Seasons - DAoC regular resets - Phoenix Freeshard

Some other private server games I play use the concept of seasons to keep players interested. For example, a season may run 6 months then wipe, 2-week break for planning the next season, and bring the server up fresh again. It keeps a somewhat even playing field and makes it easy for newer players to jump in and stick with the game over time - essentially growing what has become a dwindling playerbase. The community could discuss and decide what type of wipe (full, just wipe RR/money/gear and leave chars, etc), but I think something like this would help with the player drop-off quite a bit and keep the game fresh.

I'll admit this is very much wishful thinking as I'd love to come back and just check here occasionally to see if there has been any wipe plans.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 12:19 AM by ExcretusMaximus

DAoC is about getting small increments of power over long period of times which greatly increases your strength the longer you play, resets are the antithesis of this.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:48 AM by amylea

That's not necessarily a reason to not have seasons - you didn't have power when Phoenix started, and now you do - but you're defining power in the bubble of "forever" vs power in the bubble of 6 months of time. Both are power, just at different scales. Power is relative to the overall scale of the game and the time in which it exists in that current state. One of the games I was using as an example, Shadowbane, is entirely about building up power and cities, etc, but it resets every 6 months to prevent that power from being stale or unbalanced. The point I'm making is if you want new players or larger populations, you have to give *them* a taste of the power also. If you don't, that's fine, and seasons don't have to exist, but it's definitely not an antithesis of power.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 3:35 AM by gotwqqd

And some people play so casually they would NEVER reach RR5

Wed 14 Oct 2020 7:03 AM by Sepplord

The heavy players will always have an advantage over the casual players...
i for example can mostly only play once a week. After playing the same char for over a year i am somewhere between RR9 and RR10
i am still weaker than some RR11 dude, but the difference isn't that big, and there are tons of people around that aren't RR11
With a 6monthly reset, the hardcore players would be RR6 by the end of the first week when i get to play for the first time....RR1 VS RR5 is a heavy disadvantage

That said, a reset would allow me to play a different char, since i am starting from scratch anyways. Currently i don't feel like playing for weeks/months (since i only get to play for 5-10hours per week) as absolute low-RR fodder without even bare essential RAs. Especially knowing that the next wipe is just around the corner.

Not saying it is in general a bad idea, but for me personally i don't think it would play out well.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 8:47 AM by inoeth

you should go and play some game which is designed around seasons.
just for interest, which games are you talking about? i dont know a single game where you constantly lose all achievements... maybe i dont know because i would not touch this tbh

Wed 14 Oct 2020 11:47 AM by keen

you can make it with a command like /seasons. that would activate/ deactivate the season setttings. in season settings ur rr is set back to 1 and counting. RPs count for ur seasons progess and ur normal RR progress.
You can ditch out and rejoin anytime. when you deactivate it you have your normal rr back + the rps u made during the seasons setting. when u activate it, it counts from ur last season rr.
it is possibble to do daoc with kind of seasons, just needs some inspiration and brainstorming.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 12:01 PM by nineonezero

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 3:35 AM
And some people play so casually they would NEVER reach RR5

Honestly totally like the idea, or at least a step towards the casual players base, that can’t anymore spend whole afternoon or nights playing like in the childhood (sigh) but still enjoying some hour of a sort of balanced fighting.

The great success of the last event is an example of that imho. Maybe a regular wipe, or a sort of battleground where skill/teamwork still have a chance, without necessarily spending months of gaming time again!

Wed 14 Oct 2020 12:44 PM by Sepplord

nineonezero wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 12:01 PM
Honestly totally like the idea, or at least a step towards the casual players base, that can’t anymore spend whole afternoon or nights playing like in the childhood (sigh) but still enjoying some hour of a sort of balanced fighting.

The great success of the last event is an example of that imho. Maybe a regular wipe, or a sort of battleground where skill/teamwork still have a chance, without necessarily spending months of gaming time again!

I agree with your sentiment, but it is a fallacy that wipes reduce the gap between the hardcore and the casuals.
The playing field is only quite even for the very start after a wipe, but very soon the hardcores pull away very fast but then they reach a point where the progress slows and the advantage declines.
Let's say a hardcore player plays 10hours a day and the casual only plays 1hour per day, both averaging 10k/hr (example numbers, pulled from my behind)

Day1 2L1 VS 3L3
Day7 3L0 VS 5L4
Day30 4L3 VS 8L2
Day60 5L2 VS 10L0
Day90 5L8 VS 11L0
Day120 6L3 VS 11L3
Day300 8L2 VS 12L2

So unless you want to wipe every month, the longer it goes, the closer the gap becomes. An "unfair" gap is created extremely fast in the beginning and it does take long to smooth out, but I'd much rather fight a RR12 on my RR8 than a RR8 on my RR4.

And keep in mind, this assume both have an even start. When you take into account that the casual might only play on the weekends, and the reset is on Monday...then the hardcore will already be RR4 or RR5 when the casual logs in for the first time on his RR1.

This also doesn't account for the hardcore getting bored after grinding out 8realmranks in a month and switching to another char, with seasons they are much more likely to pushpushpush on a single char and play a different char after reset.

And if you put levelling/goldfarming/templating into the equation things get even worse for the casual.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:32 PM by byron

Even if on Phoenix server exping and make a template (for a lot of classes, not all of them) are a lot easier than the original server, knowing that after some time I'll have to start from 0 put me in depression. Exping, make money, raids for credits and feathers requires always some time and not all of us can have it on every reset...
I would agree to do something to mitigate the difference between low level rank players and the higher players , I've started to roam with small men group but we are just 3LX : meeting high level rank players gives us almost no chances (and the power of debuff + cast doesn't help either, to be hit by 550 damage with capped resists in the temp and healer/shaman resists up is not so good too). Maybe a bonus for low RR chars to earn realm abilities easier until RR5, just to mitigate the difference and tempt people to go out in RVR even if they are low ranks with very few RAs. At RR5 there is still difference (so high level players don't feel penalized) but it would not be so huge as now.

Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:33 PM by inoeth

just go play lol or dota, dont ruin daoc!

Thu 15 Oct 2020 7:21 AM by nineonezero

I am not sure about the solution, but would never pretend any mechanism that force flattening all players or penalising the most faithful ones.

Just agreeing with the spirit of the topic to try to accommodate also different style of playing.

It could might be a sort of battleground/ permanent tournament open for people below RR5, with tested event autogroup and group cap 5 (no additional rp bonuses than fz)

Thu 15 Oct 2020 7:26 PM by Warjon

The solution is what we are starting to see. A PvE game. Craft, Vend, Farm, start a new alt, change realms, repeat...

Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:45 AM by nineonezero

Warjon wrote: ↑
Thu 15 Oct 2020 7:26 PM
The solution is what we are starting to see. A PvE game. Craft, Vend, Farm, start a new alt, change realms, repeat...

Exactly, IMHO that’s because the only alternative atm is sticking afk the train and even if you get rp doing anything, pve can be more entertaining (is speaking someone playing a merc in molvik where each solo kill gives 6rp but is fun!)

What I mean usually in pve the effort-rewards correlation gives a better sense of progression and sadisfaction than just have the ass in fz

Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:43 PM by IdiamVonGawaine

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 12:19 AM
DAoC is about getting small increments of power over long period of times which greatly increases your strength the longer you play....

THAT is pretty much what DESTROYED DAoC.

Originally it was about realm vs. realm combat, and as long as you were 50, you were pretty much on even terms with everybody else in the frontier. As the game veered away from that simple concept and adopted the overpowering RA's, items, artifacts and master levels ad nauseum approach, the players began to veer away from DAoC.

Sun 18 Oct 2020 1:03 AM by Forlornhope

IdiamVonGawaine wrote: ↑
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:43 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 12:19 AM
DAoC is about getting small increments of power over long period of times which greatly increases your strength the longer you play....

THAT is pretty much what DESTROYED DAoC.

Originally it was about realm vs. realm combat, and as long as you were 50, you were pretty much on even terms with everybody else in the frontier. As the game veered away from that simple concept and adopted the overpowering RA's, items, artifacts and master levels ad nauseum approach, the players began to veer away from DAoC.

Personally, I think not having new content would loose more players. Did I like everything live did? Nah. But I think if they didn't add ANY new things the game would have died a whole hell of a lot sooner.

Sun 18 Oct 2020 10:01 AM by WiLLiL

What if players say under rr4 or rr5 could port instance like event we had few weeks ago "level a playinground". Forced groups up to 5 players. Maybe some adjustments could be done to autogroup so that is not like it was on event.

Also make it so that you can play only with your realm mates. So can have that realm pride thing aswell if it will be implemented.

Then casuals can enjoy playing on partys with their limited playing time...

Sun 18 Oct 2020 11:49 AM by Forlornhope

WiLLiL wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Oct 2020 10:01 AM
What if players say under rr4 or rr5 could port instance like event we had few weeks ago "level a playinground". Forced groups up to 5 players. Maybe some adjustments could be done to autogroup so that is not like it was on event.

Also make it so that you can play only with your realm mates. So can have that realm pride thing aswell if it will be implemented.

Then casuals can enjoy playing on partys with their limited playing time...

Anything that separates level 50 players from the frontiers is usually detrimental to the server as a whole, just my opinion though. Gaining rr here is really easy, even if you only have a few hours a week to play you can just join a bg to get the realm ranks you need to be more competitive in other forms of rvr.

Mon 19 Oct 2020 6:11 AM by Sepplord

Not saying faster RRs would solve the issue...and while it is not "hard" aka difficult, it really isn't feasible at all to switch to a new char unless you play A LOT
Reaching RR5 requires ~50hours of "sticking the zerg", RR6 ~100hours.

I dont have a solution to this age old issue, since free RRs have historically just decreased player attachment to their characters (if overdone) or not had much influence at all (if too small)

Mon 19 Oct 2020 7:51 AM by donnk

maybe a 'floating buff' to help low RR's.

If you are in frontiers and below say RR7 and the average RR of those around you is RR9 you get a buff directly increasing your primary damage if DPS or heals to the equivilent of a high RR. Go outr of ranger and it goes.

High RR isnt really a reflection of 'skill' just a function of hours played.

Mon 19 Oct 2020 10:49 AM by Sepplord

easier said than done...
imo almost impossible to do properly

RRs aren't just flat dmg/heal boosts, how do you make up for some players/groups having purge/melodies/SOS/ST/BOF/etc...
And even if possible, if you do it perfectly and everything is always fair....then you have suddenly removed progression

Mon 19 Oct 2020 2:04 PM by Bradekes

Seasons sounds fun.. I don't see any reason to adjust anything to cater to lower RRs. The only thing I would try to lower is PVE time seeings most in a season type environment would want to rvr mostly. Could also do more DS type dungeons and strive for a Diablo pve season type too for those pve nerds.

Mon 19 Oct 2020 5:35 PM by nineonezero

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Oct 2020 11:49 AM
WiLLiL wrote: ↑
Sun 18 Oct 2020 10:01 AM
What if players say under rr4 or rr5 could port instance like event we had few weeks ago "level a playinground". Forced groups up to 5 players. Maybe some adjustments could be done to autogroup so that is not like it was on event.

Also make it so that you can play only with your realm mates. So can have that realm pride thing aswell if it will be implemented.

Then casuals can enjoy playing on partys with their limited playing time...

Anything that separates level 50 players from the frontiers is usually detrimental to the server as a whole, just my opinion though. Gaining rr here is really easy, even if you only have a few hours a week to play you can just join a bg to get the realm ranks you need to be more competitive in other forms of rvr.

IMHO I would give a shot to try the event autogroup in FZ (the one from Daemon Event with class type considerations). I can see many PROs:

-people with higher rank could group with lowers rr (if any foundamental class in setup is missing), rr gap frustration could be mitigated

-you don’t have to start building your own group or be forced to play zerg bg

-there would be always real pride, everyone would be in the unique frontier etc..

-is always up to you if listing in the queue or not. One fun fact of the event was playing in disco with many unknown people from around the world (that usually interaction is very guild constrained...)

Wed 21 Oct 2020 6:46 AM by Noashakra

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:33 PM
just go play lol or dota, dont ruin daoc!

Always the same people blocking change on this server /s
It's so funny to see you complain against changes you don't like, and telling people on other posts to not behave like you when there is a change you like...

Wed 21 Oct 2020 10:40 AM by inoeth

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Oct 2020 6:46 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:33 PM
just go play lol or dota, dont ruin daoc!

Always the same people blocking change on this server /s
It's so funny to see you complain against changes you don't like, and telling people on other posts to not behave like you when there is a change you like...

not sure why you try to backstab me here.... daoc by design is not made for seasons, its all about achievements on the long run.
changing that would result in daoc to be a whole different game.
style changes on the other hand have happened to live daoc aswell several times and are just a tool to balance things and not change the whole purpose.

if you want short term games, why not play dota and stuff? these games are made for this.
also phoenix is the only working ftp sever thats left, if there were several i might give seasons a shot too. but actually i think there is very little interest to tweak this game like this over all, so a server with a season ruleset would die out quickly.... just like all the insta 50 servers

Wed 21 Oct 2020 10:53 AM by Noashakra

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Oct 2020 10:40 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Oct 2020 6:46 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:33 PM
just go play lol or dota, dont ruin daoc!

Always the same people blocking change on this server /s
It's so funny to see you complain against changes you don't like, and telling people on other posts to not behave like you when there is a change you like...

not sure why you try to backstab me here.... daoc by design is not made for seasons, its all about achievements on the long run.
changing that would result in daoc to be a whole different game.
style changes on the other hand have happened to live daoc aswell several times and are just a tool to balance things and not change the whole purpose.

if you want short term games, why not play dota and stuff? these games are made for this.
also phoenix is the only working ftp sever thats left, if there were several i might give seasons a shot too. but actually i think there is very little interest to tweak this game like this over all, so a server with a season ruleset would die out quickly.... just like all the insta 50 servers

If you want style changes, why do you play here ? It's not daoc anymore (I am just using the same arguments you are using here).
I am just pointing out that you trolled the OP (how is your reply useful), when you complained about the same kind of behavior on the style change post.
You said that change is good! So why is it bad here?

It was just a post to make you reflect on yourself

Wed 21 Oct 2020 7:08 PM by gotwqqd

Dumb idea....near the top.

Many casual players would never get to feel like they are “awesome” . Nor would they get to experience some high RR abilities that are garbage in early stages

Sun 25 Oct 2020 9:37 AM by imweasel

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Oct 2020 10:53 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Oct 2020 10:40 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 21 Oct 2020 6:46 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 14 Oct 2020 1:33 PM
just go play lol or dota, dont ruin daoc!

Always the same people blocking change on this server /s
It's so funny to see you complain against changes you don't like, and telling people on other posts to not behave like you when there is a change you like...

not sure why you try to backstab me here.... daoc by design is not made for seasons, its all about achievements on the long run.
changing that would result in daoc to be a whole different game.
style changes on the other hand have happened to live daoc aswell several times and are just a tool to balance things and not change the whole purpose.

if you want short term games, why not play dota and stuff? these games are made for this.
also phoenix is the only working ftp sever thats left, if there were several i might give seasons a shot too. but actually i think there is very little interest to tweak this game like this over all, so a server with a season ruleset would die out quickly.... just like all the insta 50 servers

If you want style changes, why do you play here ? It's not daoc anymore (I am just using the same arguments you are using here).
I am just pointing out that you trolled the OP (how is your reply useful), when you complained about the same kind of behavior on the style change post.
You said that change is good! So why is it bad here?

It was just a post to make you reflect on yourself

Change can be good as long as it's a good change.

Change just for the sake of change doesn't make it "good" and is rarely good. It's usually neither good nor bad

Seasons work in other games (lol, dota, etc.) because one doesn't have to level toons not nearly like one has to do in daoc, then level rr's, template them, farm gold, gear and feathers, craft, make crafters, buy a house/merchant.

Also those game examples change the game with equipment being different, buffing/nerfing toons to bring different metas to the game, etc.

Doing limited seasons/resets could work for battleground instances at best and who thinks that's worth the dev teams time and effort.

Sun 25 Oct 2020 5:56 PM by Noashakra

imweasel wrote: ↑
Sun 25 Oct 2020 9:37 AM
Change can be good as long as it's a good change.

Change just for the sake of change doesn't make it "good" and is rarely good. It's usually neither good nor bad

Seasons work in other games (lol, dota, etc.) because one doesn't have to level toons not nearly like one has to do in daoc, then level rr's, template them, farm gold, gear and feathers, craft, make crafters, buy a house/merchant.

Also those game examples change the game with equipment being different, buffing/nerfing toons to bring different metas to the game, etc.

Doing limited seasons/resets could work for battleground instances at best and who thinks that's worth the dev teams time and effort.

I can't agree with you more.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 6:44 PM by Sagz

I would be OK with a reset, but how about have a little fun with it. Have a timer cap on a specific player, you can play that char until it reaches XXX time played, then that Players RR gets reset to 5L0 and play time is reset to 0, the character would still be level 50. The current realm point that player earned gets transfer by a calculation into either BPS or Feathers.

Example from a current character I have
RR 6L6
Play time is 9 days 22 hours
Put a cap on Play time for a specific character to 60 Days. For a reference that would be playing roughly 4 hours a day for 365 days straight.

@60 days say you hit RR10 which is 5,974,125 realm points. The Character would be reset to 5L0 which is 513,500 realm points
5,974,125 - 513,500 = 5,460,625 / 100 = 54,626 BPS or Feathers. Then that character play time would be reset to 0

If a player has not reached RR5 in 60 days played, @ 60 days played his character played time gets reset to 0 and he loses no RPs.

Keep in mind, this is 60 days played, not 60 calendar days.

I am not sure if 60 is too high or low, was just a number i threw out there, I am sure the Devs would know average play times etc with their logs and can come up with something more exact. Find out average play time to RR5 and average to RR10 etc. Or the time played to RR12. I am sure there is a calculation that is pretty fair, except for the people that are still seeking street cred in a 20 year old game, they will of course complain. You can also, give a specific title for the RR you got to before reset, or how many RPS earned before resets, how many total resets...etc.

Don't bash it too much, give it a thought, i have been on a conference call all morning so it was a quick thought while listening to people who do not know how to end a sentence. HAHA

Sun 22 Nov 2020 11:10 PM by Taniquetil

Seasons would be interesting.

- Reset balance of power
- Less reward for mindlessly chasing RPs over all else
- Maybe give some kind of nod to high achievers historically, unique gear or something other to incentivise things
- Perhaps dont reset everything, leave characters and gear etc, makes it easier for people to come back after a break
- incentivises new character creation and tooling as in future seasons it would be on a level playing field with all others as well.

Wed 2 Dec 2020 9:32 AM by Johny Rousquille

No Need that, some say there are 11L of convenience lol

Mon 7 Dec 2020 11:32 PM by Reklewt

I think the idea of seasons is interesting, but not really something that can be implemented in DAoC. I think what needs to be changed is this idea that you can't win against a high RR group. It's hard, really hard, but you can do it. In a Mid Caster Pug with lower RR (my SM was RR4) we beat an RR11 Alb group by kiting really well. Almost every other fight that night was garbage, but that fight made the whole night worth it. Yes, some people are always going to play their high RR toons, and that is their right; they've put in the time, and so they get the extras that come with it, but they're still beatable. This idea that RR makes you invincible is just not true, and really good groups go out on brand new RR3 toons and fight 8-mans, and with their superior skill, they often win.

This is coming from a somewhat casual player, I don't run 8-man a whole lot and none of my characters are high RR (highest is 5L0 at the moment). In the end, most of DAoC is about positioning, coordination, and a little bit of mechanics. Sure, RAs can bail out these higher RR groups, but they're certainly beatable.

One thing that I think would benefit the game is a tournament system where the best groups could compete every month or every other month. This way, it would only kill the FZ zone once in a while, and it would please the hardcore players who wanna prove their skill. Everyone wins imo.

Tue 8 Dec 2020 12:14 PM by Hector

Seasons can, and should, be implemented in DAoC. The idea that having this many rr10+ chars is a good thing is ludicrous and you can see how this adversely effects the health of RvR. We've also seen time and time again (for anybody who has played freeshards dating back to the mid 2000s) that a fresh start brings the players in and the server settings retains them. Why not offer a parallel gaming experience here where we can infuse some life into the server again? My suggestion is as follows:

1. Create a parallel server (Phoenix Seasons) where you cannot access any of the characters on your main phoenix server account. Lock the main phoenix server account for a period of up to 12 months. Force the fresh start.

2. At the conclusion of the 12 months, merge the parallel Phoenix server with the current one (like how live did it when they merged classic with Ywain), effectively allowing the "fresh start" server characters and the current Phoenix server to be played interchangeably. This accomplishes several goals:

a. Allows a balance/reset of power
b. Infuses new life into the server by offering players a fresh start but with the knowledge that if they work on their toons really hard for 1 year theyll be playable in the high rank ecosystem
c. Gives everybody a new task/opportunity to play something different without the fear of being "behind"
d. Gives GMs the flexibility to make TEMPORARY settings for the "fresh start" parallel server i.e. possibly OF RAs, OF, etc. These highly desired settings could be reimplemented but simply on a temporary basis to give everybody "their fix" but knowing full well itll ultimately be merged into the current ecosystem.
e. Protects the current accounts without a true wipe, so nothing is lost

I understand the idea is complex but at the same time, the same thing over and over again gets boring and player loss is inevitable.

Thanks for listening

Tue 8 Dec 2020 12:53 PM by Taniquetil

Interesting approach Hector, but I feel as if you're basically splitting a playerbase that is already a small community in half and at that point there are other sacrifices and losses made to the server. Youd have the hardcore who would stay on their high rrtoons and then 50% move over to the new server, thus slowing action further and splitting the playerbase, dont think it would work in practice. The intent is cool and overall i agree with the sentiment but splitting a small community in to two servers I dont think is the right approach, unfortunately I dont actually have a better solution as a result of my feedback, usually like to try and have a solution to something if it's negative feedback, but this one is really tricky