Archery Adjustments, AoM/PD and Champions

Started 1 Nov 2020
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
Due to current events and hence the expected population gain in the near future the no changes stance will be relaxed a bit to allow a couple changes.

The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger, as well as make it more obvious how useful AoM / PD are and an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.

There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Changes:
- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%
- Scout shield style Stop had its duration reduced by 30%
- AoM and PD values have been raised and now end at 30% instead of 20% secondary resists
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items

Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:05 PM by Stynkfyst28
Please do not nerf scout dmg because of Rangers. The issue really is not with the dmg it is with the population. Nerfing scout and even hunters more with crit shot is just not fair. Also bring back mastery of arcane since that obv was not why rangers did a lot of dmg.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:07 PM by Tashkent
Sounds reasonable, I'm surprised. Why not reduce bow speed to 5.0 max.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:12 PM by Nardiam
finally.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:15 PM by Sayuri
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items



that mean we need to go in the charge race again ?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:15 PM by swap89
Stynkfyst28 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:05 PM
Please do not nerf scout dmg because of Rangers. The issue really is not with the dmg it is with the population. Nerfing scout and even hunters more with crit shot is just not fair. Also bring back mastery of arcane since that obv was not why rangers did a lot of dmg.

why dont delete the class from the game?...ridiculos
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:16 PM by Catkain
Unpopular opinion: I think archer damage is fine. I do NOT think the scout snare style is fine!

Popular opinion: I should have a chance 1v1 against a much lower rr champion. This may be the case after this change!

Pa: I love you fotmagain, you’re extra extra.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:17 PM by Peligroso
This is awesome, a much needed change (and I even have a ranger, albeit not my main).
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:20 PM by Noashakra
I think it was a bit harsh on archers, but as none of them solo anyway, it's fine in the end.
Nerf champion and stop is long due vs pot buffs.

You see, people are not against all the changes :p
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:24 PM by brewtus23
Why do you continue to group the archery problem when everyone on this server knows that the main issue is Rangers!!!

-Why don't you consider changing the bow speed available to rangers. Instead of allowing them to have 5.5 spd bow reduce it to 5.0

-Scout bow damage is not even close to the damage that Rangers can do and that is because of the self buffs that rangers are able to use.

I appreciate everything that you guys do on this server and i know everyone on here is a pain in the ass but come on this is like mass punishment .
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:27 PM by Stynkfyst28
Catkain wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:16 PM
Unpopular opinion: I think archer damage is fine. I do NOT think the scout snare style is fine!

Popular opinion: I should have a chance 1v1 against a much lower rr champion. This may be the case after this change!

Pa: I love you fotmagain, you’re extra extra.
The damage def does not need touched you will never stop this play style and mentality of adding 100% of everything. Lets be real the 8mans and zergs is why everyone is running stealth zergs thats the core issue
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:28 PM by Sunkissed
this is completely illogical

a class is popular and a lot of people whine in the forums about that
there are no numbers of outstanding damage by rangers

these nerfs are only based on 4-5 people opening more and more threads and whining about archers because they want to play their style without archers

with this logic i could organize 10 people whining constantly lets say about gtaeo damage of wizards...let this be 2 weeks and we have the nerf of gtaoe?

you contantly nerf one single class only because its popular but have no numbers


i predict with these changes you will achieve the opposite...more rangers will group and assist because it will be impossible to kill sth solo.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM by brewtus23
Name me a Ranger that solo's
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM by Stynkfyst28
Changing bow dmg will not change the issue of rangers zerging. You have 8m and vissie zergs constantly farming small mans and soloers. These small mans are now all rangers running together. It is much simpler to be a sneak and prey then it is to be a vissie. You nerf archers they will either 1. keep doing it or 2. move on and zerg with NS ect
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM by Tenny
while I appreciate you not touching bow damage for hunters - please also leave them out of CS nerf - I mean they are going to be hurting BAD with that nerf.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM by Kwall0311
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.


A step in the right direction. I hope its really looked at. People say there are no solo archers but there is infact archers soloing. A flat damage nerf changes things. The problem is the massive amounts of Rangers assisting. Nobody is complaining about scouts or hunters in keep fights.

I really hope the general damage reduction is looked at, and focused to your second option of archery assist, the true problem.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:34 PM by brewtus23
You can't nerf a group just because they want to group up and play together. That is the stupidest reason whatsoever!!!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:34 PM by Forlornhope
Sunkissed wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:28 PM
this is completely illogical

a class is popular and a lot of people whine in the forums about that
there are no numbers of outstanding damage by rangers

these nerfs are only based on 4-5 people opening more and more threads and whining about archers because they want to play their style without archers

with this logic i could organize 10 people whining constantly lets say about gtaeo damage of wizards...let this be 2 weeks and we have the nerf of gtaoe?

you contantly nerf one single class only because its popular but have no numbers


i predict with these changes you will achieve the opposite...more rangers will group and assist because it will be impossible to kill sth solo.

There are tons of screen shots of rangers hitting people for 900+ damage fyi
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:34 PM by swap89
Kwall0311 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.


A step in the right direction. I hope its really looked at. People say there are no solo archers but there is infact archers soloing. A flat damage nerf changes things. The problem is the massive amounts of Rangers assisting. Nobody is complaining about scouts or hunters in keep fights.

I really hope the general damage reduction is looked at, and focused to your second option of archery assist, the true problem.
u can continue cry...gm listen u very well
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:35 PM by Sayuri
Stynkfyst28 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Changing bow dmg will not change the issue of rangers zerging. You have 8m and vissie zergs constantly farming small mans and soloers. These small mans are now all rangers running together. It is much simpler to be a sneak and prey then it is to be a vissie. You nerf archers they will either 1. keep doing it or 2. move on and zerg with NS ect

they are already zerging :p
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:36 PM by Stynkfyst28
Why not make the stealth detection even greater while grping 4+ stealth in a grp. If you are in a grp 4 or bigger the stealth detection is doubled to be seen. Yes we already did this but we made the vision very minimal.

This is so classes do not get nerfed for no reason. Because we all know pointlessly changing archery dmg is not going to fix the issues of 5-15 rangers running together, It will just force it more
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:37 PM by Stynkfyst28
Tenny wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM
while I appreciate you not touching bow damage for hunters - please also leave them out of CS nerf - I mean they are going to be hurting BAD with that nerf.
CRit shot change will change hunter bow dmg
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:38 PM by Shamissa
Awesome change on rangers!!! They are freaking OP man, scout not so much. But i am happy with the nerf on rangers plus they are always camping a keep with a full group of them always no matter what class you playing one shot and you are dead because the they assisting and the dmg is just ridiculous to take it down a chain class in a sec.
Let them cry as always no matter what you do ,they will always cry, this is a great change.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:39 PM by Stynkfyst28
Kwall0311 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.


A step in the right direction. I hope its really looked at. People say there are no solo archers but there is infact archers soloing. A flat damage nerf changes things. The problem is the massive amounts of Rangers assisting. Nobody is complaining about scouts or hunters in keep fights.

I really hope the general damage reduction is looked at, and focused to your second option of archery assist, the true problem.
Thats funny i solo like 24/7 there is literally 1 ranger who solos and his a tiarna melee ranger.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:39 PM by Sunkissed
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:34 PM
Sunkissed wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:28 PM
this is completely illogical

a class is popular and a lot of people whine in the forums about that
there are no numbers of outstanding damage by rangers

these nerfs are only based on 4-5 people opening more and more threads and whining about archers because they want to play their style without archers

with this logic i could organize 10 people whining constantly lets say about gtaeo damage of wizards...let this be 2 weeks and we have the nerf of gtaoe?

you contantly nerf one single class only because its popular but have no numbers


i predict with these changes you will achieve the opposite...more rangers will group and assist because it will be impossible to kill sth solo.

There are tons of screen shots of rangers hitting people for 900+ damage fyi

have you ever calculated how much damage an assasin does with one single pa including debuff and poison?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:40 PM by Kwall0311
Stynkfyst28 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:36 PM
Why not make the stealth detection even greater while grping 4+ stealth in a grp. If you are in a grp 4 or bigger the stealth detection is doubled to be seen. Yes we already did this but we made the vision very minimal.

This is so classes do not get nerfed for no reason. Because we all know pointlessly changing archery dmg is not going to fix the issues of 5-15 rangers running together, It will just force it more

The rangers in question are not even using stealth. This nerf is coming from the massive amounts of rangers that are almost invulnerable in some keep situations dropping 500 standard and 1k crits from unreachable ranges.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:43 PM by Forlornhope
Sunkissed wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:39 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:34 PM
Sunkissed wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:28 PM
this is completely illogical

a class is popular and a lot of people whine in the forums about that
there are no numbers of outstanding damage by rangers

these nerfs are only based on 4-5 people opening more and more threads and whining about archers because they want to play their style without archers

with this logic i could organize 10 people whining constantly lets say about gtaeo damage of wizards...let this be 2 weeks and we have the nerf of gtaoe?

you contantly nerf one single class only because its popular but have no numbers


i predict with these changes you will achieve the opposite...more rangers will group and assist because it will be impossible to kill sth solo.

There are tons of screen shots of rangers hitting people for 900+ damage fyi

have you ever calculated how much damage an assasin does with one single pa including debuff and poison?

Right but they need to get into range, walking incredibly slow while stealthed and land a positional. And none of that is relevant to anything in this thread or my reply to your post.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:44 PM by Jangis
adjustments because au forum whinners !

great decision

adios

-1 player
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:46 PM by brewtus23
Goodbye!! No one in this thread cares about your idol threats of leaving, just leave already we don't have the time or the patience for your childish temper tantrums!!! bye bye!!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:48 PM by swap89
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:46 PM
Goodbye!! No one in this thread cares about your idol threats of leaving, just leave already we don't have the time or the patience for your childish temper tantrums!!! bye bye!!
seems in this server the only things important are the albs whining on forum
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:49 PM by brewtus23
Hello Pot have you meet kettle yet!!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:50 PM by Pasa
- is there any changes planed about the tons of GTAO´s at towers from Wizards?
- nerf about GTAO´s . no assist GT ?
- changes about the Minstrel population?


- changes about Nekros, they can up in tower in shade and take a GT ?

the problem here is, that the albion bg cant take a keep. if there are 2-3 rangers inside polemo bg leave the keep.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:54 PM by swap89
Pasa wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:50 PM
- is there any changes planed about the tons of GTAO´s at towers from Wizards?

- changes about the Minstrel population?

- changes about Nekros, they can up in tower in shade and take a GT ?

the problem here is, that the albion bg cant take a keep. if there are 2-3 rangers inside polemo bg leave the keep.

i love u
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:02 PM by Tenny
Stynkfyst28 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:37 PM
Tenny wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM
while I appreciate you not touching bow damage for hunters - please also leave them out of CS nerf - I mean they are going to be hurting BAD with that nerf.
CRit shot change will change hunter bow dmg

Aye I was referring to the outright bow damage nerfs scouts and rangers received.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:08 PM by Nidd
no worries we make 2fg ranger assist train. keep moaning keep nerfing. we find the ways to win unlike other realms.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:08 PM by Greal
As view of a hunter:

Scout isnt directly OP because of its archery dmg. Its because of block / stun / snare without timer. reducing its archery dmg will affect the dmg they deal during kiting. So this will may be effective.

Ranger archery is really insane. i got multiple time hits with about 9XX Dmg from crits and 5XX hits with normal shot. This with studded armor on. Even i got these hits with chain wairing skald. So a dmg nerf here would be really usefull.

If these changes will change the population? i dont know maybe. Lets try.

But pls, dont hit the hunters with that crit shot nerf too. Hunters got lowest archery range, slowest bow and a nearly useless pet for sniping playstile. So nerfing the crit shot also hits hunters really hard for no reason at all.

thx for reading this.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:08 PM by ExcretusMaximus
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:34 PM
You can't nerf a group just because they want to group up and play together. That is the stupidest reason whatsoever!!!

Sure they can.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:08 PM by Runental
Jangis wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:44 PM
adjustments because au forum whinners !

great decision

adios

-1 player

Bla
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:09 PM by Tenny
Tenny wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:31 PM
while I appreciate you not touching bow damage for hunters - please also leave them out of CS nerf - I mean they are going to be hurting BAD with that nerf.

Honestly, if you just giver hunters 5.5 spd bows I think they don't become completely obsolete with upcoming changes. Something to consider.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:09 PM by Noleran
I always think that custom changes are often good balance moves for the game. Like you see in WAReckong Freeshard. But its needed that this balance changes are pretty good tested and all/most player are got fine feeling about.
But just nerf a class like the ranger because many ppl play that class is not the right way to go, right?
Dmg spikes, Burst, assist are always part of the way to win in daoc - nothing new. I mean hello Philosopher Kings and aaaaall the other hard assist grps are out, got same success.

There are already counters against like Catapults, Nearsight, gtaeo, any ae rupt - and there are massive numbers on wizards that can do.

Rework the Critshot is something that can do work - like if another ranger shots in follow/assist on a critshot hald the dmg for 2-3 seconds.

DISCUSS this - and write something worth down. Dont cry and be rude, just go for the way all have fun in our Favor game - DAOC!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:10 PM by Rillifane
I really loved this game, but like to play solo.. So i AGAIN stopped play it several weeks ago, because it's just a pain playing solo - even with my ranger ...
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:11 PM by bigne88
about time!!!! Thanks devs. Archers are a plague and as such it must be cured.
Sadly reducing a bit the damage, I'm afraid, wont change much: we all know that players who rolls an archer do so just to grief on others and ruin their fun; for this reason they tend to go around in more than one (because they are too bad to solo). I'd just put a flat % of stealthers that can log in.
Stealthers are killing the server. Let's end it now!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM by Estrema
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:15 PM by gotwqqd
It seems like this is likely to drive the few solo archers we have into the plague groups of them, which the damage reduction won’t help mitigate
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:16 PM by Bradekes
So instead you should change all bow speeds to slowest 5.0 for all realms. Raise all archer melee dmg table to 20. Reduce archery dmg table by 1 for all archer. This gives more balanced class overall with focus of soloability vs grouping.

You could also consider reducing the self buff value of PF dex/qui and add a str/con buff too.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:18 PM by Forlornhope
Noleran wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:09 PM
I always think that custom changes are often good balance moves for the game. Like you see in WAReckong Freeshard. But its needed that this balance changes are pretty good tested and all/most player are got fine feeling about.
But just nerf a class like the ranger because many ppl play that class is not the right way to go, right?
Dmg spikes, Burst, assist are always part of the way to win in daoc - nothing new. I mean hello Philosopher Kings and aaaaall the other hard assist grps are out, got same success.

There are already counters against like Catapults, Nearsight, gtaeo, any ae rupt - and there are massive numbers on wizards that can do.

Rework the Critshot is something that can do work - like if another ranger shots in follow/assist on a critshot hald the dmg for 2-3 seconds.

DISCUSS this - and write something worth down. Dont cry and be rude, just go for the way all have fun in our Favor game - DAOC!

I can't speak in terms of bg play, since I don't actually play in the bgs. But stealth groups in general are a real issue for solo/smallman play. They can insta kill you or half your small man party almost instantly with no real counter to it. You can maybe sos away, but you're likely already low enough health to be hit with that low hp snare and dead. One of the people in your group might get away, but that's really it.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM by Forlornhope
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:21 PM by Azrael
+1
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:27 PM by Fugax
Glad to see something is being done with Rangers. I feel grouping all archers is not effective at all when we know the giving issue is Rangers over all dps. No need to touch hunters dps, scouts typically have higher bow dps cuz defense is crap "not with snare anymore>, and rangers have wicked good melee typically to back them up <not when yr 48/50 spec>. The actual problem is Rangers being buffed out of there butt, and taking advantage of the systems in place. Again, glad devs are looking into an issue, but wish the devs would look AT the issue. Thanks for the free game, non the less
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:32 PM by gotwqqd
Stynkfyst28 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:36 PM
Why not make the stealth detection even greater while grping 4+ stealth in a grp. If you are in a grp 4 or bigger the stealth detection is doubled to be seen. Yes we already did this but we made the vision very minimal.

This is so classes do not get nerfed for no reason. Because we all know pointlessly changing archery dmg is not going to fix the issues of 5-15 rangers running together, It will just force it more
Being grouped doesn’t matter
They will all just run together on discord.

A same realm detection increase is needed
Not sure of the increase to detect or the proximity of the stealthers though. It’s not only archers, the four + assassin assist is major problem
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:34 PM by Estrema
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
this is the classic alb discussion, at hiib when we defend is not problem to group ranger and if we have druids we buff them is at alb you like go to stealth party for kill solo and dong go with polemo is your problem non a class problem, gm have give you a mod cheat with no immunity snare and you cry. repeat the problem is not a ranger but scout play style

and if you dont understand this is because you need to learn how to play a daoc
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:42 PM by Drughen
nice changes! keep up the good work
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:50 PM by Forlornhope
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:34 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
this is the classic alb discussion, at hiib when we defend is not problem to group ranger and if we have druids we buff them is at alb you like go to stealth party for kill solo and dong go with polemo is your problem non a class problem, gm have give you a mod cheat with no immunity snare and you cry. repeat the problem is not a ranger but scout play style

and if you dont understand this is because you need to learn how to play a daoc

there are numerous hib stealth groups who also just roam around and kill solos/small. That's where my perspective is from and very likely the GMs perspective as well. Oh and ps. I don't play a scout and the only alb class I play at all anymore is a cleric. So assuming that I'm just an alb relenting in your misfortune instead of looking at this logically just makes you look like an ass lol.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:54 PM by WildWilbur
Good change! We will see what it does...
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:59 PM by Stoertebecker
Nice try, but we know what will happen, they`ll group even more. Still waiting for the minstrel adjustments.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:10 PM by Estrema
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:50 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:34 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
this is the classic alb discussion, at hiib when we defend is not problem to group ranger and if we have druids we buff them is at alb you like go to stealth party for kill solo and dong go with polemo is your problem non a class problem, gm have give you a mod cheat with no immunity snare and you cry. repeat the problem is not a ranger but scout play style

and if you dont understand this is because you need to learn how to play a daoc

there are numerous hib stealth groups who also just roam around and kill solos/small. That's where my perspective is from and very likely the GMs perspective as well. Oh and ps. I don't play a scout and the only alb class I play at all anymore is a cleric. So assuming that I'm just an alb relenting in your misfortune instead of looking at this logically just makes you look like an ass lol.
the problem is not solo or group at moment at alb cry because in keep defense hib use ranger that are buffed from a druid too, but is not problem of dmg in this situation, because if scout make the same setup make the same dmg........................is easy to understand the base dmg is the same change only the ammount of dex that when ranger use self is high than scout with potion, when they biffed by a cleric/druid no is the same.

now if the problem is solo played because have self buff i remeber that ranger for have red buff and high bow demage dont train any in weapon and dont have defense, tthe scout that make like 50 dmg less have a shield and a no immunity style, you think that in solo play wht is better make 50 dmg or rest alive?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:21 PM by Nando
Thx Devs, but i doubt thats not enough against the ranger assist train who wipes half bgs ... we will see
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:28 PM by evert
Good that you are doing something about the rangers (and it's rangers specifically, anyone who plays one of the other realms knows this). From a solo perspective I would prefer the other solution you suggest; something like number of archers attacking a target correlates to increased chance to miss, but the dmg nerf might be good too. Not that I've ever lost 1v1 to a ranger. Champ change seems good too.

The argument that this will increase rangers grouping is hilarious; that might be true if you assume there are a 100% fixed number of rangers who play a fixed number of hours - in reality some fotm rangers will reroll or quit or play less. If it means larger groups of rangers that means less of them around - I'll take one group of 6 nerfed rangers camping one spot over 2 groups of 3 pre-nerf rangers camping different spots.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:29 PM by Stoertebecker
WildWilbur wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:54 PM
Good change! We will see what it does...

It will do nothing against grouped/clustered + assisting archers, and not much on solo playing archers that know what targets to pick and what not.

evert wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:28 PM
The argument that this will increase rangers grouping is hilarious; that might be true if you assume there are a 100% fixed number of rangers who play a fixed number of hours - in reality some fotm rangers will reroll or quit or play less. If it means larger groups of rangers that means less of them around - I'll take one group of 6 nerfed rangers camping one spot over 2 groups of 3 pre-nerf rangers camping different spots.

52 rangers online atm...questions?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:34 PM by evert
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:29 PM
evert wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:28 PM
The argument that this will increase rangers grouping is hilarious; that might be true if you assume there are a 100% fixed number of rangers who play a fixed number of hours - in reality some fotm rangers will reroll or quit or play less. If it means larger groups of rangers that means less of them around - I'll take one group of 6 nerfed rangers camping one spot over 2 groups of 3 pre-nerf rangers camping different spots.

52 rangers online atm...questions?

Did you read what I posted? Post-nerf there won't be 52 rangers online and if they want to kill me as quickly as they do now they will need to be in bigger groups, equals less groups of rangers.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:36 PM by insanesanity
Yeah rangers can hit in the high 800-900's, but that's with full buffs. This nerf fucks us rangers that don't typically group. I mean scouts can get full buffs and do the same exact thing minus the damage add. The assist stuff sucks no matter what it is assisting you, melee, casters, rangers, etc. Just another nerf catering to the casuals. Waaaaaaa instant death! Waaaa Waaa! I couldnt tell you how many times I was insta-gibbed by the debuff body/heat/cold caster trains, but no one says shit about that. Wtf, nerf everyone because some rangers like to play together. Might as well roll a fucking scout now.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:37 PM by evert
insanesanity wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:36 PM
Yeah rangers can hit in the high 800-900's, but that's with full buffs. This nerf fucks us rangers that don't typically group. I mean scouts can get full buffs and do the same exact thing minus the damage add. The assist stuff sucks no matter what it is assisting you, melee, casters, rangers, etc. Just another nerf catering to the casuals. Waaaaaaa instant death! Waaaa Waaa! I couldnt tell you how many times I was insta-gibbed by the debuff body/heat/cold caster trains, but no one says shit about that. Wtf, nerf everyone because some rangers like to play together. Might as well roll a fucking scout now.

There's a crucial difference between a ranger and a caster. See if you can find it (heh).
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:42 PM by insanesanity
It's not like 3 rangers can critical shot you back to back. There is a cooldown on how often you can be hit with this.. Trust me I'm a melee hybrid ranger and I've been dropped by 3-4 scouts + minstrel. It sucks, but crapping on archers as a whole because rangers are a good class is just a doo doo fix. Just leave shit alone already. The best thing the devs could do is stop catering to the casual players that rage after 1 death and quit.

On a side note: I even disagree with the champ changes. It's a monster solo class, but not so hot in a group. Basically crapping all over the strength of the class and making it less effective to cater to people that whine about it.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:45 PM by Runental
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:10 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:50 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:34 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
this is the classic alb discussion, at hiib when we defend is not problem to group ranger and if we have druids we buff them is at alb you like go to stealth party for kill solo and dong go with polemo is your problem non a class problem, gm have give you a mod cheat with no immunity snare and you cry. repeat the problem is not a ranger but scout play style

and if you dont understand this is because you need to learn how to play a daoc

there are numerous hib stealth groups who also just roam around and kill solos/small. That's where my perspective is from and very likely the GMs perspective as well. Oh and ps. I don't play a scout and the only alb class I play at all anymore is a cleric. So assuming that I'm just an alb relenting in your misfortune instead of looking at this logically just makes you look like an ass lol.
the problem is not solo or group at moment at alb cry because in keep defense hib use ranger that are buffed from a druid too, but is not problem of dmg in this situation, because if scout make the same setup make the same dmg........................is easy to understand the base dmg is the same change only the ammount of dex that when ranger use self is high than scout with potion, when they biffed by a cleric/druid no is the same.

now if the problem is solo played because have self buff i remeber that ranger for have red buff and high bow demage dont train any in weapon and dont have defense, tthe scout that make like 50 dmg less have a shield and a no immunity style, you think that in solo play wht is better make 50 dmg or rest alive?

Dude, please, do all a favor and use a decent translator, or just stop with your arguments,- this English is a pain in the ars to read.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:47 PM by Forlornhope
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:10 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:50 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:34 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
this is the classic alb discussion, at hiib when we defend is not problem to group ranger and if we have druids we buff them is at alb you like go to stealth party for kill solo and dong go with polemo is your problem non a class problem, gm have give you a mod cheat with no immunity snare and you cry. repeat the problem is not a ranger but scout play style

and if you dont understand this is because you need to learn how to play a daoc

there are numerous hib stealth groups who also just roam around and kill solos/small. That's where my perspective is from and very likely the GMs perspective as well. Oh and ps. I don't play a scout and the only alb class I play at all anymore is a cleric. So assuming that I'm just an alb relenting in your misfortune instead of looking at this logically just makes you look like an ass lol.
the problem is not solo or group at moment at alb cry because in keep defense hib use ranger that are buffed from a druid too, but is not problem of dmg in this situation, because if scout make the same setup make the same dmg........................is easy to understand the base dmg is the same change only the ammount of dex that when ranger use self is high than scout with potion, when they biffed by a cleric/druid no is the same.

now if the problem is solo played because have self buff i remeber that ranger for have red buff and high bow demage dont train any in weapon and dont have defense, tthe scout that make like 50 dmg less have a shield and a no immunity style, you think that in solo play wht is better make 50 dmg or rest alive?

They're trying to reduce the numbers of them in general, I can tell you that the problem with their numbers isn't specific to the bgs. In the past two weeks I have seen more ranger groups not roaming in the bg than I have ever seen on any server. As a solo/smallman player it's incredibly discouraging to have almost every single fight I have been jumped on by groups of 4+ rangers (and yes, to a lesser extent alb stealth groups). They have stated that if the damage reduction does not fix the problem that they will revert the changes and try something else. Literally everyone who does not run in these archer groups thinks they're detrimental to almost every style of play. Rangers who are not buffed with druid buffs hit for 800+ on my pot/self buffed hunter all the time, it's not just an issue with druid buffs.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:49 PM by Nidd
Nando wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:21 PM
Thx Devs, but i doubt thats not enough against the ranger assist train who wipes half bgs ... we will see

it begins....

Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:51 PM by gromet12
Am I the only one missing the additional PD changes here? So, casters (which ruin this game as much as sneak groups) get more survivability to melee dmg which is low already?

The staff should be politicians IMO

Blame the ranger/scout (which do need adjustments), but on the side let me increase the PD of casters which are already hard enough to kill as melee. PD doesn't need an increase, or let me know where my melee classes 50% debuff RESIST companion is so I can start running with them to do dmg?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:53 PM by gotwqqd
insanesanity wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:36 PM
Yeah rangers can hit in the high 800-900's, but that's with full buffs. This nerf fucks us rangers that don't typically group. I mean scouts can get full buffs and do the same exact thing minus the damage add. The assist stuff sucks no matter what it is assisting you, melee, casters, rangers, etc. Just another nerf catering to the casuals. Waaaaaaa instant death! Waaaa Waaa! I couldnt tell you how many times I was insta-gibbed by the debuff body/heat/cold caster trains, but no one says shit about that. Wtf, nerf everyone because some rangers like to play together. Might as well roll a fucking scout now.
Scouts can’t do same.
PF dex/quick buff is better than cleric
Lurikeen is better than Saracen

The later allows rangers to spend RA points differently

And then you top it off with DA

Q: in classic live did ranger have access to 5.5 weapon?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:10 PM by Estrema
Runental wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:45 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:10 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:50 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:34 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:20 PM
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 2:14 PM
but why scout only 4.5 reduce dmg ifa scout have buffed by a cleric make the same dm of ranger buff by a druid, is stupid this change because the problem is not the dmg of ranger but the scout that dont play in assist or in party at keep defense, if you want make a sense change give a 5.8 bow to scout or change the ranged of realm bow scout dont have self buff but 200 range+

How many scouts are actually buffed by cleric? They're doing the 9.0 damage reduction on rangers because they're much more likely to be using the PF dex/qui buff while scout is likely on pot buffs. Definitely not stupid.
this is the classic alb discussion, at hiib when we defend is not problem to group ranger and if we have druids we buff them is at alb you like go to stealth party for kill solo and dong go with polemo is your problem non a class problem, gm have give you a mod cheat with no immunity snare and you cry. repeat the problem is not a ranger but scout play style

and if you dont understand this is because you need to learn how to play a daoc

there are numerous hib stealth groups who also just roam around and kill solos/small. That's where my perspective is from and very likely the GMs perspective as well. Oh and ps. I don't play a scout and the only alb class I play at all anymore is a cleric. So assuming that I'm just an alb relenting in your misfortune instead of looking at this logically just makes you look like an ass lol.
the problem is not solo or group at moment at alb cry because in keep defense hib use ranger that are buffed from a druid too, but is not problem of dmg in this situation, because if scout make the same setup make the same dmg........................is easy to understand the base dmg is the same change only the ammount of dex that when ranger use self is high than scout with potion, when they biffed by a cleric/druid no is the same.

now if the problem is solo played because have self buff i remeber that ranger for have red buff and high bow demage dont train any in weapon and dont have defense, tthe scout that make like 50 dmg less have a shield and a no immunity style, you think that in solo play wht is better make 50 dmg or rest alive?

Dude, please, do all a favor and use a decent translator, or just stop with your arguments,- this English is a pain in the ars to read.
allora tiu scrivo in italiano magari cosi vediamo quanto sei bravo te a parlare una lingua diversa dalla tua
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:12 PM by Estrema
gotwqqd wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:53 PM
insanesanity wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:36 PM
Q: in classic live did ranger have access to 5.5 weapon?

yes but in classic have different ranged scout have 200 range+ than ranger if remeber
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:15 PM by inoeth
HAHAHA
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:17 PM by Forlornhope
gotwqqd wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:53 PM
insanesanity wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:36 PM
Yeah rangers can hit in the high 800-900's, but that's with full buffs. This nerf fucks us rangers that don't typically group. I mean scouts can get full buffs and do the same exact thing minus the damage add. The assist stuff sucks no matter what it is assisting you, melee, casters, rangers, etc. Just another nerf catering to the casuals. Waaaaaaa instant death! Waaaa Waaa! I couldnt tell you how many times I was insta-gibbed by the debuff body/heat/cold caster trains, but no one says shit about that. Wtf, nerf everyone because some rangers like to play together. Might as well roll a fucking scout now.
Scouts can’t do same.
PF dex/quick buff is better than cleric
Lurikeen is better than Saracen

The later allows rangers to spend RA points differently

And then you top it off with DA

Q: in classic live did ranger have access to 5.5 weapon?

He's assuming that they're nerfing them because of full druid buffed rangers in Bgs. But fails to realize the logic in nerfing the class with a red self dex/qui buff more than a class that is running only on pot buffs 95% of the time.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:21 PM by gromet12
gotwqqd wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:53 PM
insanesanity wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:36 PM
Yeah rangers can hit in the high 800-900's, but that's with full buffs. This nerf fucks us rangers that don't typically group. I mean scouts can get full buffs and do the same exact thing minus the damage add. The assist stuff sucks no matter what it is assisting you, melee, casters, rangers, etc. Just another nerf catering to the casuals. Waaaaaaa instant death! Waaaa Waaa! I couldnt tell you how many times I was insta-gibbed by the debuff body/heat/cold caster trains, but no one says shit about that. Wtf, nerf everyone because some rangers like to play together. Might as well roll a fucking scout now.
Scouts can’t do same.
PF dex/quick buff is better than cleric
Lurikeen is better than Saracen

The later allows rangers to spend RA points differently

And then you top it off with DA

Q: in classic live did ranger have access to 5.5 weapon?

Yes and PD...Melee rangers were the most common. This didn't change until the archer changes went live then you saw more archers going more range since they had options, this also changed the effect of the weapon speed as it was based on the "spell" speed, not the bow speed which helped balance the archers with hunters only having 5.0

Dragon campaign and Classic/Bossiney was the best time in the game to me having played on/off since 2001.

Edit: Range was never changed until after the archer changes, and then they just removed the elevation bonus and nothing more.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:26 PM by Astaa
You have to be mad to not think a ranger nerf was incoming.

That being said, can you please look at other classes?! (mincers!)
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM by Messerjockel
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:35 PM by Messerjockel
Astaa wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:26 PM
You have to be mad to not think a ranger nerf was incoming.

That being said, can you please look at other classes?! (mincers!)

Mincers are an important support class for Albs.
Adjustments, known as nerfs are not permitted.

Flup, hib
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:37 PM by Gaspard
Nice ! The less stealther = the more pvp action
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:52 PM by gruenesschaf
gromet12 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:51 PM
Am I the only one missing the additional PD changes here? So, casters (which ruin this game as much as sneak groups) get more survivability to melee dmg which is low already?

The staff should be politicians IMO

Blame the ranger/scout (which do need adjustments), but on the side let me increase the PD of casters which are already hard enough to kill as melee. PD doesn't need an increase, or let me know where my melee classes 50% debuff RESIST companion is so I can start running with them to do dmg?

Looks like you're suffering from selective blindness. Notice that there was also an increase to aom which arguably is even stronger if people were actually speccing it.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:56 PM by thirian24
Great changes, very much needed. Archers ruin 90% of our 8man fights. I think the next best step here would be to just delete stealth from the game.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:06 PM by Forlornhope
Astaa wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:26 PM
You have to be mad to not think a ranger nerf was incoming.

That being said, can you please look at other classes?! (mincers!)

Mins has been nerfed plenty of times already, and honestly the class is just cheesy and the only thing that really would "fix" them would be an extreme overhaul/change of their abilities. Sure, you can cap their pet level but that really wouldn't be that game changing of a nerf for anything but solo minstrels imo. But then, they'll still just throw their lower level pet on you and dd/kite you to death so that's really not going to change much.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:14 PM by Sunkissed
i need a statement from the devs about the real reason for the archer nerf.
You said the reason is the pupolation of archers(rangers)?

So what logic ist that?
If a class is popular then its gonna be nerfed into the ground to make people switch to another class?
So another class becomes popular then you're gonna nerf that class, too?

You didnt say that archer do too much damage, the only reason of the nerf seems to be the population numbers? So decreasing the damage which is no issue at all will be your method to make the class unpupolar again...

What the heck ist this?

If you really change the way assist works since the beginning of the game just for a single class then this whole server is done!
You will punish players for playing the game like it was designed to play, why there is assist?

There are so many players who are just not able to get the most of their possibilities with their chars and the game mechanics because they are simply not interested in it.
But some players ARE interested in it and take advantage of that. So they will be punished doing that.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:18 PM by Patron
Hello all, i hope you are well and good on health!!!

I can understand why the staff think its a good idea to do it this way.
And i dont want claim any topic or the "right way" to run a freeshard. In this point i trust the skills of the staffteam!

BUT the problem i have with the arguing and kind of telling!

Due to current events and hence the expected population gain in the near future the no changes stance will be relaxed a bit to allow a couple changes.

The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger, as well as make it more obvious how useful AoM / PD are and an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.

There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Changes:
- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%
- Scout shield style Stop had its duration reduced by 30%
- AoM and PD values have been raised and now end at 30% instead of 20% secondary resists
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items


The most sucking think on Uthgardstaff was the kind of communication with the community. And i see here similar misbehavior!

Why it should be right to reduce a archetype in a mmorpg? Is this a rule players should know? I reading big arrogance, when a leading staffmember claim a overpopulation of any class. In the end, it is not anymore the decision of the players which class we want to play? It is a decision of staff how much of any archetypes are "enough" and when the need is appearing to break a class intentionally, so its not get played moar.

What about the massive casteroverpopulation on Phoenix? Is this even a need to reduce a archetype? Would be nice to hear a word from the staff.
I hope you can understand what i mean, even my english is broke as rangers and champs now.
And i dont think its fair for the players which decide to go the stony way to lvl up and equip a archer.

Ok, till here i spoke about the feeled general arrogance of staffmember "gruenesschaf", to claim the decision how much of any class / archetypes are enough.
Now i want to speak about the "need to reduce Rangers".

When i follow the arguing in forums and iG, the problem is that rangers/archer grouping and assisting eachother to instantly kill any target, right?
Other archerclasses can do the same, why the ranger is here in focus of this problem?
Why the ranger is seen as OP, while scouts still have their clear advantage and minstrel still are unnerfed?

I thought about this tactic of assisting-archers for 8 years, didn´t know it is that much affective...

Oh and i rode about Polemo´s BG cant raid a tower because of 3 rangers assisting. Are you serious?
Alb is by far the most GTAOE-Realm, Theurgpets on door = open in 30s seconds, so why you guys are unable to open the tower?

Thanks, and to "gruenesschaf"= I dont mean it personal or evil, it is just my perception of your posting and claim of "enough archetypes".

It is something the community should know, when staff think there are "enough of a archetype", so we can avoid a nerf, just because of "too much archer, caster, tanks etc".

Thanks for attention and reading, would be nice to hear any oppinions of staff or community!

And thanks for Phoenix
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:20 PM by Neso
I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

Do it.
I suggest all archers join the assist stealth zerg so this gets implemented too:

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Also double the stealth detection range for nearby enemy stealthers, from what it already is.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:21 PM by Patron
And staff create a kind of frustration and missing planning, if the class, which i play today is allowed to play in the future, just because a "feeled overpopulation"
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:30 PM by Tamy
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

Little hint: Not beeing grouped but add every fight you see because you're too bad to kill something solo is not the definition of a solo ranger.
But I know reality can get a little bit washy when you camp at DC 24/7.

For me as a (real) solo player I prefer stealthzergs over "solo" rangers on every corner ready to add. Much more predictable.

Therefore I like this nerf thrown into the face of all these add rangers. :-)

Regarding AoM/PD: I would have rather seen a passive resist increase for full tanks like on live servers to give them a little buff and more purpose in group/sieges.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:37 PM by Bobbahunter
I’m not complaint about my bow dmg. But please let mid bows have same range as Other realms


Thank you
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:49 PM by inoeth
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

adding every fight is not soloing
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:50 PM by trawetsnivek
Tamy wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:30 PM
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

Little hint: Not beeing grouped but add every fight you see because you're too bad to kill something solo is not the definition of a solo ranger.
But I know reality can get a little bit washy when you camp at DC 24/7.

For me as a (real) solo player I prefer stealthzergs over "solo" rangers on every corner ready to add. Much more predictable.

Therefore I like this nerf thrown into the face of all these add rangers. :-)

Regarding AoM/PD: I would have rather seen a passive resist increase for full tanks like on live servers to give them a little buff and more purpose in group/sieges.

To be fair all solo rangers are garbage. I haven't lost to a solo ranger since I was low RR and doing dumb things like following them while they kite and restealth for a crit shot.

I'm all for a huge nerf to archery so long as archers are buffed up a tad in melee so they are actually viable solo. As it stands, archers are relegated to adding/leeching because they are too gimped to kill anything solo. Maybe if they are rr9+ they can RA dump every 15 min on an assassin and get a solo kill with their IP5.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:51 PM by swap89
stop reply on this forum guys...is useless...for ask a nerf u must play albs...i ask 10 time,watch the necro pet...give to them the gt 0 on pet and not on shade...they can drive ram with necro stuck in wall,they can come inside and give gt for all gt...they have class with 8 skill in 1 line ,but untouchable...
and now he nerf a ranger only because grp of people do assist with ranger...and because he can ONLY slow a zerg to take a keep...ONLY SLOW...1 grp of ranger dont stop a zerg albs with 100+...CAN ONLY SLOW...massive gtaoe,catapult,ns...
the fact is not the less damage,but the follow of GM of whining on <forum who wipe from ranger in keep...10 post for archery and they nerf...they not have clear idea,they not know what is the main problem and it's core...they only work following friend advice.
and this change IS USELESS...u fix 9%damage on grp of 6 ranger full buffed...what u expect they stop?they continue killing like now only because the work well togheter and do a very well assist...but probably the gm on this game not so smart

enjoy
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:55 PM by Expfighter
Bobbahunter wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:37 PM
I’m not complaint about my bow dmg. But please let mid bows have same range as Other realms


Thank you

and 5.5 speed bows as well!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:57 PM by keen
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:24 PM
Why do you continue to group the archery problem when everyone on this server knows that the main issue is Rangers!!!
-Why don't you consider changing the bow speed available to rangers. Instead of allowing them to have 5.5 spd bow reduce it to 5.0
rangers are op cause of their self buff line. their selfbuffs including dmg add needs to be tuned down.
I like the changes, seems good.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:58 PM by Messerjockel
inoeth wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:49 PM
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

adding every fight is not soloing

Love you too Eik :-)

Flup, hib
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:01 PM by Nidd
Bobbahunter wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:37 PM
I’m not complaint about my bow dmg. But please let mid bows have same range as Other realms


Thank you

no you have pets
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:04 PM by bigne88
thirian24 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:56 PM
Great changes, very much needed. Archers ruin 90% of our 8man fights. I think the next best step here would be to just delete stealth from the game.

This 100%
Maybe not delete stealth, because we have to allowd to noob players to do some activities as well, just put a % cap of stealthers that can log in based on visible population.

Ah, and I'd suggest to fix the /gvg CF command so an archer cant whipe 10k rps for free to 2 8men groups trying to have a clean figt. This reasonable RPs whipe, unfortunatelly, backfired to the point that only few 8v8 groups now list themself. This is causing a lot of frustration, loads of adding and zerging.

Scrolling discord this is a random statement: a guy logging an archer just to shoot 1 arrow on an 8v8 /cf to make them RPs whipe:

Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:07 PM by Stoertebecker
evert wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:34 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:29 PM
evert wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:28 PM
The argument that this will increase rangers grouping is hilarious; that might be true if you assume there are a 100% fixed number of rangers who play a fixed number of hours - in reality some fotm rangers will reroll or quit or play less. If it means larger groups of rangers that means less of them around - I'll take one group of 6 nerfed rangers camping one spot over 2 groups of 3 pre-nerf rangers camping different spots.

52 rangers online atm...questions?

Did you read what I posted? Post-nerf there won't be 52 rangers online and if they want to kill me as quickly as they do now they will need to be in bigger groups, equals less groups of rangers.

It don`t need a bigger group, just 1-2 arrows more, and if 4 archers pluggin their arrows into 1 target the target dies, no matter how fast or how many arrows are needed.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:09 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:49 PM
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

adding every fight is not soloing

Not grouped = solo , if you like it or not.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:21 PM by Saroi
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:18 PM
Why it should be right to reduce a archetype in a mmorpg? Is this a rule players should know? I reading big arrogance, when a leading staffmember claim a overpopulation of any class. In the end, it is not anymore the decision of the players which class we want to play? It is a decision of staff how much of any archetypes are "enough" and when the need is appearing to break a class intentionally, so its not get played moar.

Ofc it is the players that decide what to play but let us be honest here, 90% of the Rangers that are around atm were made after the Bow damage got increased. Till the first archer nerfs there were constantly over 100 Rangers on (Always most played) and after 2 nerfs to this point Rangers are still one of the top classes. So if a class gets strong after changes etc. and they get overhand then it is normal to nerf them to not be overpowered. That is not something just done on Phoenix, it is made in every game. I just say LA nerf back on live before ToA came out. This basically made every berserker player reroll a savage.

Rangers are popular because they had the biggest advantages on a lot of changes. At the start of phoenix everyone had access to 75 buffs through charges but that got removed and at the same time every self buff class got their buffs upped to the value of 75(Normally the dex/quick buff from rangers is lower). So Rangers for example did not lose any dex or quick while scouts did. So having highest dex/quick with slowest bow for highest damage is a big advantage compared to others. And after the archery buffs a lot of people rerolled Rangers for that.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:24 PM by Messerjockel
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
Due to current events and hence the expected population gain in the near future the no changes stance will be relaxed a bit to allow a couple changes.

The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger, as well as make it more obvious how useful AoM / PD are and an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.

There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Changes:
- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%
- Scout shield style Stop had its duration reduced by 30%
- AoM and PD values have been raised and now end at 30% instead of 20% secondary resists
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items



What are Ranger getting in return Grünes Schaf?
I don’t think you just nerf a class by close to 10% without offering something in return.

Flup, hib
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:31 PM by Forlornhope
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:24 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
Due to current events and hence the expected population gain in the near future the no changes stance will be relaxed a bit to allow a couple changes.

The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger, as well as make it more obvious how useful AoM / PD are and an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.

There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Changes:
- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%
- Scout shield style Stop had its duration reduced by 30%
- AoM and PD values have been raised and now end at 30% instead of 20% secondary resists
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items



What are Ranger getting in return Grünes Schaf?
I don’t think you just nerf a class by close to 10% without offering something in return.

Flup, hib

Why do people think nerfs need compensation without the changes being put through yet and tested? lol Give it time, let them actually implement the changes and see how it goes. Then come back here and propose reasonable fixes/adjustments for the staff to consider.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:31 PM by Kwall0311
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:24 PM
What are Ranger getting in return Grünes Schaf?
I don’t think you just nerf a class by close to 10% without offering something in return.

Flup, hib

Perhaps you are missing the point . And no, they dont have to give them anything in return. Infact they should take more.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:56 PM by thirian24
Tamy wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:30 PM
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

Little hint: Not beeing grouped but add every fight you see because you're too bad to kill something solo is not the definition of a solo ranger.
But I know reality can get a little bit washy when you camp at DC 24/7.

For me as a (real) solo player I prefer stealthzergs over "solo" rangers on every corner ready to add. Much more predictable.

Therefore I like this nerf thrown into the face of all these add rangers. :-)

Regarding AoM/PD: I would have rather seen a passive resist increase for full tanks like on live servers to give them a little buff and more purpose in group/sieges.

Im glad someone said it, lmao.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:01 PM by Terrorsauce
The nerf to archery is as stupid as the people that want it. Its not ranger dmg that is an issue, its just the ranger population. You can nerf ranger bow dmg by 20% and if 6 rangers open on you...you still die. Your precious 8v8 duels still get added on. The same people that cry for this nerf will still cry about the same things they do now. Nothing will change. A year or so ago and in Beta it was "scout scout scout scout" "nerf nerf nerf nerf." In the end you had to add to most ridiculous style ever made to make scouts better. What do you think you will have to do for rangers in a few months? Its a silly cycle brought on by a minority play style that has a few very vocal whiners that get into the devs ear. This nerf only hurts the SOLO player. NOT GROUPS OF STEALTHERS/RANGERS. THERE IS NO CHANGE. YOU STILL DIE. What happens to the solo player? They just quit and leave the server like everyone else is doing because of silly nerfs. Congrats you made a few more players leave and the ranger groups still play because its still the same. Insanity.

I love that we were supposed to be getting RR5, and some style changes and some buffs to lame spec lines for certain classes. The community freaks out. Cries about bow users and this is what the staff comes up with? Stick to the original plan and your server might actually grow in population. Let the whiners get this change through and will lose just keep bleeding pop numbers.

Ill let you devs in on a secret. The 8v8 duelers who are pushing all these changes are not the majority of the server. So unless you want 3 groups of 8v8 running around with a dead server I suggest you stop listening to their game change ideas and instead listen to the majority of your player base in order to save population numbers.

Warhammer Return of Reckoning has more concurrent players than Phoenix. You have to make some really bad design decisions to make that happen. But it says a lot. Warhammer was a dead game on release. The emu devs for that game didnt wake up and magically make it better, or add major changes that made the game better to play. Nope. Phoenix just got worse. This is what happens when you listen to one group of people over and over and over.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:04 PM by thirian24
Terrorsauce wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:01 PM
Ill let you devs in on a secret. The 8v8 duelers who are pushing all these changes are not the majority of the server. So unless you want 3 groups of 8v8 running around with a dead server I suggest you stop listening to their game change ideas and instead listen to the majority of your player base in order to save population numbers.

So listen to the population that beats on doors and thinks warden is underpowered? Lol

And I dont think the staff is listening to 1 particular group of people, when a huge majority of the community thinks archers are cancer.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:08 PM by Terrorsauce
This nerf only hurts the SOLO player. NOT GROUPS OF STEALTHERS/RANGERS. THERE IS NO CHANGE. YOU STILL DIE. What happens to the solo player? They just quit and leave the server like everyone else is doing because of silly nerfs. Congrats you made a few more players leave and the ranger groups still play because its still the same.

Im not sure the end goal was to bleed server pop. But who knows with the way things have been going maybe a quick death and a refresh is what this server needs. /shrug.

Fact:

If the 8v8 duelers population left - Sever still thrives. Server lives. Everything is fine. Nothing of value is lost.

If the zerg/solo population left - Server dies. There is nothing but 3 groups of duelers running around screaming about fair fights.


Just the way it is. Some of you are just not as important as you think you are.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:25 PM by Azrael
Terrorsauce wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:08 PM
This nerf only hurts the SOLO player. NOT GROUPS OF STEALTHERS/RANGERS. THERE IS NO CHANGE. YOU STILL DIE. What happens to the solo player? They just quit and leave the server like everyone else is doing because of silly nerfs. Congrats you made a few more players leave and the ranger groups still play because its still the same.

Im not sure the end goal was to bleed server pop. But who knows with the way things have been going maybe a quick death and a refresh is what this server needs. /shrug.

Fact:

If the 8v8 duelers population left - Sever still thrives. Server lives. Everything is fine. Nothing of value is lost.

If the zerg/solo population left - Server dies. There is nothing but 3 groups of duelers running around screaming about fair fights.


Just the way it is. Some of you are just not as important as you think you are.

For sure, let's call the bunch of stealthers/rangers who poppin out during a fight "solos". D
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:42 PM by Bradekes
thirian24 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:04 PM
Terrorsauce wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:01 PM
Ill let you devs in on a secret. The 8v8 duelers who are pushing all these changes are not the majority of the server. So unless you want 3 groups of 8v8 running around with a dead server I suggest you stop listening to their game change ideas and instead listen to the majority of your player base in order to save population numbers.

So listen to the population that beats on doors and thinks warden is underpowered? Lol

And I dont think the staff is listening to 1 particular group of people, when a huge majority of the community thinks archers are cancer.

We have to fight to beat down the doors. Beating down empty doors is just to start a fight, it's kinda how this game is meant to be played... or was it a fluke that Mystic put keeps and towers in the endgame? or were those meant to be little homes for you 8v8 to stop and drink coffee between your /bow fights.

Also no one says warden are underpowered per se, more that they should fit more of their hybrid role than a pure support class.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:49 PM by Davidalmightydaoc85
I have no problem with this, but could you please increase the scouts melee damage? Scouts have literally the worst melee in the game. Casters with their staves hit harder than a scout with a weapon. Hunters have their spear and rangers have celtic duel and both classes can actually spec that and be a viable class. Scouts can't spec melee and compete with either class, let alone other classes in the realms. That's why they had the 5.5 slower speed bow for more damage, because they were only really an archer and nothing more.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:53 PM by Stoertebecker
Terrorsauce wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:01 PM
Warhammer Return of Reckoning has more concurrent players than Phoenix. You have to make some really bad design decisions to make that happen. But it says a lot. Warhammer was a dead game on release. The emu devs for that game didnt wake up and magically make it better, or add major changes that made the game better to play. Nope. Phoenix just got worse. This is what happens when you listen to one group of people over and over and over.

RoR had more players for the last 10 month, has nothing to do with bad decissions on phoenix. RoR has a great staff, like we have here on Phoenix.

Afaik RoR has a backup server for testing stuff, don`t know if the Phoenix staff has something similar.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:59 PM by Beeblebrox
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:53 PM
Terrorsauce wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 7:01 PM
Warhammer Return of Reckoning has more concurrent players than Phoenix. You have to make some really bad design decisions to make that happen. But it says a lot. Warhammer was a dead game on release. The emu devs for that game didnt wake up and magically make it better, or add major changes that made the game better to play. Nope. Phoenix just got worse. This is what happens when you listen to one group of people over and over and over.

RoR had more players for the last 10 month, has nothing to do with bad decissions on phoenix. RoR has a great staff, like we have here on Phoenix.

Afaik RoR has a backup server for testing stuff, don`t know if the Phoenix staff has something similar.

I think having a test server would benefit Phoenix tremendously. At least people would have some real data to argue over.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM by Patron
Saroi wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:21 PM
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:18 PM
Why it should be right to reduce a archetype in a mmorpg? Is this a rule players should know? I reading big arrogance, when a leading staffmember claim a overpopulation of any class. In the end, it is not anymore the decision of the players which class we want to play? It is a decision of staff how much of any archetypes are "enough" and when the need is appearing to break a class intentionally, so its not get played moar.

... So if a class gets strong after changes etc. and they get overhand then it is normal to nerf them to not be overpowered. That is not something just done on Phoenix, it is made in every game. I just say LA nerf back on live before ToA came out. This basically made every berserker player reroll a savage.



yeah it is a big difference if a class got nerfed because it is too stronk!!! No problem with that. But that was not the point of gruenesschaf. The point was, because it is too much played class.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:13 PM by gruenesschaf
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM
yeah it is a big difference if a class got nerfed because it is too stronk!!! No problem with that. But that was not the point of gruenesschaf. The point was, because it is too much played class.

As I wrote in some other thread, the reason why minstrel and skald are super popular is obvious, it's a solo / small / group viable class with speed 5. The same reason doesn't exist for archers, or rather ranger specifically.
The thing rangers have going for them is stealth and ranged damage, hunter has the same but does the least ranged damage of the 3 archers and is the least played, on that basis alone, even if you were to ignore the actual damage numbers, this allows the reasonable inference that at the very least the player perception of the ranger damage is that it is too high.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:30 PM by labra
I understand a tone down was mandatory. I played my ranger only pve but even there it was the most efficient solo xp (I don't play casters, only melee). I understand being hit at 900-1100 is pretty op.

This adjustment would have been perfect with style change, giving rangers the choice to go back to melee.

Let see how it works and find out how stealther (and server pop) is affected.

I agree with people claiming it won't change getting killed by stealther assist, mostly affecting solo players.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:30 PM by kosen
Come on guys, again because off player base a class gets a nerf...
I solo 90% of my time on my Ranger, and yes i add on 8man, and yes Its proberly frustrating for them, but thats the game.. i am also getting steamrolled by 8man using stealth pots, and added when i 1v1 etc, but thats the game...
i am 7L5, with aug dex 9, and 40/50 bow, and yes that gives sometimes some Big Numbers, but Its a large investment too!

See ya out there!
/fnk
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:56 PM by Sunkissed
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:13 PM
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM
yeah it is a big difference if a class got nerfed because it is too stronk!!! No problem with that. But that was not the point of gruenesschaf. The point was, because it is too much played class.

As I wrote in some other thread, the reason why minstrel and skald are super popular is obvious, it's a solo / small / group viable class with speed 5. The same reason doesn't exist for archers, or rather ranger specifically.
The thing rangers have going for them is stealth and ranged damage, hunter has the same but does the least ranged damage of the 3 archers and is the least played, on that basis alone, even if you were to ignore the actual damage numbers, this allows the reasonable inference that at the very least the player perception of the ranger damage is that it is too high.

This so called discussion is senseless here.
First you say the is based on population numbers...now its the damage...and the damage is too high?
Where is it too high?
What was the intention 6to boost archer damage in a patch long time before?
What are the calculations and the math in your nerf?
Nothing is explained...it's just staed out something without proof....just based on whining in the forum...

So why we are discussing here when you only listen to a minority of whiners who cry out loud in every single thread.

And the numbers you explained concerning skald and minst is rudiculous....atm 59 minst online....all in the 59 groups running right now?!
So dividing classes into group viability and then deciding archers aree not group viable so they have to be lesser numbers is ridiculous.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:02 PM by kosen
And yes, when multiple Archers assist, peeps die, but that also hapends when casters assist, Or melees!

If nerf gets in because of OP’ness, Rangers shouldent be the first ones to look at!

/fnk
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:03 PM by Bobbahunter
You could reduce the cost of Lucidity (stealth lore pots) to 5 claws. That would help reduce stealth population too. Plus we stealther would also help reduce ourselves even more lol
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:05 PM by Patron
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:13 PM
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM
yeah it is a big difference if a class got nerfed because it is too stronk!!! No problem with that. But that was not the point of gruenesschaf. The point was, because it is too much played class.

As I wrote in some other thread, the reason why minstrel and skald are super popular is obvious, it's a solo / small / group viable class with speed 5. The same reason doesn't exist for archers, or rather ranger specifically.
The thing rangers have going for them is stealth and ranged damage, hunter has the same but does the least ranged damage of the 3 archers and is the least played, on that basis alone, even if you were to ignore the actual damage numbers, this allows the reasonable inference that at the very least the player perception of the ranger damage is that it is too high.

Thanks for your reaction!
Its still very weird to me, to nerf a class with the aim to lower the population, because it is too much played. And a specific class of a realm in much harder way.
It just smells like a realmnerf, not a archetype-nerf.
Other realms dont assisttrain archers?

And beside, Bard = 50, Minst = 62, Skald = 62 at primetime CET. The reason is not, because skald and minst are very good solo, smallman, group, zergclasses?
Ofc its a question if efficiency. Skald and Minst are better Classes then Bard, thats why they got more played! Any intentions to nerf them? Why not? So why Rangers?

the player perception
Serious, the players perception is corrupted and not a valid base to decide smth. I know that you know this, because its a fundamental rule of servermanagement!

So your base to decide the needed nerf are "players perception"? You dont do the calculation for yourself? Ouch... so much ouch!
And very interessting, you wrote about Rangers and Hunters, but the FOTM-OP-Archer class SCOUT not called. I just can fantasize why they are not get nerfed...

But again, thx for the reaction gruenesschaf. This showing me it is still a amateur project without a professional claim. Thats why this server is permanent endangered to loose population, because you communicate very unluckily and made decisions because of players perception and players whining.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:39 PM by Arafel
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items


Would you be kind enough to give the reduction value and precise what do you intend by items ?

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.


What do you mean by that ?

The only true solo situation is a duel which is very rare as you are, more often than not, added by others or attacked by more than one person at once.
And in that case, it is not a solo situation at all, so will champion debuffs be fully effective when engaged by more than one person ?



And please have a look at some alb classes for futur nerf and don't nerf hunters
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:48 PM by Freudinio
Thanks for all your hard work. Much love!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:50 PM by skipari
Arafel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:39 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items


Would you be kind enough to give the reduction value and precise what do you intend by items ?

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.


What do you mean by that ?

The only true solo situation is a duel which is very rare as you are, more often than not, added by others or attacked by more than one person at once.
And in that case, it is not a solo situation at all, so will champion debuffs be fully effective when engaged by more than one person ?



And please don't nerf hunters and have a look at some alb classes

From discord today:
[13:41] gruenes_schaf: @Hector currently they have a 2x debuff against fully buffed targets, afterwards it'll be 1.5 against item buffed and still 2x fully buffed
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:53 PM by Arafel
skipari wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:50 PM
From discord today:
[13:41] gruenes_schaf: @Hector currently they have a 2x debuff against fully buffed targets, afterwards it'll be 1.5 against item buffed and still 2x fully buffed

thank you very much
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:04 PM by DarkDavion
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:13 PM
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM
yeah it is a big difference if a class got nerfed because it is too stronk!!! No problem with that. But that was not the point of gruenesschaf. The point was, because it is too much played class.

As I wrote in some other thread, the reason why minstrel and skald are super popular is obvious, it's a solo / small / group viable class with speed 5. The same reason doesn't exist for archers, or rather ranger specifically.
The thing rangers have going for them is stealth and ranged damage, hunter has the same but does the least ranged damage of the 3 archers and is the least played, on that basis alone, even if you were to ignore the actual damage numbers, this allows the reasonable inference that at the very least the player perception of the ranger damage is that it is too high.

What is your goal? why nerf the champ? Are they too many?

I play a lot of solo Champ.
He is very strong vs melee classes but weaker than mincer and with toys down(purge/ST/IP) even infis can get rid of champ very quick/easy and obviously a lot of casters win vs him very easy.
I would be happy if u manage to make him more balanced vs other melee but nerfing the debuff value is wrong, i suggest increasing the cooldown of the debuffs bcs u can get rid of them with purge and u must manage when unleash them.
BTW the Champ cant 8v8 propely bcs ppl just want BM and Hero, at this point if u nerf the debuff value too, u are completely deleting him from the group setup even more...

Another better nerf for me is removing slam. Slam in more for groups and there are classes that fit better than champs.
The combo with Slam and ST in solo is too much strong and slam can be used by monkeys too, at least with the 50/50 spec u need to be able to land positionals for be effective. In my opinion u should consider to change the super cheese anytime snare of scout in a positional back/side snare for the same reason.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:04 PM by Tenny
thirian24 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:56 PM
Great changes, very much needed. Archers ruin 90% of our 8man fights. I think the next best step here would be to just delete stealth from the game.

You know if 8mans didn't just red-is-dead everything in sight, people might play stealthers less.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:14 PM by skipari
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM
...
BTW the Champ cant 8v8 propely bcs ppl just want BM and Hero, at this point if u nerf the debuff value too, u are completely deleting him from the group setup even more...
...

the debuff value against buffed values stays the same, so group play isn't touched with this change, only debuff against pots/items will be lower
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:21 PM by gruenesschaf
Patron wrote: So your base to decide the needed nerf are "players perception"? You dont do the calculation for yourself? Ouch... so much ouch!
And very interessting, you wrote about Rangers and Hunters, but the FOTM-OP-Archer class SCOUT not called. I just can fantasize why they are not get nerfed...

Pretty much all nerfs and buffs in all MMOs are at least partially based on player perception. The damage for archers, rangers in particular, is quite high since the archery buff. It was / is mostly fine in case of 1vs1 / a single archer on a target but it's no longer fine with multiple against the same target as it quite literally leads to instant kills from stealth, the meta hence shifted a bit making this occurrence a lot more common which is a problem.

When an ability is OP and nobody uses it chances are quite high that it will not get nerfed, only when people use it will people realize how op it actually is and over time a lot more people will use it eventually leading to someone looking into it and/or the problem getting out of hand. This happened for example with dot reapplication on every swing becoming a lot more common due to /switch, entirely los free gtaes in keep fights, stacking twf / st and now archers / rangers in assist.
You can be quite sure that something else will become fotm / become a bigger problem and some of that will then show that even something that may have existed for quite a while is actually a problem if used enough / under specific (now more common) circumstances.

The same is usually also true for useless abilities, as long as nobody really complaints about it chances are high nothing will be done about them and the reason you usually don't hear complaints in those cases is that there are viable alternatives. A good example here would be something like veil recovery, it's pretty much entirely useless yet nobody complaints about it because there are enough alternatives, same for menta menta, sure it would be nice to buff it but nobody really sees it as a huge problem. An example from another game would be retail wow with certain talents broken / useless for a whole expansion but nobody really cares all that much as you have 2 alternatives on the same row.

And what are you talking about regarding scout, have you tried reading the opening post? As for why I left it out in the last post, well in terms of damage as well as population it was usually inbetween ranger and hunter, if not absolute then at least in terms of relative to the pop count.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:21 PM by Davidalmightydaoc85
I want to add one more thing. If you are going to add to AoM and PD, then you need to return the dps to the infi, ns, and sb the same it used to be. Getting a Perf off for 250 damage, is BS. Also, switch the rangers back to the lower dps bow and give scouts their old dps or boost their melee damage.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:32 PM by Sunkissed
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:21 PM
It was / is mostly fine in case of 1vs1 / a single archer on a target but it's no longer fine with multiple against the same target as it quite literally leads to instant kills from stealth, the meta hence shifted a bit making this occurrence a lot more common which is a problem.


with this statement you ought to nerf every single assisttrain in this game. Where is the difference of a caster- melee or archer-assisttrain? The only difference is that archers can shoot of stealth for the very first target
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:37 PM by poplik
Sunkissed wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:32 PM
The only difference is that archers can shoot of stealth for the very first target

ding ding ding
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:39 PM by DarkDavion
skipari wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:14 PM
Patron wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:07 PM
...
BTW the Champ cant 8v8 propely bcs ppl just want BM and Hero, at this point if u nerf the debuff value too, u are completely deleting him from the group setup even more...
...

the debuff value against buffed values stays the same, so group play isn't touched with this change, only debuff against pots/items will be lower
Champ right now is good only for solo/small man so you are hitting him hard without adding nothing useful for make him more group viable.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:52 PM by paqdizzle
Dear Phoenix... Stop ruining archers as a whole and just fix the real problem at hand.. I don't understand why if rangers are to blame for archery being the way it is, to punish ALL archery across the board..

We're all just trying to play daoc.. we all know going into this game means you're going to get ganked, and rightfully so. you solo? well GG cause you're going to get rekt by 8mans that swear up and down: It's the sneaks that ruin 8v8 fights, but then continue to be lame and zerg everything down, then run from another 8man... Then you got solo/small mans jumping in on legit 8v8 fights and here comes the stereotypes of sneaks getting trashed as if you only gank. so it's a crap ton of finger pointing when deep down we ALL know what needs to be done, and it's NOT nerfing archery as a whole.. Sorry but this is just getting annoying..

Put it this way, since beta, my scout lost over 250 damage on his critshots, then they "Fix" scouts by making ALL archery benefit from higher bow spec, which made rangers the flavor of the month.. Now we're getting another nerf to archery as a whole rather than just fixing rangers specifically. Stop fluctuating the damage on scouts. As far as the snare getting a 30% decrease to the duration- it's w/e. it's still usable and critical in fights. but I would suggest removing the endurance drain that comes from it too. you can't just nerf the duration and leave the amount of stamina required alone... not if the nerf is shedding several seconds off the snare. if you're taking 30% off it's duration, then fix how much stamina it takes accordingly.

I don't understand how people can complain about a snare/root that comes from scouts, when animists have a better one that can be placed multiple times and doesn't take nearly the same amount of resources. or an arms that can do more damage at the same range as a scout but with polearm damage AND a snare that still doesn't take as much stamina as "Stop". I don't get the nerfs on phoenix sometimes, specially when we have all these OP builds and group synergies knowing damn well scouts don't roll in groups(groups with heals, cc and peels)((which is why we see archers group with other sneaks instead)) because of their synergy lacks by comparison. Then again this community QQs entirely too often about such simplistic things... I remember this game used to have a bane for every class. there was always a class that was made to beat you. now it's so custom and people are dying and HATE it so they QQ until devs address it which kills what daoc had in place. it was competitive and was intended to be as such. Solo caster getting shot by multiple archers SHOULD be a dead caster... stop complaining as if you're supposed to live through everything and die like the rest of us. take it on the chin and move on. cause we're getting odd nerfs that shouldn't even have happened.. We got people actually being serious in the thread stating to remove sneaks from the game............. ffs... are you kidding right now? I for real can't believe half of what these nerfs stemmed from.. it's sad. and tbh poor decision making skills from phoenix devs. don't get me wrong, they are doing a fine job, but to a point. I give credit where it's due, but not this time around.

**Scouts have been good, to terrible, to meh, to good again, and now we're going to be just "alright". We never had good or even halfway decent melee so stop forgetting that. Nor do we even want our melee to be buffed. Scouts were always about Archery primarily. Rangers were both archery and melee, Hunters were melee/pet, and meh archery. don't forget the fundamentals of archery classes please. we're going back and forth too much with these changes with archery and it always seems to be when I start playing my scout again. tired of arguing about what scouts used to be in daoc with people who forgot or never knew but act like they know best. go play a different game if you don't like dying to people who SHOULD be able to kill you specially if you're slipping up. Tired of casters dying and QQing about getting 3 tapped when THEY'VE BEEN DOING THAT TO EVERY CLASS since beta..**

Plus half this community and it's keyboard warriors troll so bad that people don't even want to comment how they really feel cause they get bullied out of the forums.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:09 PM by Forlornhope
kosen wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:30 PM
Come on guys, again because off player base a class gets a nerf...
I solo 90% of my time on my Ranger, and yes i add on 8man, and yes Its proberly frustrating for them, but thats the game.. i am also getting steamrolled by 8man using stealth pots, and added when i 1v1 etc, but thats the game...
i am 7L5, with aug dex 9, and 40/50 bow, and yes that gives sometimes some Big Numbers, but Its a large investment too!

See ya out there!
/fnk

You're the only solo ranger I've actually seen in the past month, have had a few good fights with ya the past week. <3
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:38 PM by Jayv
sorry for my english.
I don't understand what"s the problem with the champ ? Champ is a solo class, and no one are playing champs, when /serverinfo, there is a a tons of minstrel/skald, but i see no nerf on these class ?
Champ has no instant mezz/stun, no speed, no pets and soon no deBuffs ?
How i have to play my champ ? atm no one want a champ in bg/8V8 because there is better dps and better tank and soon no one will need champ in solo/small...
Why kill a class already under-represented on the server?
then now with useless debuffs, champ is a class with hybrid HP pool/ hybrid dps, one little DD and one snare... very nice if you compare with skald/mins...
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:39 PM by Noashakra
I don't understand why champs are mad. This change is long due. They are top 2 duelers. It's one of the few classes that can kill 8L/9L+ when they are 3L. Only ministrels are above.
Don't worry, I don't expect champions to be bad, they will most likely keep their position of second best duelers.

And the solution doesn't change their situations in groups. So it's a clever nerf.

now with useless debuffs, champ is a class with hybrid HP pool/ hybrid dps, one little DD and one snare... very nice if you compare with skald/mins...
Yeah WoC and the TS stun combo is very weak, eveyone know that.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:48 PM by trawetsnivek
Jayv wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:38 PM
sorry for my english.
I don't understand what"s the problem with the champ ? Champ is a solo class, and no one are playing champs, when /serverinfo, there is a a tons of minstrel/skald, but i see no nerf on these class ?
Champ has no instant mezz/stun, no speed, no pets and soon no deBuffs ?
How i have to play my champ ? atm no one want a champ in bg/8V8 because there is better dps and better tank and soon no one will need champ in solo/small...
Why kill a class already under-represented on the server?
then now with useless debuffs, champ is a class with hybrid HP pool/ hybrid dps, one little DD and one snare... very nice if you compare with skald/mins...

Doesn't matter how many people play champs, they are OP in solo play. Doesn't matter if 40 are online or 10 are online. You don't balance classes based on population. They aren't killing champs either, that is hyperbole. They are just toning down the debuffs a notch. Don't worry, you will still be able to kill stuff, might take you a bit longer now.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:12 AM by Horus
"The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger,"

What is the target Ranger population? Currently they are 6th on the list.

[19:09:27] Albion: 269
[19:09:27] Midgard: 222
[19:09:27] Hibernia: 218
[19:09:27] --------------
[19:09:27] Classes:
[19:09:27] Necromancer: 35
[19:09:27] Shadowblade: 32
[19:09:27] Cleric: 31
[19:09:27] Minstrel: 31
[19:09:27] Healer: 28
[19:09:27] Ranger: 27
[19:09:27] Skald: 26
[19:09:27] Scout: 25
[19:09:27] Shaman: 24
[19:09:27] Druid: 24
[19:09:27] Nightshade: 23
[19:09:27] Bard: 22
[19:09:27] Animist: 22
[19:09:27] Cabalist: 21
[19:09:27] Hunter: 21
[19:09:27] Friar: 20
[19:09:27] Eldritch: 19
[19:09:27] Sorcerer: 18
[19:09:27] Bonedancer: 18
[19:09:27] Wizard: 17
[19:09:27] Reaver: 17
[19:09:27] Paladin: 17
[19:09:27] Berserker: 15
[19:09:27] Spiritmaster: 14
[19:09:27] Warrior: 14
[19:09:27] Valewalker: 13
[19:09:27] Enchanter: 13
[19:09:27] Runemaster: 13
[19:09:27] Champion: 13
[19:09:27] Mentalist: 13
[19:09:27] Warden: 12
[19:09:27] Theurgist: 11
[19:09:27] Blademaster: 10
[19:09:27] Armswoman: 9
[19:09:27] Thane: 9
[19:09:27] Infiltrator: 9
[19:09:27] Mercenary: 9
[19:09:27] Savage: 7
[19:09:27] Hero: 7
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:14 AM by tassadar13
FINALLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope it will be enough even if I doubt it.

At least the devs have figured out that there is a problem and that's just great. Tired of seeing a member of the group get OS just because he was exposed for 1 second. This toxic ranger community had taken me away from the game.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:16 AM by easytoremember
Estrema wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:10 PM
Runental wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 3:45 PM
Dude, please, do all a favor and use a decent translator, or just stop with your arguments,- this English is a pain in the ars to read.
allora tiu scrivo in italiano magari cosi vediamo quanto sei bravo te a parlare una lingua diversa dalla tua
Your english is unconventional but easily understood, ignore that guy
Mon 2 Nov 2020 1:17 AM by easytoremember
Tamy wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:30 PM
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

Little hint: Not beeing grouped but add every fight you see because you're too bad to kill something solo is not the definition of a solo ranger.
But I know reality can get a little bit washy when you camp at DC 24/7.

For me as a (real) solo player I prefer stealthzergs over "solo" rangers on every corner ready to add. Much more predictable.

Therefore I like this nerf thrown into the face of all these add rangers. :-)
"real" solo and "real" 8v8 isn't DAoC
I didn't fall in love with men betraying their realm for clean fights. Semantist dancing with enemy gets the arrow too
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:21 AM by paqdizzle
Horus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:12 AM
"The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger,"

What is the target Ranger population? Currently they are 6th on the list.

[19:09:27] Albion: 269
[19:09:27] Midgard: 222
[19:09:27] Hibernia: 218
[19:09:27] --------------
[19:09:27] Classes:
[19:09:27] Necromancer: 35
[19:09:27] Shadowblade: 32
[19:09:27] Cleric: 31
[19:09:27] Minstrel: 31
[19:09:27] Healer: 28
[19:09:27] Ranger: 27
[19:09:27] Skald: 26
[19:09:27] Scout: 25
[19:09:27] Shaman: 24
[19:09:27] Druid: 24
[19:09:27] Nightshade: 23
[19:09:27] Bard: 22
[19:09:27] Animist: 22
[19:09:27] Cabalist: 21
[19:09:27] Hunter: 21
[19:09:27] Friar: 20
[19:09:27] Eldritch: 19
[19:09:27] Sorcerer: 18
[19:09:27] Bonedancer: 18
[19:09:27] Wizard: 17
[19:09:27] Reaver: 17
[19:09:27] Paladin: 17
[19:09:27] Berserker: 15
[19:09:27] Spiritmaster: 14
[19:09:27] Warrior: 14
[19:09:27] Valewalker: 13
[19:09:27] Enchanter: 13
[19:09:27] Runemaster: 13
[19:09:27] Champion: 13
[19:09:27] Mentalist: 13
[19:09:27] Warden: 12
[19:09:27] Theurgist: 11
[19:09:27] Blademaster: 10
[19:09:27] Armswoman: 9
[19:09:27] Thane: 9
[19:09:27] Infiltrator: 9
[19:09:27] Mercenary: 9
[19:09:27] Savage: 7
[19:09:27] Hero: 7

nerf heros!
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:54 AM by Pogmothan
Can we just skip the silliness and just get to this:

There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Your "changes" are not going to effect what the real issue is.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:12 AM by IdiamVonGawaine
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
Due to current events and hence the expected population gain in the near future the no changes stance will be relaxed a bit to allow a couple changes.

The changes aim to reduce the archer population, specifically ranger, as well as make it more obvious how useful AoM / PD are and an adjustment to the champ debuff multiplier in typical solo situations.

There are 2 potential ways the archer population reduction can go, the first one we'll try is a general damage reduction. If that does not have the desired effect these changes will be partially reverted and another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Changes:
- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%
- Scout shield style Stop had its duration reduced by 30%
- AoM and PD values have been raised and now end at 30% instead of 20% secondary resists
- Champion only extra debuff effectiveness has been reduced against buffs from items


How about instead of nerfing archers, you make shield spec more effective at protecting people FROM archers. You guys ever think about that? Doubt it.

If you want to reduce the number of rangers, than make the realm timer ONE WEEK instead of 4 hours. You'll reduce the ranger pop by 30-40% at least.

First, your archery model was already far inferior to casted damage, even at 50 in bow and 48 in PF. I have demonstrated that fact right here on this forum with actual numbers from the game using my archer and casters as test subjects. My archer couldn't even equal the DPS of a baseline sorc lifetap spell!!!! Now you're not only planning on punishing individual archers by directly attacking their damage, but you're also trying to prohibit their ability to ASSIST? What is wrong with you people? They assist exactly because they have to....because you keep nerfing their damage, making it almost impossible to kill anything alone. If you attack archers for assisting, then melee and caster characters should also be punished for doing what YOU the designer FORCE them to do through your manipulation of the damage codes.

What about assisting with siege? What about the caster debuff trains? What about the melee trains? Those are fine? NONSENSE. You are obviously just acting on the biased opinion of players that don't play archers, and or have a problem with not being able to defeat every enemy on the field.

Second, AoM is vastly inferior to PD due to the fact that magic damage is far superior in this game than melee damage. A 10% penalty to melee damage takes FAR longer to make up for in time, by the melee character, than a 10% penalty to casted damage. This is because melee are PUNISHED by increasing their melee speed through a loss in style damage, and they are capped at 1.5 swing speeds. Meanwhile the caster loses NO dps for increasing their cast speed, and is capped at 40% of their spell delve? So the melee characters suffer a damage loss, get capped at 1.5 swing speed, while a caster suffers NO such damage loss and can cast under 1.5 seconds with the right RA's and buffs. This server is already dominated by caster groups, and your AoM/PD changes will just make that worse. We already have self blade turn, casted blade turn, heal procs, ablative procs, AND PD for casters, there is zero need to add more.

You guys should just delete stealth and melee characters already and give us a chance to exchange them for the caster/support char of our choice at same level and realm rank. At least remove them from the creation menu, since you hold an obvious bias against them. Would save people a lot of time and grief, since you keep nerfing them into further obsolescence.

Just create the caster/support server you obviously want, and knock off the pretense already.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:32 AM by Lawdawg
Is this an attempt to penalize archers for grouping ? What's next, damage reduction for tank trains, or caster assist? This is a very slippery slope that appears to be a nerf directed at grouping together and assisting, which is the whole principal of rvr .

This is a terrible change imo. Not to mention, rangers could spec melee and be fine, hunters can spec melee and be fine (and should be melee already..), and scouts can spec melee and die... This will be completely unbalanced.

The previous mentioned melee changes would've been much better than this. Maybe fix SB 2 hand dmg? instead of penalizing grouping in a game designed around grouping....

Terrible idea.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:13 AM by ExcretusMaximus
Reading all of the whining in this thread is fun.

Please continue.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:49 AM by Cotea
bigne88 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:04 PM
thirian24 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:56 PM
Great changes, very much needed. Archers ruin 90% of our 8man fights. I think the next best step here would be to just delete stealth from the game.

This 100%
Maybe not delete stealth, because we have to allowd to noob players to do some activities as well, just put a % cap of stealthers that can log in based on visible population.

Ah, and I'd suggest to fix the /gvg CF command so an archer cant whipe 10k rps for free to 2 8men groups trying to have a clean figt. This reasonable RPs whipe, unfortunatelly, backfired to the point that only few 8v8 groups now list themself. This is causing a lot of frustration, loads of adding and zerging.

Scrolling discord this is a random statement: a guy logging an archer just to shoot 1 arrow on an 8v8 /cf to make them RPs whipe:



Then make /gvg unable to get RPs except off another gvg, as they also love to gank solos, duos and small man....it's a 2 way street..... I've seen gvg groups add on other fights except another gvg that's happening....
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:06 AM by Cotea
Tenny wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:04 PM
thirian24 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:56 PM
Great changes, very much needed. Archers ruin 90% of our 8man fights. I think the next best step here would be to just delete stealth from the game.

You know if 8mans didn't just red-is-dead everything in sight, people might play stealthers less.

I'm glad someone said it....
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:12 AM by Noashakra
Hwwat is a good guy, but I must remember him he told me to stop complain in a thread I made about nerfing relax attack, telling me that people should stop crying and asking for nerfs in this game.

And there he is, asking to nerf/delete stealthers, after having one NS 11L.

You can't have your cake and eat it too mate.

I don't care about your 8vs8, the gvg list are the worst hypocrite on this server. Doing their 8vs8 on task zones, near keep in flames, so they have an excuse to turn on adders and make easy rps. They do this because those are also the best places to farm solos and small man.

I never saw once an 8 man respecting a 1vs1. Nobody cares about their feelings.

If you really wanted 8vs8 clean fights, you would go where you can't get adds. The gvg list gives your the location of other groups, nothing prevents you from going to an area just for you. Full of hypocrisy.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:36 AM by asnusia
archer dmg is fine the problem is they shitting playstyle, but we cant change it
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:55 AM by Peligroso
All the rangers crying is fun.
Currently as it stands there is no way to protect anyone from an insta death with three rangers assisting.
It’s infuriating when trying to siege something and your support classes get insta killed, quickly followed by your dos on the next assist. This makes it impossible to do a thing.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:01 AM by Sepplord
the amount of archers claiming to not understand the difference between assisting from invisibility at 2k+ range is different from casters assisting from 1500range is mindboggling...

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: If you want to reduce the number of rangers, than make the realm timer ONE WEEK instead of 4 hours. You'll reduce the ranger pop by 30-40% at least.
"Interesting" claim, could you elaborate or was that just pulled out of your ass?

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: First, your archery model was already far inferior to casted damage, even at 50 in bow and 48 in PF. I have demonstrated that fact right here on this forum
The only thing you demonstrated was that you know how to argue in bad faith (and i am giving you credit there....the alternative is that you actually don't understand what you were talking about)

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: Second, AoM is vastly inferior to PD due to the fact that magic damage is far superior in this game than melee damage.
Uhh wait, so the defense against something weak is more usefull than defense against something strong? Huh...that doesn't make sense at all...

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: A 10% penalty to melee damage takes FAR longer to make up for in time, by the melee character, than a 10% penalty to casted damage. This is because melee are PUNISHED by increasing their melee speed through a loss in style damage, and they are capped at 1.5 swing speeds. Meanwhile the caster loses NO dps for increasing their cast speed, and is capped at 40% of their spell delve? So the melee characters suffer a damage loss, get capped at 1.5 swing speed, while a caster suffers NO such damage loss and can cast under 1.5 seconds with the right RA's and buffs. This server is already dominated by caster groups, and your AoM/PD changes will just make that worse. We already have self blade turn, casted blade turn, heal procs, ablative procs, AND PD for casters, there is zero need to add more.
That's not how percentages work though, and if you want to get technical, increased TTK benefits melees, since the issue is getting in range before getting killed.
Increased TTK hurts my personal playstyle of smallmanning in encounters against fullgroups where we rely on surprise inc and bursting down someone, but in general it shifts power from casters to melees by allowing people to survive a burstwindow and interuppt the caster. The rest of the issues you list aren't wrong they have nothing to do with AoM/PD
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:13 AM by Peligroso
When you have people from pilzpower main groups (who have very high RR casters) rerolling to play rangers in the bg’s, I think it’s case in point right there
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:46 AM by Tamy
kosen wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:30 PM
Come on guys, again because off player base a class gets a nerf...
I solo 90% of my time on my Ranger, and yes i add on 8man, and yes Its proberly frustrating for them, but thats the game.. i am also getting steamrolled by 8man using stealth pots, and added when i 1v1 etc, but thats the game...
i am 7L5, with aug dex 9, and 40/50 bow, and yes that gives sometimes some Big Numbers, but Its a large investment too!

See ya out there!
/fnk

2766 kills vs 351 solokills? where exactly are u soloing? You can copy&paste what I wrote to Flup for yourself.

You happily added basically all 1v1 or 1vX that I had whenever you where around and I only see you lurking at DC. So don't spread some lies about you getting added during your 1v1...of course you will when you fu** over everyone else as well.

Sometimes I really think half of the playerbase is on some kind of drugs...you can't be that disillusioned.
It's ok to zerg I don't mind it, most of the time I get my rp's anyway. But the amount of "solo" rangers that pop into this thread is just ridiculous.

Ontopic: Good adjustments! The PD/AoM thing has to be tested out I guess.

/Yarna out
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:46 AM by Sunkissed
Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:55 AM
All the rangers crying is fun.
Currently as it stands there is no way to protect anyone from an insta death with three rangers assisting.
It’s infuriating when trying to siege something and your support classes get insta killed, quickly followed by your dos on the next assist. This makes it impossible to do a thing.

It's your dumb playstyle which leads to you being "insta" killed.
Standing in the middle of a courtyard with your sqishy cloth casters and expecting not to be killed is so dumb, i can't find any other words for that.
Come out of your lazyness and adapt your playstyle, there are walls in a tower/keep. Oh, i forgot, adapting playstyle to a different situation needs some kind of stopping being brain afk in the zerg. Expecting to stay in one place all the time, casting a gtaoe from time to time for some rps while a keep is being raided and waiting until the rams have done their thing should not be supposed to be succesful.
That's what most of these forum whiners do in zerg fights.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:29 AM by Drughen
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:01 AM
the amount of archers claiming to not understand the difference between assisting from invisibility at 2k+ range is different from casters assisting from 1500range is mindboggling...

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: If you want to reduce the number of rangers, than make the realm timer ONE WEEK instead of 4 hours. You'll reduce the ranger pop by 30-40% at least.
"Interesting" claim, could you elaborate or was that just pulled out of your ass?

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: First, your archery model was already far inferior to casted damage, even at 50 in bow and 48 in PF. I have demonstrated that fact right here on this forum
The only thing you demonstrated was that you know how to argue in bad faith (and i am giving you credit there....the alternative is that you actually don't understand what you were talking about)

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: Second, AoM is vastly inferior to PD due to the fact that magic damage is far superior in this game than melee damage.
Uhh wait, so the defense against something weak is more usefull than defense against something strong? Huh...that doesn't make sense at all...

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: A 10% penalty to melee damage takes FAR longer to make up for in time, by the melee character, than a 10% penalty to casted damage. This is because melee are PUNISHED by increasing their melee speed through a loss in style damage, and they are capped at 1.5 swing speeds. Meanwhile the caster loses NO dps for increasing their cast speed, and is capped at 40% of their spell delve? So the melee characters suffer a damage loss, get capped at 1.5 swing speed, while a caster suffers NO such damage loss and can cast under 1.5 seconds with the right RA's and buffs. This server is already dominated by caster groups, and your AoM/PD changes will just make that worse. We already have self blade turn, casted blade turn, heal procs, ablative procs, AND PD for casters, there is zero need to add more.
That's not how percentages work though, and if you want to get technical, increased TTK benefits melees, since the issue is getting in range before getting killed.
Increased TTK hurts my personal playstyle of smallmanning in encounters against fullgroups where we rely on surprise inc and bursting down someone, but in general it shifts power from casters to melees by allowing people to survive a burstwindow and interuppt the caster. The rest of the issues you list aren't wrong they have nothing to do with AoM/PD




Sepplord wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:01 AM
the amount of archers claiming to not understand the difference between assisting from invisibility at 2k+ range is different from casters assisting from 1500range is mindboggling...

Completly agree they should make a caster and go around and solo add on stuff and check theire rps/h. either that or all shoud get stealth
Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:43 AM by byron
I'll not comment too much about archery changes, as many I received 900 damages form rangers but I also received 700 damage from casters (thanks to the debuff):, I think the problem is not for a specific class but how unbalanced is right now the game between ranged dps (archers and casters) vs melee classes.
I have some doubts about PF and AoM changes :
1) They will help only high ream ranks players, the balance should involve all the players of a class, from 1L0 to 13L0. Changing only the high cost RAs only increase the gap between old players and the new one that has only few RAs points to spend.
2) PF: the melee damage is already quite low compared to casters, nerfing it again sure will not help to increase melee population. The caster group is already quite hard to defeat for a melee group thanks to debuff assist train, interrupts,etc.. If they have also an arsman, with dashing defense and/or Soldier's barricade the situation is even more hard. In caster groups you will not see many Guardians or Myrmidon but usually you'll see them formed by Unicorn Knight, Lord/Lady (or equivalent of other realms) and so on...

But since I'm involved in first person and I understand how hard is enter in a game where many players are here since the beginning with very high realm ranks, helping only these type of players will discourage new players to enter the battle. Please consider balancing the game adjusting classes and not (only) realm abilities.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:46 AM by Noashakra
Tamy wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:46 AM
2766 kills vs 351 solokills? where exactly are u soloing? You can copy&paste what I wrote to Flup for yourself.

You happily added basically all 1v1 or 1vX that I had whenever you where around and I only see you lurking at DC. So don't spread some lies about you getting added during your 1v1...of course you will when you fu** over everyone else as well.

Sometimes I really think half of the playerbase is on some kind of drugs...you can't be that disillusioned.
It's ok to zerg I don't mind it, most of the time I get my rp's anyway. But the amount of "solo" rangers that pop into this thread is just ridiculous.

Ontopic: Good adjustments! The PD/AoM thing has to be tested out I guess.

/Yarna out

You got to love the hypocrisy of the people sometimes...
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:07 AM by Sunkissed
thank you for nothing!

i've just tested on dummies

this "adjustment" will force people even more into grouping and assisting..solo play is dead with this

you've achieved the opposite of what you wanted to - congrats

Can we pls rename critshot into: shot without crit but little more damage than a normal shot with crit + longer drawtime?
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:12 AM by Cadebrennus
It's funny and extremely stupid, to see two different threads with a common answer: Casters getting killed by Archers while they AFK in a courtyard during a siege, Heavy Tanks with nothing to do....

How about players use at least half a brain and use those Heavy Tanks (or any Tank really) to /Guard them from those damn arrows? Large shields have an insane chance to even passively block arrows, without even looking at /Engage.


Apparently it's easier to whine, knowing that messing with code will allow Gruen to scratch his itch.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:48 AM by Runental
Good changes. Make Screenshots of your relics,- you'll loose them very soon.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:00 AM by Sepplord
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:12 AM
It's funny and extremely stupid, to see two different threads with a common answer: Casters getting killed by Archers while they AFK in a courtyard during a siege, Heavy Tanks with nothing to do....

How about players use at least half a brain and use those Heavy Tanks (or any Tank really) to /Guard them from those damn arrows? Large shields have an insane chance to even passively block arrows, without even looking at /Engage.


Apparently it's easier to whine, knowing that messing with code will allow Gruen to scratch his itch.

So your solution is that keepraid groups should have at least 4shieldtanks, stuck to the other groupmates guarding them...Yeah, THAT surely is a sensible solution and completely removes the issue of tanks being boring to play at the same time. Come on...

There is no viable counter to archerzergs on this server, it's no wonder they get nerfed when too many people start exploiting that
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:09 AM by Noashakra
Sunkissed wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:07 AM
thank you for nothing!

i've just tested on dummies

this "adjustment" will force people even more into grouping and assisting..solo play is dead with this

you've achieved the opposite of what you wanted to - congrats

Can we pls rename critshot into: shot without crit but little more damage than a normal shot with crit + longer drawtime?

Who was soloing on archers?
I don't think they deserved a nerf, but this argument LOL!!

There are no solo archers since months. The "solo" I see are hiding near a flag hopping to add fights anyway.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:39 AM by Peligroso
Sunkissed wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:46 AM
Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:55 AM
All the rangers crying is fun.
Currently as it stands there is no way to protect anyone from an insta death with three rangers assisting.
It’s infuriating when trying to siege something and your support classes get insta killed, quickly followed by your dos on the next assist. This makes it impossible to do a thing.

It's your dumb playstyle which leads to you being "insta" killed.
Standing in the middle of a courtyard with your sqishy cloth casters and expecting not to be killed is so dumb, i can't find any other words for that.
Come out of your lazyness and adapt your playstyle, there are walls in a tower/keep. Oh, i forgot, adapting playstyle to a different situation needs some kind of stopping being brain afk in the zerg. Expecting to stay in one place all the time, casting a gtaoe from time to time for some rps while a keep is being raided and waiting until the rams have done their thing should not be supposed to be succesful.
That's what most of these forum whiners do in zerg fights.

Haha haha cry more ranger boi.
1) you don’t know which class I player (a clue for you is that it isn’t a caster)
2) there is a huge difference when it comes to Vis casters with 1500 range compared to a stealthed assist train with 2000 range
3) You think it’s that easy when attacking a keep (especially ones with the lay out of Ailinne for example) to know where a stealthed assist train will one shot you from?.
This could come from any wall space, above the oil, through the many kill holes or from the tower behind you

Knobhead :-)
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:42 AM by Peligroso
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:12 AM
It's funny and extremely stupid, to see two different threads with a common answer: Casters getting killed by Archers while they AFK in a courtyard during a siege, Heavy Tanks with nothing to do....

How about players use at least half a brain and use those Heavy Tanks (or any Tank really) to /Guard them from those damn arrows? Large shields have an insane chance to even passively block arrows, without even looking at /Engage.


Apparently it's easier to whine, knowing that messing with code will allow Gruen to scratch his itch.

Another ranger whining, it’s like music to my ears.
You realise how difficult it is to guard multiple targets, at a keep siege as a tank whilst people are spread out?. Not forgetting as a tank you’re meant to be in the ram.
This is all whilst trying to stop your casters / support dying to an invisible assist train who can position themselves wherever they want before attacking
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:48 AM by Cotea
Tamy wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:46 AM
kosen wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:30 PM
Come on guys, again because off player base a class gets a nerf...
I solo 90% of my time on my Ranger, and yes i add on 8man, and yes Its proberly frustrating for them, but thats the game.. i am also getting steamrolled by 8man using stealth pots, and added when i 1v1 etc, but thats the game...
i am 7L5, with aug dex 9, and 40/50 bow, and yes that gives sometimes some Big Numbers, but Its a large investment too!

See ya out there!
/fnk

2766 kills vs 351 solokills? where exactly are u soloing? You can copy&paste what I wrote to Flup for yourself.

You happily added basically all 1v1 or 1vX that I had whenever you where around and I only see you lurking at DC. So don't spread some lies about you getting added during your 1v1...of course you will when you fu** over everyone else as well.

Sometimes I really think half of the playerbase is on some kind of drugs...you can't be that disillusioned.
It's ok to zerg I don't mind it, most of the time I get my rp's anyway. But the amount of "solo" rangers that pop into this thread is just ridiculous.

Ontopic: Good adjustments! The PD/AoM thing has to be tested out I guess.

/Yarna out

Whether or not that guy solos i dont know, but all it takes is some other hibby to add for him to lose solo credit and considering alot of people add it wouldnt surprise me why his solo kills are this low for the amount of kills he has.

I know i delayed Niromus' LE title with my 34 Theurgist in the PvP Event Last Man Standing by petting all his fights XD
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:18 PM by inoeth
its 12.68% solo kills.... a dedicated solo player would def have a much higher percentage. i know that for fact since i solo 100% and i have 43% on my hunter and i get added alot!
also i know that some of these "solos" are indeed just adding everything that moves. pathetic that they call themselfes solo player rofl
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:21 PM by asnusia
The only solo ranger i saw this month is Cathaya
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:37 PM by Cadebrennus
Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:42 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:12 AM
It's funny and extremely stupid, to see two different threads with a common answer: Casters getting killed by Archers while they AFK in a courtyard during a siege, Heavy Tanks with nothing to do....

How about players use at least half a brain and use those Heavy Tanks (or any Tank really) to /Guard them from those damn arrows? Large shields have an insane chance to even passively block arrows, without even looking at /Engage.


Apparently it's easier to whine, knowing that messing with code will allow Gruen to scratch his itch.

Another ranger whining, it’s like music to my ears.
You realise how difficult it is to guard multiple targets, at a keep siege as a tank whilst people are spread out?. Not forgetting as a tank you’re meant to be in the ram.
This is all whilst trying to stop your casters / support dying to an invisible assist train who can position themselves wherever they want before attacking

I actually main a Merc, and one tank can actually swap /Guard on multiple casters dependent on what the casters need to do. Guard is hot swappable and doesn't need a cool down in between reapplication of the ability.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:42 PM by Peligroso
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:37 PM
Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:42 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:12 AM
It's funny and extremely stupid, to see two different threads with a common answer: Casters getting killed by Archers while they AFK in a courtyard during a siege, Heavy Tanks with nothing to do....

How about players use at least half a brain and use those Heavy Tanks (or any Tank really) to /Guard them from those damn arrows? Large shields have an insane chance to even passively block arrows, without even looking at /Engage.


Apparently it's easier to whine, knowing that messing with code will allow Gruen to scratch his itch.

Another ranger whining, it’s like music to my ears.
You realise how difficult it is to guard multiple targets, at a keep siege as a tank whilst people are spread out?. Not forgetting as a tank you’re meant to be in the ram.
This is all whilst trying to stop your casters / support dying to an invisible assist train who can position themselves wherever they want before attacking

I actually main a Merc, and one tank can actually swap /Guard on multiple casters dependent on what the casters need to do. Guard is hot swappable and doesn't need a cool down in between reapplication of the ability.

You think I don’t know how guard works?. Played an Arms since open beta.
I said it’s hard to keep everyone guarded in a keep siege, when people are spread out all over the place.
A pug group in a bg will most often have people all spread out rather than clustered.
Like I say, on top of that a tank is expected to be in the ram.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 1:26 PM by Sepplord
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:37 PM
Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:42 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:12 AM
It's funny and extremely stupid, to see two different threads with a common answer: Casters getting killed by Archers while they AFK in a courtyard during a siege, Heavy Tanks with nothing to do....

How about players use at least half a brain and use those Heavy Tanks (or any Tank really) to /Guard them from those damn arrows? Large shields have an insane chance to even passively block arrows, without even looking at /Engage.


Apparently it's easier to whine, knowing that messing with code will allow Gruen to scratch his itch.

Another ranger whining, it’s like music to my ears.
You realise how difficult it is to guard multiple targets, at a keep siege as a tank whilst people are spread out?. Not forgetting as a tank you’re meant to be in the ram.
This is all whilst trying to stop your casters / support dying to an invisible assist train who can position themselves wherever they want before attacking

I actually main a Merc, and one tank can actually swap /Guard on multiple casters dependent on what the casters need to do. Guard is hot swappable and doesn't need a cool down in between reapplication of the ability.

Come on Cade, you aren't arguing in good faith here...you know that i know how guard works and you know that the issue is being oneshot from stealth. So why bring up irrelevant arguments like guard being swappable. If getting shot at had a precursor a tank could react to guard could counter, just like pre-healing helps VS being assisted, and why people that notice they are getting targetted call out in discord BEFORE their lifebar plummets. That just doesn't work against archers.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:10 PM by PoisonClovers
nerf away. Allowing the few whiners to dictate what is changed or nerfed is a death sentence.

You don't even offer a free respec or realm respec is my issue. one thing to nerf a class, whole other thing to say fk you and not even offer them a solution to find a new play style.

delete the class from the game if you dont want anyone playing it.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:27 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:18 PM
its 12.68% solo kills.... a dedicated solo player would def have a much higher percentage. i know that for fact since i solo 100% and i have 43% on my hunter and i get added alot!
also i know that some of these "solos" are indeed just adding everything that moves. pathetic that they call themselfes solo player rofl

Well, maybe they have an other understanding from running around solo and give a shit about stats? Who knows?
Like 8 slot groups that do no gvg.

Your attitude is horrible....
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:36 PM by DinoTriz
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
another round of changes aimed solely at archery assist will be tried.

Sorry, but this would be a terrible idea.

You would penalize people for....grouping together??

That's not an exploit. That is encouraged in this game and any other multiplayer game.

If a group of archers group together and coordinate to ambush other players, they should be rewarded for that.

It takes time and skill to set that up.

What's next? Penalize a 4-man group for attacking a 3-man group?

Or penalize a BG from using boats because "it's not fair you're faster"?
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:41 PM by Kwall0311
DinoTriz wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:36 PM
Sorry, but this would be a terrible idea.

You would penalize people for....grouping together??


Honestly i think there are different circumstances here. Sure casters can assist with debuff, but they CANT do it from 2500, CANT do it from jump shooting over walls, CANT do it through the windows, CANT preload 800 damage nukes . Its a completely different aspect.

Archery assisting should be completely different from a melee or caster train, Sorry, thats just a fact. Complain all you want.

Say its been a thing for 20 years too, which ive seen posted a lot recently. But allowing the archers to be usefull again by giving them more damage was abused by the players. And now the nerfs are needed.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:59 PM by Sepplord
DinoTriz wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:36 PM
That's not an exploit
Not as clear cut as you claim.
Afaik exploiting per definition is abusing a weakness in a system for unintended functions.
There is definitely something worth thinking about, considering the reason for perma-stealth in DAoC and the balancing archers/assassins have recieved showing them to be intended more for soloing.
The intention was not to build a fullgroup of archers, assisting each other and oneshotting other players from invisibility while staying out of castrange.
Just because it is possible within normal game mechanics doesn't mean it isn't an exploit. Any exploit is actually like that. Otherwise it'S a hack and not an exploit.
It is very hard to put the finger on the point where archers assisting is just normal gameplay, and when it becomes something worth being called an exploit though...


It takes time and skill to set that up.
Oh come on, cut the bullshit.
Archerassist from stealth is probably the easiest and least-skill-requiring "tactic" that exists in max-lvl RvR/PvP.
The required skills boil down to being able to put stealth and critshot onto your bar and write an assistmacro.

If you really had a learning curve where you thought to yourself after hours of gameplay "i am finally getting a hang of this assisting button with my archer, i can really feel how i am improving my skills" then i really would be at a loss of words...
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:48 PM by DinoTriz
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:59 PM
Not as clear cut as you claim.
Afaik exploiting per definition is abusing a weakness in a system for unintended functions.
There is definitely something worth thinking about, considering the reason for perma-stealth in DAoC and the balancing archers/assassins have recieved showing them to be intended more for soloing.

The act of Grouping is NOT an exploit and just because you think stealther classes were intended to be solo doesn't make it true.

I'm sure the Devs intended melee classes be viable groupmates in Albion, and yet no one invites them. Everyone is fine with that deviation though.

And I love this "all archers do is press two buttons!". The skill involved comes from positioning, communication, timing, and thinking on your feet.

People are mad because they have to adapt to an unusual threat and you're too lazy to figure it out so you whine on the forums.

Archers are just better at adapting than you are. Because they had to.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:53 PM by DinoTriz
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:41 PM
Honestly i think there are different circumstances here. Sure casters can assist with debuff, but they CANT do it from 2500, CANT do it from jump shooting over walls, CANT do it through the windows, CANT preload 800 damage nukes . Its a completely different aspect.

Archery assisting should be completely different from a melee or caster train, Sorry, thats just a fact. Complain all you want.

Say its been a thing for 20 years too, which ive seen posted a lot recently. But allowing the archers to be usefull again by giving them more damage was abused by the players. And now the nerfs are needed.

Just use one of your 800 different overpowered RAs or quick cast Mez the group.

Easy.

Casters literally zero room to complain about anything in this game.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:54 PM by insanesanity
Make it to where you can't assist other archers or something, don't rape the archer classes as a whole. A class that relies heavily on bow damage, nerf bow damage to fix assisting problem, brilliant!. Bow damage was fine, it was the assisting that caused the hell. I don't see how this fixes anything. You'll still be assist trained down. Broad... I mean phoenix needs to stop catering to the casuals, they are creating a downward slope for themselves. It kind of feels like using gasoline to put out a fire lol.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:06 PM by Kwall0311
DinoTriz wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:53 PM
Casters literally zero room to complain about anything in this game.

I agree with you. I plan an archer myself. But you hear people use the excuse of others being able to assist, so why cant archers. And i posted why.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:09 PM by Peligroso
Isn’t it funny how Nidd is now back on his caster and not the ranger. It wasn’t op though, honest 😂😂

I checked the stats earlier at roughly mid day gmt. There was 28 rangers on and every other Hib class had between 10-16 people on each.

Anybody who says an invisible player(d) able to insta kill anyone from outside of cast range (not just a fraction out but 500/1000 range) isn’t op needs to get their head checked.
Also rofl at the rangers who think using discord and standing together whilst stealthed takes skill 😂😂
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:16 PM by zadrie
I do solo on my Ranger...sorry no screenshots to prove it!

I went sniper spec on my ranger, 45 bow. Using an MP 5.5 spd bow with a clamped damage of 16.5 for being over RR5, against a templated lvl 50, I average 450-550 on a crit shot, 250-350 standard shot, and around 120-150 on rapid fire. This is against all different armor types. The only time I see higher damage is against lower level toons, toons that are sitting down or no AF buff up.

By comparison, my templated Warden gets crit shot by Scouts for 700+ on a consistent basis. Last night it was an 850 crit shot against my Warden. My Wardens AF at the time was 647 with 26% thrust, 28% crush and 28% slash resists.

I really fail to see where the logic is in nerfing Rangers this hard. Maybe I just switch to melee spec and have a legit reason to crit shot with a wet noodle?
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:19 PM by DinoTriz
Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:09 PM
Anybody who says an invisible player(d) able to insta kill anyone from outside of cast range (not just a fraction out but 500/1000 range) isn’t op needs to get their head checked.

If this was actually the truth, then Scouts wouldn't have been the laughing stock for years...

Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:09 PM
Also rofl at the rangers who think using discord and standing together whilst stealthed takes skill 😂😂

Ask any raid leader of any MMO how "easy" it is to get a group of people to coordinate on anything.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:35 PM by Azrael
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 8:01 AM
the amount of archers claiming to not understand the difference between assisting from invisibility at 2k+ range is different from casters assisting from 1500range is mindboggling...


^this aaand

Peligroso wrote: Anybody who says an invisible player(d) able to insta kill anyone from outside of cast range (not just a fraction out but 500/1000 range) isn’t op needs to get their head checked.

^this aaand

especially
Peligroso wrote: Also rofl at the rangers who think using discord and standing together whilst stealthed takes skill 😂😂

^this
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:36 PM by DinoTriz
Excellent post.

You added a lot to the conversation.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:40 PM by Azrael
DinoTriz wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 3:53 PM
Just use one of your 800 different overpowered RAs or quick cast Mez the group.

Easy.

Casters literally zero room to complain about anything in this game.

uff.
But please, teach us and give us video with your pov where you qc a grp of archers if you already dead. would appreciate it.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:41 PM by Stoertebecker
zadrie wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:16 PM
I went sniper spec on my ranger, 45 bow. Using an MP 5.5 spd bow with a clamped damage of 16.5 for being over RR5, against a templated lvl 50, I average 450-550 on a crit shot, 250-350 standard shot, and around 120-150 on rapid fire. This is against all different armor types. The only time I see higher damage is against lower level toons, toons that are sitting down or no AF buff up.

Then you`re doing something wrong. That are values that i reach with my hunter easily, and i don`t have a 5.4 speed bow and damage-add.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:41 PM by Azrael
DinoTriz wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:36 PM
Excellent post.

You added a lot to the conversation.

like you
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:17 PM by zadrie
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:41 PM
zadrie wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:16 PM
I went sniper spec on my ranger, 45 bow. Using an MP 5.5 spd bow with a clamped damage of 16.5 for being over RR5, against a templated lvl 50, I average 450-550 on a crit shot, 250-350 standard shot, and around 120-150 on rapid fire. This is against all different armor types. The only time I see higher damage is against lower level toons, toons that are sitting down or no AF buff up.

Then you`re doing something wrong. That are values that i reach with my hunter easily, and i don`t have a 5.4 speed bow and damage-add.

I wish I was doing something wrong, but not much to crit shot. Mash button, hit fire and let it rip.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:36 PM by ExcretusMaximus
zadrie wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:17 PM
I wish I was doing something wrong, but not much to crit shot. Mash button, hit fire and let it rip.

If you're mashing the button, you're turning off crit shot and firing a normal one.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:50 PM by inchaii
Great changes. Glad AoM got some love as well
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:50 PM by Peligroso
[quote=DinoTriz post_id=148495 time.

Peligroso wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:09 PM
Also rofl at the rangers who think using discord and standing together whilst stealthed takes skill 😂😂

Ask any raid leader of any MMO how "easy" it is to get a group of people to coordinate on anything.
[/quote]
There is a huge difference in coordination of a BG than eight people. It’s no different to an 8 v 8 group coordination .
Stop trying to make something simple sound difficult
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:53 PM by zadrie
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:36 PM
zadrie wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:17 PM
I wish I was doing something wrong, but not much to crit shot. Mash button, hit fire and let it rip.

If you're mashing the button, you're turning off crit shot and firing a normal one.

For the literal folks missing a sense of humor...
Mash button = press crit shot button once, press fire button once to auto fire the shot.

See opponents health barely move, look at logs to see if crit got changed to standard, cry myself to sleep at a ~500 crit shot.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:04 PM by Stoertebecker
zadrie wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 5:17 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:41 PM
zadrie wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 4:16 PM
I went sniper spec on my ranger, 45 bow. Using an MP 5.5 spd bow with a clamped damage of 16.5 for being over RR5, against a templated lvl 50, I average 450-550 on a crit shot, 250-350 standard shot, and around 120-150 on rapid fire. This is against all different armor types. The only time I see higher damage is against lower level toons, toons that are sitting down or no AF buff up.

Then you`re doing something wrong. That are values that i reach with my hunter easily, and i don`t have a 5.4 speed bow and damage-add.

I wish I was doing something wrong, but not much to crit shot. Mash button, hit fire and let it rip.

Pre-nerf. If your Standard Shot is between 250 and 350 you critshot would be like 500-700 and your rf between 125 and 175. So something is wrong with the numbers.
Dam-Add on top of that.

Maximal Damage on my hunter with 45 bow speced was 950 (casters, lvl 50 and below with no shields up), that never changed, also it was cap.
You as a sniper speced ranger with 45 bow should deal more than that.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:04 PM by Parole
Dear Gms,

I think it is great that you are attentive to server issues and want to make changes to keep the general population happy. I think it is very interesting that these recent changes have gone in to the population with little to no testing or feedback from the community on the proposed fix. Obviously as a Scout in Albion I am biased in my opinion about how my class should perform in RvR. I am happy to provide feedback and offer suggestions for future changes to archery classes of which I am very familiar with. Right now, I think you need help.

My belief is that by making archery classes (from all realms) less effective YOU have only incentivized them to group, and have thereby exacerbated the current problem. If archers felt they could compete solo/small man AND were given incentive to solo and small man, I believe they would. As an old man who still plays this game, I have learned one thing, you can motivate better with the carrot than the stick. Please stop beating the shit out of us stealthers with your stick.

Respectfully Yours,

Parole.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:35 PM by gruenesschaf
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:04 PM
Dear Gms,

I think it is great that you are attentive to server issues and want to make changes to keep the general population happy. I think it is very interesting that these recent changes have gone in to the population with little to no testing or feedback from the community on the proposed fix. Obviously as a Scout in Albion I am biased in my opinion about how my class should perform in RvR. I am happy to provide feedback and offer suggestions for future changes to archery classes of which I am very familiar with. Right now, I think you need help.

My belief is that by making archery classes (from all realms) less effective YOU have only incentivized them to group, and have thereby exacerbated the current problem. If archers felt they could compete solo/small man AND were given incentive to solo and small man, I believe they would. As an old man who still plays this game, I have learned one thing, you can motivate better with the carrot than the stick. Please stop beating the shit out of us stealthers with your stick.

Respectfully Yours,

Parole.

You got the carrot with the archer buff, then you ganged up on the carrot transport and took all the carrots, there are no more carrots.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:40 PM by Kwall0311
gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:35 PM
You got the carrot with the archer buff, then you ganged up on the carrot transport and took all the carrots, there are no more carrots.

Sounds like the assist groups are the problem. As you stated in your OP.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:47 PM by soremir
Great change!

Just sit in Polemo's discord with the other Albs (& Hibs of course!), wait for Polemo to say we're going to nGed, and hit /u and /serverinfo a few times and watch the Hib ranger population climb.

Two other solutions:
1) Have a reasonable realm timer.
2) Have it that if you log into NF, you always log into the relic town, so everyone cannot just have an alt ranger perma-logged at DC and nGed, or whatever keep is the flavor of the week.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:33 PM by goten9033
I could be way off base I’m not sure. There are plenty of people playing and in charge of this game far smarter then me. However maybe a better approach to not affect archers solo ability would have been to limit how many archers can assist on the same target? ( not sure if that’s possible) and just a suggestion.

Thanks
Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:45 PM by Parole
goten9033 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 7:33 PM
I could be way off base I’m not sure. There are plenty of people playing and in charge of this game far smarter then me. However maybe a better approach to not affect archers solo ability would have been to limit how many archers can assist on the same target? ( not sure if that’s possible) and just a suggestion.

Thanks

Archer zerg will be the only viable way to play sniper spec now, regardless of realm. It's funny because I actually started playing my scout much less after the archery buff and the huge influx of archers from hib and alb.

Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:18 PM by nkeplinger1
This server and its population is laughable. People just QQ until easy options are just handed to them. You can Group and play how you want with any class in the game, except a stealth class. Nobody wants to talk about the 8 mans that run from other 8 mans but have no problem zerging small mans and solos. You've got 8 mans that disengage fights because of adds in RVR IN THE MIDDLE OF A TASK ZONE. Nobody wants to talk about that. God forbid you get shot by a couple archers. You want to fix Archery? Make archers soloable and then give people some form of incentive to solo. The reason people don't solo on archers is because the classes in which they can kill effectively and get to safety in time, dont run solo. A shield tank on this game has the ability to block your critical shot when it is fired from stealth. Classes that can't even train in shield can block your critical shot WHEN ITS FIRED FROM STEALTH. I hate to break it to you, but reducing a classes damage output only makes said class more group dependent. The stealth/archer groups will only climb in numbers due to this change.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM by inchaii
gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:35 PM
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:04 PM
Dear Gms,

I think it is great that you are attentive to server issues and want to make changes to keep the general population happy. I think it is very interesting that these recent changes have gone in to the population with little to no testing or feedback from the community on the proposed fix. Obviously as a Scout in Albion I am biased in my opinion about how my class should perform in RvR. I am happy to provide feedback and offer suggestions for future changes to archery classes of which I am very familiar with. Right now, I think you need help.

My belief is that by making archery classes (from all realms) less effective YOU have only incentivized them to group, and have thereby exacerbated the current problem. If archers felt they could compete solo/small man AND were given incentive to solo and small man, I believe they would. As an old man who still plays this game, I have learned one thing, you can motivate better with the carrot than the stick. Please stop beating the shit out of us stealthers with your stick.

Respectfully Yours,

Parole.

You got the carrot with the archer buff, then you ganged up on the carrot transport and took all the carrots, there are no more carrots.

Thanks Gruen, that gave me a good laugh. This thought process coming from Parole, the epitome of a stealth zerger, talking about how these changes only incentives them to group more was hilarious, so it was tough to take anything he actually said with any grain of salt. You can't train an old dog new tricks as the saying goes. These changes, nor future changes will change him or his cronies from ever stepping foot out of their keep solo.

Archers by design are not going to be running around solo 90% of the time and so reducing the dmg output only makes sense. Thanks Gruen, keep up the great work!
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM by Valaraukar
nkeplinger1 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:18 PM
This server and its population is laughable. People just QQ until easy options are just handed to them. You can Group and play how you want with any class in the game, except a stealth class. Nobody wants to talk about the 8 mans that run from other 8 mans but have no problem zerging small mans and solos. You've got 8 mans that disengage fights because of adds in RVR IN THE MIDDLE OF A TASK ZONE. Nobody wants to talk about that. God forbid you get shot by a couple archers. You want to fix Archery? Make archers soloable and then give people some form of incentive to solo. The reason people don't solo on archers is because the classes in which they can kill effectively and get to safety in time, dont run solo. A shield tank on this game has the ability to block your critical shot when it is fired from stealth. Classes that can't even train in shield can block your critical shot WHEN ITS FIRED FROM STEALTH. I hate to break it to you, but reducing a classes damage output only makes said class more group dependent. The stealth/archer groups will only climb in numbers due to this change.

Totally agree...I've seen also people evading a crit shot fired from stealth...lol
Ganking archers is an issue but I fear that this change will have the opposite effect. They will group even more than before. Nerf hugely stealth when grouped and something may change for good, but if you nerf the "single" damage the obvious result will be that instead of 4 rangers there will be 8 to crit assist the visible solo or adding in fights.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:02 PM by MagicaeFungos
if ranged classes are assisting only 1 crit will land all the others after that will be reg shots...
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:21 PM by Parole
inchaii wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:35 PM
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:04 PM
Dear Gms,

I think it is great that you are attentive to server issues and want to make changes to keep the general population happy. I think it is very interesting that these recent changes have gone in to the population with little to no testing or feedback from the community on the proposed fix. Obviously as a Scout in Albion I am biased in my opinion about how my class should perform in RvR. I am happy to provide feedback and offer suggestions for future changes to archery classes of which I am very familiar with. Right now, I think you need help.

My belief is that by making archery classes (from all realms) less effective YOU have only incentivized them to group, and have thereby exacerbated the current problem. If archers felt they could compete solo/small man AND were given incentive to solo and small man, I believe they would. As an old man who still plays this game, I have learned one thing, you can motivate better with the carrot than the stick. Please stop beating the shit out of us stealthers with your stick.

Respectfully Yours,

Parole.

You got the carrot with the archer buff, then you ganged up on the carrot transport and took all the carrots, there are no more carrots.

Thanks Gruen, that gave me a good laugh. This thought process coming from Parole, the epitome of a stealth zerger, talking about how these changes only incentives them to group more was hilarious, so it was tough to take anything he actually said with any grain of salt. You can't train an old dog new tricks as the saying goes. These changes, nor future changes will change him or his cronies from ever stepping foot out of their keep solo.

Archers by design are not going to be running around solo 90% of the time and so reducing the dmg output only makes sense. Thanks Gruen, keep up the great work!

Get wrecked you cheerleading vanish baby. I haven't even heard your name before least of all seen your kill spam. Way to go Capt Invisible.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:22 PM by Parole
MagicaeFungos wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:02 PM
if ranged classes are assisting only 1 crit will land all the others after that will be reg shots...

Exactly, People just come to spew garbage on forums and don't even know what they're talking about.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:26 PM by inchaii
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:21 PM
inchaii wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:35 PM
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 6:04 PM
Dear Gms,

I think it is great that you are attentive to server issues and want to make changes to keep the general population happy. I think it is very interesting that these recent changes have gone in to the population with little to no testing or feedback from the community on the proposed fix. Obviously as a Scout in Albion I am biased in my opinion about how my class should perform in RvR. I am happy to provide feedback and offer suggestions for future changes to archery classes of which I am very familiar with. Right now, I think you need help.

My belief is that by making archery classes (from all realms) less effective YOU have only incentivized them to group, and have thereby exacerbated the current problem. If archers felt they could compete solo/small man AND were given incentive to solo and small man, I believe they would. As an old man who still plays this game, I have learned one thing, you can motivate better with the carrot than the stick. Please stop beating the shit out of us stealthers with your stick.

Respectfully Yours,

Parole.

You got the carrot with the archer buff, then you ganged up on the carrot transport and took all the carrots, there are no more carrots.

Thanks Gruen, that gave me a good laugh. This thought process coming from Parole, the epitome of a stealth zerger, talking about how these changes only incentives them to group more was hilarious, so it was tough to take anything he actually said with any grain of salt. You can't train an old dog new tricks as the saying goes. These changes, nor future changes will change him or his cronies from ever stepping foot out of their keep solo.

Archers by design are not going to be running around solo 90% of the time and so reducing the dmg output only makes sense. Thanks Gruen, keep up the great work!

Get wrecked you cheerleading vanish baby. I haven't even heard your name before least of all seen your kill spam. Way to go Capt Invisible.

That was the typical response I expected from an "old" fella like you. Sounds like you're pretty salty I'm not donating RPs to your nightly stealth gang. You're that guy that thinks getting the last hit on every soloer you zerg down is an achievement since everyone gets to see your "spam". Funny guy
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM by Kwall0311
Ah, here comes the fights of people who bring no valuable information to changes and dont know how to crop quotes , instead repost paragraphs of shit that everyone now has to scroll through and add 20 more unnecessary pages.

But it is true. Its screwing over the solo, and almost changes nothing to the groups assisting. As weve seen today.

Cap dex to 350, remove relic bonus from archery, and the last thing to do would be mess with assisting.

Consider giving something like a modified Remedy to archers. It shouldnt receive negative feedback like it did in the purposed RR5 idea, because assassin types wouldnt have it.
This opens up more of a viable melee spec option across the board to archers, taking numbers from the 50 bow spec goons.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:34 PM by Parole
inchaii wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:26 PM
That was the typical response I expected from an "old" fella like you. Sounds like you're pretty salty I'm not donating RPs to your nightly stealth gang. You're that guy that thinks getting the last hit on every soloer you zerg down is an achievement since everyone gets to see your "spam". Funny guy

Sorry, already forgot your name...

Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:40 PM by inchaii
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:34 PM
inchaii wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:26 PM
That was the typical response I expected from an "old" fella like you. Sounds like you're pretty salty I'm not donating RPs to your nightly stealth gang. You're that guy that thinks getting the last hit on every soloer you zerg down is an achievement since everyone gets to see your "spam". Funny guy

Sorry, already forgot your name...



Ouch! Mr sensitive! <3
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:41 PM by Parole
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM
Ah, here comes the fights of people who bring no valuable information to changes and dont know how to crop quotes , instead repost paragraphs of shit that everyone now has to scroll through and add 20 more unnecessary pages.

But it is true. Its screwing over the solo, and almost changes nothing to the groups assisting. As weve seen today.

Cap dex to 350, remove relic bonus from archery, and the last thing to do would be mess with assisting.

Maybe implement a new thing like "Hunters Mark". After an archer puts in on a target only he and one other archer realm mate can shoot the same enemy (until the mark is removed). Let's find a cooler and more innovative way to solve the problem.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:45 PM by Forlornhope
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:41 PM
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM
Ah, here comes the fights of people who bring no valuable information to changes and dont know how to crop quotes , instead repost paragraphs of shit that everyone now has to scroll through and add 20 more unnecessary pages.

But it is true. Its screwing over the solo, and almost changes nothing to the groups assisting. As weve seen today.

Cap dex to 350, remove relic bonus from archery, and the last thing to do would be mess with assisting.

Maybe implement a new thing like "Hunters Mark". After an archer puts in on a target only he and one other archer realm mate can shoot the same enemy (until the mark is removed). Let's find a cooler and more innovative ways to solve the problem.

You'd have to make applying it automatic when the archer shoots their target. If you have an option to not put it on there people just wouldn't use it and still assist with more than two realm-mates.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:46 PM by MagicaeFungos
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM
Ah, here comes the fights of people who bring no valuable information to changes and dont know how to crop quotes , instead repost paragraphs of shit that everyone now has to scroll through and add 20 more unnecessary pages.

But it is true. Its screwing over the solo, and almost changes nothing to the groups assisting. As weve seen today.

Cap dex to 350, remove relic bonus from archery, and the last thing to do would be mess with assisting.

So what you emplying here is completely nerf ranged classes to the ground since a damage nerf is not enough for you and your perfect little world cant counter them properly?

assist on them as much as they assist on you with aoe triple dots, aoe nukes, millions of gtaoes.. siege weapons.. necro shade placing easy gts for you etcetcetc...

think outside the box more and less sticking bg leaders like zombies will go long ways for you and everyone for certain.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:47 PM by Kwall0311
A dex cap sounds absolutely reasonable to me. I think a ranger can hit 350 dex and cap qui with 48PF, maybe even lower.

A scout would have to spend over 40 RA points to get those numbers, and it would still fall short of 350.

Stops some of the huge damage coming from rangers specific , in situations where other archers arent buffed by support.

Just trying to find ways that makes everyone happy without hurting specific playstyles
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:49 PM by Kwall0311
MagicaeFungos wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:46 PM
So what you emplying here is completely nerf ranged classes to the ground since a damage nerf is not enough for you and your perfect little world cant counter them properly?

assist on them as much as they assist on you with aoe triple dots, gtaoe.. siege weapons.. necro shade placing easy gts for you etcetcetc...

think more stick bg leaders like zombies less... it will go long ways for you.

Youre missing the point here, Its mostly addressed at the OP with regards to to many archers. Its because of the damage they can do. Dont use this as your forum to compare counters, and irrelevant topics such as necro GT or siege.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:53 PM by paqdizzle
nkeplinger1 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:18 PM
This server and its population is laughable. People just QQ until easy options are just handed to them. You can Group and play how you want with any class in the game, except a stealth class. Nobody wants to talk about the 8 mans that run from other 8 mans but have no problem zerging small mans and solos. You've got 8 mans that disengage fights because of adds in RVR IN THE MIDDLE OF A TASK ZONE. Nobody wants to talk about that. God forbid you get shot by a couple archers. You want to fix Archery? Make archers soloable and then give people some form of incentive to solo. The reason people don't solo on archers is because the classes in which they can kill effectively and get to safety in time, dont run solo. A shield tank on this game has the ability to block your critical shot when it is fired from stealth. Classes that can't even train in shield can block your critical shot WHEN ITS FIRED FROM STEALTH. I hate to break it to you, but reducing a classes damage output only makes said class more group dependent. The stealth/archer groups will only climb in numbers due to this change.

Damn bro you went hard on the paint! well said.
The fact that you even mentioned "A shield tank on this game has the ability to block your critical shot when it is fired from stealth. Classes that can't even train in shield can block your critical shot WHEN ITS FIRED FROM STEALTH" was PERFECT.... nobody else sees this as a problem? I mean a preemptive attack should be uhhhh... you know...

Archery classes already get blocked and evaded with the lowest of chances... the fact that you still get the preemptive attack and still get blocked or evaded is insane: when adding up all these nerfs, it's a joke..

I don't think the devs play their own server at this point... and if they do, it's on a GOD character that's coded differently than a brand new char.
if they made a scout, ranger or even a hunter, they would know exactly why these changes are getting dooky feedback. If the devs ever tried to solo PvP, they would know exactly what the real problems are. Hell, I remember back in the day, if a person got several /appeals the devs would take that into consideration and FOLLOW that person that was /appealed to see for themselves that he/she was exploiting or cheating. Pictures don't even work here, gotta be a video and the first 8 digits of their social security number along with what they ate last night to even be considered worthy of a /appeal being taken serious.

Could you all imagine just for a second what would happen if nukes were nerffed? by far the highest DPS in the game.. Just imagine if it were reduced or nerffed, or there were no longer debuff for said nukes.. you think anyone would play those classes? you think people would still try and theory build on a broken class? ffs these players don't even theory build NOW, it's all cookie cutter meta garbage, and as soon as something comes along and somehow kills that meta, it's ZOMG QQ TIME TO NERF... literally EVERY TIME.

And for those of you saying the nerf is: "Oh it's not even noticeable" then just think for a second on that... if it's not even noticeable then why on earth are the devs taking time to even address this? why not have priority on what needs addressed... there are far bigger issues about this server than making changes to classes that are "Not even noticeable" after said nerfs... it's outrageous.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:53 PM by MagicaeFungos
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:49 PM
MagicaeFungos wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:46 PM
So what you emplying here is completely nerf ranged classes to the ground since a damage nerf is not enough for you and your perfect little world cant counter them properly?

assist on them as much as they assist on you with aoe triple dots, gtaoe.. siege weapons.. necro shade placing easy gts for you etcetcetc...

think more stick bg leaders like zombies less... it will go long ways for you.

Youre missing the point here, Its mostly addressed at the OP with regards to to many archers. Its because of the damage they can do. Dont use this as your forum to compare counters, and irrelevant topics such as necro GT or siege.

Its not irrelevant if those are intended as counters.. i been reading your msgs here and your mission to nerf people even more and i dont agree with that.. Same thing can be said about the amount of earth wizzies which makes almost impossible to do anything inside keeps and cks once they have their gtaoes spamming every inch non stop..
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:55 PM by paqdizzle
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:49 PM
MagicaeFungos wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:46 PM
So what you emplying here is completely nerf ranged classes to the ground since a damage nerf is not enough for you and your perfect little world cant counter them properly?

assist on them as much as they assist on you with aoe triple dots, gtaoe.. siege weapons.. necro shade placing easy gts for you etcetcetc...

think more stick bg leaders like zombies less... it will go long ways for you.

Youre missing the point here, Its mostly addressed at the OP with regards to to many archers. Its because of the damage they can do. Dont use this as your forum to compare counters, and irrelevant topics such as necro GT or siege.


What's OP?

Nobody says anything about getting 3 tapped by nukes that are fired about 1-3 seconds faster than any critshot/standard shot, but for way more damage than any standard shot... even if you aug dex to max, use a 5.5 speed bow, you'll never see 500 damage or more on your standard shots... ever. and we're not even talking about debuffs...
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:59 PM by Kwall0311
paqdizzle wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:55 PM
What's OP?

OP = Original Poster
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:59 PM by Parole
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:41 PM
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM
Maybe implement a new thing like "Hunters Mark". After an archer puts in on a target only he and one other archer realm mate can shoot the same enemy (until the mark is removed). Let's find a cooler and more innovative ways to solve the problem.

You'd have to make applying it automatic when the archer shoots their target. If you have an option to not put it on there people just wouldn't use it and still assist with more than two realm-mates.

Yeah. Think about how guard works. If I am guarding a group member another char is unable to guard them. Maybe create an archer assist mechanism that keeps a fixed number of archers able to shoot another archers target. More creative than just nerfing a classes baseline dmg imo.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 12:01 AM by paqdizzle
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:59 PM
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:41 PM
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM
Maybe implement a new thing like "Hunters Mark". After an archer puts in on a target only he and one other archer realm mate can shoot the same enemy (until the mark is removed). Let's find a cooler and more innovative ways to solve the problem.

You'd have to make applying it automatic when the archer shoots their target. If you have an option to not put it on there people just wouldn't use it and still assist with more than two realm-mates.

Yeah. Think about how guard works. If I am guarding a group member another char is unable to guard them. Maybe create an archer assist mechanism that keeps a fixed number of archers able to shoot another archers target. More creative than just nerfing a classes baseline dmg imo.

yeah but if we're going to put limits on people attacking the same target, what about the 8v1s? what about the 8mans zerging down all the solo and small mans then run away from another 8 man... People just want EZ mode on Phoenix, period.. and when they die, we get stupid nerfs like this.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 12:05 AM by Cadebrennus
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:59 PM
Parole wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:41 PM
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:31 PM
Maybe implement a new thing like "Hunters Mark". After an archer puts in on a target only he and one other archer realm mate can shoot the same enemy (until the mark is removed). Let's find a cooler and more innovative ways to solve the problem.

You'd have to make applying it automatic when the archer shoots their target. If you have an option to not put it on there people just wouldn't use it and still assist with more than two realm-mates.

Yeah. Think about how guard works. If I am guarding a group member another char is unable to guard them. Maybe create an archer assist mechanism that keeps a fixed number of archers able to shoot another archers target. More creative than just nerfing a classes baseline dmg imo.

Or, you know, people can just use Guard and Guard their realm mates with their shield. Last I checked it was crazy effective, but hey, people would rather call for nerfs than to use the tools they already have.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:51 AM by nkeplinger1
May a new era of stealth zerging commence! Classic to custom!! What a joke these changes are.

Maybe if people just simply remembered that they could /yell when losing in their set 8v1's against whomever they'd all disengage and everyone would be merry. The fact that people think that archer classes are an overwhelming issue on this server (which make up on average less that 15% of the game population) is total low IQ pandering.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:59 AM by boridi
thirian24 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 6:56 PM
Tamy wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 5:30 PM
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

Little hint: Not beeing grouped but add every fight you see because you're too bad to kill something solo is not the definition of a solo ranger.
But I know reality can get a little bit washy when you camp at DC 24/7.

For me as a (real) solo player I prefer stealthzergs over "solo" rangers on every corner ready to add. Much more predictable.

Therefore I like this nerf thrown into the face of all these add rangers. :-)

Regarding AoM/PD: I would have rather seen a passive resist increase for full tanks like on live servers to give them a little buff and more purpose in group/sieges.

Im glad someone said it, lmao.
LOL. This is from DDB drop off.

I'm meleeing an eldritch, already shot by another ranger, and somehow a crit shot gets through.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:02 AM by janclode
a quoi bon essayer de donner des arguments expliquer , si les modérateurs n'ont jamais joué , scout ranger ..... je le joue depuis 2001 et il a beaucoup été réduit , impossible
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:07 AM by Sepplord
nkeplinger1 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:18 PM
This server and its population is laughable. People just QQ until easy options are just handed to them. You can Group and play how you want with any class in the game, except a stealth class. Nobody wants to talk about the 8 mans that run from other 8 mans but have no problem zerging small mans and solos. You've got 8 mans that disengage fights because of adds in RVR IN THE MIDDLE OF A TASK ZONE. Nobody wants to talk about that. God forbid you get shot by a couple archers. You want to fix Archery? Make archers soloable and then give people some form of incentive to solo. The reason people don't solo on archers is because the classes in which they can kill effectively and get to safety in time, dont run solo. A shield tank on this game has the ability to block your critical shot when it is fired from stealth. Classes that can't even train in shield can block your critical shot WHEN ITS FIRED FROM STEALTH. I hate to break it to you, but reducing a classes damage output only makes said class more group dependent. The stealth/archer groups will only climb in numbers due to this change.

What are you on about?
Those issues get discussed all the time in the forum, far from "no one wants to talk about that".
Any more enlightments you wanne gaslight with?

So your solution to archers is to make them strong enough to shoot shieldtanks, and then you will all magically stop grouping? Lol
Bullshit.
I sympathize with actual solo-archers, the handful that exists. They really didn't deserve getting the nerfbat because of all the "highly skilled and coordinating archers" that became an issue. But these ridiculous claims from grouping archers that it is their only option.
All the recently levelled rangers want to solo, and surprisingly then realised that there aren't tons of easyprey solo targets, and then only grudgingly joined a group to kill stuff? Come on, guys, you are lying to yourselves if you believe that shit

Archers group because they can kill with impunity, play half afk while watching a movie and just need to hit assist-shoot from time to time when a victim is called in discord. It is a very bland easy playstyle that requires only basic amounts of coordination with very small potential to fuck up and fuck over your group.

Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM
Totally agree...I've seen also people evading a crit shot fired from stealth...lol
Ganking archers is an issue but I fear that this change will have the opposite effect. They will group even more than before. Nerf hugely stealth when grouped and something may change for good, but if you nerf the "single" damage the obvious result will be that instead of 4 rangers there will be 8 to crit assist the visible solo or adding in fights.
I keep seeing this argument, and it really shows the critical thinking skills of the people playing in these stealthgroups. Have you thought that through Valaraukar? Did you even think a second about what you are saying there?
Your claim is that there will be more archergroups after the change, AND that they will be twice as big....huh....so a huge nerf comes and you are telling me that will double the archer population? Because if it doubles the groupsize without doubling the population, then there must be half as many groups. Gradeshool math

paqdizzle wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 12:01 AM
People just want EZ mode on Phoenix, period.. and when they die, we get stupid nerfs like this.
Quite ironic...considering archer assist from invisibility is as easy as it gets
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:58 AM by Peligroso
All the ranger fan bois in here crying is classic.
Getting their buddies to all ‘like’ their posts - keep it coming 😂
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:57 AM by inoeth
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:18 PM
its 12.68% solo kills.... a dedicated solo player would def have a much higher percentage. i know that for fact since i solo 100% and i have 43% on my hunter and i get added alot!
also i know that some of these "solos" are indeed just adding everything that moves. pathetic that they call themselfes solo player rofl

Well, maybe they have an other understanding from running around solo and give a shit about stats? Who knows?
Like 8 slot groups that do no gvg.

Your attitude is horrible....

pretending to be a solo player but add everything is a horrible attitude dude
solo play i when you recieve a "solo kill" and dont share rp with another player... get it?
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:59 AM by inoeth
nkeplinger1 wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:51 AM
May a new era of stealth zerging commence! Classic to custom!! What a joke these changes are.

Maybe if people just simply remembered that they could /yell when losing in their set 8v1's against whomever they'd all disengage and everyone would be merry. The fact that people think that archer classes are an overwhelming issue on this server (which make up on average less that 15% of the game population) is total low IQ pandering.

oh yeah plz lets go back to classic, where bows did not that high amount of dmg..... you maybe did not realize that the high numbers are actually a custom change because of the "i do zero dmg" whiners..
damn boys check your facts
Tue 3 Nov 2020 8:33 AM by Pingyongyang
This is awesome! Finally, Some Good News!

I agree with the previous idea limited stealther numbers in general by % of population queue. Maybe 5%?

Just the fact there is so much attention and talk of rangers and stealthers is the proof they have too much of an impact on the game. They should be background noise at best not a main conversation point. Stealthers in general should be talked about at the same level a class like Savage or Warden is talked about, in fact less so.

I think stealthers should be given much better grouping abilities and their invisibility for 3 minutes long on a 10 minute timer. Maybe assassins or high RA let you invis longer up to 5 min on 10 min cooldown timer.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 9:15 AM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:57 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:18 PM
its 12.68% solo kills.... a dedicated solo player would def have a much higher percentage. i know that for fact since i solo 100% and i have 43% on my hunter and i get added alot!
also i know that some of these "solos" are indeed just adding everything that moves. pathetic that they call themselfes solo player rofl

Well, maybe they have an other understanding from running around solo and give a shit about stats? Who knows?
Like 8 slot groups that do no gvg.

Your attitude is horrible....

pretending to be a solo player but add everything is a horrible attitude dude
solo play i when you recieve a "solo kill" and dont share rp with another player... get it?

Once again via definition : not grouped = solo
Adding on everything = one way of many to play this game


Taking a game that serious that i know exactly my % on solo kills, stalking other players on the herald to check their ratio has something to do with a masculine profil neurosis and/or obsession.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 9:21 AM by inoeth
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 9:15 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:57 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:18 PM
its 12.68% solo kills.... a dedicated solo player would def have a much higher percentage. i know that for fact since i solo 100% and i have 43% on my hunter and i get added alot!
also i know that some of these "solos" are indeed just adding everything that moves. pathetic that they call themselfes solo player rofl

Well, maybe they have an other understanding from running around solo and give a shit about stats? Who knows?
Like 8 slot groups that do no gvg.

Your attitude is horrible....

pretending to be a solo player but add everything is a horrible attitude dude
solo play i when you recieve a "solo kill" and dont share rp with another player... get it?

Once again via definition : not grouped = solo
Adding on everything = one way of many to play this game


Taking a game that serious that i know exactly my % on solo kills, stalking other players on the herald to check their ratio has something to do with a masculine profil neurosis and/or obsession.

nice try of an ad hominem here, in fact it is only pointing out that you are wrong even though you keep ignoring what i say.
you are right not in grp=solo but soloing with the need of adding and/or running into guards or fireing from an invunerable position is in fact nothing that has to do with soloing since you actually are not solo, you get help from npcs, keeps and other players. and again your playstyle does not grant you "solo kills" for a reason so sftu pretending you are a solo guy. you are not. period.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 10:35 AM by Forlornhope
paqdizzle wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:55 PM
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:49 PM
MagicaeFungos wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:46 PM
So what you emplying here is completely nerf ranged classes to the ground since a damage nerf is not enough for you and your perfect little world cant counter them properly?

assist on them as much as they assist on you with aoe triple dots, gtaoe.. siege weapons.. necro shade placing easy gts for you etcetcetc...

think more stick bg leaders like zombies less... it will go long ways for you.

Youre missing the point here, Its mostly addressed at the OP with regards to to many archers. Its because of the damage they can do. Dont use this as your forum to compare counters, and irrelevant topics such as necro GT or siege.


What's OP?

Nobody says anything about getting 3 tapped by nukes that are fired about 1-3 seconds faster than any critshot/standard shot, but for way more damage than any standard shot... even if you aug dex to max, use a 5.5 speed bow, you'll never see 500 damage or more on your standard shots... ever. and we're not even talking about debuffs...

People have mentioned getting three shot from nukes quite a lot... And have even suggested nerfing the debuff value. Don't act like nobody talks about it or has mentioned it because people have on numerous occasions. What people like you fail to realize (or just blatantly ignore) is you can actually see the three caster trains who are about to nuke you. There's literally nothing you can do about instant dying from four stealthed targets, unless literally every single person in the group has a shield tank stuck to them at all times.. Which I probably don't have to say is not feasible or going to happen.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 11:45 AM by easytoremember
inoeth wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:59 AM
oh yeah plz lets go back to classic, where bows did not that high amount of dmg..... you maybe did not realize that the high numbers are actually a custom change because of the "i do zero dmg" whiners..
damn boys check your facts
Shots from a scout was higher back then and more often than not there was no spec AF on the target and there was no CL[esque] hp. A portion of the damage was derived directly from the bow being used (in addition to the bow speed). I think it was dragon bow or one from Sidi, if not both
You're also forgetting the charge delve on D/Q got cut
Tue 3 Nov 2020 1:47 PM by Parole
Forlornhope wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 10:35 AM
People have mentioned getting three shot from nukes quite a lot... And have even suggested nerfing the debuff value. Don't act like nobody talks about it or has mentioned it because people have on numerous occasions. What people like you fail to realize (or just blatantly ignore) is you can actually see the three caster trains who are about to nuke you. There's literally nothing you can do about instant dying from four stealthed targets, unless literally every single person in the group has a shield tank stuck to them at all times.. Which I probably don't have to say is not feasible or going to happen.

Exactly. At least then you have time to grab your ankles and reach for the lube. Big diff, great point.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 1:53 PM by gruenesschaf
easytoremember wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 11:45 AM
Shots from a scout was higher back then and more often than not there was no spec AF on the target and there was no CL[esque] hp. A portion of the damage was derived directly from the bow being used (in addition to the bow speed). I think it was dragon bow or one from Sidi, if not both
You're also forgetting the charge delve on D/Q got cut

You didn't have CL HP but if you attacked an 8man person you could be reasonably sure that they had spec af up as pretty much everyone had low level mp cloth hands just for that charge. If you attacked something else chances were high that they were also wearing garbage.
D/Q charge value also doesn't matter as you were BB buffed.

The time scout / ranger shots were noticeably higher was in the first couple weeks after ToA was released when you had your stuff, maybe even close to 25% toa damage if you were quick, and other people were running around as oceanus randoms, that's when you pretty much always had 8/900+ crit shots against those targets regardless of their class.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 1:53 PM by Sepplord
Parole wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 1:47 PM
Exactly. At least then you have time to grab your ankles and reach for the lube. Big diff, great point.
If that's the only thing you can think off, then i understand why you think casters casting are the same (or worse) as archers shooting from stealth.
Not everyone is that bad though
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:40 PM by Peligroso
Parole wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 1:47 PM
Forlornhope wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 10:35 AM
People have mentioned getting three shot from nukes quite a lot... And have even suggested nerfing the debuff value. Don't act like nobody talks about it or has mentioned it because people have on numerous occasions. What people like you fail to realize (or just blatantly ignore) is you can actually see the three caster trains who are about to nuke you. There's literally nothing you can do about instant dying from four stealthed targets, unless literally every single person in the group has a shield tank stuck to them at all times.. Which I probably don't have to say is not feasible or going to happen.

Exactly. At least then you have time to grab your ankles and reach for the lube. Big diff, great point.

Man, stop with your narrow mind set. You sound like a kid that’s lost their fav toy and proceed to throw everything else out of the pram.

There is a huge difference between being nuked by a visible assist train from 1500 range compared to a stealthed insta kill from 2000-2500 range.
Suck it up big boy
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:20 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 9:21 AM
nice try of an ad hominem here, in fact it is only pointing out that you are wrong even though you keep ignoring what i say.
you are right not in grp=solo but soloing with the need of adding and/or running into guards or fireing from an invunerable position is in fact nothing that has to do with soloing since you actually are not solo, you get help from npcs, keeps and other players. and again your playstyle does not grant you "solo kills" for a reason so sftu pretending you are a solo guy. you are not. period.

You wanna blame ppl that they go there where the action is, task zones as an example? Players fault that there are other players in an overcrowded area, huh?

Sometimes i have a slight suspicion that some ppl are not playing solo by choice, they must play solo because they fkkd up with every single person in their own realm just because of their attitude.

Btw, if you get help from a guard and no other player damaged your target it counts as a solo-kill.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:31 PM by Sepplord
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:20 PM
Btw, if you get help from a guard and no other player damaged your target it counts as a solo-kill.

Can confirm, my cleric got a solokill before being 50 while AFKing the taskkeep.
apparently she was attacked and some ROG-procc went off and when the guards killed the attacker she got solokill credit
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:44 PM by Parole
Peligroso wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:40 PM
Man, stop with your narrow mind set. You sound like a kid that’s lost their fav toy and proceed to throw everything else out of the pram.

There is a huge difference between being nuked by a visible assist train from 1500 range compared to a stealthed insta kill from 2000-2500 range.
Suck it up big boy

There is no diff.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 5:21 PM by bigne88
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 9:15 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:57 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:18 PM
its 12.68% solo kills.... a dedicated solo player would def have a much higher percentage. i know that for fact since i solo 100% and i have 43% on my hunter and i get added alot!
also i know that some of these "solos" are indeed just adding everything that moves. pathetic that they call themselfes solo player rofl

Well, maybe they have an other understanding from running around solo and give a shit about stats? Who knows?
Like 8 slot groups that do no gvg.

Your attitude is horrible....

pretending to be a solo player but add everything is a horrible attitude dude
solo play i when you recieve a "solo kill" and dont share rp with another player... get it?

Once again via definition : not grouped = solo
Adding on everything = one way of many to play this game


Taking a game that serious that i know exactly my % on solo kills, stalking other players on the herald to check their ratio has something to do with a masculine profil neurosis and/or obsession.
Yea, yea, now go back ganking some grey exper.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:13 PM by Stoertebecker
bigne88 wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 5:21 PM
Yea, yea, now go back ganking some grey exper.

I dont need to travel, they come to Midgard like lemmings each 135 minutes
But i have to admit i like the yellow con more
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:25 PM by stewbeedoo
Noashakra wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:20 PM
I think it was a bit harsh on archers, but as none of them solo anyway, it's fine in the end.
Nerf champion and stop is long due vs pot buffs.

You see, people are not against all the changes :p

None solo?! You wound me dude.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:47 PM by Peligroso
Parole wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:44 PM
Peligroso wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:40 PM
Man, stop with your narrow mind set. You sound like a kid that’s lost their fav toy and proceed to throw everything else out of the pram.

There is a huge difference between being nuked by a visible assist train from 1500 range compared to a stealthed insta kill from 2000-2500 range.
Suck it up big boy

There is no diff.

Confirmed that you’re deluded
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:54 PM by stewbeedoo
I have no problem with this damage nerf. I have always specced only 35 archery on my Ranger and yet will hit casters sometimes for 1025 critshots. I could maybe understand that kind of damage at 50 archery, but at 35 that was ridiculous. So an adjustment was in order.

But the real problem is archer assist trains. As I recall on Live a target could only be critshot once and then they had an immunity from all other critshots. So the first arrow hit hard and later arrows from other players did far less damage. Something like this makes sense to me, rather than more archery damage reductions.

So I am not in favor of further nerfs, as this will make soloing even more rare. Prior to this nerf, when I hit light tanks or tanks with critshot I was typically only hitting them for ~20% of their health. So once we got to melee things could go downhill for me very fast. As a solo Ranger I already had to be very careful which targets I pick. I know that my bow won't be able to do enough damage before we engage in melee to have a chance of winning. So my targets are other sneaks, casters and <RR5 tanks/hybrids (obviously exceptions depending on the skill of the player). This is ok and maybe even the way things should logically be, but further archery damage nerfs would suck for the solo Ranger.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 10:03 PM by gotwqqd
stewbeedoo wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:54 PM
I have no problem with this damage nerf. I have always specced only 35 archery on my Ranger and yet will hit casters sometimes for 1025 critshots. I could maybe understand that kind of damage at 50 archery, but at 35 that was ridiculous. So an adjustment was in order.

But the real problem is archer assist trains. As I recall on Live a target could only be critshot once and then they had an immunity from all other critshots. So the first arrow hit hard and later arrows from other players did far less damage. Something like this makes sense to me, rather than more archery damage reductions.

So I am not in favor of further nerfs, as this will make soloing even more rare. Prior to this nerf, when I hit light tanks or tanks with critshot I was typically only hitting them for ~20% of their health. So once we got to melee things could go downhill for me very fast. As a solo Ranger I already had to be very careful which targets I pick. I know that my bow won't be able to do enough damage before we engage in melee to have a chance of winning. So my targets are other sneaks, casters and <RR5 tanks/hybrids (obviously exceptions depending on the skill of the player). This is ok and maybe even the way things should logically be, but further archery damage nerfs would suck for the solo Ranger.
When you’re trained by 6 archers does it really matter how many are critshots? You will have 12 arrows on you in <3 seconds
Tue 3 Nov 2020 10:40 PM by Cotea
Kwall0311 wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:41 PM
DinoTriz wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 2:36 PM
Sorry, but this would be a terrible idea.

You would penalize people for....grouping together??


Honestly i think there are different circumstances here. Sure casters can assist with debuff, but CANT do it from jump shooting over walls, CANT do it through the windows

Actually this they can do...
Wed 4 Nov 2020 7:15 AM by Sepplord
they can, but not even close to how easily archers can

archer: preload arrow without target, jump and spam shoot+nearesttarget/assist/etc..., arrow releases whenever there is LOS for a milisecond

Caster: target required, jump and spam cast to start cast, then jump and have your target in LOS exactly when the end of cast LOS check happens

Even if your targets are completely blind, it is much harder for casters to pull off. And if your target is paying any attention they can see the caster starting to cast and react
Wed 4 Nov 2020 8:28 AM by inoeth
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:20 PM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 9:21 AM
nice try of an ad hominem here, in fact it is only pointing out that you are wrong even though you keep ignoring what i say.
you are right not in grp=solo but soloing with the need of adding and/or running into guards or fireing from an invunerable position is in fact nothing that has to do with soloing since you actually are not solo, you get help from npcs, keeps and other players. and again your playstyle does not grant you "solo kills" for a reason so sftu pretending you are a solo guy. you are not. period.

You wanna blame ppl that they go there where the action is, task zones as an example? Players fault that there are other players in an overcrowded area, huh?

Sometimes i have a slight suspicion that some ppl are not playing solo by choice, they must play solo because they fkkd up with every single person in their own realm just because of their attitude.

Btw, if you get help from a guard and no other player damaged your target it counts as a solo-kill.

another ad hominem, nice!
only thing i say is that you are not a solo player, nothing more nothing less. well even though you drag ppl into guards, you dont have alot of solo kills.....

man stop it its getting ridicolous
Wed 4 Nov 2020 10:12 AM by Catkain
Whatever you did to champions: It is not noticable at all to me. Maybe I'm just a bad anti-champion player but there is no noticable difference for me.

I did think champions were too strong 1v1 before and I still think they are (even if some of them smell good).

<3
Wed 4 Nov 2020 1:02 PM by Sepplord
Catkain wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 10:12 AM
Whatever you did to champions: It is not noticable at all to me. Maybe I'm just a bad anti-champion player but there is no noticable difference for me.

I did think champions were too strong 1v1 before and I still think they are (even if some of them smell good).

<3
The change isn't as big as it sounds, and depending on the class you play even less to non-existant (aka if you were for example a shaman selfbuffing yourself nothing would change, if you were a friar buffing bases yourself, the change would be smaller as only the pot-speccs were affected)
Wed 4 Nov 2020 2:30 PM by Noashakra
stewbeedoo wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:25 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:20 PM
I think it was a bit harsh on archers, but as none of them solo anyway, it's fine in the end.
Nerf champion and stop is long due vs pot buffs.

You see, people are not against all the changes :p

None solo?! You wound me dude.

You barely play no? I don't see you anymore.

inoeth wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 8:28 AM
another ad hominem, nice!
only thing i say is that you are not a solo player, nothing more nothing less. well even though you drag ppl into guards, you dont have alot of solo kills.....

man stop it its getting ridicolous

You are kind of right. a soloer has usually 30%+ solo kills.
Wed 4 Nov 2020 3:11 PM by Stoertebecker
Noashakra wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 2:30 PM
You are kind of right. a soloer has usually 30%+ solo kills.

Not necessarily. If someone has fun in participating in keep fights and runs solo the rest of the time you`re not going to see such a high %.
Wed 4 Nov 2020 3:20 PM by Noashakra
Stoertebecker wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 3:11 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 2:30 PM
You are kind of right. a soloer has usually 30%+ solo kills.

Not necessarily. If someone has fun in participating in keep fights and runs solo the rest of the time you`re not going to see such a high %.

The solo spots are usually far from keep fights.
Look at the top 20 ranger per solo kills. You know in a blink of an eye who is really solo.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=ranger

Huging Crauchon waiting to add is not soloing.
Wed 4 Nov 2020 3:29 PM by Sepplord
what he means, what about someone who enjoys both keepfights and fighting solo when there is no good keepfight nearby...

Just hypothetically:
Does someone who has 2000legit solo RvR-kills suddenly lose everything they know about soloing just because they join keepfights for a few weeks?
What if they started with keepfights, and went solo at a hiher RR?
What if they are solo most of the time, but group 20% of their playtime when friends are on?
What about someone killing XPers all the time raking in solokills?

Gatekeeping someones right to speak about their solo-experience behind an arbitrary solokill-% is not feasible, imo
If what they say is bullshit, refute that bullshit.
Wed 4 Nov 2020 5:03 PM by Noashakra
I know all the rangers from the top 20, and their behavior is in accordance with their stats.
It's the same for assassins.

I don't know a soloer who enjoys keep fights on his solo toon. You could make a case for Wutan, but he plays in Beno when it's not attacked .

Someone who zerged his way to the 10/11L is never really a solo. They keep adding and they go alone very rarely because they get destroyed 1vs1 (some SB and infiltrator 10/11L who don't know how to switch poisons, if you know who I speak about). Those who also AFK RA to go out once every 15mn and who stay close to their keep 99% of the time to get favorable adds are also not soloers in my book.
Wed 4 Nov 2020 7:48 PM by Stoertebecker
Noashakra wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 5:03 PM
I don't know a soloer who enjoys keep fights on his solo toon. You could make a case for Wutan, but he plays in Beno when it's not attacked .

Keep Sieges are fun as a hunter (archers in general), and 1 keep fight can ruin your solo stats for 1 week or more. Maybe not funny for a tank, but optimal playground for archers.

Running around a keep/bridges is not what i mean.
Thu 5 Nov 2020 1:27 AM by bigne88
stewbeedoo wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:54 PM
I have no problem with this damage nerf. I have always specced only 35 archery on my Ranger and yet will hit casters sometimes for 1025 critshots. I could maybe understand that kind of damage at 50 archery, but at 35 that was ridiculous. So an adjustment was in order.

But the real problem is archer assist trains. As I recall on Live a target could only be critshot once and then they had an immunity from all other critshots. So the first arrow hit hard and later arrows from other players did far less damage. Something like this makes sense to me, rather than more archery damage reductions.

So I am not in favor of further nerfs, as this will make soloing even more rare. Prior to this nerf, when I hit light tanks or tanks with critshot I was typically only hitting them for ~20% of their health. So once we got to melee things could go downhill for me very fast. As a solo Ranger I already had to be very careful which targets I pick. I know that my bow won't be able to do enough damage before we engage in melee to have a chance of winning. So my targets are other sneaks, casters and <RR5 tanks/hybrids (obviously exceptions depending on the skill of the player). This is ok and maybe even the way things should logically be, but further archery damage nerfs would suck for the solo Ranger.

I like your arguments and i could even be agree. But lets be realistic: only a masochist rolls an archer to be a soloer. Most of archers rolls it to grief on others because they are too lazy or too bad to play visible.

Reroll a melee stealther maybe, for solo?
And btw, real men who wants to solo roll a visible class. All the others are sneaky honorless dodgers.
A real soloer must adapt to what it comes in front of it, everytime, he cant vanish away.
90% of stealther's solo kills are made by grey expers and the solo caster who goes to dock to get to his BG.

Sorry for my retard english, I just finished a csgo map playing with a team of russians and my braincells are exploded.
Thu 5 Nov 2020 7:17 AM by Noashakra
And btw, real men who wants to solo roll a visible class. All the others are sneaky honorless dodgers.
A real soloer must adapt to what it comes in front of it, everytime, he cant vanish away.

Solo visible are masochists on this server. There is no respect for them. That's why there are few of them, and they usually don't play a long time, because they get crazy after one hour. They also get /rude and /rofl for no reasons. They get zerg all the time and they have no way to avoid getting ganked.

Try to do it and come back to us with your feedback.

Hell, I am playing ministrel now, and it's a nightmare, even in the early morning. I have speed 5, they have speed 3. Do you think it's fun to "adapt" by running 30mn to low density areas? Even in the relic gate this morning at 8.30am, there was 4 mids camping the hib side farming solos. Adapt, yeah sure. I am sorry but you speak without any knowledge about the subject.
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:01 AM by Stoertebecker
One reason may be that Minstrels are KoS before any other class
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:25 AM by Noashakra
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:01 AM
One reason may be that Minstrels are KoS before any other class

It's the same for me, and the class deserves it. But let's be honnest, every solo is KoS on this server. If the ministrel was KoS and the other visi solo let alive, I would not post.

My point was that the menestrel has speed 5, SOS and CC, tell me what a heavy tank can do vs the red is dead people?
Thu 5 Nov 2020 2:41 PM by Stoertebecker
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:25 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:01 AM
One reason may be that Minstrels are KoS before any other class

It's the same for me, and the class deserves it. But let's be honnest, every solo is KoS on this server. If the ministrel was KoS and the other visi solo let alive, I would not post.

My point was that the menestrel has speed 5, SOS and CC, tell me what a heavy tank can do vs the red is dead people?

You can do nothing, but that effects each solo player, even assassins and archers.
It`s part of the game, the realm war...even the discussions about it are part of the game, for 20y now.

I`d like to see another try setting up a solo zone. Not an instanced area, an existing map not used for tasks where you can use a porter and spawn somewhere in it randomly.
50% rp + bp bonus for solo players, no rp+ bp for groups.

You know what would happen? You`d see only the usual strong solo classes there, so it isn`t really thought out.
Thu 5 Nov 2020 3:40 PM by Noashakra
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 2:41 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:25 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:01 AM
One reason may be that Minstrels are KoS before any other class

It's the same for me, and the class deserves it. But let's be honnest, every solo is KoS on this server. If the ministrel was KoS and the other visi solo let alive, I would not post.

My point was that the menestrel has speed 5, SOS and CC, tell me what a heavy tank can do vs the red is dead people?

You can do nothing, but that effects each solo player, even assassins and archers.
It`s part of the game, the realm war...even the discussions about it are part of the game, for 20y now.

On my NS, I can chose my fights depending on the situation, and I can vanish. I don't have to /rel each time I pass by a small man.

My point was only to reply to the "real men who wants to solo roll a visible class". It's coming from someone that don't do that and have no idea how maddening it is.
"A real soloer must adapt to what it comes in front of it" > yeah he can prepare the /rel in advance...

Our dear shalelu sometimes has 0 kills per hour, I admire her for the tenacity, she did it all the way to the 10L. But I am sure bigne88 would stop after 2 hours.
I am sorry, when I come back from work, I want to have fun, and releasing every 5mn without kills isn't for me. It's impossible in prime time, you can only do it if you can play during the week on office hours.
Thu 5 Nov 2020 4:07 PM by evert
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 3:40 PM
It's impossible in prime time, you can only do it if you can play during the week on office hours.

Yeah just to be clear, I've stopped playing (almost entirely, group sometimes) primetime because there's 0 point soloing even on a skald. The only other soloers are stealthers hanging out in high-traffic areas, or xpers. Luckily I work from home since Covid so I can have fun soloing during the day
Thu 5 Nov 2020 7:32 PM by Catkain
I have the same philosophy as one of the bro’s/dudes earlier: As a solo skald it is my responsibility to avoid groups. Sure, I get caught a lot (top10 dead guy on server woot) but I still think it is my own responsibility as a super fast and agile soloer to avoid groups.

I often charge into smallmans in the hope that I will kill one and someone will come kill the rest. Lower rank duos I view as a totally fair fight and I pursue them.

The fifth verse of my battle chant:
“To be a visible soloer is to know true doom, your shield gets smashed and you daily feel you miss your mothers womb.

Skalds are strong skalds are cute, toss hibs from mountains with no parachute. Skalds are gorgeous, skalds are sweet. Corpses of albs we love to eat!” - Catkain 13:5
Fri 6 Nov 2020 12:48 AM by Forlornhope
Catkain wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 7:32 PM
I have the same philosophy as one of the bro’s/dudes earlier: As a solo skald it is my responsibility to avoid groups. Sure, I get caught a lot (top10 dead guy on server woot) but I still think it is my own responsibility as a super fast and agile soloer to avoid groups.

I often charge into smallmans in the hope that I will kill one and someone will come kill the rest. Lower rank duos I view as a totally fair fight and I pursue them.

The fifth verse of my battle chant:
“To be a visible soloer is to know true doom, your shield gets smashed and you daily feel you miss your mothers womb.

Skalds are strong skalds are cute, toss hibs from mountains with no parachute. Skalds are gorgeous, skalds are sweet. Corpses of albs we love to eat!” - Catkain 13:5

Amen
Fri 6 Nov 2020 7:14 AM by Noashakra
Forlornhope wrote:
Fri 6 Nov 2020 12:48 AM
Amen

Again, he is playing a skald.
He can avoir small man because of speed 5 and SOS.

GL on a hero/merc/reaver
Fri 6 Nov 2020 12:13 PM by Forlornhope
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 6 Nov 2020 7:14 AM
Forlornhope wrote:
Fri 6 Nov 2020 12:48 AM
Amen

Again, he is playing a skald.
He can avoir small man because of speed 5 and SOS.

GL on a hero/merc/reaver

The 'amen' comment was to the CK bible verse at the end, I know what he plays and was pretty much just continuing the joke between us that everything catkain does, says, or thinks is holy. So, kind of just an inside joke between people who have known each other for a few years.
Fri 6 Nov 2020 6:41 PM by Noashakra
Forlornhope wrote:
Fri 6 Nov 2020 12:13 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 6 Nov 2020 7:14 AM
Forlornhope wrote:
Fri 6 Nov 2020 12:48 AM
Amen

Again, he is playing a skald.
He can avoir small man because of speed 5 and SOS.

GL on a hero/merc/reaver

The 'amen' comment was to the CK bible verse at the end, I know what he plays and was pretty much just continuing the joke between us that everything catkain does, says, or thinks is holy. So, kind of just an inside joke between people who have known each other for a few years.

Gotcha
Sat 7 Nov 2020 4:15 AM by bigne88
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 3:40 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 2:41 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:25 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:01 AM
One reason may be that Minstrels are KoS before any other class

It's the same for me, and the class deserves it. But let's be honnest, every solo is KoS on this server. If the ministrel was KoS and the other visi solo let alive, I would not post.

My point was that the menestrel has speed 5, SOS and CC, tell me what a heavy tank can do vs the red is dead people?

You can do nothing, but that effects each solo player, even assassins and archers.
It`s part of the game, the realm war...even the discussions about it are part of the game, for 20y now.

On my NS, I can chose my fights depending on the situation, and I can vanish. I don't have to /rel each time I pass by a small man.

My point was only to reply to the "real men who wants to solo roll a visible class". It's coming from someone that don't do that and have no idea how maddening it is.
"A real soloer must adapt to what it comes in front of it" > yeah he can prepare the /rel in advance...

Our dear shalelu sometimes has 0 kills per hour, I admire her for the tenacity, she did it all the way to the 10L. But I am sure bigne88 would stop after 2 hours.
I am sorry, when I come back from work, I want to have fun, and releasing every 5mn without kills isn't for me. It's impossible in prime time, you can only do it if you can play during the week on office hours.

I see, you are one of thous griefers who afk 15 minutes.

Sadly I cant endure too long, even if I do, in solo activity cause A.I'm really bad at the game, B.I never solo in primetime(no point) C.I dont have much time to play, outside primetime. Same as you.
The only difference between us is that when Im back from work I dont wanna grief on other players, but play with them. I dont have this revenge feeling thowards humanity. Yet. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a shit job and an ugly gf and Ill roll a ranger to feel better.

Trust me, friend, during primetime is plenty of nice visible players who will be happy to party with you.
You are not alone.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 8:28 AM by Jerrian
As I understand that a bunch of rangers might be a big annoyance and can cause massive havoc, it ´s in my opinion not a smart move to nerf rangers (or even scouts, hunters) just of the cause that alot of players use to play them.

Because the solo ranger was and is from skillset and especially damage not op.
I had prefered a solution where the target gets less damage when hit by multiple archers and not reduced in generally, because as said, archers are mostly troublesome when appearing in groups.

Due if even by many players in Hibernia not liked, they are a good force to fix a bit Hibernias underpopulation problem and the nerf might lead to a playerloss, less played rangers and more imbalance in rvr numbers. Ofc you can say, these players will play more other groupfriendly classes now, but these re-education never worked well in daoc, best example was Uthgard with their "visions" many players just skip playing when their favourite toon gets nerfed and from their point of view unplayable.

Another point: If archer classes be dumped in their bowdamage output and be forced to switch to melee specc, there is no need in playing an archer class anymore as the assasin will always be more viable in it as an archer could ever been as it is setup on phoenix right now, and I doubt there will be a melee friendly fix for rangers as they are already unliked that much.
- Full respecc is nice, but maybe a class respecc or quest event to give them the choice to become a nigtshade would be better.-

The ranger-fix was probably somehow necessary but like it is, it was no smart fix imho.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 8:37 AM by Lollie
Could have removed the fire from stealth, would have went some way into fixing the problem
Sat 7 Nov 2020 9:44 AM by Patron
Lvl a ranger/archer to 50 and get a SC need alot of heartblood, tears, plats and time.

Its just really dumb of the staff to think they can tweak a archetype without any playerloss.
And they did it with stealther, why they should not nerf other archetypes?
This way to act leads to a lower trust in the staff and the future of this great project.

Every assist matters!
A archer assist is same to caster or melee assist.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 11:03 AM by Stoertebecker
Patron wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 9:44 AM
Lvl a ranger/archer to 50 and get a SC need alot of heartblood, tears, plats and time.

My Hunter was the fastest toon if it comes to leveling, my ranger made it from 0 to 50 and rr5+ within 5 days during the rvr event. So, yes...amazing amount of heartblood and tears

A archer assist is same to caster or melee assist.

Only in the outcome, not from the start of a fight. Thats the difference.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 1:10 PM by bigne88
Jerrian wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 8:28 AM
As I understand that a bunch of rangers might be a big annoyance and can cause massive havoc, it ´s in my opinion not a smart move to nerf rangers (or even scouts, hunters) just of the cause that alot of players use to play them.

Because the solo ranger was and is from skillset and especially damage not op.
I had prefered a solution where the target gets less damage when hit by multiple archers and not reduced in generally, because as said, archers are mostly troublesome when appearing in groups.

Due if even by many players in Hibernia not liked, they are a good force to fix a bit Hibernias underpopulation problem and the nerf might lead to a playerloss, less played rangers and more imbalance in rvr numbers. Ofc you can say, these players will play more other groupfriendly classes now, but these re-education never worked well in daoc, best example was Uthgard with their "visions" many players just skip playing when their favourite toon gets nerfed and from their point of view unplayable.

Another point: If archer classes be dumped in their bowdamage output and be forced to switch to melee specc, there is no need in playing an archer class anymore as the assasin will always be more viable in it as an archer could ever been as it is setup on phoenix right now, and I doubt there will be a melee friendly fix for rangers as they are already unliked that much.
- Full respecc is nice, but maybe a class respecc or quest event to give them the choice to become a nigtshade would be better.-

The ranger-fix was probably somehow necessary but like it is, it was no smart fix imho.
Maybe it is not clear, but the problem it is not the damage itself, but the amount of archers that populate the server and how they are played:
If you give to a bounch of noobs an invisible class with strong damage and long range, you have a recipe for doom.

A cabalist or an enchanter do more damage than an archer, have more utility and are welcome in every parties, but a griefer-minded player will always go for the easy, shady, stealthy way.


And this is starts a negative escalation: 8v8 groups dosent use anymore the /gvg list so they go roam into /task area, add on every other former /gvg list groups, zerg down small men and solo;

Than zerg groups (BGs) sees a lot of groups around task area and decide that is a good idea going there and zerging everything that moves, instead of hitting a keep-door with a hammer.

Than 8men and small men starts to dodge task area (because it's zerged) and go sit on beno/dc/bled dock zerging down everyone.

Than the whoum who are zerged, the spineless players who dosent understand this negative escalation, will say to themself: "I cant even reach my doc to reach my BG who is zerging the task area, I will reroll an archer! So I can move around invisible and add on anything that moves with zero effort!"

End of the story.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 2:38 PM by Stoertebecker
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 1:10 PM
And this is starts a negative escalation: 8v8 groups dosent use anymore the /gvg list so they go roam into /task area, add on every other former /gvg list groups, zerg down small men and solo;

8men were already zerging down solo player and smallmen at a time where we had maybe 10 archers per realm, so that isn`t an indicator.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 6:33 PM by bigne88
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 2:38 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 1:10 PM
And this is starts a negative escalation: 8v8 groups dosent use anymore the /gvg list so they go roam into /task area, add on every other former /gvg list groups, zerg down small men and solo;

8men were already zerging down solo player and smallmen at a time where we had maybe 10 archers per realm, so that isn`t an indicator.

There is a big difference betwen random 8men region pugs who roams anywere (like smallmen do) and /gvg listed 8men.
I was talking about the latest.

I'll elaborate a bit.
There was a recent change to the /gvg list meccanics were if the 2 parties accept a clean fight and the logs reports damage from any kind of third party, all the 16 members of both groups will se a 10k rps whipe for each player.

A single arrow from 2k clips from an unnoticed noob would wipe 160k of rps.
And since it's always full of noobs archers ready to add 8v8, people stopped to list themself.
And dont get me started with the thing that there are people who intentionally log his archer to shoot 1 arrow during a clean 8v8 to make groups RPs whipe.

Sorry for my englando.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 6:45 PM by gotwqqd
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 2:38 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 1:10 PM
And this is starts a negative escalation: 8v8 groups dosent use anymore the /gvg list so they go roam into /task area, add on every other former /gvg list groups, zerg down small men and solo;

8men were already zerging down solo player and smallmen at a time where we had maybe 10 archers per realm, so that isn`t an indicator.
Running around solo I can use my terrain to keep out of sight over 50% of the time versus visables.

This doesn’t exist with stealth and if it’s a group or 3 + its instant death. Even 2 spells doom vast majority of time.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 8:15 PM by Noashakra
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 4:15 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 3:40 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 2:41 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:25 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 5 Nov 2020 11:01 AM
One reason may be that Minstrels are KoS before any other class

It's the same for me, and the class deserves it. But let's be honnest, every solo is KoS on this server. If the ministrel was KoS and the other visi solo let alive, I would not post.

My point was that the menestrel has speed 5, SOS and CC, tell me what a heavy tank can do vs the red is dead people?

You can do nothing, but that effects each solo player, even assassins and archers.
It`s part of the game, the realm war...even the discussions about it are part of the game, for 20y now.

On my NS, I can chose my fights depending on the situation, and I can vanish. I don't have to /rel each time I pass by a small man.

My point was only to reply to the "real men who wants to solo roll a visible class". It's coming from someone that don't do that and have no idea how maddening it is.
"A real soloer must adapt to what it comes in front of it" > yeah he can prepare the /rel in advance...

Our dear shalelu sometimes has 0 kills per hour, I admire her for the tenacity, she did it all the way to the 10L. But I am sure bigne88 would stop after 2 hours.
I am sorry, when I come back from work, I want to have fun, and releasing every 5mn without kills isn't for me. It's impossible in prime time, you can only do it if you can play during the week on office hours.

I see, you are one of thous griefers who afk 15 minutes.

Sadly I cant endure too long, even if I do, in solo activity cause A.I'm really bad at the game, B.I never solo in primetime(no point) C.I dont have much time to play, outside primetime. Same as you.
The only difference between us is that when Im back from work I dont wanna grief on other players, but play with them. I dont have this revenge feeling thowards humanity. Yet. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a shit job and an ugly gf and Ill roll a ranger to feel better.

Trust me, friend, during primetime is plenty of nice visible players who will be happy to party with you.
You are not alone.

You see, I tell you that you speak without knowing, and you confirm with this post. Every assumption on your message is false.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 9:34 PM by Stoertebecker
gotwqqd wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 6:45 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 2:38 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 7 Nov 2020 1:10 PM
And this is starts a negative escalation: 8v8 groups dosent use anymore the /gvg list so they go roam into /task area, add on every other former /gvg list groups, zerg down small men and solo;

8men were already zerging down solo player and smallmen at a time where we had maybe 10 archers per realm, so that isn`t an indicator.
Running around solo I can use my terrain to keep out of sight over 50% of the time versus visables.

This doesn’t exist with stealth and if it’s a group or 3 + its instant death. Even 2 spells doom vast majority of time.

What has the one thing to do with the other? Missed my point, eh?
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:06 AM by Valaraukar
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:07 AM
Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM
Totally agree...I've seen also people evading a crit shot fired from stealth...lol
Ganking archers is an issue but I fear that this change will have the opposite effect. They will group even more than before. Nerf hugely stealth when grouped and something may change for good, but if you nerf the "single" damage the obvious result will be that instead of 4 rangers there will be 8 to crit assist the visible solo or adding in fights.
I keep seeing this argument, and it really shows the critical thinking skills of the people playing in these stealthgroups. Have you thought that through Valaraukar? Did you even think a second about what you are saying there?
Your claim is that there will be more archergroups after the change, AND that they will be twice as big....huh....so a huge nerf comes and you are telling me that will double the archer population? Because if it doubles the groupsize without doubling the population, then there must be half as many groups. Gradeshool math



What huge nerf? Try to read again what I've said, maybe you'll understand. The single damage has been nerfed SO archers will group even more than before because the class is less viable in solo than before. I don't know if this will increase the archers population or just make the exisisting archers grouping more than before. And anyway I don't play in stealthgroups, and my Hunter is specced with low Bow because 90% of the fights are against other stealthers where bow is useless (and Mid bow has always been crap compared to the other realms).
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:31 AM by Cadebrennus
Valaraukar wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:06 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:07 AM
Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:54 PM
Totally agree...I've seen also people evading a crit shot fired from stealth...lol
Ganking archers is an issue but I fear that this change will have the opposite effect. They will group even more than before. Nerf hugely stealth when grouped and something may change for good, but if you nerf the "single" damage the obvious result will be that instead of 4 rangers there will be 8 to crit assist the visible solo or adding in fights.
I keep seeing this argument, and it really shows the critical thinking skills of the people playing in these stealthgroups. Have you thought that through Valaraukar? Did you even think a second about what you are saying there?
Your claim is that there will be more archergroups after the change, AND that they will be twice as big....huh....so a huge nerf comes and you are telling me that will double the archer population? Because if it doubles the groupsize without doubling the population, then there must be half as many groups. Gradeshool math



What huge nerf? Try to read again what I've said, maybe you'll understand. The single damage has been nerfed SO archers will group even more than before because the class is less viable in solo than before. I don't know if this will increase the archers population or just make the exisisting archers grouping more than before. And anyway I don't play in stealthgroups, and my Hunter is specced with low Bow because 90% of the fights are against other stealthers where bow is useless (and Mid bow has always been crap compared to the other realms).

Mid bow has been untouched during this last nerf, so they are completely unaffected.

That being said, what is your low bow spec? I'm leveling a Hunter right now.
Sun 8 Nov 2020 12:00 PM by gromet12
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:31 AM
Mid bow has been untouched during this last nerf, so they are completely unaffected.

That being said, what is your low bow spec? I'm leveling a Hunter right now.

- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%

Certainly looks like they touched Mid Bow (crit shot multiplier if you need a sign). Difference is the dmg done by the Hunter has always been subpar in terms of archery dmg vs the other classes.
Sun 8 Nov 2020 4:47 PM by Cadebrennus
gromet12 wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 12:00 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:31 AM
Mid bow has been untouched during this last nerf, so they are completely unaffected.

That being said, what is your low bow spec? I'm leveling a Hunter right now.

- Crit shot damage multiplier has been reduced from 2 to 1.75
- Ranger bow damage has been decreased by 9%
- Scout bow damage has been decreased by 4.5%

Certainly looks like they touched Mid Bow (crit shot multiplier if you need a sign). Difference is the dmg done by the Hunter has always been subpar in terms of archery dmg vs the other classes.

Ah yes I forgot about that thanks. The lack of super slow bows makes this hit Mid far less though. Their weakness has turned into a buffer for this nerf.

Shot per shot over time (not counting critshot) has always been equal to Hib and Alb. Now, they are ahead of Hib and Alb.
Mon 9 Nov 2020 9:14 AM by Sepplord
Valaraukar wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:06 AM
What huge nerf? Try to read again what I've said, maybe you'll understand. The single damage has been nerfed SO archers will group even more than before because the class is less viable in solo than before. I don't know if this will increase the archers population or just make the exisisting archers grouping more than before. And anyway I don't play in stealthgroups, and my Hunter is specced with low Bow because 90% of the fights are against other stealthers where bow is useless (and Mid bow has always been crap compared to the other realms).

What huge nerf? hmm...
Probably the one this whole thread is about?
And yes, i understood what you said, the implications of that claim are just very unlikely to happen. I'll explain it again.

You claim that the nerf will have the opposite effect, aka make the archer-groups-issue worse.

Since archer-dmg is nerfed it requires more archer per group to be as bad as before (so more archers per group are required)

To make the problem worse, more of these groups must exist (also more archers are required to fill these new groups)

The problem could only get worse, if there was an influx of more archers being levelled as response to the class being nerfed...and that just isn't what happens when a class gets nerfed. The opposite happens and that makes it basically impossible that there would be a net increase of archergroups


IF you still can't follow, please tell me at which point you disagree or can't follow the logic. Otherwise i am at a loss how to make it easier to understand
Mon 9 Nov 2020 9:42 AM by inoeth
little hint: nothing will change, rangers still hitting for 450 normal shot
Mon 9 Nov 2020 4:06 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Mon 9 Nov 2020 9:42 AM
little hint: nothing will change, rangers still hitting for 450 normal shot

Thats ok for me, last time a scout or ranger hit me first was in a keep siege, my fault.

If i hit a solo ranger/scout open field first he`s usually dead or runs in panic.
Mon 9 Nov 2020 5:09 PM by Valaraukar
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 9 Nov 2020 9:14 AM
Valaraukar wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:06 AM
What huge nerf? Try to read again what I've said, maybe you'll understand. The single damage has been nerfed SO archers will group even more than before because the class is less viable in solo than before. I don't know if this will increase the archers population or just make the exisisting archers grouping more than before. And anyway I don't play in stealthgroups, and my Hunter is specced with low Bow because 90% of the fights are against other stealthers where bow is useless (and Mid bow has always been crap compared to the other realms).

What huge nerf? hmm...
Probably the one this whole thread is about?
And yes, i understood what you said, the implications of that claim are just very unlikely to happen. I'll explain it again.

You claim that the nerf will have the opposite effect, aka make the archer-groups-issue worse.

Since archer-dmg is nerfed it requires more archer per group to be as bad as before (so more archers per group are required)

To make the problem worse, more of these groups must exist (also more archers are required to fill these new groups)

The problem could only get worse, if there was an influx of more archers being levelled as response to the class being nerfed...and that just isn't what happens when a class gets nerfed. The opposite happens and that makes it basically impossible that there would be a net increase of archergroups


IF you still can't follow, please tell me at which point you disagree or can't follow the logic. Otherwise i am at a loss how to make it easier to understand

I understand what you say and I partially agree that not many "new" archers will be roaming the frontier, but what I think is that the "existing" archers will group even more than before, e.g. instead of a group of 4 there will be a group of 8 (just random numbers for the example) and that the few "solo" archers will be pushed to group together since the nerf affected the single toon damage and not the archers group damage (that is basically the WHOLE issue).
Mon 9 Nov 2020 5:16 PM by Valaraukar
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sun 8 Nov 2020 11:31 AM
...
Mid bow has been untouched during this last nerf, so they are completely unaffected.

That being said, what is your low bow spec? I'm leveling a Hunter right now.


Right now, at RR5 i have 35 archery 41 spear 35 stealth 42 beastcraft. I left 35 in archery for rapid fire, and because I think the 44 style of spear is quite difficult to use since is a 2nd style of a back combo that basically you'll never use in 1vs1.
Mon 9 Nov 2020 7:31 PM by Bry
The AoM buff wasn't necessary. Now, a caster has to deal with a tank with 2750 hp, with full resists, AND AoM, and Empty mind, and Bedazzling Aura. Way to destroy the caster group. I have a rank 11 enchanter and with the 50% debuff, i'm hitting a tank for 350s now. Without Empty Mind and BA up. Just AoM and resist buffs. I understand buffing PD because there is no casted extra resist buff for melee. But everybody gets +24 heat resist from a shaman or a friar in the group. Litterally every group runs a shaman in mid. 95% of groups run friars now since friars are overbuffed.

It was hard enough before as a caster group, but now its that much harder. Because of some random change that nobody complained about. Revert the AoM buff.
Mon 9 Nov 2020 11:10 PM by skipari
Bry wrote:
Mon 9 Nov 2020 7:31 PM
The AoM buff wasn't necessary. Now, a caster has to deal with a tank with 2750 hp, with full resists, AND AoM, and Empty mind, and Bedazzling Aura. Way to destroy the caster group. I have a rank 11 enchanter and with the 50% debuff, i'm hitting a tank for 350s now. Without Empty Mind and BA up. Just AoM and resist buffs. I understand buffing PD because there is no casted extra resist buff for melee. But everybody gets +24 heat resist from a shaman or a friar in the group. Litterally every group runs a shaman in mid. 95% of groups run friars now since friars are overbuffed.

It was hard enough before as a caster group, but now its that much harder. Because of some random change that nobody complained about. Revert the AoM buff.

You already mentioned the 50% debuff, there is, except for some odd necro af debuff, basically nothing which really helps againt the set 26% melee resist. With pd9 your 350 damage is huge compared to any melee hitting you.
Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:23 AM by Sepplord
Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 9 Nov 2020 5:09 PM
I understand what you say and I partially agree that not many "new" archers will be roaming the frontier, but what I think is that the "existing" archers will group even more than before, e.g. instead of a group of 4 there will be a group of 8 (just random numbers for the example) and that the few "solo" archers will be pushed to group together since the nerf affected the single toon damage and not the archers group damage (that is basically the WHOLE issue).

Okay i am starting to realise what our misunderstanding is.
There are only a few solo-archers that would start grouping, but the grouping ones before would build bigger groups reducing the total amount of groups (and therefor also reducing the total amount of area camped by such a group).
If an Archer group before was 4-5archers and now "needs" 6-7archers, then before 12-15archer would be 3groups of 4to5, now they are only 2groups of 6to7.
Unless the amount of soloarchers that start grouping now is so big that they can fill up all existing groups and then build new ones, the issue won't be as big anymore.

in theory at least. (personally i don't think the nerf changes much about peoples playstyle, but it does change people perception and might have driven a few people away from playing the nerfed classes...)
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM by inoeth
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:49 AM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

You have a such a twisted sight on things, ohmy....
What comes next? A true solo caster goes melee with his staff cause it makes no sense using the speclines that were made for his class.
An Archer uses his Bow, how dare they?

Currently we have a nice discussion in the rvr section why Midgard suck so badly if it comes to realm war, keep sieges etc.
Why? It`s all about the dozens of selfish, egocentric players that are not able to play as a team.
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:47 AM by JTaylor072
Maybe stated already but for AoM PD changes what are the new % per level?
Tue 10 Nov 2020 11:36 PM by daytonchambers
Bry wrote:
Mon 9 Nov 2020 7:31 PM
The AoM buff wasn't necessary. Now, a caster has to deal with a tank with 2750 hp, with full resists, AND AoM, and Empty mind, and Bedazzling Aura. Way to destroy the caster group. I have a rank 11 enchanter and with the 50% debuff, i'm hitting a tank for 350s now. Without Empty Mind and BA up. Just AoM and resist buffs. I understand buffing PD because there is no casted extra resist buff for melee. But everybody gets +24 heat resist from a shaman or a friar in the group. Litterally every group runs a shaman in mid. 95% of groups run friars now since friars are overbuffed.

It was hard enough before as a caster group, but now its that much harder. Because of some random change that nobody complained about. Revert the AoM buff.

Debuff caster assist groups were stupid powerful before, and they still are. You think everybody is gonna run AoM9 now that it's marginally better?

A full tank would need to be rr7L1 to get det9, AoM9, and the first empty mind. And that leaves zero points left over. They still need dashing defense, purge, and IP to be able to do their jobs well, which takes them to rr9L1 at a bare minimum. And if a tank chose to go that route, giving up all damage improving RAs in the process, then you SHOULD be hitting them for low numbers. It's called a tank for a reason.

Stop smoking the pots
Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:49 AM by inoeth
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 11:36 PM
Bry wrote:
Mon 9 Nov 2020 7:31 PM
The AoM buff wasn't necessary. Now, a caster has to deal with a tank with 2750 hp, with full resists, AND AoM, and Empty mind, and Bedazzling Aura. Way to destroy the caster group. I have a rank 11 enchanter and with the 50% debuff, i'm hitting a tank for 350s now. Without Empty Mind and BA up. Just AoM and resist buffs. I understand buffing PD because there is no casted extra resist buff for melee. But everybody gets +24 heat resist from a shaman or a friar in the group. Litterally every group runs a shaman in mid. 95% of groups run friars now since friars are overbuffed.

It was hard enough before as a caster group, but now its that much harder. Because of some random change that nobody complained about. Revert the AoM buff.

Debuff caster assist groups were stupid powerful before, and they still are. You think everybody is gonna run AoM9 now that it's marginally better?

A full tank would need to be rr7L1 to get det9, AoM9, and the first empty mind. And that leaves zero points left over. They still need dashing defense, purge, and IP to be able to do their jobs well, which takes them to rr9L1 at a bare minimum. And if a tank chose to go that route, giving up all damage improving RAs in the process, then you SHOULD be hitting them for low numbers. It's called a tank for a reason.

Stop smoking the pots

hm what dmg RAs are you talking about?
mop is crap and so is augstr
Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:55 AM by inoeth
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:49 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

You have a such a twisted sight on things, ohmy....
What comes next? A true solo caster goes melee with his staff cause it makes no sense using the speclines that were made for his class.
An Archer uses his Bow, how dare they?

Currently we have a nice discussion in the rvr section why Midgard suck so badly if it comes to realm war, keep sieges etc.
Why? It`s all about the dozens of selfish, egocentric players that are not able to play as a team.

i did not say dont use bow, but in a solo scenario bow is nearly useless because you end up in melee anyway and if full bow speced you just die (you know that yourself, thats why you never actually solo with your spec)
in fact using bow whenever it is possible is giving you a huge dmg bonus, but you also want to be able to finish your opponent -> melee/hybrid spec

you are right many mid players dont give a fuck about zerg war and keeps because its utter garbage. have you seen me and my kind complaining about the "no zerg leader in mid" issue anywhere? no? for a good reason. we prefer challenging fights which keeps are not
Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:37 PM by Bradekes
inoeth wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:55 AM
you are right many mid players dont give a fuck about zerg war and keeps because its utter garbage. have you seen me and my kind complaining about the "no zerg leader in mid" issue anywhere? no? for a good reason. we prefer challenging fights which keeps are not

But keep fights are challenging for mids. Cause they don't know how to fight in keeps/towers. It's very obvious, unless they have twice the BG size of the other realms which does happen on off-primetime. They lose lots of fights especially on blue Sunday but it seems they still have fun which is most important! They just need more practice and some time away from running around chasing flags all day.
Wed 11 Nov 2020 3:26 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Why isn't this locked yet?

The changes were made, the conversation at this point is about how bad people are at the game and how incredible others believe they are.
Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:40 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:55 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:49 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

You have a such a twisted sight on things, ohmy....
What comes next? A true solo caster goes melee with his staff cause it makes no sense using the speclines that were made for his class.
An Archer uses his Bow, how dare they?

Currently we have a nice discussion in the rvr section why Midgard suck so badly if it comes to realm war, keep sieges etc.
Why? It`s all about the dozens of selfish, egocentric players that are not able to play as a team.

i did not say dont use bow, but in a solo scenario bow is nearly useless because you end up in melee anyway and if full bow speced you just die (you know that yourself, thats why you never actually solo with your spec)


I don`t need a spear for the targets i hunt, a caster/archer/assassin dies or runs, both is fine for me. I simply don`t get kited over the half map and get ganked by a fg.
Why should i shoot someone who is wearing a shield or even bother fighting them? That are tactic basics.

Still wondering where i mentioned the spec i´m running
Thu 12 Nov 2020 8:39 AM by bigne88
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

There are non archers doing 1v1, so, what do you talk about?
Thu 12 Nov 2020 9:23 AM by inoeth
Stoertebecker wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:40 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:55 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:49 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

You have a such a twisted sight on things, ohmy....
What comes next? A true solo caster goes melee with his staff cause it makes no sense using the speclines that were made for his class.
An Archer uses his Bow, how dare they?

Currently we have a nice discussion in the rvr section why Midgard suck so badly if it comes to realm war, keep sieges etc.
Why? It`s all about the dozens of selfish, egocentric players that are not able to play as a team.

i did not say dont use bow, but in a solo scenario bow is nearly useless because you end up in melee anyway and if full bow speced you just die (you know that yourself, thats why you never actually solo with your spec)


I don`t need a spear for the targets i hunt, a caster/archer/assassin dies or runs, both is fine for me. I simply don`t get kited over the half map and get ganked by a fg.
Why should i shoot someone who is wearing a shield or even bother fighting them? That are tactic basics.

Still wondering where i mentioned the spec i´m running

you are archer spec, obviously...

well tactic, sure... your spec simply does not allow attacking any class that is not squishy or already in a fight so you can add conveniently...
Thu 12 Nov 2020 9:24 AM by inoeth
bigne88 wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020 8:39 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

There are non archers doing 1v1, so, what do you talk about?

there were before archery got buffed

have you read my sig?
Thu 12 Nov 2020 12:12 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020 9:23 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:40 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:55 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:49 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:26 AM
real solo players will not suddenly grp because archery dmg is reduced slightly...
real solo players will not go for a high bow spec anyway since you would be bound to add from safe positions like rangers do at DC (hello flup)
real solo players will go melee ofc and will still kick ass because nothing has changed in that area...

i did it that way, others can too, the rejects join the zerg like they have always done. and i still believe nothing has changed, the "nerf" is so marginal

You have a such a twisted sight on things, ohmy....
What comes next? A true solo caster goes melee with his staff cause it makes no sense using the speclines that were made for his class.
An Archer uses his Bow, how dare they?

Currently we have a nice discussion in the rvr section why Midgard suck so badly if it comes to realm war, keep sieges etc.
Why? It`s all about the dozens of selfish, egocentric players that are not able to play as a team.

i did not say dont use bow, but in a solo scenario bow is nearly useless because you end up in melee anyway and if full bow speced you just die (you know that yourself, thats why you never actually solo with your spec)


I don`t need a spear for the targets i hunt, a caster/archer/assassin dies or runs, both is fine for me. I simply don`t get kited over the half map and get ganked by a fg.
Why should i shoot someone who is wearing a shield or even bother fighting them? That are tactic basics.

Still wondering where i mentioned the spec i´m running

you are archer spec, obviously...

well tactic, sure... your spec simply does not allow attacking any class that is not squishy or already in a fight so you can add conveniently...

Even with 50 spear i wouldn`t attack some classes, and classes wearing a shield are a part of that list.

Discussions with you are getting tedious, you`ll find a hair no matter what soup.
Thu 12 Nov 2020 12:56 PM by inoeth
haha LOL ok now i get why do what you do.... you seem to be a very very bad player
just because you cant, does not mean its not possible..
gitgut l2p bro
Thu 12 Nov 2020 1:53 PM by Tashkent
Are you still playing? My experience when I was melee heavy, high spear doesn't win me fights since my dmg output still won't compensate for the low defense of a hunter.
And of course most shield classes are a no go.
Thu 12 Nov 2020 3:43 PM by inoeth
Tashkent wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020 1:53 PM
Are you still playing? My experience when I was melee heavy, high spear doesn't win me fights since my dmg output still won't compensate for the low defense of a hunter.
And of course most shield classes are a no go.

if you need advice -> pm
Thu 12 Nov 2020 5:58 PM by Stoertebecker
inoeth wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020 12:56 PM
haha LOL ok now i get why do what you do.... you seem to be a very very bad player

Mhm, that may be, but a bad player that didn`t die each 2nd kill

I`m pretty sure you would attack a tank with a slingshot in rl.
Fri 13 Nov 2020 12:46 AM by Dunga
it looks like the damage reduction isn't doing what it is supposed to.
i don't think that's the right approach... little by little, a lot was done to prevent melee combat more and more from this and other classes.
for me it started with the adjustment of the hit points (and the not implemented weapon proc patch which should allow a change), no pd, no dodger, reduction of damage on the right armor, mop nerv!!, higher pd for caster,... so if u want to play a bow/stealther you are pushed into the role of the bow.

I think it would not be the worst idea or at least worth considering that the bow classes are given the opportunity to survive in hand-to-hand combat and not only (mostly) every 15 minutes if purge and ip are ready. the more switch to melee, the less bow assist there will be.

with only evade 3 as def. u eat much... i would like to see pd and or dodger ( in any form whatsoever), or a higher base evade. lvl44/50 styles which are extremely useful or cause significantly more damage. that would mean that you can put fewer points in the bow. legendary weapons would also be a good way for me...
Fri 13 Nov 2020 7:33 AM by Sepplord
Could you explain how the increase in HP across the board shifted you away from melee towards bow?
Because that sounds counterintuitive to what i would think happens when TTK is increased.
Fri 13 Nov 2020 11:42 AM by Stoertebecker
Dunga wrote:
Fri 13 Nov 2020 12:46 AM
it looks like the damage reduction isn't doing what it is supposed to.

I don`t know what the devs were expecting with a flat damage reduce by 9%/4,5%.
With 3-4 archers assisting the target would be dead even if you nerf the damage by 20%.

so if u want to play a bow/stealther you are pushed into the role of the bow.
At least with a decent amount of points in archery, and not just 27, 30 or 35.

As i was 50 bow spec i usually critshoted an assassin (90% success, 10% eavded cs ) for 7xx+ damage + 1 rf for 150-175 before they reached melee range.
You have to go at least 3-4 rounds with your spear to compensate that, and you`ll get 5-8 swings in return.

But ok, shitty defense with 50 bow


Critshoted a Minstrel yesterday, in the back...evaded, chance 5,9%. Didn`t know Minstrels habe 360° evade with their evade 2 and a thermal cam on their back.

But maybe it`s because i`m such a bad bad player ^^

Formulars are so borked on this server.....
Fri 13 Nov 2020 2:19 PM by inoeth
Stoertebecker wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020 5:58 PM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020 12:56 PM
haha LOL ok now i get why do what you do.... you seem to be a very very bad player

Mhm, that may be, but a bad player that didn`t die each 2nd kill

I`m pretty sure you would attack a tank with a slingshot in rl.

ofc i see myself as the "david"-type of person
Wed 18 Nov 2020 3:51 AM by boridi
Messerjockel wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 4:29 PM
brewtus23 wrote:
Sun 1 Nov 2020 1:29 PM
Name me a Ranger that solo's

I do, 99.9% of the time

To be honest, I have to see if I still can play solo, if not than I join the stealth Zerg.

Flup, hib.

I ran into the 99.9% solo ranger again!
Wed 18 Nov 2020 8:26 PM by The Skies Asunder
@ Bori

Your interface is giving me cancer. How in the world have you played to 8L4 without using a custom UI? lol
Wed 18 Nov 2020 9:23 PM by Tashkent
I'm disgusted by his wealth!
Thu 19 Nov 2020 2:13 AM by boridi
I'm on a 15" laptop screen. Don't think it would help.

But it's easy to get to 8L4 if all you do is kill lvl 40s in DF
Thu 19 Nov 2020 12:53 PM by Forlornhope
boridi wrote:
Thu 19 Nov 2020 2:13 AM
I'm on a 15" laptop screen. Don't think it would help.

But it's easy to get to 8L4 if all you do is kill lvl 40s in DF

I run on a laptop as well, and the custom UI totally does help. If you're the bori I think you are you definitely should at least check out one with healer helper for your friar. I use ghost since it's the most basic and has everything that's needed <3
Fri 20 Nov 2020 1:34 AM by boridi
Forlornhope wrote:
Thu 19 Nov 2020 12:53 PM
boridi wrote:
Thu 19 Nov 2020 2:13 AM
I'm on a 15" laptop screen. Don't think it would help.

But it's easy to get to 8L4 if all you do is kill lvl 40s in DF

I run on a laptop as well, and the custom UI totally does help. If you're the bori I think you are you definitely should at least check out one with healer helper for your friar. I use ghost since it's the most basic and has everything that's needed <3
Borie the friar is a different person
Fri 20 Nov 2020 2:41 AM by Forlornhope
boridi wrote:
Fri 20 Nov 2020 1:34 AM
Forlornhope wrote:
Thu 19 Nov 2020 12:53 PM
boridi wrote:
Thu 19 Nov 2020 2:13 AM
I'm on a 15" laptop screen. Don't think it would help.

But it's easy to get to 8L4 if all you do is kill lvl 40s in DF

I run on a laptop as well, and the custom UI totally does help. If you're the bori I think you are you definitely should at least check out one with healer helper for your friar. I use ghost since it's the most basic and has everything that's needed <3
Borie the friar is a different person

My apologies
Mon 30 Nov 2020 3:41 PM by watbrif
I'm currently not playing, but what does the archer (especially: ranger) population now post-nerfs actually look like? I have this lingering feeling that people just want to play archer classes, overpowered or nerfed. Has the population significantly decreased?
Mon 30 Nov 2020 4:13 PM by Lollie
There been a considerable drop in ranger in /serverinfo but albs are/were holding all of the relics, make of that what you will.
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