Introducing the Relic Point System

There is lots of talk about what to do with relics.

I don't think +10% damage bonuses are what we need here on Phoenix. We can come up with something better.

What if there was a Relic Point System. Allow me to explain. It is reasonable to implement yet slightly confusing so bare with me.

Each realm is vying to reach a certain number of total relic points. Capturing an enemy relic could reward Relic Points based on how long the enemy relic is held.

So let's say a realm captures and holds an enemy relic for one day. The entire realm would accumulate 50 points for capturing and 100 points for holding the enemy relic. Relic points would accumulate based on how long and how many enemy relics you hold and capture.

There would be an Underdog Bonus. When a realm that has less total relic points holds and captures enemy relics, they earn bonus relic points. So let's say one realm is ahead 1500 total relic points, then the losing realm would earn 200 instead of 100 relic points per day for their realm for recapturing and holding an enemy relic. This way a comeback mechanic exists for the underdog realms. The smaller the relic point gap between the realms the lower the bonus relic point gain would be. So if your realm's relic point total is well behind that of an enemy realm, by recapturing and holding enemy relics you could help narrow the gap in a short amount of time.

Relic points would serve as a currency to buy cosmetic items. For example, if your realm earns 1,000 relic points anyone on your realm can use those points towards special cosmetics such as reskins, effects, dyes, housing items etc..

It would be a point system where eventually one realm would earn enough relic points to declare Realm War Victory. The relic points would reset once one realm has reached the Relic Total Point Goal. it could be 20,000, 30,000, or whatever total is necessary. The winning realm could earn a unique cosmetic reward, a statue in their capital city, or even access to a realm only event such as an enemy realm invasion, arena, or PvE loot encounter.

A system like this accomplishes a lot. It finally allows for a Realm to defeat the other realms in Dark Age of Camelot, while also giving realmwide cosmetic bonuses for capturing and holding relics.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:48 PM by Armsmancer

Some people won't care about cosmetics and if you remove the 5% bonuses then you're actually taking a loss here with a big ? as what the gain would actually be. At best you'd want to keep this in and build off of the current bonuses, not remove it and replace it with a statue and a funny hat.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:50 PM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:48 PM
Some people won't care about cosmetics and if you remove the 5% bonuses then you're actually taking a loss here with a big ? as what the gain would actually be. At best you'd want to keep this in and build off of the current bonuses, not remove it and replace it with a statue and a funny hat.

Cosmetics matter a lot to many players. If i could wear a bandana mask on my character I would sleepover at my realm's relic keeps. Imbalanced RvR isn't what we want. When one realm has a 30% damage bonus in RvR it just drives players away from the game or forces them to join the winning realm. There are better alternatives than that, which don't vastly disrupt the RvR balance.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:01 AM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:50 PM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:48 PM
Some people won't care about cosmetics and if you remove the 5% bonuses then you're actually taking a loss here with a big ? as what the gain would actually be. At best you'd want to keep this in and build off of the current bonuses, not remove it and replace it with a statue and a funny hat.

Cosmetics matter a lot to many players. If i could wear a bandana mask on my character I would sleepover at my realm's relic keeps. Imbalanced RvR isn't what we want. When one realm has a 30% damage bonus in RvR it just drives players away from the game or forces them to join the winning realm. There are better alternatives than that, which don't vastly disrupt the RvR balance.

How many players does it matter to, and is it more to cover the loss of a realm wide 5% or 10% loss of dps? Have fun showing that, we'll wait for your first exhibit A.

RVR doesn't get imba if because relics give 30% because if you saw a log of all the servers ever who had 30% bonuses they weren't some long lasting thing aside from a hugely lopsided server back on live before they went Ywain mode. The given you are totally missing is this mechanic is already in the game, and has been for 17 years, and the burden is not on us but on you to show that some vast number of people just stop playing once one realm dominates RVR. This is the same mathematical fallacy as the 1% vs 99%. I could sell my house and car and for that tax year I'm in the 1%. It isn't some every day, every week, every year thing. Dominant realms rise and fall all the time because of popularity, guild rerolls to underdog realm, etc. It isn't static, its fluid, so stop making chisellled-in-stone declarations about things that change every week but trying to make serious changes based on a snapshot like for 2 days a realm had all the relics.

Stop trying to tinker with the things that actually mattered in DAOC like relic bonuses. You posit that there's just some huge army of people ready to get bandit masks and shiny boots or something and you are willing to risk destroying a major incentive like relic bonuses and holding and defending them always brought to the game, all because of your cosmetic "hunch" just please stop trying to remove things you are good at coming up with ideas but the problem is you are trying to remove things that are a part of this game and I for one would not play here if the only bonuses relics brought was a funny feathered hat.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:05 AM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:01 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:50 PM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:48 PM
Some people won't care about cosmetics and if you remove the 5% bonuses then you're actually taking a loss here with a big ? as what the gain would actually be. At best you'd want to keep this in and build off of the current bonuses, not remove it and replace it with a statue and a funny hat.

Cosmetics matter a lot to many players. If i could wear a bandana mask on my character I would sleepover at my realm's relic keeps. Imbalanced RvR isn't what we want. When one realm has a 30% damage bonus in RvR it just drives players away from the game or forces them to join the winning realm. There are better alternatives than that, which don't vastly disrupt the RvR balance.

How many players does it matter to, and is it more to cover the loss of a realm wide 5% or 10% loss of dps? Have fun showing that, we'll wait for your first exhibit A.

RVR doesn't get imba if because relics give 30% because if you saw a log of all the servers ever who had 30% bonuses they weren't some long lasting thing aside from a hugely lopsided server back on live before they went Ywain mode. The given you are totally missing is this mechanic is already in the game, and has been for 17 years, and the burden is not on us but on you to show that some vast number of people just stop playing once one realm dominates RVR. This is the same mathematical fallacy as the 1% vs 99%. I could sell my house and car and for that tax year I'm in the 1%. It isn't some every day, every week, every year thing.

Stop trying to tinker with the things that actually mattered in DAOC like relic bonuses. You posit that there's just some huge army of people ready to get bandit masks and shiny boots or something and you are willing to risk destroying a major incentive like relic bonuses and holding and defending them always brought to the game, all because of your cosmetic "hunch" just please stop trying to remove things you are good at coming up with ideas but the problem is you are trying to remove things that are a part of this game and I for one would not play here if the only bonuses relics brought was a funny feathered hat.

Have you heard of uthgard. One realm owns all the relics and has crazy bonuses and the server is dead. We don't need that here. It's blatant imbalance. Putting individual players at a huge disadvantage due to the failure of their entire realm is just a mistake.

The developers themselves have stated they are unsure of what relic bonus system to use. That is why I proposed this. You can offer other rewards than cosmetics to earn and purchase using relic points. I suggested special event access as well. There should be a win condition on the server and it can happen through Relics. Maybe it can be 5% bonus to feathers as well. I am just not a fan of the damage stacking.

The game Mythic designed 20 years ago is long dead. This is Phoenix. This is DAOC Reborn. Having even 10% damage bonus let alone 30% in RvR causes lots of imbalances. We don't need that here. Better to keep the game more skillful.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:15 AM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:05 AM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:01 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 11:50 PM
Cosmetics matter a lot to many players. If i could wear a bandana mask on my character I would sleepover at my realm's relic keeps. Imbalanced RvR isn't what we want. When one realm has a 30% damage bonus in RvR it just drives players away from the game or forces them to join the winning realm. There are better alternatives than that, which don't vastly disrupt the RvR balance.

How many players does it matter to, and is it more to cover the loss of a realm wide 5% or 10% loss of dps? Have fun showing that, we'll wait for your first exhibit A.

RVR doesn't get imba if because relics give 30% because if you saw a log of all the servers ever who had 30% bonuses they weren't some long lasting thing aside from a hugely lopsided server back on live before they went Ywain mode. The given you are totally missing is this mechanic is already in the game, and has been for 17 years, and the burden is not on us but on you to show that some vast number of people just stop playing once one realm dominates RVR. This is the same mathematical fallacy as the 1% vs 99%. I could sell my house and car and for that tax year I'm in the 1%. It isn't some every day, every week, every year thing.

Stop trying to tinker with the things that actually mattered in DAOC like relic bonuses. You posit that there's just some huge army of people ready to get bandit masks and shiny boots or something and you are willing to risk destroying a major incentive like relic bonuses and holding and defending them always brought to the game, all because of your cosmetic "hunch" just please stop trying to remove things you are good at coming up with ideas but the problem is you are trying to remove things that are a part of this game and I for one would not play here if the only bonuses relics brought was a funny feathered hat.

Have you heard of uthgard. One realm owns all the relics and has crazy bonuses and the server is dead. We don't need that nonsense here.

The developers themselves have stated they are unsure of what relic bonus system to use.

Having even 10% damage bonus let alone 30% in RvR causes lots of imbalances. We don't need that here. Better to keep the game more skillful.

No man what is this utheguarde place you talk about. Really.

Not sure if you're reading but I even included a much larger scale like all the servers, you know Bors, Igraine, Merlin, Nimue. Actually I remember answering some of your questions which is fine but I'd have to put money on you not playing back then and remembering the launch servers, most of us have played this so much longer and the trends we found wherever we played , for years, do not match up with your ignorant suggestions about what will definitely just happen/doomsday stuff.

Nothing you said above changes that one realm will always dominate, and if you walk into a 3v3 realm type of game and expect even distribution of power level you are playing the wrong game. The game is great because if you invest you can have limited bonuses, not some questing zone in wow where you kill everything and nothing really changes for everyone around you - here you can plan and execute a very strategic attack and actually give your realm mates a tangible bonus for doing so, and if the other realms choose not to stand up to you and fail to defend it then the consequence is they get a bonus. Get good and organize a raid and take them back, you keep ending the story at the beginning when these relics change hands all the time back and forth.

Lastly, having relics as the reward or funny hats has no bearing on skill. I'm guessing you're eluding to a guy with 10% bonus that kills someone 10% easier somehow loses all his skill from like 75 to 0 or however you want to think about it because he had a bonus. This game has so many variables why someone won a fight its like I'm trying to teach emotions to a robot here. Ever try and go up against a player that is SC'd and you aren't? How about a guy that plays with his G3 phone service instead of cable/dsl? How about a guy that decides to use or not use positionals in his fights? How about a 8v8 crew that roams around and fills their group with friends only instead of filling out a more balanced group?

Or how about a few dozen players that doesn't care about relics vs. a few dozen players that does? All of these you can argue some skill level is required but at the end of the day its still a X - Y calculation you can fill in for X and Y respectfully, you are making the same calculation and you can point out the flaws in your logic because filling some in and you end up feeling differently or make special pleading for the same exact calculation, just the issue is something more you care about.

If this is too much again as you didn't respond to really anything in the last post I challenged you on - stop trying to remove core things that are in the game like Relic Bonuses, you weren't here and do not have your finger on the pulse of the player base like you think. Everyone here who played moderately for over a decade I would take their projections over some newer player who builds every argument on a foundation of assumptions which totally give away you need to be the furthest away from the decision-making table that the devs decide to listen to. I like some of your ideas but you spoil them with removing baseline content that you simply lack the experience and knowledge to know the damage you're doing.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:20 AM by defiasbandit

Uthgard is the most popular DAOC private shard ever created. It is Phoenix's direct competition. Uthgard lost over 90% of its peak population which was once over 5000. This happened for many reasons, but in its current state the Midgard realm holds all the relics and has like a 30% damage bonus. It creates wildly imbalanced PvP. Trying to act like 10-30% damage and healing bonuses in RvR don't matter is silly. Players on that server have constantly complained about it. I played original DAOC before 1.65. The game was amazing, but really flawed.

DAOC RvR is imbalanced as it is. We don't need even more imbalances by introducing % damage and healing bonuses. There are other ways to incentivize relics without distrupting the gameplay.

I would appreciate it if you were more constructive on your feedback regarding the system I have suggested. If you do not agree with it that is fine, but please move on from this topic.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 10:09 AM by Kaziera

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:20 AM
Uthgard is the most popular DAOC private shard ever created. It is Phoenix's direct competition. Uthgard lost over 90% of its peak population which was once over 5000. This happened for many reasons, but in its current state the Midgard realm holds all the relics and has like a 30% damage bonus. It creates wildly imbalanced PvP. Trying to act like 10-30% damage and healing bonuses in RvR don't matter is silly. Players on that server have constantly complained about it. I played original DAOC before 1.65. The game was amazing, but really flawed.

DAOC RvR is imbalanced as it is. We don't need even more imbalances by introducing % damage and healing bonuses. There are other ways to incentivize relics without distrupting the gameplay.

I would appreciate it if you were more constructive on your feedback regarding the system I have suggested. If you do not agree with it that is fine, but please move on from this topic.

He did answer on topic. But obviously you are not able to see the bigger picture, he is describing.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 11:58 AM by Tree

Your ideas dont get better by opening a new thread with the same nonsense every few days.