Alternative Baseline Spells

Started 9 Oct 2020
by geilxr
in Suggestions
After reading the results to the survey, I’m genuinely curious of the downsides of adding the spells. If you have a downside or a reason for voting no please share.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:23 PM by DinoTriz
I voted "Yes", but if I were to vote again I'd say "No" because casters are already too powerful on this server.

If anything, melee classes need more loving.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:24 PM by skipari
sm/sorc/eld would be able to debuff its own damage type. And i somewhat believe a class should not be able to spec a value 50 debuff and a according nuke on its own imho.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:25 PM by geilxr
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:23 PM
I voted "Yes", but if I were to vote again I'd say "No" because casters are already too powerful on this server.

If anything, melee classes need more loving.

What’s your play style if you don’t mind me asking? I small/8man which is both overly saturated by tank groups because casters aren’t viable.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:35 PM by geilxr
skipari wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:24 PM
sm/sorc/eld would be able to debuff its own damage type. And i somewhat believe a class should not be able to spec a value 50 debuff and a according nuke on its own imho.

The sm debuff is in darkness but the spell line is suppression. Eld’s debuff is in void but spell line would be in mana. Sorc’s debuff is in body but the spell would be in matter.

Making it identical to chanters, rms, and cabby (main debuffers) already. Just opening up more spec lines, which people ironically voted for. If they invest in the debuff for the alternative spell, they have the variance just like now.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:35 PM by rafjord
Adding would create the opportunity to be even more creative with different tactics allowing for more fun. This cannot be a negative.

For the guy talking about believing casters shouldnt be able to debuff their own damage:
Firstly i wont waste time listing the classes that do that, as im sure you already know that.
But did you know that generally/classically the classes that DO debuff their own nukes have reduced debuff length?
Also, as main debuffer you represent the style of the group, and the other classes are there to play off of that.
The spirit/energy/matter lines will encourage variety, and i think thats the kind of thing that breeds interest and anticipation.

I also agree that it would be unwise not to invest some more creativity and resolution round some tank problems too if casters are gonna be tweaked.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:36 PM by Bradekes
skipari wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:24 PM
sm/sorc/eld would be able to debuff its own damage type. And i somewhat believe a class should not be able to spec a value 50 debuff and a according nuke on its own imho.

So cabby, wiz, RM, Ench already do this.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:41 PM by gotwqqd
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:36 PM
skipari wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:24 PM
sm/sorc/eld would be able to debuff its own damage type. And i somewhat believe a class should not be able to spec a value 50 debuff and a according nuke on its own imho.

So cabby, wiz, RM, Ench already do this.
And none of these have mezz
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:45 PM by DinoTriz
geilxr wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:25 PM
What’s your play style if you don’t mind me asking? I small/8man which is both overly saturated by tank groups because casters aren’t viable.

Do you play Midgard? Because that's true there.

Other two realms are very caster heavy.

It's almost impossible to play a melee character in Alb.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:51 PM by geilxr
rafjord wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:35 PM
Adding would create the opportunity to be even more creative with different tactics allowing for more fun. This cannot be a negative.

For the guy talking about believing casters shouldnt be able to debuff their own damage:
Firstly i wont waste time listing the classes that do that, as im sure you already know that.
But did you know that generally/classically the classes that DO debuff their own nukes have reduced debuff length?
Also, as main debuffer you represent the style of the group, and the other classes are there to play off of that.
The spirit/energy/matter lines will encourage variety, and i think thats the kind of thing that breeds interest and anticipation.

I also agree that it would be unwise not to invest some more creativity and resolution round some tank problems too if casters are gonna be tweaked.

I do agree with this. For the bottom paragraph: tanks were tweaks when: hp was increased. When debuff duration was nerfed, when side arc style was widened, and when melee damage was adjusted. All of which makes casters weaker.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:53 PM by geilxr
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:45 PM
geilxr wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:25 PM
What’s your play style if you don’t mind me asking? I small/8man which is both overly saturated by tank groups because casters aren’t viable.

Do you play Midgard? Because that's true there.

Other two realms are very caster heavy.

It's almost impossible to play a melee character in Alb.

I played hib for closer to 1.5 years of the server. Spent the last bit on all three swapping around. Even alb (I speak for NA) is running hybrids or tankers exclusively. The 5 body is decent after rank 10.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:54 PM by Ferboten
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:45 PM
geilxr wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:25 PM
What’s your play style if you don’t mind me asking? I small/8man which is both overly saturated by tank groups because casters aren’t viable.

Do you play Midgard? Because that's true there.

Other two realms are very caster heavy.

It's almost impossible to play a melee character in Alb.

Most competitive hib setup is full tanker atm, and arms/pally/reavers are common in alb groups. mercs could use some love though
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:55 PM by skipari
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:36 PM
skipari wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:24 PM
sm/sorc/eld would be able to debuff its own damage type. And i somewhat believe a class should not be able to spec a value 50 debuff and a according nuke on its own imho.

So cabby, wiz, RM, Ench already do this.

And? I've there the same opinion, but that is nothing which would change with new baseline nukes.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 7:00 PM by DinoTriz
geilxr wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:51 PM
and when melee damage was adjusted.

I'm not challenging you, I'm genuinely curious: When was melee damage buffed and by how much? I just don't remember it
Fri 9 Oct 2020 7:06 PM by geilxr
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 7:00 PM
geilxr wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:51 PM
and when melee damage was adjusted.

I'm not challenging you, I'm genuinely curious: When was melee damage buffed and by how much? I just don't remember it

I’m away from home right now and mobile forum search is awful. Will find it later when I get home. I don’t remember how long ago it was. Or even beta.
Fri 9 Oct 2020 7:35 PM by skipari
rafjord wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:35 PM
Adding would create the opportunity to be even more creative with different tactics allowing for more fun. This cannot be a negative.

For the guy talking about believing casters shouldnt be able to debuff their own damage:
Firstly i wont waste time listing the classes that do that, as im sure you already know that.
But did you know that generally/classically the classes that DO debuff their own nukes have reduced debuff length?
Also, as main debuffer you represent the style of the group, and the other classes are there to play off of that.
The spirit/energy/matter lines will encourage variety, and i think thats the kind of thing that breeds interest and anticipation.

I also agree that it would be unwise not to invest some more creativity and resolution round some tank problems too if casters are gonna be tweaked.

Well, yeah we can somewhat make all classes viable for all playstyles, but i think the spec should have somewhat an meaning.

A quick n' dirty example: I can't really see why a full supp rm for example needs also more dps, he has already a ton of utility with red nearsight/pbt. Also don't view everything from a 8v8 perspective, which should be in fact the baseline to be fair, but there is also zerg, small and solo.
To stay with the rm example, most mid groups would probably just replace the darkness/supp with a supp/rc runi then and nothing else changes. Well they can use that one now also for pve, yay.

I will cheer if those speclines somehow get viable to make it into the meta, but please with something that fits there and not just the easy damage solution.
Sat 10 Oct 2020 4:35 AM by easytoremember
I was going to vote yes until it got to adding a DD to Matter Magic
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