Encourage solo!

Started 14 Jan 2021
by BPICKEREL
in RvR
First off not crying love the game lol. As Ive been playing it on and off for 20 years.

But.. Can we increase the task realm points for people who remain solo during the task tick? Would this encourage more people to be solo? Starting to get frustrating with the extreme low amount of solo fighters and adds on a solo fight.

And the tag thing is not working.

Just my opinion.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 6:56 AM by protege
They powers at hand have already stated nothing will be done directly for solo players.

Quit asking already, people.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:02 AM by Freudinio
protege wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 6:56 AM
They powers at hand have already stated nothing will be done directly for solo players.

Quit asking already, people.

Meanwhile 8mans get incentives to not only actually fight eachother, but to leave soloers and smallman alone.

heh.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:07 AM by protege
Freudinio wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:02 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 6:56 AM
They powers at hand have already stated nothing will be done directly for solo players.

Quit asking already, people.

Meanwhile 8mans get incentives to not only actually fight eachother, but to leave soloers and smallman alone.

heh.

To be fair, anytime they have done something for soloers (solo pvp zone, direct teleport to trelle/moy/folley), people turn it into a bow-town.. which is vexing.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:21 AM by Jingo NZ
protege wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:07 AM
To be fair, anytime they have done something for soloers (solo pvp zone, direct teleport to trelle/moy/folley), people turn it into a bow-town.. which is vexing.

Yes, this is the human behaviour challenge. Players will ask for "fair fights" or "QOL improvements" but there is an underlying desire just to win more and lose less. This is why the new solo environment quickly gets saturated by the optimal 1v1 classes, high RR toons and unofficial rules of engagement that favour both of those.

Not an easy game design challenge. To increase the fun/challenge for solo pvp but only in a way that supports the overall RvR ecosystem.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:54 AM by protege
Jingo NZ wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:21 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:07 AM
To be fair, anytime they have done something for soloers (solo pvp zone, direct teleport to trelle/moy/folley), people turn it into a bow-town.. which is vexing.

Yes, this is the human behaviour challenge. Players will ask for "fair fights" or "QOL improvements" but there is an underlying desire just to win more and lose less. This is why the new solo environment quickly gets saturated by the optimal 1v1 classes, high RR toons and unofficial rules of engagement that favour both of those.

Not an easy game design challenge. To increase the fun/challenge for solo pvp but only in a way that supports the overall RvR ecosystem.

Yep .. I don't understand why solos roaming and not assjamming each other's fights is so difficult to orchestrate (ala gvg list)
Thu 14 Jan 2021 10:57 AM by Noashakra
Re open solo porters, add guardians like in PoC to avoid people camping in one place and forming bow towns (timer 2mn), add the number of spawn points and reduce disease timer.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 11:47 AM by alex200k
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 10:57 AM
Re open solo porters, add guardians like in PoC to avoid people camping in one place and forming bow towns (timer 2mn), add the number of spawn points and reduce disease timer.

Mind blown, what an idea.
Thu 14 Jan 2021 6:40 PM by Lefreak
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 10:57 AM
Re open solo porters, add guardians like in PoC to avoid people camping in one place and forming bow towns (timer 2mn), add the number of spawn points and reduce disease timer.

Good idea, mostly for the disease. Timer on that is ridiculous .



Tytyty
Thu 14 Jan 2021 9:00 PM by Blitze
Solo RvR should be that, not pvp!

It should involve assjammin, being assjammed, 1v1v1s, and 1v1s. The first day of the pvp zone was like that and it was fun...Then high RR bowtown after.

We need full solo chaos warts n all...

1. Make another solo event for 1 day or 1 eve then bowtown doesn’t have chance to take hold!

2. Maybe Solo porters to solo keeps could work, then having a 2min DD pulse on those zones that damages people who stay in it, (it has to Increase in damage DD pulse(e.g. 500, 1000, 2000, And 4000 After 8 mins??? Maybe)
you don’t want to encourage too many sitting and healing through it).

3. Make people in that zone earn less and less RPs the longer they stay in the zone. (25% after 2 min, 50% less RPs after 4 mins And 75% after 6 min ). Leaving zone for 5 mins resets it. (Maybe getting a solo kill In the zone resets ur timer?)



All these things would make fun solo carnage.
However, options two and three would still get farmed by groups. To alleviate this, make solos who’ve ported there receive a buff that lowers their RP worth to less than 50% when killed by people who are grouped!
Sun 17 Jan 2021 10:06 PM by krycek
I remember back on live when NF was still new. The server/cluster I was on the solo/small man players kind of formed their own little area to congregate to. Like the center keeps and surrounding areas. Always stayed away from the bled and beno area's etc since it was such a heavy traffic area with all of the coast guard type players that just swarm to everything they see. Not sure if that has been tried here or is happening now. But just a thought.
Tue 19 Jan 2021 11:06 AM by Gotmagi
Soloers are scum, they should find some friends and group. Red is dead.
Tue 19 Jan 2021 12:00 PM by Sepplord
Gotmagi wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 11:06 AM
Read is dead.
Oh...is that why the bookreport subsection gets so few posts?
Tue 19 Jan 2021 2:12 PM by Gotmagi
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 12:00 PM
Gotmagi wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 11:06 AM
Read is dead.
Oh...is that why the bookreport subsection gets so few posts?

Goddamn books
Tue 19 Jan 2021 3:18 PM by soremir
Gotmagi wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 11:06 AM
Soloers are scum, they should find some friends and group. Red is dead.

Hahaha this actually made me lol at my desk. Rebel scum.
Tue 19 Jan 2021 5:17 PM by Sagz
BPICKEREL wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 3:22 AM
First off not crying love the game lol. As Ive been playing it on and off for 20 years.

But.. Can we increase the task realm points for people who remain solo during the task tick? Would this encourage more people to be solo? Starting to get frustrating with the extreme low amount of solo fighters and adds on a solo fight.

And the tag thing is not working.

Just my opinion.

of course the /tag wont work, its just not worth it.
1. the soloer and small mans run on site (which is normal) and the range for /tag is so short you cant tag 90% of the people.
2. if you leave them, they just add on your subsequent fight so negating a GvG cleanfight (dont get me started that system is flawed enough as it is) or you losing a fight because of the adds.
3. the hate /tells...yes the hate /tells of why did you just let me die! haha yea it happens, you let them die by respecting they complain, you kill them its why did you add!

just kill them and be done with it, its more RPs anyway.

personally the whole /gvg and /fairfight complaints are realistically invalid, if you want those, go to a secluded area and others on the list will follow, which is why there is a location. Dont hump docks/keeps/flags/task zones and complain, thats on you, you control the fight locations when you want to participate in those activities.
Tue 19 Jan 2021 5:19 PM by Sagz
krycek wrote:
Sun 17 Jan 2021 10:06 PM
I remember back on live when NF was still new. The server/cluster I was on the solo/small man players kind of formed their own little area to congregate to. Like the center keeps and surrounding areas. Always stayed away from the bled and beno area's etc since it was such a heavy traffic area with all of the coast guard type players that just swarm to everything they see. Not sure if that has been tried here or is happening now. But just a thought.

True, the soloers and small mans had areas they people just "knew" and left it alone, same with the 8v8s. I cant figure out why that is so hard here. There was even a spot in Laby that was filled with soloers and noone messed with them really, it was just one of this unwritten rules.
Tue 19 Jan 2021 7:07 PM by Magesty
I've only been back to playing on Phoenix regularly for a few weeks now, but the solo/small man environment seems to be in really good shape. Of course, the expectations are (rightfully) so low that "good shape" really just means you'll get a handful of good fights per hour depending on the time of day and how inclined stealthers are to try to fight you.

Now that OF is dead and gone I do not think that small mans/soloers should be rewarded in any way with a special zone where they can sit around and circle jerk. The solo mentality can be just as toxic as the 8v8 mentality, and as others have mentioned this will devolve into a bow town where people only trot out the most OP 1v1 options, and seek to create a code of ethics wherein they benefit the most. There are plenty of places in NF to go and find smaller fights, especially with the consistent rotation of the task zones and implementation of Ellan Vannin. As someone who pretty much exclusively solos/duos/trios this is by far and away the best environment I've seen since the official classic servers. After the misery of OF during beta and launch it is great to see things coming together.

The way I see it the following items being implemented or addressed would go the farthest towards creating a healthier climate for solo play:

1) Implement old bridges - OG NF bridges allowed players to more effectively hide and camp as larger groups of players generally wont be bothered combing through them. Creating structure that reduces visibility is extremely important to solo and, circumstantially, small man play.

2) Reduce disease duration - This is a no brainer. Most solo classes don't have a way to deal with disease and the result is being crippled for 2m after winning a fight or forcing a vanish. It's poor design and should be addressed. Honestly NS probably should be adjusted to create more active gameplay/counter play as well, but it isn't very relevant to solo play.

3) Adjust assassin power - Over time a number of changes have been made to assassins and the game in general that have resulted in power creep that is borderline untenable for a number of solo visible classes. The result of this is that they are slightly over-tuned across the board. This is a complicated issue that would require a fairly long post to address in entirety, but, put succinctly, and leaving out a few issues, assassins have benefitted from the following: The prevalence of spec AF, high value heal procs, and defensive RAs (MoP, MoB) has created a meta that strongly favors damage that is not mitigated by any of those-- for example magic damage DoTs and con debuffs. Assassins can both apply extremely strong DoTs and reduce the value of all healing. This creates a situation where maybe the individual aspects of assassins aren't problematic, but in relation to the current meta they seem a little too strong. Additionally, free MoS results in additional RSPs to spend on damage RAs like viper and MoA as well as higher vanish and purge. When considering balance the whole picture needs to be looked at, and I think this has not been done with regards to assassins.

4) No one uses /tag - Seems like a good concept, but clearly the implementation needs some work. I think I've had one group use it on me.
Tue 19 Jan 2021 7:16 PM by gotwqqd
Gotmagi wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 11:06 AM
Soloers are scum, they should find some friends and group. Red is dead.
Except when a soloer helps realm mates in an 8v8
Tue 19 Jan 2021 8:02 PM by soremir
Magesty wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 7:07 PM
3) Adjust assassin power - Over time a number of changes have been made to assassins and the game in general that have resulted in power creep that is borderline untenable for a number of solo visible classes. The result of this is that they are slightly over-tuned across the board. This is a complicated issue that would require a fairly long post to address in entirety, but, put succinctly, and leaving out a few issues, assassins have benefitted from the following: The prevalence of spec AF, high value heal procs, and defensive RAs (MoP, MoB) has created a meta that strongly favors damage that is not mitigated by any of those-- for example magic damage DoTs and con debuffs. Assassins can both apply extremely strong DoTs and reduce the value of all healing. This creates a situation where maybe the individual aspects of assassins aren't problematic, but in relation to the current meta they seem a little too strong. Additionally, free MoS results in additional RSPs to spend on damage RAs like viper and MoA as well as higher vanish and purge. When considering balance the whole picture needs to be looked at, and I think this has not been done with regards to assassins.


Uh oh, you said it! ASSASSIN GODS! ASSEMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Tue 19 Jan 2021 10:27 PM by Magesty
soremir wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 8:02 PM
Uh oh, you said it! ASSASSIN GODS! ASSEMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I know, I know. I don't think they are anywhere near unbeatable or insanely OP, but they do need a few small adjustments to bring them more in line with where they should be considering the patch level and emergent meta.

Reduce disease poison duration

Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play. (Do any assassins actually enjoy weapon swap mechanics?)

Reduce value of certain damage RAs to correct for free MoS
Wed 20 Jan 2021 12:53 AM by Jingo NZ
Magesty wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 10:27 PM
soremir wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 8:02 PM
Uh oh, you said it! ASSASSIN GODS! ASSEMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I know, I know. I don't think they are anywhere near unbeatable or insanely OP, but they do need a few small adjustments to bring them more in line with where they should be considering the patch level and emergent meta.

Reduce disease poison duration

Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play. (Do any assassins actually enjoy weapon swap mechanics?)

Reduce value of certain damage RAs to correct for free MoS

No, he was summoning the assassin gods to this forum thread to fill the next 10 pages proving how beatable assassins are and that people just need to ltp and git gud.
Wed 20 Jan 2021 2:56 AM by soremir
Magesty wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 10:27 PM
soremir wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 8:02 PM
Uh oh, you said it! ASSASSIN GODS! ASSEMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I know, I know. I don't think they are anywhere near unbeatable or insanely OP, but they do need a few small adjustments to bring them more in line with where they should be considering the patch level and emergent meta.

Reduce disease poison duration

Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play. (Do any assassins actually enjoy weapon swap mechanics?)

Reduce value of certain damage RAs to correct for free MoS

Haha, I do think all three of these things are super reasonable to be fair!
Wed 20 Jan 2021 3:22 PM by Eckso
Magesty wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 10:27 PM
soremir wrote:
Tue 19 Jan 2021 8:02 PM
Uh oh, you said it! ASSASSIN GODS! ASSEMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I know, I know. I don't think they are anywhere near unbeatable or insanely OP, but they do need a few small adjustments to bring them more in line with where they should be considering the patch level and emergent meta.

Reduce disease poison duration

Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play. (Do any assassins actually enjoy weapon swap mechanics?)

Reduce value of certain damage RAs to correct for free MoS

Lol Magesty

When you have more play time on this server and solo game, we will listen to your opinion

-Exo
Wed 20 Jan 2021 4:32 PM by Magesty
Eckso wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 3:22 PM
Lol Magesty

When you have more play time on this server and solo game, we will listen to your opinion

-Exo

You're right Exo-- The break I took from Phoenix has almost completely erased any knowledge I had of DAoC mechanics acquired through nearly two decades and countless iterations of the game. Can I even form a coherent argument without grinding to RR10+ as a purely solo player on this iteration? How could I even begin to grasp the struggle of a tiny Lurikeen, weighed down by bags full of weapons, just trying to make it in the world? Surely, in my ignorance, I could never comprehend what you and other assassins have gone through and are continuing to go through. Let's be honest, I'm positively oozing with visible privilege, and it is my job to be silent and listen to you about your experiences as an assassin.

Maybe you could tell me your story and address my points to help clear things up for me?
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:19 PM by Tashkent
this is what nearly two decades of daoc knowledge produce?

"prevalence of spec AF, high value heal procs, and defensive RAs (MoP, MoB) has created a meta that strongly favors damage that is not mitigated by any of those" - so the prevalance of high defenses is not in any way an argument against assassins?

"Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play." - so purging poisons straight away should leave assassins with nothing but low defense, low hitpoints and relatively low melee damage? what would you suggest for compensation? higher frontload on pa/bs/bs2? good luck advocating this to casters.

"Reduce value of certain damage RAs to correct for free MoS" - there is absolutely no connection between the state of mos (speccable ra or not) and the state of assassins.

however, reducing the timer on disease poison is very much appreciated.
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:55 PM by gotwqqd
Tashkent wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:19 PM
this is what nearly two decades of daoc knowledge produce?

"prevalence of spec AF, high value heal procs, and defensive RAs (MoP, MoB) has created a meta that strongly favors damage that is not mitigated by any of those" - so the prevalance of high defenses is not in any way an argument against assassins?

"Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play." - so purging poisons straight away should leave assassins with nothing but low defense, low hitpoints and relatively low melee damage? what would you suggest for compensation? higher frontload on pa/bs/bs2? good luck advocating this to casters.

I’d say boosting melee damage as compensation is a good idea for reapplication loss
Wed 20 Jan 2021 9:13 PM by krycek
I'd be all for lowering poison damage and increasing damage on CS openers. Ya know, to feel like an actual assassin. Perfing a cloth wearer for 300 damage just screams assassin. Landing perf used to feel rewarding. This version of the class feels bad.
Wed 20 Jan 2021 9:15 PM by WildWilbur
Tashkent wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:19 PM
this is what nearly two decades of daoc knowledge produce?

"prevalence of spec AF, high value heal procs, and defensive RAs (MoP, MoB) has created a meta that strongly favors damage that is not mitigated by any of those" - so the prevalance of high defenses is not in any way an argument against assassins?

"Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play." - so purging poisons straight away should leave assassins with nothing but low defense, low hitpoints and relatively low melee damage? what would you suggest for compensation? higher frontload on pa/bs/bs2? good luck advocating this to casters.


Stop spamming common sense in this forum - you entangle the folks here!

On topic: Stop re-applying poison? Make poisons unpurgable! Problem solved!

"Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire." (Charlie Chaplin)
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:05 AM by Magesty
Tashkent wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:19 PM
this is what nearly two decades of daoc knowledge produce?

"prevalence of spec AF, high value heal procs, and defensive RAs (MoP, MoB) has created a meta that strongly favors damage that is not mitigated by any of those" - so the prevalance of high defenses is not in any way an argument against assassins?

It isn't a good enough one to be of much value. First of all, assassins also receive spec AF and heal procs. Second of all assassins not being able to spec into MoB and MoP isn't a zero sum equation. That is ~20 RSPs that can be used in any number of ways, even if bolstering defenses isn't one of them (unless you consider ~2% evade to be worthwhile). These are points that have to be spent by visibles to be competitive. Again, you are simply ignoring the fact that assassins greatly reduce the effectiveness of the other items on that list by virtue of their kit while receiving the full benefits themselves.

Tashkent wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:19 PM
"Review poison re-application mechanics. Purging poisons should be an option for meaningful counter play." - so purging poisons straight away should leave assassins with nothing but low defense, low hitpoints and relatively low melee damage? what would you suggest for compensation? higher frontload on pa/bs/bs2? good luck advocating this to casters.

Generally when things are purged it reduces the effectiveness of the class that has applied them, yes.

I would certainly suggest a change to PA/BS-- perhaps something that wouldn't affect casters as much like % AF or ABS decrease on the swing. As it stands right now it seems to not matter nearly enough if an assassin lands an opener versus a melee visible. In a fight where RL and gear is relatively comparable an assassin should have some trouble beating a proper melee class without landing an opener. That is the trade off for stealth.

If poisons are purged they shouldn't be able to be reapplied immediately, and let's not ignore that the con debuff has already done ~500 damage regardless of reapplication status. Dragging around bags full of weapons to swap mid combat is something that has become more and more common over the years and seems to be exacerbated here by the /switch command and the devs' puzzling tolerance of scripters. It is an archaic mechanic that can and should be retooled.

Tashkent wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 8:19 PM
"Reduce value of certain damage RAs to correct for free MoS" - there is absolutely no connection between the state of mos (speccable ra or not) and the state of assassins.

however, reducing the timer on disease poison is very much appreciated.

All else being equal would a character that had to spend RSPs on MoS be stronger or weaker than one received it for free? How can you possibly argue that this doesn't affect the state of assassins? I'm not proposing it be re-implemented as an RA, as it was poor design, but receiving it for free was clearly a direct buff.

It seems we can all agree on disease duration.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:02 PM by SlowMo
Double PA and BS damage and I happily spec out of Viper .-)
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:26 PM by Noashakra
Tanks also get the AF from buffs, if you remove them from the buff pots, the tanks will suffer on the same scale. The big losers are the ranger/hunter who had an advantage with their own AF buff.
I am all for removing the AF spec from buff pots, but it will not impact the assassins vs tanks, on the contrary, the frontload will benefit from it.

AoM got a boost and is a direct counter to viper. Everyone runs with AoM 3-7 because it's just too good. Some class like skalds or Paladins can even spam their resists without mana/endo cost to counter magical damages.

Giving immunity on poisons is like giving immunity to a mage DD/Dot = really bad idea... Suggesting that shows your "exeperience" of the game is really limited.

Disease everyone wants to lower the timer.

MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:12 PM by Runental
Remove full pots completely, only single reust pots, endurance reg 2 minutes like back in the days or give selfbuff classes something in exchange.

Back in the days were you even could see solo Wardens and shamans, here they have fully disadvantage....
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:14 PM by Sepplord
SlowMo wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:02 PM
Double PA and BS damage and I happily spec out of Viper .-)

That could be an intresting idea, have a passive RA that increases stealth-openers damage.
Or maybe even an active that you have to press before it happens, either with a timewindow in which stealthopeners dmg is increased, or giving a one-time-buff similar to how DI works
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:48 PM by DJ2000
Runental wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:12 PM
Remove full pots completely, only single reust pots, endurance reg 2 minutes like back in the days or give selfbuff classes something in exchange.

Back in the days were you even could see solo Wardens and shamans, here they have fully disadvantage....
I fully agree with this.
Get rid of all the pots from RvR-Zones. No pots or items with charges. Keep 'em in PvE as much as strong as long as you want, idc.
Instant Endurance, Health and Mana are the only pots/items that should be allowed.
Feather items with haste, DA and such as procs (not charges) also fine.

You want a certain buff? Play a class that has it. Otherwise, Grp with a class that can provide it.
(Balancing stuff would be at least 100x easier)
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:58 PM by Sepplord
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:26 PM
MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.
How is giving stealther free movement speed in stealth gimping stealthers VS visi? That makes no sense
The unavailability of the detectionrange-bonus has no impact on stealther VS visible 1vs1...for groups it benefits the stealthers as a visi group cannot take a MOS9 archer to clean out hiding stealthers
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:20 PM by SlowMo
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:14 PM
SlowMo wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:02 PM
Double PA and BS damage and I happily spec out of Viper .-)

That could be an intresting idea, have a passive RA that increases stealth-openers damage.
Or maybe even an active that you have to press before it happens, either with a timewindow in which stealthopeners dmg is increased, or giving a one-time-buff similar to how DI works

Not excactly what I was up to, but Ok :-)

I was more like, when you think about touching envenom we seriously need to have a talk about tweaking PA/BS.


But this thread is not about Sins, its about Solo in general. Although <most> Sins tend to solo (haha y funny, I know)
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:37 PM by Noashakra
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 2:58 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:26 PM
MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.
How is giving stealther free movement speed in stealth gimping stealthers VS visi? That makes no sense
The unavailability of the detectionrange-bonus has no impact on stealther VS visible 1vs1...for groups it benefits the stealthers as a visi group cannot take a MOS9 archer to clean out hiding stealthers

Nobody spec in MoS for the speed on live, only for the detection of archers in the stealth war... If you don't get that spending 10+ RA points in a tool that is just useful because if you don't have it you will be a prey to other stealthers is gimping you vs visi, I can't do anything...

99% of the people will not spec into high stealth to have a better MoS and moving speed on this server. Good players don't care about that. What is the bonus of going 2% faster lol...

And yeah exactly, you already have lame 8man running around with hunters to kill solos, and you just want them to be able to jump everything with a MoS 9 hunter lmao.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:44 PM by Sepplord
I didnt say i want it, you claimed free MOS Speed and No detection bonus here hurts stealthers vs visibles, which doesn't make sense

I am starting to guess that you mean the opposite and are just wording your thought ambigiously. No need to get pissed at me for that, isn't it better when misunderstanding get cleared Up?
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:57 PM by Noashakra
MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.

I don't know, the use of the past makes it pretty clear to me I was speaking about live...
You know, because having to spend 10+Ra points for that?
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:57 PM by Magesty
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:26 PM
Tanks also get the AF from buffs, if you remove them from the buff pots, the tanks will suffer on the same scale. The big losers are the ranger/hunter who had an advantage with their own AF buff.
I am all for removing the AF spec from buff pots, but it will not impact the assassins vs tanks, on the contrary, the frontload will benefit from it.

AoM got a boost and is a direct counter to viper. Everyone runs with AoM 3-7 because it's just too good. Some class like skalds or Paladins can even spam their resists without mana/endo cost to counter magical damages.

Giving immunity on poisons is like giving immunity to a mage DD/Dot = really bad idea... Suggesting that shows your "exeperience" of the game is really limited.

Disease everyone wants to lower the timer.

MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.

I was planning to stop participating in this thread as I have clearly derailed it (unintentionally- let's shift the focus to discussing how much better the OG bridges were?), but as you directly addressed me and seemingly misunderstood nearly everything I was trying to convey I'm obligated to respond. I understand that English is a second language for many here, so I will try to reiterate some of the points I was trying to make as clearly as possible.

Ignoring fringe cases like the Paladin & Friar, the AF from buff pots is a net neutral gain statistically for all parties relevant to this discussion. No where did I suggest removing spec AF from potions. I do think making buff charges nearly unusable was a good decision as they were a needlessly gated and clunky mechanic.

Now, let's picture two characters fighting. One is an assassin and one is a melee without a self AF buff. Each one is going to experience a similar reduction in melee damage from the AF potion buff they have in common, however, the one that does a larger portion of magic damage is going to be less affected overall as AF does not reduce magic damage. It is a relatively small thing in and of itself, but part of a bigger picture that is import to consider. I'm unclear on your point about assassin frontload somehow reaping more benefit from AF being removed relative to a pure melee character. Remember, the assassin would be losing the buff too, and their damage at this point in time is fairly close to being entirely mixed magic and melee.

I never suggested immunity to poisons. I said reapplication needs to be more difficult. I do appreciate the blatant false equivalency with mage DD and DoTs though, it really strengthened your case. If you purge a round of poisons they shouldn't all be reapplied within 4-6 seconds. As I said in my previous post, this has always been a problem with the game, but has been massively exacerbated here due to weapon swapping commands and widespread scripting. For what it is worth, I think 2h/DW shield users should receive a massive penalty to block chance when swapping to 1h/shield in between swings. In my opinion both forms of weapon swapping betray design intent and have been exacerbated due to years of meta gaming, Phoenix custom commands, and this bizarre tolerance of scripting.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 4:02 PM by Lollie
Magesty wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:57 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 1:26 PM
Tanks also get the AF from buffs, if you remove them from the buff pots, the tanks will suffer on the same scale. The big losers are the ranger/hunter who had an advantage with their own AF buff.
I am all for removing the AF spec from buff pots, but it will not impact the assassins vs tanks, on the contrary, the frontload will benefit from it.

AoM got a boost and is a direct counter to viper. Everyone runs with AoM 3-7 because it's just too good. Some class like skalds or Paladins can even spam their resists without mana/endo cost to counter magical damages.

Giving immunity on poisons is like giving immunity to a mage DD/Dot = really bad idea... Suggesting that shows your "exeperience" of the game is really limited.

Disease everyone wants to lower the timer.

MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.

I was planning to stop participating in this thread as I have clearly derailed it (unintentionally- let's shift the focus to discussing how much better the OG bridges were?), but as you directly addressed me and seemingly misunderstood nearly everything I was trying to convey I'm obligated to respond. I understand that English is a second language for many here, so I will try to reiterate some of the points I was trying to make as clearly as possible.

Ignoring fringe cases like the Paladin & Friar, the AF from buff pots is a net neutral gain statistically for all parties relevant to this discussion. No where did I suggest removing spec AF from potions. I do think making buff charges nearly unusable was a good decision as they were a needlessly gated and clunky mechanic.

Now, let's picture two characters fighting. One is an assassin and one is a melee without a self AF buff. Each one is going to experience a similar reduction in melee damage from the AF potion buff they have in common, however, the one that does a larger portion of magic damage is going to be less affected overall as AF does not reduce magic damage. It is a relatively small thing in and of itself, but part of a bigger picture that is import to consider. I'm unclear on your point about assassin frontload somehow reaping more benefit from AF being removed relative to a pure melee character. Remember, the assassin would be losing the buff too, and their damage at this point in time is fairly close to being entirely mixed magic and melee.

I never suggested immunity to poisons. I said reapplication needs to be more difficult. I do appreciate the blatant false equivalency with mage DD and DoTs though, it really strengthened your case. If you purge a round of poisons they shouldn't all be reapplied within 4-6 seconds. As I said in my previous post, this has always been a problem with the game, but has been massively exacerbated here due to weapon swapping commands and widespread scripting. For what it is worth, I think 2h/DW shield users should receive a massive penalty to block chance when swapping to 1h/shield in between swings. In my opinion both forms of weapon swapping betray design intent and have been exacerbated due to years of meta gaming, Phoenix custom commands, and this bizarre tolerance of scripting.

You summoned them, you deal with them!
Thu 21 Jan 2021 4:04 PM by Magesty
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:37 PM
Nobody spec in MoS for the speed on live, only for the detection of archers in the stealth war... If you don't get that spending 10+ RA points in a tool that is just useful because if you don't have it you will be a prey to other stealthers is gimping you vs visi, I can't do anything...


This is exactly the point I am making about MoS, thank you. It is clearly a bad mechanic, but assassins receiving it for free is a flat buff via unlocked RSPs and needs to be considered as part of the bigger picture.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 4:11 PM by Noashakra
his is exactly the point I am making about MoS, thank you. It is clearly a bad mechanic, but assassins receiving it for free is a flat buff via unlocked RSPs and needs to be considered as part of the bigger picture.

Except it's a flat range of 150 (asn vs asn) / 250 units (archers vs archers/asn), look at how far it is. Archers lost camo, and Assassins lost the stealth bonus vs archers without camo. It's a trade off to make archers less vulnerable to PA... And if you decease stealth to increase other stats, you lose movement speed. So no, it's not a flat buff for assasssins.

I do appreciate the blatant false equivalency with mage DD and DoTs though,
Why? Do you have a timer on thane cast DD? You spec to have the ability to use dot as a damage. In counter part, assassins have low damage table, low hp table, etc.
Giving a 6s immunity is a death sentence, you don't realise how long it is. If I can't reapply WS/C after a purge in three swings, I am dead, perdiod.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 4:13 PM by Sepplord
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 3:57 PM
MoS on this server is free because it's not the MoS of live... You see people stealthed at +/-200 unit period. It killed the stealth war and in the mean time gimped a lot stealthers vs visi.

I don't know, the use of the past makes it pretty clear to me I was speaking about live...
You know, because having to spend 10+Ra points for that?

Considering the Implementation in Phoenix happened two years ago, i would say that also happened in the past. You only spoke about the Implementation in this Server and then follow with your "it killed the stealthwar..." sentence. That "it" refers to an previously unmentioned entity is very unclear.
I am Not sure what that random bolding is supposed to mean at all neither.


You are upset and emotionally arguing things noone here has suggested, and when someone dares to ask for clarification you get pissed at them.
In the end you are confirming that the current implementation of MoS is a huge buff for all stealthers as all detectionmechanics have been removed. That is the fact that was mentioned.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 4:19 PM by Noashakra
In the end you are confirming that the current implementation of MoS is a huge buff for all stealthers as all detectionmechanics have been removed. That is the fact that was mentioned.

Free vs RA points vs a visi, only one can gimp a stealth. You just had to use a bit of logic to understand what was implied.

It's not a huge buff at all. MoS as it is is a nerf to assassins vs old frontier, because archers are no longer free PA targets. It's actually an archer buff and an assassin nerf... (and I am ok with that).
MoS as a RA was a nerf to stealthers, so removing it is not a buff, it's just how it was before.

As I said in my previous post, this has always been a problem with the game, but has been massively exacerbated here due to weapon swapping commands and widespread scripting.
And you can't reapply poisons with each swing to compensate and have sick DPS.
1.5s dot ticks vs 4s...
Funny, nobody complained about the NS being too OP back in my time when they were much stronger than here.
Spec in AoM guys, it got buffed... And AHK work also on mincer/skalds and give them OP chants spam (hello Skald with 20% resist body). You can also weapon swap your weapons as a visi to profit from different LW procs as an example with /switch, it doesn't only benefit assassins.

Lheii destoyed me 2 days ago with her RR thane, without using IP. I have a video of a RR4 zerk destoying me because he has the right spec. Just yesterday I have a merc rr3 that got me to 20% without IP. It's not the assassins fault if you can't kill them, and if you don't want us to reply in every topic, maybe stop bringing assassin nerfs in all those topic lol.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:04 PM by Magesty
The Gish Gallop is in full swing.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:05 PM by Noashakra
Better than having bad arguments and no idea about how to balance classes

I never suggested immunity to poisons. [...] if you purge a round of poisons they shouldn't all be reapplied within 4-6 seconds.

And I am the one using fallacies...
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:09 PM by protege
I think Magesty needs to make an assassin and duel my rank 3 warrior =)
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:12 PM by Noashakra
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:09 PM
I think Magesty needs to make an assassin and duel my rank 3 warrior =)

It's kind of crazy. We got the /swtich, but the dual bonus vs shield had been nerfed (25% vs 50%) and poisons have been made that they can't reapply with each swing, and those people will tell you that assassins are overtuned on this server... Proof? They got a bad MoS for free that makes it harder to PA archers vs OF and change nothing in assassin vs assassin fights. There are even SL pots to find them that didn't exist during OF/NF/TOA/CATA.

In the mean time the good solo players will tell you assassins are fine. I even got my ass kicked by Skaripa a few days ago, melee scout! I will start asking for scout nerfs and thane nerf after how bad my ass was kicked by Lheii and her solo spec.

They live in an alternate reality. Apparently, we are the ones stealing every topic, when they ask for nerfs every 5mn...
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:34 PM by Magesty
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:05 PM
Better than having bad arguments and no idea about how to balance classes

I never suggested immunity to poisons. [...] if you purge a round of poisons they shouldn't all be reapplied within 4-6 seconds.

And I am the one using fallacies...

Yes, Noashakra, you are Gish Galloping. You are contradicting yourself and bringing multiple arguments to the table with each post that are not only disorganized, but are of questionable accuracy and relevance. If you want to engage in meaningful discussion I suggest taking the time to write a single coherent post that is as clear as you can make it and doesn't include anecdotes. You are also misrepresenting what others are saying. This forces someone "debating" with you to attempt to address not only your nearly incoherent arguments, but also the mischaracterization of their own instead of furthering what would be considered the main point of the conversation. This is a textbook example of Gish Galloping, and it isn't technically a fallacy in and of itself, but the individual arguments used are very likely to be fallacious.

In regards to the quoted portion of the text: An immunity would imply that a second assassin couldn't apply poisons on someone who has recently purged. Again, this is not the argument I am making. I am saying it should be more difficult for an assassin in a 1v1 to reapply poisons in the matter of 4-6 seconds. If a second assassin were to add after a purge, I see no reason why their poisons wouldn't be able to apply. I don't know if this is an issue with the language barrier, but immunity and what I'm suggesting are different things. Please be open to nuance.

Again, please take the time to try to understand the arguments others are making otherwise they will eventually just stop responding to you and then you aren't furthering your agenda in any meaningful way. We all want the game to thrive and be a good experience for everyone, and no one person holds a completely correct view on how everything should be implemented.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM by protege
Magesty wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:34 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:05 PM
Better than having bad arguments and no idea about how to balance classes

I never suggested immunity to poisons. [...] if you purge a round of poisons they shouldn't all be reapplied within 4-6 seconds.

And I am the one using fallacies...

Yes, Noashakra, you are Gish Galloping. You are contradicting yourself and bringing multiple arguments to the table with each post that are not only disorganized, but are of questionable accuracy and relevance. If you want to engage in meaningful discussion I suggest taking the time to write a single coherent post that is as clear as you can make it and doesn't include anecdotes. You are also misrepresenting what others are saying. This forces someone "debating" with you to attempt to address not only your nearly incoherent arguments, but also the mischaracterization of their own instead of furthering what would be considered the main point of the conversation. This is a textbook example of Gish Galloping, and it isn't technically a fallacy in and of itself, but the individual arguments used are very likely to be fallacious.

In regards to the quoted portion of the text: An immunity would imply that a second assassin couldn't apply poisons on someone who has recently purged. Again, this is not the argument I am making. I am saying it should be more difficult for an assassin in a 1v1 to reapply poisons in the matter of 4-6 seconds. If a second assassin were to add after a purge, I see no reason why their poisons wouldn't be able to apply. I don't know if this is an issue with the language barrier, but immunity and what I'm suggesting are different things. Please be open to nuance.

Again, please take the time to try to understand the arguments others are making otherwise they will eventually just stop responding to you and then you aren't furthering your agenda in any meaningful way. We all want the game to thrive and be a good experience for everyone, and no one person holds a completely correct view on how everything should be implemented.

And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:15 PM by Noashakra
If you want to go this way, you didn't say make it harder to reapply, you say shoudn't all be reapplied. It's a big difference in wording...


How it should be harder to reapply dude, defensive tanks are already the bane of the assassins. There is already the huge dual nerf penality (25vs50%) and parry isn't influence by dual. Block + MoB +parade + MoP +evade, how do you want to make it even harder!
"I am not saying there should be an immunity, but you should not be able to reapply your poisons in 6s" sorry, it sould a lot like some sort of immunity, you are playing on words.

Good solo player playing tanks have already little difficulty with me after the RR7 and you want to make it even easier? Don't worry I have a lot of footage with RR4 zerk, RR3/4 mecs, RR5 reavers killing me with little difficulty. Just go for the right spec and get better at playing.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:32 PM by Blitze
I really don’t think warriors(Hero/arms) were ever supposed to be targets of assassins.... and in my opinion the assa should lose unless the tank is either not 50, not templated or semi-afk.
(Which is exactly what happens when a poor heavy tank tries to comes across a solo caster).

Here I see plenty of warrs/hero’s/arms die 1v1 vs assa. Assas are strong here, no doubt.

A big plus to stealth is that you could avoid bad targets... Except there aren’t many bad targets (prior to reflex attack nerf my friar was avoided completely, it felt loads like old DoAC). Now my RR8 ass gets jumped plenty and when purge & IP are down i have really struggle (I am completely specced for solo, playing a class synonymous with beating down Assasins)

(I think shadowzerks got the huge LA nerf cos they could solo arms/hero no problem).

ALSO, I am not calling for an assa nerf, just think it should be looked at.... there are less and less visi soloers everyday, which is bad for the RvR ecosystem.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:40 PM by gotwqqd
An assassin whining about TANKS having an easy go with them when they themselves attack an enemy for <5 seconds and scamper off for the dots to finish em off.

How rich
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:43 PM by protege
Blitze wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:32 PM
I really don’t think warriors(Hero/arms) were ever supposed to be targets of assassins.... and in my opinion the assa should lose unless the tank is either not 50, not templated or semi-afk.
(Which is exactly what happens when a poor heavy tank tries to comes across a solo caster).

Here I see plenty of warrs/hero’s/arms die 1v1 vs assa. Assas are strong here, no doubt.

A big plus to stealth is that you could avoid bad targets... Except there aren’t many bad targets (prior to reflex attack nerf my friar was avoided completely, it felt loads like old DoAC). Now my RR8 ass gets jumped plenty and when purge & IP are down i have really struggle (I am completely specced for solo, playing a class synonymous with beating down Assasins)

(I think shadowzerks got the huge LA nerf cos they could solo arms/hero no problem).

ALSO, I am not calling for an assa nerf, just think it should be looked at.... there are less and less visi soloers everyday, which is bad for the RvR ecosystem.

What are your RA's / spec?

There was a rank3 friar that nearly killed my SB recently (he didnt use purge or IP)
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:43 PM by Noashakra
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:40 PM
An assassin whining about TANKS having an easy go with them when they themselves attack an enemy for <5 seconds and scamper off for the dots to finish em off.

How rich

You see, I am not complaining, I am stating facts. Tanks are stronger than assassins. I am not the one calling for a tank nerf. Where did I ever complain? LMAO.
Really RICH from you after all you said about me.

ALSO, I am not calling for an assa nerf, just think it should be looked at.... there are less and less visi soloers everyday, which is bad for the RvR ecosystem.

I wonder if it's the assassins, or the 8 mans running at 12pm near crau crushing all action, or the coastguarding of 3 small mans at the same time on bled. I am not even going to speak about beno.
People are forced to play stealth if they don't want to chain rel.
Thu 21 Jan 2021 6:52 PM by DJ2000
Stop derailing every topic with the same nonsense over and over.
Every Solo spec is > Non-Solo spec.
That's true for all Melee Classes. Unlike a Tank, an assassin only has 1 spec, only solo spec. Obviously fights with them as a non-solo spec are going to be tough.
There are plenty of Assassin topics you can go back and forth about this. So stay away from this one, will you?
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM by soremir
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:09 PM by Sepplord
A decent argument was made though and i don't think most here realized it or reflected on it. I also brushed it away in the past but the more i think about it i feel it is obvious.

Visi solo is hardmode in this server, primarily due to groups roaming and killing them a lot...but when we look at the remaining population of soloVisis basically all of them are Tanks

The stealther population has effectively completely killed off an archetypes solos and complains how the only thing left are tanks that have an advantage...
I mean, yeah, of course they have. If they didn't then those would all be stealthers too. If you get farmed by everything, stealthers and groups then what reason is left to even play?

Red is dead mentality is ofcourse also a good chunk responsible for few soloers around, but the evergrowing stealthpopulation itself is the reason the leftovers are all characters that have advantages VS stealthers

Personally i couldn't really care less about assassinpower. I can't even remember when i was last killed by one, as i don't run solo anymore. But it seems weird how the discussion seldom accounts for the fact how hard stealthers shred casters. Even If tanks killed stealthers as easily as stealthers kill casters, and caster kill tanks as easily...even then, stealthers would still have the upper hand because of their invisibility advantage.


PS: and imo this is all in topic of "encourage solo"...as it is partially why people are discouraged from soloing
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:23 PM by Noashakra
No assassins (at least on this topic) complained about solo spec tanks to too be strong or that they are the only solo targets. Nice strawman. Tanks are actually fun to fight.
Mages solo were always scarce, even on live. It's the fault of stealthers if canon glass classes don't solo now...
Mages are not fun to fight, most of the time it some kind of cheese with life drain, or easy kill if purge not up, so no thanks
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM by protege
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM by Freudinio
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM by protege
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:09 AM by Freudinio
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin

Congratulations.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:15 AM by protege
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:09 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin

Congratulations.

And I soloed on a vis before I even made the stealther.

Zerging stealthers ruin the solo game, not the solo ones.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:51 AM by Freudinio
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:15 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:09 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin

Congratulations.

And I soloed on a vis before I even made the stealther.

Zerging stealthers ruin the solo game, not the solo ones.

Meh. I gave up soloing on my reaver when I reached rr5 (I also have 4+ friends online nightly, so I do have the luxury of grouping at will, always something going on). And I can easily break down my fights:

1. Get jumped by a skald -> They figure out I'm a reaver -> They run off (This would be the vast majority of fighting skalds)
2. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is down -> I'm dead.
3. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is up -> It can still go both ways depending on the assassin -> if they feel they are losing -> Vanish (This is the vast majority of assassin fights as a visible).
4. I get jumped by rr5-6 stealther regardless of purge -> good fights -> if the assassin is losing -> vanish
5. I get jumped by lower rank assassins (this pretty much never happens) I win consistantly.

At rr5 I think I only had like.. 110? solo kills. Some get interrupted, most fights are never finished (sos, vanish). So I just gave up soloing.

So now, all I see is: Run to a dock, find Mcnasty. Run to another dock, find Xmnz (spelling?). Run to a third dock, find Griis. Run to a fourth dock, find Stealth Legends.

But nah. Keep thinking maintaning a 15% stealther population in frontiers at all times is viable.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 6:06 AM by protege
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:51 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:15 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:09 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin

Congratulations.

And I soloed on a vis before I even made the stealther.

Zerging stealthers ruin the solo game, not the solo ones.

Meh. I gave up soloing on my reaver when I reached rr5 (I also have 4+ friends online nightly, so I do have the luxury of grouping at will, always something going on). And I can easily break down my fights:

1. Get jumped by a skald -> They figure out I'm a reaver -> They run off (This would be the vast majority of fighting skalds)
2. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is down -> I'm dead.
3. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is up -> It can still go both ways depending on the assassin -> if they feel they are losing -> Vanish (This is the vast majority of assassin fights as a visible).
4. I get jumped by rr5-6 stealther regardless of purge -> good fights -> if the assassin is losing -> vanish
5. I get jumped by lower rank assassins (this pretty much never happens) I win consistantly.

At rr5 I think I only had like.. 110? solo kills. Some get interrupted, most fights are never finished (sos, vanish). So I just gave up soloing.

So now, all I see is: Run to a dock, find Mcnasty. Run to another dock, find Xmnz (spelling?). Run to a third dock, find Griis. Run to a fourth dock, find Stealth Legends.

But nah. Keep thinking maintaning a 15% stealther population in frontiers at all times is viable.

idk what you're doing wrong -- Yarna and Fayte's reaver beat me consistently when lower rank
Fri 22 Jan 2021 6:27 AM by Freudinio
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 6:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:51 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:15 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:09 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin

Congratulations.

And I soloed on a vis before I even made the stealther.

Zerging stealthers ruin the solo game, not the solo ones.

Meh. I gave up soloing on my reaver when I reached rr5 (I also have 4+ friends online nightly, so I do have the luxury of grouping at will, always something going on). And I can easily break down my fights:

1. Get jumped by a skald -> They figure out I'm a reaver -> They run off (This would be the vast majority of fighting skalds)
2. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is down -> I'm dead.
3. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is up -> It can still go both ways depending on the assassin -> if they feel they are losing -> Vanish (This is the vast majority of assassin fights as a visible).
4. I get jumped by rr5-6 stealther regardless of purge -> good fights -> if the assassin is losing -> vanish
5. I get jumped by lower rank assassins (this pretty much never happens) I win consistantly.

At rr5 I think I only had like.. 110? solo kills. Some get interrupted, most fights are never finished (sos, vanish). So I just gave up soloing.

So now, all I see is: Run to a dock, find Mcnasty. Run to another dock, find Xmnz (spelling?). Run to a third dock, find Griis. Run to a fourth dock, find Stealth Legends.

But nah. Keep thinking maintaning a 15% stealther population in frontiers at all times is viable.

idk what you're doing wrong -- Yarna and Fayte's reaver beat me consistently when lower rank

Idk what you're doing wrong then.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:00 AM by protege
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 6:27 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 6:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:51 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:15 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:09 AM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:06 AM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:00 AM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:52 PM
soremir wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 8:45 PM
protege wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 5:45 PM
And I am saying, 1v1 my warrior on an assassin of your choice and see how easy it is to reapply poisons vs. a solo specced tank.

And it was right here, that I knew we had reached peak Assassin God summoning. Their power. Impossible!

The God of disproving LOLNERFSTEALTHER noobs.

My challenge is still available to anyone! Make a stealther (I will allow you to borrow a template) and 1v1 one of my many tanks.

You won't. Bet.

This is such a braindead response.

Stealthers have effectively killed off the remaining solo visible game, with the exception of tanks and a handfull of others. As soon as you noticed this trend, you switched to soloing on a tank. This to me suggests you do not like being challenged and you definitely do not like competing and that's fine.

My favorite part of all this, is that this remains fine for you people, because you will do absolutely anything to maintain any edge the game gives you, in the lack of personal skill.

But as long as you're having fun, fuck everyone else. Amirite!?

I probably have more solo kills on a vis than you do -- just sayin

Congratulations.

And I soloed on a vis before I even made the stealther.

Zerging stealthers ruin the solo game, not the solo ones.

Meh. I gave up soloing on my reaver when I reached rr5 (I also have 4+ friends online nightly, so I do have the luxury of grouping at will, always something going on). And I can easily break down my fights:

1. Get jumped by a skald -> They figure out I'm a reaver -> They run off (This would be the vast majority of fighting skalds)
2. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is down -> I'm dead.
3. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is up -> It can still go both ways depending on the assassin -> if they feel they are losing -> Vanish (This is the vast majority of assassin fights as a visible).
4. I get jumped by rr5-6 stealther regardless of purge -> good fights -> if the assassin is losing -> vanish
5. I get jumped by lower rank assassins (this pretty much never happens) I win consistantly.

At rr5 I think I only had like.. 110? solo kills. Some get interrupted, most fights are never finished (sos, vanish). So I just gave up soloing.

So now, all I see is: Run to a dock, find Mcnasty. Run to another dock, find Xmnz (spelling?). Run to a third dock, find Griis. Run to a fourth dock, find Stealth Legends.

But nah. Keep thinking maintaning a 15% stealther population in frontiers at all times is viable.

idk what you're doing wrong -- Yarna and Fayte's reaver beat me consistently when lower rank

Idk what you're doing wrong then.

idk, perhaps all the stealthers you face are much better than me lmao.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:01 AM by Sepplord
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:23 PM
No assassins (at least on this topic) complained about solo spec tanks to too be strong or that they are the only solo targets. Nice strawman. Tanks are actually fun to fight.
Mages solo were always scarce, even on live. It's the fault of stealthers if canon glass classes don't solo now...
Mages are not fun to fight, most of the time it some kind of cheese with life drain, or easy kill if purge not up, so no thanks

It's not a strawman, you are really not reflecting on what i wrote.

stealther obliterate casters
but tanks don't obliterate stealth, they just have an advantage
+stealther have stealth and can choose their engagements

how is that logically balanced?
The argument that is constantly brought up is: "fight muh tank on your stealther, i'll show you we are weak" and that completely ignores that Tank VS stealth isn't nearly as onesided as casterVSstealth is.
Simirlarly how a few pages back you listed tons of "nerfs" to assassins, while completely ignoring all the buffs. It's a bad faith argumentation.

I don't think assassins need a huge nerf, a rework would probably be more sensible. Biggest issue imo (but that is also probably influence by natural bias) is that there is no effective way to flush out stealthercamps. Even if you know they are near
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:01 AM by krycek
I never understood why people made visi characters to solo on. Just seems like it would be very frustrating. On my live server, Igraine, there were very few. It was mostly stealthers that solo'd/duo'd and it was amazing. Kept me playing the game for years. I love hunting and fighting other stealthers. I can see the appeal in playing visi solo. Tanks in particular just make very good 1v1 classes. But I just don't see it being worth the frustration of getting ran over by larger numbers again and again. So kudos to those that keep running out there, I guess.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:53 AM by Noashakra
Mage with PD7+ are actually the worst thing to fight. Any mage with two form of CC just have to spec in the second quick cast, and they have chances vs stealthers...
All the mages with drain and a pet have good solo abilities (caba SM). I saw gotmagi on his mentalist destoying people 1vs1.
Most mages solo are scrubs who just do moc drain to win a fight or play necro/BD for single key action. Combine that with the Visi 4+ groups that run on everything and voilà.

You act like if it was better on live, when it wasn't... Mages were almost never running solo. But sure stealthers on this server killed the solo mage community not all the ministrels and skalds they have no chance against.
Stealthers are also responsible for the plague and world hunger.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:03 AM by Sepplord
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:53 AM
You act like if it was better on live, when it wasn't... Mages were almost never running solo. But sure stealthers on this server killed the solo mage community not all the ministrels and skalds they have no chance against.
Stealthers are also responsible for the plague and world hunger.

Yeah, surely the others are strawmanning and your arguments are all in good faith ops:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:19 AM by Noashakra
Were do you see a strawman, I made a joke because according to some people here everything is the stealthers fault.

Fact = almost no mage were playing solo on live at this patch level.
Fact = Mages in this game if they want to play in group, unless they are high rank and have PD, are glass canon because they are DPS machines, and don't spec in the second quick cast as a RA. Most mages don't want to respec to solo, so they don't go solo. Simple.

How is the stealther fault? I got my ass destoyed by a solo Theu the other day. Quick cast mez > purge > quick cast root, and he kited me to death. Again, you want to have your cake and eat it too. People want to be group spec and kill a 100% solo spec without changing their spec and RA, what a joke.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:34 AM by Tashkent
Sepplord wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:01 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 21 Jan 2021 9:23 PM
No assassins (at least on this topic) complained about solo spec tanks to too be strong or that they are the only solo targets. Nice strawman. Tanks are actually fun to fight.
Mages solo were always scarce, even on live. It's the fault of stealthers if canon glass classes don't solo now...
Mages are not fun to fight, most of the time it some kind of cheese with life drain, or easy kill if purge not up, so no thanks

It's not a strawman, you are really not reflecting on what i wrote.

stealther obliterate casters
but tanks don't obliterate stealth, they just have an advantage
[...]
Simirlarly how a few pages back you listed tons of "nerfs" to assassins, while completely ignoring all the buffs. It's a bad faith argumentation.
Stealthers don't obliterate casters, only group ra specced ones. That's a difference.

Second statement could go both ways. "Buffs" to assassins have been stated while ignoring the nerfs to certain mechanics.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:37 AM by Sepplord
the strawman is to compare it to live
as if live was perfect and everyone on this server is playing here because we just can't afford to play the perfect game on live
You also keep bringing up concentration as the solution, but neglect vanish. Which counters all long-CD RAs anyone uses on you.

Can the theurg chose to not fight you, when his concentration is down? Can you chose to not fight the theurg when your purge/vansih is down?

Noashakra wrote: How is the stealther fault?
The discussion should be about balancing, not finding someone at fault
Maybe that's the problem you are having and why you are so defensive
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:44 AM by Noashakra
Buff of assassins (and any dual class) on this server = 0.86 dual chance to swing per point instead of 0.68
downside = 25% defense bonus vs evade and shields vs 50% on live. The downside is huge and compensate vastly the left hand hit chance (unstyled damage)...

/Switch mechanics to make weapon swiper easier = nerf to poisons where you can't reapply with each swing. You could in theory reapply dots with each swings so every 1.2/2seconds, combined with the 50% defense bonus vs shields and evade, it was amazing DPS. It created a huge skill gap between good and bad players because of the mouse switch.

AoM buff that make it worth for every solo to take to counter poisons dots and viper. Class with resist chants can spam them without mana/endo and have 20% resist up all the time.

How can people think assassins have it better than on live at the same patch level?

The discussion should be about balancing, not finding someone at fault
Maybe that's the problem you are having and why you are so defensive

Lmao, when I say stealthers, I speak about the class.

You also keep bringing up concentration as the solution, but neglect vanish. Which counters all long-CD RAs anyone uses on you.
Vanish is up 100% of the time, it is known.
I always have SL pots and my mouse over the pot vs known vanishers.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:58 AM by evert
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:53 AM
or play necro/BD for single key action.



el oh el
Fri 22 Jan 2021 9:02 AM by Noashakra
evert wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 8:58 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 7:53 AM
or play necro/BD for single key action.



el oh el

And? I have styles backed up to different keys, I can send you my AHK file if you want I remember when people told the same to Tani and he showed his keyboard and the keys he was pressing
I use 10+ keys, not speaking about the 4 keys to move and straff. But nice try comparing that to standing and spamming drain with your BD
Fri 22 Jan 2021 9:15 AM by Sepplord
Noashakra wrote: Lmao, when I say stealthers, I speak about the class.
I wasn't referring to playerblaming. I also don't think the discussion should be about finding a class to blame.


You started a good list though, maybe we should put our bickering aside and together work on a complete list. My perception isn't perfect neither. I really don't know how it might end.
I'd seperate Buffs / Nerfs as it is hard to always find counterpoints and gauge if they actually cancel each other out. I will surely miss stuff, everyone is welcome to chime in and add. I doubt this will result in ending the discussion once and for all, but maybe i will give a few people a more realistic viewpoint on the situation.
I would also suggest to gauge the influence of changes in a second step after a more or less complete list has been done (for example AoM-buff is not only a nerf, it also helps assassins vs magicdmg...but i would agree that it hurts more than it helps)

Buffs:
    0.86 dual chance to swing per point instead of 0.68

    /Switch mechanics to make weapon swapping easier

    Class with resist chants can spam them without mana/endo and have 20% resist up all the time.

    Con-debuffs are applied before dmg

    No Truesight / MOS-detectionbonus / Stealthlore-itemcharges to reliably find stealthers

    Str/Con-debuff -> WS/con debuff

Nerfs:
    25% defense penetration vs evade and shields vs 50% on live.

    AoM buff

    HP increase (hurts bursty hit&run classes)

    DoT-poison reapplication dmg removed

    Potions that slighty increase detection radius

    con-debuffs value decreased 15%

*updated*
Fri 22 Jan 2021 9:25 AM by Noashakra
You forgot the Ws/constit = buff vs friars (doesn't help that much, a good friar will rip you to pieces but still)
Nerf of 15% of the constit part = damage nerf if you miss your PA/BS
Fri 22 Jan 2021 10:11 AM by Lollie
2.5 pages of on topic discussion, 6.5 pages of derailment. good work!
Fri 22 Jan 2021 10:21 AM by Noashakra
Lollie wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 10:11 AM
2.5 pages of on topic discussion, 6.5 pages of derailment. good work!

if only people would stop asking for stupid asn nerfs all the time on every topics...
Fri 22 Jan 2021 10:25 AM by Sepplord
yeah, i guess we got carried away a little...
Fri 22 Jan 2021 2:35 PM by soremir
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:51 AM
Meh. I gave up soloing on my reaver when I reached rr5 (I also have 4+ friends online nightly, so I do have the luxury of grouping at will, always something going on). And I can easily break down my fights:

1. Get jumped by a skald -> They figure out I'm a reaver -> They run off (This would be the vast majority of fighting skalds)
2. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is down -> I'm dead.
3. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is up -> It can still go both ways depending on the assassin -> if they feel they are losing -> Vanish (This is the vast majority of assassin fights as a visible).
4. I get jumped by rr5-6 stealther regardless of purge -> good fights -> if the assassin is losing -> vanish
5. I get jumped by lower rank assassins (this pretty much never happens) I win consistantly.

At rr5 I think I only had like.. 110? solo kills. Some get interrupted, most fights are never finished (sos, vanish). So I just gave up soloing.

So now, all I see is: Run to a dock, find Mcnasty. Run to another dock, find Xmnz (spelling?). Run to a third dock, find Griis. Run to a fourth dock, find Stealth Legends.

But nah. Keep thinking maintaning a 15% stealther population in frontiers at all times is viable.

This was the post that spoke to me. Let me preface this, I am not a solo god. Before I get flamed for not being a true soloer, I zerged a lot, afk tasked a lot, but also did spend a lot of time out there as a visi solo. Or at least I felt like I did. And I just dinged RR10 on my staff friar, and I kinda like that it felt that I was one of the highest RR staff friar still running around solo and getting kited to death on the regular, but I hung up my Soloing staff for a group spec this week.

I can only speak to my experience, but this post is it. Do all of the assassins that I fight vanish 1v1 all of the time. Certainly not. Many of the assassin gods here don't (but then again, they also had a good shot of killing me). But my honest estimation is that 90% of them do, and they don't even play until vanish is up. Stealth Lore pots are amazing, but I don't think I've had the success rate that some of you claim. Sometimes I guess right, and I really try to be thoughtful about where I think a stealther might go.

Skalds sos-ing was rarer for me, but was certainly a thing. But it's (almost) all stealthers out there. And they (almost) all vanish 1v1. I tried to keep a list of vanishers so I could add etc, but it became too long and honestly was basically everybody. Best case scenario was that the assassin wasn't playing super well, so I could get through the fight without using purge, and so when they vanished I still had it up.

This might sound like whining, and maybe it is. But it's just not fun to fight assassins in their current form. Get jumped -> fight hard -> vanish. But it seems like it is super fun to play as them. So everybody switched to them and the visi solo game died. I always thought about it that basically the Phoenix Assassin/Stealther population overfished and now the stock of your visi solo prey is gone. I loved the game when this stealther interaction happens a couple times a night. If you have a fight and they get away, that's fine if it's part of your experience and then you move onto other fights and interactions. But it's all there is now, so the fun is gone, and the fish are gone.

It's my 2 cents anyway. Some of y'all will surely disagree. As I said, I can only speak to my experience and give you my honest thought process. It is at least a good faith argument.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 3:21 PM by protege
soremir wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 2:35 PM
Freudinio wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 5:51 AM
Meh. I gave up soloing on my reaver when I reached rr5 (I also have 4+ friends online nightly, so I do have the luxury of grouping at will, always something going on). And I can easily break down my fights:

1. Get jumped by a skald -> They figure out I'm a reaver -> They run off (This would be the vast majority of fighting skalds)
2. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is down -> I'm dead.
3. I get jumped by an assassin between rr7-11 and purge is up -> It can still go both ways depending on the assassin -> if they feel they are losing -> Vanish (This is the vast majority of assassin fights as a visible).
4. I get jumped by rr5-6 stealther regardless of purge -> good fights -> if the assassin is losing -> vanish
5. I get jumped by lower rank assassins (this pretty much never happens) I win consistantly.

At rr5 I think I only had like.. 110? solo kills. Some get interrupted, most fights are never finished (sos, vanish). So I just gave up soloing.

So now, all I see is: Run to a dock, find Mcnasty. Run to another dock, find Xmnz (spelling?). Run to a third dock, find Griis. Run to a fourth dock, find Stealth Legends.

But nah. Keep thinking maintaning a 15% stealther population in frontiers at all times is viable.

This was the post that spoke to me. Let me preface this, I am not a solo god. Before I get flamed for not being a true soloer, I zerged a lot, afk tasked a lot, but also did spend a lot of time out there as a visi solo. Or at least I felt like I did. And I just dinged RR10 on my staff friar, and I kinda like that it felt that I was one of the highest RR staff friar still running around solo and getting kited to death on the regular, but I hung up my Soloing staff for a group spec this week.

I can only speak to my experience, but this post is it. Do all of the assassins that I fight vanish 1v1 all of the time. Certainly not. Many of the assassin gods here don't (but then again, they also had a good shot of killing me). But my honest estimation is that 90% of them do, and they don't even play until vanish is up. Stealth Lore pots are amazing, but I don't think I've had the success rate that some of you claim. Sometimes I guess right, and I really try to be thoughtful about where I think a stealther might go.

Skalds sos-ing was rarer for me, but was certainly a thing. But it's (almost) all stealthers out there. And they (almost) all vanish 1v1. I tried to keep a list of vanishers so I could add etc, but it became too long and honestly was basically everybody. Best case scenario was that the assassin wasn't playing super well, so I could get through the fight without using purge, and so when they vanished I still had it up.

This might sound like whining, and maybe it is. But it's just not fun to fight assassins in their current form. Get jumped -> fight hard -> vanish. But it seems like it is super fun to play as them. So everybody switched to them and the visi solo game died. I always thought about it that basically the Phoenix Assassin/Stealther population overfished and now the stock of your visi solo prey is gone. I loved the game when this stealther interaction happens a couple times a night. If you have a fight and they get away, that's fine if it's part of your experience and then you move onto other fights and interactions. But it's all there is now, so the fun is gone, and the fish are gone.

It's my 2 cents anyway. Some of y'all will surely disagree. As I said, I can only speak to my experience and give you my honest thought process. It is at least a good faith argument.

You shouldn’t be getting kited on a friar.. rear and side snare. If they manage to get away— cure disease / poison and heal to full health.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 3:33 PM by soremir
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 3:21 PM
You shouldn’t be getting kited on a friar.. rear and side snare. If they manage to get away— cure disease / poison and heal to full health.

Hahaha, I know how to play a Friar thanks. I meant by casters. But just as as a friar, you shouldn't be getting kited by anybody that you got into melee with, if you're kiting a friar, you shouldn't be letting them do this obviously.
Fri 22 Jan 2021 3:41 PM by protege
soremir wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 3:33 PM
protege wrote:
Fri 22 Jan 2021 3:21 PM
You shouldn’t be getting kited on a friar.. rear and side snare. If they manage to get away— cure disease / poison and heal to full health.

Hahaha, I know how to play a Friar thanks. I meant by casters. But just as as a friar, you shouldn't be getting kited by anybody that you got into melee with, if you're kiting a friar, you shouldn't be letting them do this obviously.

You run into many solo casters?
Fri 22 Jan 2021 4:53 PM by Gotmagi
I have a couple of hundred solo kills on my visi characters so I thought I'd add a bit to this discussion.

Magesty brings up a lot of valid points that I mostly agree with. Nerfing disease duration is a given and while it might be difficult to implement, old style bridges would help visi soloers for sure. Regarding assassin power, I dont believe assassins are straight up overpowered like many claim, although I do feel like the amount of magic dmg being done (some even with the triple dot madness) is too high. Having recently played a class with almost 50% parry rate vs. assassins (which is a lot of points invested from both spec pts and realm skill pts) I'd still get burned down quite fast from magic dmg alone. This makes it so assassins are plenty strong even if they miss their opener - a solution to this could be to nerf viper and give the stealth openers some sort of buff vs high abs targets.

The real reason for this "assassin problem" is their ability to farm high amounts of solo kills/realm points from a relatively safe position and at the same time being able to stand toe to toe with most visi classes (I have a rr9 visi class and I don't have 90% winrates vs equal or higher rank assassins, l2p I guess). Add the rampant "red is dead" mentality on this server and you can see why very few people solo on visi classes.

I really want more diversity in the solo game but I'm afraid it won't happen on this server due to the patch level, some classes are simply at such a disadvantage no matter how they spec/play. That's why people play assassins and skalds/minstrels. Speed of the realm pots would help somewhat (make it just a tad worse than caster speed).
Soloing on a caster is basically limited to what the very few solo casters did/do which is gank xpers for easy solo kills/rps. A big problem there being poor casting speed due to the crappy buffs so it's very easy for most to reach you in time or to simply run away. In a perfect scenario, in the right place, with the right ra's and against the right enemy a caster can be quite strong 1v1, sure, but those scenarios are super rare.

My idea to pump some life into soloing again would be to add some incentive for people to move away from keeps/bridges via doppelgangers/mobs with a small rp reward and perhaps some quest where you have to pick up certain materials scattered throughout EV/mazes and perhaps other areas aswell (think of the old box quest on live). The reward would be xp and/or a fair amount of feathers/dust. The /fairfight list is a cool idea but there's no special incentive to be on that list or to find other people on that list, maybe add some reward similar to the gvg reward could be an idea. Maybe it would even be possible to add how many fights someone on that list has won in a row and would therefore be worth a higher reward if killed, just a thought.

Some other changes I'd make: remove or change the /switch command (not likely to happen), implement some way to eliminate/nerf the shield/2h swap thingie (perhaps some penalty to block rate for 2-3s after you switch to shield after successfully swinging a 2hander) - this is a tricky one. I'm also not a fan of AHK being allowed.
Tue 9 Mar 2021 11:50 PM by Eckso
Magesty wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 4:32 PM
Eckso wrote:
Wed 20 Jan 2021 3:22 PM
Lol Magesty

When you have more play time on this server and solo game, we will listen to your opinion

-Exo

You're right Exo-- The break I took from Phoenix has almost completely erased any knowledge I had of DAoC mechanics acquired through nearly two decades and countless iterations of the game. Can I even form a coherent argument without grinding to RR10+ as a purely solo player on this iteration? How could I even begin to grasp the struggle of a tiny Lurikeen, weighed down by bags full of weapons, just trying to make it in the world? Surely, in my ignorance, I could never comprehend what you and other assassins have gone through and are continuing to go through. Let's be honest, I'm positively oozing with visible privilege, and it is my job to be silent and listen to you about your experiences as an assassin.

Maybe you could tell me your story and address my points to help clear things up for me?

I am sensing some sarcasm...
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