Old RAs: Change My Mind - Phoenix Freeshard

I know there are a lot of threads on this topic already, but I have yet to read one halfway decent argument for why we should hang on to these game breaking abilities. So, with that said, what gives?

***Tell me why you think Old RAs are a good idea.***

- I don't want to hear 'realm identity'
- I don't want to hear 'they're not that broken.'

Please, change my mind.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:42 AM by defiasbandit

Do you have a list of the new ras

Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:49 AM by depth

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:42 AM
Do you have a list of the new ras

https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities
Do you really need me to post that? This reeks of bait... but I am very familiar with them, ask away.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 2:00 AM by defiasbandit

depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:49 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:42 AM
Do you have a list of the new ras

https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities
Do you really need me to post that? This reeks of bait... but I am very familiar with them, ask away.

How were SoS, Group Purge, Ichor etc.. different with them. The new RAs turned 30 minute cds into 15. 15 minutes cds into 10minutes etc.. It was probably better that way, but it the old RA system made the realms more unique. I think the argument against new RAs some players make is that we don't have access to TOA stuff here.

30 minute purge timer sucks. Purge should be on a 15 minute timer. I think new RAs would give tanks too much of an advantage here, especially considering how many already get det9. Who knows though.
I think Group Purge is too strong. SoS is as well.

Best solution is to just tweak a few Old Ras here.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 2:54 AM by depth

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 2:00 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:49 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:42 AM
Do you have a list of the new ras

https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities
Do you really need me to post that? This reeks of bait... but I am very familiar with them, ask away.

How were SoS, Group Purge, Ichor etc.. different with them. The new RAs turned 30 minute cds into 15. 15 minutes cds into 10minutes etc.. It was probably better that way, but it the old RA system made the realms more unique. I think the argument against new RAs some players make is that we don't have access to TOA stuff here.

30 minute purge timer sucks. Purge should be on a 15 minute timer. I think new RAs would give tanks too much of an advantage here, especially considering how many already get det9. Who knows though.
I think Group Purge is too strong. SoS is as well.

Best solution is to just tweak a few Old Ras here.

There is no Group Purge in New RA - completely removed. SoS is very different with New RA - any offensive spell or action and you lose SoS, all realms have access, duration increases with further investment into the ability, you are CC immune during effect, but does not provide you with immunity timers if someone used CC on you during effect.

SoS is not what makes Albion - Albion. Unique classes, and the lore surrounding those classes and realms, is what makes Albion the realm that it is. Not a short sighted ability that was corrected at a future date by game developers. This is why I don't want the 'realm identity' defense being proposed here. It is not a valid argument, in my opinion. In addition to this, they added 'class-specific' realm rank 5 abilities - so to be fair, there are even more abilities that will make your realm feel like your realm if that is how you choose to view it. Some of these are very strong, some are not that impactful, but it is an interesting mix that adds a lot of layers to your groups ability pool.

Ichor - New RA has a 2 second uninterruptible cast time. during this time your character, if you are not moving, may cast other spells while Ichor is resolving. Ichor will also reset immunity timers to root. This is a nice change as it adds utility to the spell, you can Ichor a root immune target, then reroot it. As it is on Classic, it just feels like a cheeky opener to give your group a nice inc. I don't think it makes or breaks fights, but it will be a terrible opening vs. a PuG or group not equipped enough to recover.

Regarding the tank meta if they had access to Charge - I think they need this ability to help close the gap vs casters. Even without ToA speedwarps it's isn't an end all be all ability to add to tanks. You will be gaining a lot of new abilities to manage a charge tank. Druids/Healers now have BoF, a lot of the class-specific realm rank 5 abilities are defensive in nature and help with this as well. Casters will also be more potent with access to the new RAs as well, all in all it makes for a good mix - but light tanks will need this utility.

I tried my best to answer all your points, hope some of this was useful in any way

Thu 18 Oct 2018 3:08 AM by defiasbandit

depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 2:54 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 2:00 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 1:49 AM
https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities
Do you really need me to post that? This reeks of bait... but I am very familiar with them, ask away.

How were SoS, Group Purge, Ichor etc.. different with them. The new RAs turned 30 minute cds into 15. 15 minutes cds into 10minutes etc.. It was probably better that way, but it the old RA system made the realms more unique. I think the argument against new RAs some players make is that we don't have access to TOA stuff here.

30 minute purge timer sucks. Purge should be on a 15 minute timer. I think new RAs would give tanks too much of an advantage here, especially considering how many already get det9. Who knows though.
I think Group Purge is too strong. SoS is as well.

Best solution is to just tweak a few Old Ras here.

There is no Group Purge in New RA - completely removed. SoS is very different with New RA - any offensive spell or action and you lose SoS, all realms have access, duration increases with further investment into the ability, you are CC immune during effect, but does not provide you with immunity timers if someone used CC on you during effect.

SoS is not what makes Albion - Albion. Unique classes, and the lore surrounding those classes and realms, is what makes Albion the realm that it is. Not a short sighted ability that was corrected at a future date by game developers. This is why I don't want the 'realm identity' defense being proposed here. It is not a valid argument, in my opinion. In addition to this, they added 'class-specific' realm rank 5 abilities - so to be fair, there are even more abilities that will make your realm feel like your realm if that is how you choose to view it. Some of these are very strong, some are not that impactful, but it is an interesting mix that adds a lot of layers to your groups ability pool.

Ichor - New RA has a 2 second uninterruptible cast time. during this time your character, if you are not moving, may cast other spells while Ichor is resolving. Ichor will also reset immunity timers to root. This is a nice change as it adds utility to the spell, you can Ichor a root immune target, then reroot it. As it is on Classic, it just feels like a cheeky opener to give your group a nice inc. I don't think it makes or breaks fights, but it will be a terrible opening vs. a PuG or group not equipped enough to recover.

Regarding the tank meta if they had access to Charge - I think they need this ability to help close the gap vs casters. Even without ToA speedwarps it's isn't an end all be all ability to add to tanks. You will be gaining a lot of new abilities to manage a charge tank. Druids/Healers now have BoF, a lot of the class-specific realm rank 5 abilities are defensive in nature and help with this as well. Casters will also be more potent with access to the new RAs as well, all in all it makes for a good mix - but light tanks will need this utility.

I tried my best to answer all your points, hope some of this was useful in any way

I think lower timers on stuff like Purge is good. I think 30 minuite timers are lame. Nerfing Group Purge SoS are good, but that other stuff no thank you. Im convinced it would be a mess here with full new ra.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 3:36 AM by depth

I would be very happy if that change was made. A total step in the right direction. The problem with Old RAs doesn't stop at SoS, GP and Ichor though. Those RAs just get the most publicity via QQ. Classic daoc is riddled with imbalances, class imbalances and RA imbalances. There are many strong RAs that fly under the radar of QQ but I see no need for them to be realm specific, or even in the game in extreme circumstances. Abilities that I am describing for example could be TWF, Avoid Pain, Sever the Tether, ST, PR.... etc.

New RA helps even the playing field (realms AND classes) more than Old RA, that is what I am really trying to stress here. The difference between realms/classes does not have to be sacrificed when classes and lore already accomplish a unique feel. If you want to restore integrity to RvR the RA system will have to be changed. I'm not saying that New RA is the greatest system possible, it's just a better system than the one we have. I do not think minor adjustments is the cure all to a problem much larger than 3 abilities, albeit a step in the right direction. I definitely think New RA would be an easier starting point for the staff to start making 'Phoenix specific' adjustments to.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 3:56 AM by depth

Just a small example of what we're talking about is to take a look at the Det and MoS changes that we have currently. Phoenix did a great thing adding Det to Hybrids, suddenly there are Reavers and Thanes running around. No, they are not insta invites into your 8man, but are they playable in the hands of a competent player now? I'd say they are.

The MoS change that they are working out right now has got to be great for stealthers. Truesight and See Hidden have got to go if you want a more balanced and interesting stealther game. I could be wrong, but I don' think anyone is saying that there Nightshade just doesn't feel like a Nightshade to them anymore.

Now, both of these abilities the Phoenix staff applied a little bit of a Livelike touch to, and things are beginning to look better for us out in the Frontiers. At least a step in the right direction, which is all we should ask from the staff. Now if we expand on these two abilities, to what New RA offers, you get a much more balanced and playable RvR experience, on a much larger scale.

For laughs check out Ichor of the Pwn by MrFleshcutter on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St65jLeVxqU

It's pretty much a clinic on how most fights continue after being clump Ichor'd in classic haha.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 4:00 AM by defiasbandit

depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 3:56 AM
Just a small example of what we're talking about is to take a look at the Det and MoS changes that we have currently. Phoenix did a great thing adding Det to Hybrids, suddenly there are Reavers and Thanes running around. No, they are not insta invites into your 8man, but are they playable in the hands of a competent player now? I'd say they are.

The MoS change that they are working out right now has got to be great for stealthers. Truesight and See Hidden have got to go if you want a more balanced and interesting stealther game. I could be wrong, but I don' think anyone is saying that there Nightshade just doesn't feel like a Nightshade to them anymore.

Now, both of these abilities the Phoenix staff applied a little bit of a Livelike touch to, and things are beginning to look better for us out in the Frontiers. At least a step in the right direction, which is all we should ask from the staff. Now if we expand on these two abilities, to what New RA offers, you get a much more balanced and playable RvR experience, on a much larger scale.

For laughs check out Ichor of the Pwn by MrFleshcutter on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St65jLeVxqU

It's pretty much a clinic on how most fights continue after being clump Ichor'd in classic haha.

Yeah I mean Ichor, SoS, and GP are insane everyone knows.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 6:39 AM by Druth

NF RA's favours high RR.

With OF RA's you can fight a high RR group/soloers and win because your one RA is up, but their/his (her) are down.
This is not the case for NF RA's, here charge/purge whatever will be up every fight, and the 15 min timed ones most of the time.

I like the idea of NF RA's, but despite you saying not to bring it up I do want people to keep in mind the "charm" of variety in OF RA's.
I mean, we celebrate realm being different (insta amnesia, insta AE mez, bolt range mez, theurg pets, etc etc etc).

But at the end of the day, I do think NF RA's were a better (read: balanced) design.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 6:48 AM by Druth

And btw, bad title when it's clear you wont change your mind anyway, just saying

Fri 19 Oct 2018 8:24 AM by Sei

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 6:39 AM
NF RA's favours high RR.

With OF RA's you can fight a high RR group/soloers and win because your one RA is up, but their/his (her) are down.
This is not the case for NF RA's, here charge/purge whatever will be up every fight, and the 15 min timed ones most of the time.

I like the idea of NF RA's, but despite you saying not to bring it up I do want people to keep in mind the "charm" of variety in OF RA's.
I mean, we celebrate realm being different (insta amnesia, insta AE mez, bolt range mez, theurg pets, etc etc etc).

But at the end of the day, I do think NF RA's were a better (read: balanced) design.

I disagree with your first point

1) Winning because RA are up enemies down IS absolutely a shit game design, which is also op point
2) the impact of active RA IS FAR Lower with New RA than with old RA. Reason IS : active cost more so you have lesss passive boost, active are nerfed (SOS cut with offensive move, moc is 75% instead of 100% for this reason nearly( for this reason good players where never taking moc on offensive mage unless you are very hr to compensate. My point here IS that it is far easier to Handle the RA dump with New RA that it is now.

3) the RA ppl QQ about the most is SOS, i m fine with ichor, melody and grp purge , or PR that nobody talk about

. Alb would still be incredible strong even if you nerf sos

Fri 19 Oct 2018 9:01 AM by Druth

Sei wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 8:24 AM
I disagree with your first point

1) Winning because RA are up enemies down IS absolutely a shit game design, which is also op point
2) the impact of active RA IS FAR Lower with New RA than with old RA. Reason IS : active cost more so you have lesss passive boost, active are nerfed (SOS cut with offensive move, moc is 75% instead of 100% for this reason nearly( for this reason good players where never taking moc on offensive mage unless you are very hr to compensate. My point here IS that it is far easier to Handle the RA dump with New RA that it is now.

3) the RA ppl QQ about the most is SOS, i m fine with ichor, melody and grp purge , or PR that nobody talk about . Alb would still be incredible strong even if you nerf sos

1) I agree to some degree, but so is not having to restrain yourself at all. When I left Live NF RA's was all about dumping them every fight. I mean my valk (RR11) had charge up again after 1 minute (and 15 secs) and purge every 5 mins. Vs. a RR5 they were mince-meat every single fight, did not matter in any way how well they played, I would annihilate them (granted, Valks would do that to most anyway).
In OF a RR11 with all toys up will also destroy anyone, but when they are down he can be killed by a RR5 with toys up.
2) Errr... what? Purge 2 cost 10 points, and is up every 15 mins. That sounds cheaper/better than OF purge to me. And Charge alone is such a broken RA on a server without BodyGuard and other ToA stuff to survive tank assist. We already have the strongest Hib/Mid groups running 3+ melee, we sure we also want them to be CC immune for the first 15 secs in the fight and at speed3? That is unless you want to the Live version of NF RA's, where Light Tanks dont get it as RA (and I assume you also dont want to give it free like on Live).
Because Charge on light tanks would be death to any trying to setup caster groups. And Albs could just pack up any hopes of running sorc/theurg/caba.

3) I think we land at the problem, you don't like SoS. I personally would not mind 30 sec SoS on a 15 min timer, mez immunity that lasts untill you take offensive actions. The main thing for albs is that they can escape from the insta aoe mez on every inc, and kite back so they can land CC as well.

And I don't understand how you can be fine with GP, unless you play Hib, because although it might not be as "visually" obvious as SoS, it's just as broken, and all Hib groups having 2 of them makes it even more broken.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 10:14 AM by relvinian

IMO, what needs to be done is to complete all the classes and make them functional, including pets, which have a number of issues.

After that the stuff can be adjusted here and there for balance.

There will need to be a balance fix or two

Fri 19 Oct 2018 11:54 AM by Sei

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 9:01 AM
Sei wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 8:24 AM
I disagree with your first point

1) Winning because RA are up enemies down IS absolutely a shit game design, which is also op point
2) the impact of active RA IS FAR Lower with New RA than with old RA. Reason IS : active cost more so you have lesss passive boost, active are nerfed (SOS cut with offensive move, moc is 75% instead of 100% for this reason nearly( for this reason good players where never taking moc on offensive mage unless you are very hr to compensate. My point here IS that it is far easier to Handle the RA dump with New RA that it is now.

3) the RA ppl QQ about the most is SOS, i m fine with ichor, melody and grp purge , or PR that nobody talk about . Alb would still be incredible strong even if you nerf sos

1) I agree to some degree, but so is not having to restrain yourself at all. When I left Live NF RA's was all about dumping them every fight. I mean my valk (RR11) had charge up again after 1 minute (and 15 secs) and purge every 5 mins. Vs. a RR5 they were mince-meat every single fight, did not matter in any way how well they played, I would annihilate them (granted, Valks would do that to most anyway).
In OF a RR11 with all toys up will also destroy anyone, but when they are down he can be killed by a RR5 with toys up.
2) Errr... what? Purge 2 cost 10 points, and is up every 15 mins. That sounds cheaper/better than OF purge to me. And Charge alone is such a broken RA on a server without BodyGuard and other ToA stuff to survive tank assist. We already have the strongest Hib/Mid groups running 3+ melee, we sure we also want them to be CC immune for the first 15 secs in the fight and at speed3? That is unless you want to the Live version of NF RA's, where Light Tanks dont get it as RA (and I assume you also dont want to give it free like on Live).
Because Charge on light tanks would be death to any trying to setup caster groups. And Albs could just pack up any hopes of running sorc/theurg/caba.

3) I think we land at the problem, you don't like SoS. I personally would not mind 30 sec SoS on a 15 min timer, mez immunity that lasts untill you take offensive actions. The main thing for albs is that they can escape from the insta aoe mez on every inc, and kite back so they can land CC as well.

And I don't understand how you can be fine with GP, unless you play Hib, because although it might not be as "visually" obvious as SoS

I agree with you that charge would be op, my point IS rather to keep current Ra table but changing active to their NF version. You are talking about purge Alone as counter exemple but i Hope you will understand that purge as exactly the same impact on a given fight weither it IS old or New version at least LV2. I still insist that active with NF have lesss impact on a given fight for the reasons i have
already

I play alb and mid and i really see how dominating alb is, how easy it is to play, alb grp have generally the best set of tools to Handle every situation you can have. Alb is just the best realm atm and you have fuking no issue to Handle insta mezz when you can incant your at 1750 and have Can/minst going on the mezzer. Otherwise i m waiting for your PAC/Bard video showing us how insta mezz are against decent alb grp

I m absolutely fine with GP cause it IS a RA that rather help in bad Plays ( being strike mezz cause ppl dont Split) . But you still have plenty of tools to Handle a grp that purge a strike mezz

Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:47 AM by depth

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 6:48 AM
And btw, bad title when it's clear you wont change your mind anyway, just saying

It's possible to change my mind here. But I'd have to hear a lot of changes in the NF RA direction. 3 servers in a row with classic RA is starting to wear me down. The same RA qq when balancing should clearly be implemented and prioritized.

Mon 22 Oct 2018 10:29 AM by Druth

depth wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:47 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 6:48 AM
And btw, bad title when it's clear you wont change your mind anyway, just saying

It's possible to change my mind here. But I'd have to hear a lot of changes in the NF RA direction. 3 servers in a row with classic RA is starting to wear me down. The same RA qq when balancing should clearly be implemented and prioritized.

Considering you only present the bad sides of OF RA and only the good of NF RA, I think it's safe to say you wont be swayed to a different view.

I like NF RA's, but that you in any way think Charge is not broken (without ToA) make me pretty certain you are one sided in your point of view.

Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:50 PM by defiasbandit

Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 10:29 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:47 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 6:48 AM
And btw, bad title when it's clear you wont change your mind anyway, just saying

It's possible to change my mind here. But I'd have to hear a lot of changes in the NF RA direction. 3 servers in a row with classic RA is starting to wear me down. The same RA qq when balancing should clearly be implemented and prioritized.

Considering you only present the bad sides of OF RA and only the good of NF RA, I think it's safe to say you wont be swayed to a different view.

I like NF RA's, but that you in any way think Charge is not broken (without ToA) make me pretty certain you are one sided in your point of view.

Charge would be so broken on this server. Just imagine. Purge should be on 15 minute timer though.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:24 AM by depth

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:50 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 10:29 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:47 AM
It's possible to change my mind here. But I'd have to hear a lot of changes in the NF RA direction. 3 servers in a row with classic RA is starting to wear me down. The same RA qq when balancing should clearly be implemented and prioritized.

Considering you only present the bad sides of OF RA and only the good of NF RA, I think it's safe to say you wont be swayed to a different view.

I like NF RA's, but that you in any way think Charge is not broken (without ToA) make me pretty certain you are one sided in your point of view.

Charge would be so broken on this server. Just imagine. Purge should be on 15 minute timer though.

You're supposed to tell me what the good side of Old RA is - I'm not really seeing anything noteworthy here that NF RA doesn't do better.

Regarding charge, it really would not be insane here. The entirety of Uth1 there was charge and no bodyguard, big deal. I could see mid pugs possibly being more successful vs other poopy pugs, occasionally. Isn't that always the case when a pug is melee vs casters though? That's not the abilities fault that the group receiving a charged tank doesn't know how to handle a very short timer ability. And as I already mentioned, everyone will have access to more defensive natured passives and/or abilities. charge is necessity for tanks to have. Remember we're not talking about just bringing in Charge to Classic RA, we're talking about switching everything to New RA. If you zoom in on one ability, sure, it looks like it would be OP given the current RA settings.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:30 AM by defiasbandit

depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:24 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 4:50 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Oct 2018 10:29 AM
Considering you only present the bad sides of OF RA and only the good of NF RA, I think it's safe to say you wont be swayed to a different view.

I like NF RA's, but that you in any way think Charge is not broken (without ToA) make me pretty certain you are one sided in your point of view.

Charge would be so broken on this server. Just imagine. Purge should be on 15 minute timer though.

You're supposed to tell me what the good side of Old RA is - I'm not really seeing anything noteworthy here that NF RA doesn't do better.

Regarding charge, it really would not be insane here. The entirety of Uth1 there was charge and no bodyguard, big deal. I could see mid pugs possibly being more successful vs other poopy pugs, occasionally. Isn't that always the case when a pug is melee vs casters though? That's not the abilities fault that the group receiving a charged tank doesn't know how to handle a very short timer ability. And as I already mentioned, everyone will have access to more defensive natured passives and/or abilities. charge is necessity for tanks to have. Remember we're not talking about just bringing in Charge to Classic RA, we're talking about switching everything to New RA. If you zoom in on one ability, sure, it looks like it would be OP given the current RA settings.

You are clueless if you think charge has a place on this server. Just stop with this thread.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 7:02 AM by Druth

depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:24 AM
You're supposed to tell me what the good side of Old RA is - I'm not really seeing anything noteworthy here that NF RA doesn't do better.

Regarding charge, it really would not be insane here. The entirety of Uth1 there was charge and no bodyguard, big deal. I could see mid pugs possibly being more successful vs other poopy pugs, occasionally. Isn't that always the case when a pug is melee vs casters though? That's not the abilities fault that the group receiving a charged tank doesn't know how to handle a very short timer ability. And as I already mentioned, everyone will have access to more defensive natured passives and/or abilities. charge is necessity for tanks to have. Remember we're not talking about just bringing in Charge to Classic RA, we're talking about switching everything to New RA. If you zoom in on one ability, sure, it looks like it would be OP given the current RA settings.

People have tried, but you disregard it. Again, you don't want to be persuaded you want to shoot down people's arguments. Your thread-title is bait.
I'm ambivalent towards OF/NF, so I don't care about your agenda, I do think it's one of the lowest forms of argument though.

My main is a tank (hybrid) would love charge, but damn that RA is OP.

Uth 1.0 evolved a lot since it's launch, and tanks were dominating there.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 5:55 PM by depth

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 7:02 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:24 AM
You're supposed to tell me what the good side of Old RA is - I'm not really seeing anything noteworthy here that NF RA doesn't do better.

Regarding charge, it really would not be insane here. The entirety of Uth1 there was charge and no bodyguard, big deal. I could see mid pugs possibly being more successful vs other poopy pugs, occasionally. Isn't that always the case when a pug is melee vs casters though? That's not the abilities fault that the group receiving a charged tank doesn't know how to handle a very short timer ability. And as I already mentioned, everyone will have access to more defensive natured passives and/or abilities. charge is necessity for tanks to have. Remember we're not talking about just bringing in Charge to Classic RA, we're talking about switching everything to New RA. If you zoom in on one ability, sure, it looks like it would be OP given the current RA settings.

People have tried, but you disregard it. Again, you don't want to be persuaded you want to shoot down people's arguments. Your thread-title is bait.
I'm ambivalent towards OF/NF, so I don't care about your agenda, I do think it's one of the lowest forms of argument though.

My main is a tank (hybrid) would love charge, but damn that RA is OP.

Uth 1.0 evolved a lot since it's launch, and tanks were dominating there.

That's fine we can agree to disagree here. I guess I really just dont understand the Charge agrument as it is just another part of the game. Its in basically every other form of daoc outside of Phoenix, it really just seems natural to me at this point.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:05 PM by defiasbandit

depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 5:55 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 7:02 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 2:24 AM
You're supposed to tell me what the good side of Old RA is - I'm not really seeing anything noteworthy here that NF RA doesn't do better.

Regarding charge, it really would not be insane here. The entirety of Uth1 there was charge and no bodyguard, big deal. I could see mid pugs possibly being more successful vs other poopy pugs, occasionally. Isn't that always the case when a pug is melee vs casters though? That's not the abilities fault that the group receiving a charged tank doesn't know how to handle a very short timer ability. And as I already mentioned, everyone will have access to more defensive natured passives and/or abilities. charge is necessity for tanks to have. Remember we're not talking about just bringing in Charge to Classic RA, we're talking about switching everything to New RA. If you zoom in on one ability, sure, it looks like it would be OP given the current RA settings.

People have tried, but you disregard it. Again, you don't want to be persuaded you want to shoot down people's arguments. Your thread-title is bait.
I'm ambivalent towards OF/NF, so I don't care about your agenda, I do think it's one of the lowest forms of argument though.

My main is a tank (hybrid) would love charge, but damn that RA is OP.

Uth 1.0 evolved a lot since it's launch, and tanks were dominating there.

That's fine we can agree to disagree here. I guess I really just dont understand the Charge agrument as it is just another part of the game. Its in basically every other form of daoc outside of Phoenix, it really just seems natural to me at this point.

You dont understand anything about rvr then.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:15 PM by depth

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:05 PM
depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 5:55 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 7:02 AM
People have tried, but you disregard it. Again, you don't want to be persuaded you want to shoot down people's arguments. Your thread-title is bait.
I'm ambivalent towards OF/NF, so I don't care about your agenda, I do think it's one of the lowest forms of argument though.

My main is a tank (hybrid) would love charge, but damn that RA is OP.

Uth 1.0 evolved a lot since it's launch, and tanks were dominating there.

That's fine we can agree to disagree here. I guess I really just dont understand the Charge agrument as it is just another part of the game. Its in basically every other form of daoc outside of Phoenix, it really just seems natural to me at this point.

You dont understand anything about rvr then.

Sigh. Dont understand why that comment is at all relevant here. You are grasping at low hanging fruit (charge) in a RA system that does so much more to balance RAs. Use SoS if the charge is out of control. Use your newly acquired BoF. Use any number of class rank 5 abilities to escape the situation. Dont get folded by charge, the same way you wouldn't let a moc caster T off on your group.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:17 PM by defiasbandit

There are tons of issues with rvr on this sever. New ra wont fix them. Im not say of is perfect, a lot are pretty dumb. Id focus more on the biggwr issues that plague rvr here.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:32 PM by depth

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:17 PM
There are tons of issues with rvr on this sever. New ra wont fix them. Im not say of is perfect, a lot are pretty dumb. Id focus more on the biggwr issues that plague rvr here.

Bigger issues with RvR than the RA system? Please do explain.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 8:18 PM by defiasbandit

depth wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:32 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Oct 2018 6:17 PM
There are tons of issues with rvr on this sever. New ra wont fix them. Im not say of is perfect, a lot are pretty dumb. Id focus more on the biggwr issues that plague rvr here.

Bigger issues with RvR than the RA system? Please do explain.

Depth I dont think old ra are great. 30 minute timers suck.

Tue 23 Oct 2018 11:58 PM by Takii

No offense dude but you're not in a position to discuss new RAs vs Old RAs when you have never played this game with new RAs.