Guard - Phoenix Freeshard

From those who have experience of RVR here, how is the guard mechanic working? Does it feel classic in relation to the amount of incoming attacks blocked on a target? Uthgard always seemed to get guard right, where as the old origins server most certainly didn't (barely ever blocked an incoming attack on your target). This will be a key choice for me as to whether to play a Def tank here.

Appreciate feedback from those who have RVR'd extensively here

Sat 13 Oct 2018 9:29 PM by Ninefingers

Thanks for replies !

Sat 13 Oct 2018 11:01 PM by Magesty

It seems to work just fine for me. I block a decent amount on my Reaver when I’m duoing. You can try it for yourself when i50 hits.

Mon 15 Oct 2018 9:54 PM by schreon

I can't relate my experience to other servers, as Phoenix is the only server I actively played a defensive tank on yet. However, my two cents:

Since they changed the dual wield block penalty from 50% to 25%, guard is like a 30-50% damage debuff on the enemy melee train on average, depending on your level of MoBlock. This means you double the average timespan your guarded target lives. A caster that survives for about 1-2 seconds as soon as the melee train arrives will now survives 2-4 seconds instead (assuming they all got slam timers). Sometimes that is enough for your healers to react. Of course, in a smallman or duo group, that is a different story.

What you defenitely can not do is having your PBAE caster jump into a zerg and expect yourself to guard all the blows ... he will still pop dead immediately unless you stun most targets around him.

That being said, playing a defensive tank is definitely worth it here on Phoenix. You can really make a difference. However, I feel that guard is playing only a minor role in that. Applying stun and snare is soooo much more important, hence I consider Prevent Flight and hitting at swing-cap way more important than MoBlock . Of course, MoBlock and MoParry will improve your personal defense, too, so the probability of winning snare-style duels against enemy melees is getting better.

But aiming for Block-Cap in order to guard better first and get Prevent Flight later? No way, guard is not that strong to justify that. At least in my humble opinion.

I hope that helps?

Tue 16 Oct 2018 5:23 AM by schreon

... also, that is why I believe that some hybrids like Champion are not suited as a Def-Tank, simply because they lack a back-snare and Prevent Flight.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 5:54 AM by Cadebrennus

schreon wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 5:23 AM
... also, that is why I believe that some hybrids like Champion are not suited as a Def-Tank, simply because they lack a back-snare and Prevent Flight.

No PF but there is a side snare in both the Pierce and Blades lines. It's not a back snare but it's better than no snare.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:04 AM by schreon

Yes. Maybe I should not have written "not suited". They are still suited for the job, but they have a harder time doing so.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:36 AM by depth

This seems like a relevant thread to piggyback another blocking question in..

"The size of your shield is indicating how many opponents you can block simultaneously without penality:

small shield: 1 opponent
medium shield: 2 opponents
large shield: 3 opponents"

Quoted from Camelotwiki. Can anyone tell me the penalty value for having additional attackers that they are mentioning? I seem to have incredible block rate on a rr3 reaver with 42 base shield and no MoB using a small shield. That's only in the realm of 31% block chance vs a single target, asumming they are not dw.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 5:40 PM by Ninefingers

Thanks for the replies, this is the kind of info i was looking for!

I think i can answer your question regarding size of shield. I believe the limit on number of attackers blocked only applies to PVE targets. In RVR you can block as many as are hitting even with a small shield, which is why def tanks use small shields in RVR (as well as the faster speed of course for quicker slams)

Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:07 PM by depth

Ninefingers wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 5:40 PM
Thanks for the replies, this is the kind of info i was looking for!

I think i can answer your question regarding size of shield. I believe the limit on number of attackers blocked only applies to PVE targets. In RVR you can block as many as are hitting even with a small shield, which is why def tanks use small shields in RVR (as well as the faster speed of course for quicker slams)

Thanks Ninefingers.

Have almost always used the small shield for swing speed, but assumed I was giving up block chance vs multiples in rvr.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 5:37 AM by isocleas2

For the purposes of guarding shield size doesn't matter, a small shield and large shield will work exactly the same. However shield size should matter if the enemies are attacking YOU, so if the melee train starts looking your way a large shield can help.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 5:12 PM by depth

Thanks for the reply, but now I'm getting conflicting information. Does anyone know how multiple attackers/shield size work in RvR on Phoenix? On Uth1 all paladin / hero / warrior use large shield, on Phoenix all I see is small shield. Someone please confirm.

Thu 18 Oct 2018 7:28 PM by Cadebrennus

depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 5:12 PM
Thanks for the reply, but now I'm getting conflicting information. Does anyone know how multiple attackers/shield size work in RvR on Phoenix? On Uth1 all paladin / hero / warrior use large shield, on Phoenix all I see is small shield. Someone please confirm.

I can't speak to the mechanic of the blocking but I do know that people tend to use small shields in order to have a shorter delay between Slam and the swing of their 2hander or polearm.

A lot of people don't know this but you swing your current weapon at your last swing speed, not your current swing speed. So if I swung a dirk, then switched from the dirk to a 2handed sword, the first swing of the 2handed sword would swing at the dirk's speed until the next swing, which would then swing at the 2handed sword swing speed. If I then switched back to the dirk, the first swing of the dirk would be slow, since I would be swinging at the 2hander sword speed until the next swing of the dirk.

I guess "weapon speed" should more accurately be called something akin to a "recovery swing speed"

Thu 18 Oct 2018 9:45 PM by depth

Yes thank you for reply but it doesn't address the question. I'll try and ask a dev, I'll report anything I find.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 1:09 AM by Cadebrennus

depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 9:45 PM
Yes thank you for reply but it doesn't address the question. I'll try and ask a dev, I'll report anything I find.

Sorry I don't know the answer to your original question but as far as small shield popularity goes speed is absolutely a factor. Hopefully I answered the shield size popularity question.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 4:57 AM by depth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 1:09 AM
depth wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Oct 2018 9:45 PM
Yes thank you for reply but it doesn't address the question. I'll try and ask a dev, I'll report anything I find.

Sorry I don't know the answer to your original question but as far as small shield popularity goes speed is absolutely a factor. Hopefully I answered the shield size popularity question.

I posted this question in another subforum. Essentially the concencus is:

Small shield block chance does not incur a penalty for more attackers, does not negatively affect guarding allies, and of course, has better swing speed.
There is no incentive to using anything other than a small shield outside of pve, in terms of the defenses here on Phoenix.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 7:06 AM by Cadebrennus

Here's a monkey wrench thrown into the seemingly settled question of shield size in RvR....

If you are guarding someone from pet spam (such as in the case of a Theurgist or BD sending pets after your target or even you) does the blocking code take into account RvR rules or PvE rules? I would assume PvE would be the case here so keep those large shields handy!

Any feedback on the pet scenario?

Sun 11 Nov 2018 10:07 PM by JimD

Ninefingers wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Oct 2018 9:29 PM
Thanks for replies !

[edit - abusive language]

Thu 13 Dec 2018 8:49 PM by Phyl

small shield = less end usage when slamming