Valewalkers - 44 or 50 Scythe?

This seems to be a big debate among Valewalkers.

My current VW is 44 Scythe / 48 Arb / 10 Parry but I see that 50/38/20 is pretty popular too.

Defense penetration doesn't seem to be much of an increase from 44 to 50 and neither does damage variance.

But I haven't looked into style damage. Is the style damage much better at 50?

Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:22 PM by inoeth

imo the lvl 50 style is not useable (4 part chain lol) and also does not offer a good effect anyway (95 delve dd lol)
on the other hand attack speed is king
so my suggestion is 44/48/10

Thu 24 Sep 2020 12:37 AM by gotwqqd

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:22 PM
imo the lvl 50 style is not useable (4 part chain lol) and also does not offer a good effect anyway (95 delve dd lol)
on the other hand attack speed is king
so my suggestion is 44/48/10

If they ever complete the style changes 50 scythe will be worth it

Thu 24 Sep 2020 9:48 AM by inoeth

IF ;D doubt it until i see it

Thu 24 Sep 2020 9:11 PM by imweasel

I'm currently running 44 scythe, 46 arb and 17 parry.

44 scythe seems plenty enough for me...

Mon 28 Sep 2020 10:35 AM by Noashakra

The thing is for the 4 style chain, you want to hit with a fast scythe for the 3 first styles, and switch with the slowest for the DD, because the damage is influence by the weapon speed. You can crit on it too, if you invest 1 point at least in WP. It's an AE too, and it makes huge damage, which is great to surprise healers.
You want to use positionals anyway because the anytimes suck on VW and have crap to hit bonus... So yeah in group go for the 50 scythe.

Mon 28 Sep 2020 2:37 PM by imweasel

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:22 PM
imo the lvl 50 style is not useable (4 part chain lol) and also does not offer a good effect anyway (95 delve dd lol)
on the other hand attack speed is king
so my suggestion is 44/48/10

I also took 44 scythe but went slightly lower with 46arb for more parry.

I like this thought. I'll have to try it out. Is worth 6+ parry for the higher root and speed boost?

Mon 9 Nov 2020 3:49 PM by Kappu

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:22 PM
imo the lvl 50 style is not useable (4 part chain lol) and also does not offer a good effect anyway (95 delve dd lol)
on the other hand attack speed is king
so my suggestion is 44/48/10

I'd agree with this statement, but the real question is do you get more damage over time with 44 Scythe with 39% Haste or 50 Scythe with 34% Haste?

If you have 250 quickness and the slowest crafted Scythe at 5.5 (I'm sure you may get slower drops, but just for the sake of argument we'll use 5.5)
250/5.5/39% = 2.08 Swing Speed
250/5.5/34% = 2.25 Swing Speed

We are talking .17 difference in swing speed. You could compound this further than just base damage also if you have higher miss rates at 44 vs. 50 also, but if you just used generic swings on a dummy which would do more damage over let's say a 60 second period? I can't test this as I don't have a VW, but someone should for science

Mon 9 Nov 2020 3:55 PM by Kappu

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Sep 2020 12:52 PM
This seems to be a big debate among Valewalkers.

My current VW is 44 Scythe / 48 Arb / 10 Parry but I see that 50/38/20 is pretty popular too.

Defense penetration doesn't seem to be much of an increase from 44 to 50 and neither does damage variance.

But I haven't looked into style damage. Is the style damage much better at 50?

I posted above this one just some info and what if's about weapon speed and stuff, but if I had a VW I'd go 50/38/20 something about having zero spec points left makes me feel like it's the appropriate way LOL

Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:10 PM by darkstar00

I'm going 38/39/37 on my baby VW... mainly for solo. 44 to 39 scythe only drops wep skill like 50 pts... which is a non-factor.

My thought process is I don't know how often I'll really use the backstyle so not sure 44 scythe is worth it. Gonna mainly be doing the parry/evade/side chains.

I will probably try 44 scythe at some point though.

Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:53 PM by Bradekes

My VW going 50scythe, 38arb, 20parry. There's nothing in arb worth training for over 38 IMO. The higher proc rate and lower resist rate of the disease sounds very nice, as well as the higher ablative value. They don't seem good enough to lower the resist rate of the side hit proc or to give up on the extra damage as that's VW main role. Tanking better sounds okay too but the points invested in the defensive ability doesn't seem to equal the added benefit of the melee damage.

If you're solo you will be fighting stealthers most of the time and being able to hit through their evade would be most useful IMO as killing faster also means taking less damage.

Mon 9 Nov 2020 5:08 PM by Kappu

darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:10 PM
I'm going 38/39/37 on my baby VW... mainly for solo. 44 to 39 scythe only drops wep skill like 50 pts... which is a non-factor.

My thought process is I don't know how often I'll really use the backstyle so not sure 44 scythe is worth it. Gonna mainly be doing the parry/evade/side chains.

I will probably try 44 scythe at some point though.

I wouldn't dismiss 50 points of WS as it's one of the primary factors calculated into miss rates and breaking through opponents' defenses. It sounds like a small number but can have huge impacts.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 12:12 AM by darkstar00

Kappu wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 5:08 PM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:10 PM
I'm going 38/39/37 on my baby VW... mainly for solo. 44 to 39 scythe only drops wep skill like 50 pts... which is a non-factor.

My thought process is I don't know how often I'll really use the backstyle so not sure 44 scythe is worth it. Gonna mainly be doing the parry/evade/side chains.

I will probably try 44 scythe at some point though.

I wouldn't dismiss 50 points of WS as it's one of the primary factors calculated into miss rates and breaking through opponents' defenses. It sounds like a small number but can have huge impacts.

I'll test it.

Fri 13 Nov 2020 1:01 AM by nixxo87

darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:10 PM
I'm going 38/39/37 on my baby VW... mainly for solo. 44 to 39 scythe only drops wep skill like 50 pts... which is a non-factor.

My thought process is I don't know how often I'll really use the backstyle so not sure 44 scythe is worth it. Gonna mainly be doing the parry/evade/side chains.

I will probably try 44 scythe at some point though.

You want the back stun trust me, also I went 44 scythe 34 arb 35 parry, with moparry I'm rocking some serious 41% parry and its really noticeable, since the parry chain is my bread and butter after BB.

Fri 13 Nov 2020 1:07 AM by gromet12

Kappu wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 5:08 PM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:10 PM
I'm going 38/39/37 on my baby VW... mainly for solo. 44 to 39 scythe only drops wep skill like 50 pts... which is a non-factor.

My thought process is I don't know how often I'll really use the backstyle so not sure 44 scythe is worth it. Gonna mainly be doing the parry/evade/side chains.

I will probably try 44 scythe at some point though.

I wouldn't dismiss 50 points of WS as it's one of the primary factors calculated into miss rates and breaking through opponents' defenses. It sounds like a small number but can have huge impacts.

WS is just a number and has nothing to do with getting through opponent's defense

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration

Mon 16 Nov 2020 5:25 AM by oldmanukko

i can not speak to group situations at all. but, as a solo VW (lone enforcer)

44 scythe
38 arboreal
30 parry

the amount of dmg and to-hit% (as i tested at RR8 /shrug) is extremely minimal between 44 to 50. extremely. i don't have my data any more. but, i believe the difference was less than 1/2 of a % for me, i believe. (i think it was 62 composite scythe that the dmg came to an almost stand-still) so, take 44 for the rear stun and stop there. you're better off getting parry in every way shape and form (for a solo'r). think of a parry as a "lose a turn" for your opponent while starting off a very large damage chain for you. high parry is also why i take lower arboreal. i'll take the 100% dmg reduction of a parry over the chance of any other buff proc'ing every day of the week.

i'd go lower in Arb for group situations. but, as a solo'r people try to run... a lot... so, i need to stop that and resisting the insta-snare is a loss of realm points. (hence, i have Ichor as my back-up) but, now i'm getting off topic

ping dansemacabre in-game if you want me to ramble on about being solo.

Mon 16 Nov 2020 8:30 AM by gotwqqd

44
The chain for 50 is unlikely with the system in place
Put arb line where you want and pump the saved spec points into parry