, celerity "caps" my swing speed with 49 Savagery (1.53 seconds).
5.6 speed weapon, 372 strength. Minimum damage per swing with variance is 275, maximum is 384, assuming 26% melee resist; I played him before the variance was reintroduced. My numbers were slightly off, it's been 8 months since I played him.
And why do I have to be lying? Why are you assuming malice? What is your problem?
i always wanted to try that actually, since i really don't like the optic of the claws. With 39/31 and 5.6 the sweetspot seems to be 101 quickness for exactly 1.5s swingspeed.
oh boy, i think i know what i'll roll next level event lol
Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:48 PM
by
Bradekes
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:02 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 12:41 PMThat's because you're lying about the dps. There is no way to swing for that dmg at that speed. Give me your weapon speed, your quickness, your RA, and your savagery level and we can determine your actual dps.
...
The reason I call out excretus is to cap you weapon speed with 250qui and the highest 39% haste from savagery you'd have to be using a 4.1speed weapon. Anything slower than 4.1 speed will not be swinging at 1.5s unless you have weapon speed RA. Also no 4.1 speed weapon is going to hit anywhere near 400dmg as a savage.
You forgot which realm savages are on, celerity "caps" my swing speed with 49 Savagery (1.53 seconds).
5.6 speed weapon, 372 strength. Minimum damage per swing with variance is 275, maximum is 384, assuming 26% melee resist; I played him before the variance was reintroduced. My numbers were slightly off, it's been 8 months since I played him.
And why do I have to be lying? Why are you assuming malice? What is your problem?
Well savage haste and healer celerity are not supposed to stack. They didn't back in the day and I haven't tried that on phoenix. Mainly because the delve of savage haste is much higher than any other forms of haste. I'm not assuming malice. Maybe I should of said misinformation.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:49 PM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Bradekes wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:48 PMWell savage haste and healer celerity are not supposed to stack. They didn't back in the day and I haven't tried that on phoenix. Mainly because the delve of savage haste is much higher than any other forms of haste.
They did stack, still stack, stack here. Savage haste is and has always been haste, celerity is and has always been celerity. Haste and celerity do and have always stacked.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:05 PM
by
skipari
that always stacked, and savages had always haste.
Btw. lots of h2h savages will now do less damage through the more reliable celerity since they normally reached 1.5n swingspeed already with selfhaste only
There was a reason past in the time savage temps were often without or just a few points in +quickness and stuff.
Btw. lots of h2h savages will now do less damage through the more reliable celerity since they normally reached 1.5n swingspeed already with selfhaste only
There was a reason past in the time savage temps were often without or just a few points in +quickness and stuff.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:10 PM
by
Bradekes
I specifically remember the savage haste not stacking with celerity. I know normal haste and celerity stack. Maybe I'm mistaken but I can't go back and test.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:11 PM
by
Sepplord
to be fair though, that is closer to 300dmg per swing than 400dmg per swingExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:02 PMMinimum damage per swing with variance is 275, maximum is 384
Slightly offtopic question: how does haste/qui affect dmg when going under the cap?
Is damage lost by being able to theoretically swing faster but then being limited by the swing cap?
iirr only one of the two lowers dmg when going under cap, but it's been so long that i cared for melee mechanics
Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:16 PM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:11 PMSlightly offtopic question: how does haste/qui affect dmg when going under the cap?
Is damage lost by being able to theoretically swing faster but then being limited by the swing cap?
iirr only one of the two lowers dmg when going under cap, but it's been so long that i cared for melee mechanics
Here damage is intentionally not lost when undercapping, the swing speed is calculated and capped before the damage calculation. I honestly never bothered testing on live and only know many people saying that undercapping is a style damage loss without swing speed gain aka dps loss but since I had no intention of ever implementing that mechanic I didn't bother.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:19 PM
by
skipari
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:11 PMto be fair though, that is closer to 300dmg per swing than 400dmg per swingExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:02 PMMinimum damage per swing with variance is 275, maximum is 384
Slightly offtopic question: how does haste/qui affect dmg when going under the cap?
Is damage lost by being able to theoretically swing faster but then being limited by the swing cap?
iirr only one of the two lowers dmg when going under cap, but it's been so long that i cared for melee mechanics
afaik on live it was that the swingspeed below 1.5 caused a damage loss. I'm not sure if phoenix actually does the effective speed cap before the style damage calculation, if so then the damage wouldn't go down, but i haven't tested it yet.
ah gruenes answered already, so no loss below 1.5
Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:22 PM
by
skipari
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:16 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 2:11 PMSlightly offtopic question: how does haste/qui affect dmg when going under the cap?
Is damage lost by being able to theoretically swing faster but then being limited by the swing cap?
iirr only one of the two lowers dmg when going under cap, but it's been so long that i cared for melee mechanics
Here damage is intentionally not lost when undercapping, the swing speed is calculated and capped before the damage calculation. I honestly never bothered testing on live and only know many people saying that undercapping is a style damage loss without swing speed gain aka dps loss but since I had no intention of ever implementing that mechanic I didn't bother.
uh, nice thing about this is that you can actually go full qui/haste without diminishing returns and circumvent haste/qui debuffs that way
Wed 27 Jan 2021 3:31 PM
by
poplik
one thing about 2H savage is that you're gonna chew through endu like a madman, so on top of your buffs you're also be losing additional health with the endo heals.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 4:15 PM
by
ExcretusMaximus
It would be if I hadn't forgotten to include the 25% DPS increase buff from Savagery, but with it you clear 400 easily.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 7:42 PM
by
Chuba
Bradekes wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:48 PMWell savage haste and healer celerity are not supposed to stack. They didn't back in the day and I haven't tried that on phoenix. Mainly because the delve of savage haste is much higher than any other forms of haste. I'm not assuming malice. Maybe I should of said misinformation.
Another non cense post... assumign you also never played savage...
2H savage was a big thing on live at SI times, but this times are gone and 2h2 has the biggest spike chances. Quadhit with crits and procs on a caster remembers you why h2h is the way to go. Speccing 2H is also very nice and does huge constant damage. But as said in my sentence, it's constant... so it's also easy to keep someone alive with a good healer.
Wed 27 Jan 2021 8:04 PM
by
skipari
Chuba wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 7:42 PMAnother non cense post... assumign you also never played savage...
2H savage was a big thing on live at SI times, but this times are gone and 2h2 has the biggest spike chances. Quadhit with crits and procs on a caster remembers you why h2h is the way to go. Speccing 2H is also very nice and does huge constant damage. But as said in my sentence, it's constant... so it's also easy to keep someone alive with a good healer.
Funny, procs are not really in the favor of dualwield/quadhit classes on phoenix since the procchance is nearly the same with 15% vs 18%/21.6% (rog/feather, 4.2), but the mhb/healproc got pushed to 150/100 value.
Thu 28 Jan 2021 2:02 AM
by
Bradekes
Chuba wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 7:42 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:48 PMWell savage haste and healer celerity are not supposed to stack. They didn't back in the day and I haven't tried that on phoenix. Mainly because the delve of savage haste is much higher than any other forms of haste. I'm not assuming malice. Maybe I should of said misinformation.
Another non cense post... assumign you also never played savage...
2H savage was a big thing on live at SI times, but this times are gone and 2h2 has the biggest spike chances. Quadhit with crits and procs on a caster remembers you why h2h is the way to go. Speccing 2H is also very nice and does huge constant damage. But as said in my sentence, it's constant... so it's also easy to keep someone alive with a good healer.
Why would you assume I had not when I specifically stated I did. Also 2h savage was limited to 5.0 and faster weapons I am pretty sure on live, which is not the way it is here. I mainly played my savage in molvik because I had Dialup back in the day and my internet couldn't handle the bigger fights in the frontiers. I am not sure why I remember the haste not stacking with celerity, as I stated, but I also admitted I could be wrong about it, though there is no way to really test that.
Thu 28 Jan 2021 1:08 PM
by
xboxone
poplik wrote: ↑Wed 27 Jan 2021 3:31 PMone thing about 2H savage is that you're gonna chew through endu like a madman, so on top of your buffs you're also be losing additional health with the endo heals.
Actually as long as your not running ruiner and stick with provoke / conquer there is little to no endo problem at all even with yellow endo, now if you do use ruiner your gonna run into endo problem really quick even with red Endo. General I stick with parry/haste/dmg boosters. Nothing else. And the reason for parry over evade is because I already have a good evade rate,(can't remember rate %) but with parry booster+skills+RAs=capped parry rate at 50%..(has been tested) However with two-handed opponents, this rate is halved.
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