Why do people always say Valewalkers require a lot of skill to play?

I never understood why. Don't most classes require skill to play properly?

Is it because of their melee styles? Is it because it takes all of their toolset to become successful?

I'm in no way saying "VWs are so easy! I'm a pro!", but it has always confused me.

Wed 30 Sep 2020 12:41 PM by labra

best melee styles on vw are positionnals.
The skill invoked is the ability to quickly strafe and landing side or back stun

Wed 30 Sep 2020 12:58 PM by DinoTriz

But aren't all best melee styles positionals?

I guess people are assuming VWs will be in a solo environment. Maybe that's why they say it

Wed 30 Sep 2020 4:05 PM by keen

I never heared anyone saying that.

Wed 30 Sep 2020 5:59 PM by ughsmash

All of the best styles used to be positional s until the devs put a level 45 anytime shield style called Stop on Scouts with a no immunity timer root.

Wed 30 Sep 2020 6:10 PM by DinoTriz

ughsmash wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Sep 2020 5:59 PM
All of the best styles used to be positional s until the devs put a level 45 anytime shield style called Stop on Scouts with a no immunity timer root.

you're so mad lol

"root"

Wed 30 Sep 2020 9:15 PM by ughsmash

You ask the most basic questions on the forums and expect people to listen to you when you are talking about involved mechanics.

I'm sure if I do a search you will have a thread where you ask why the sky is blue

Wed 30 Sep 2020 9:30 PM by DinoTriz

ughsmash wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Sep 2020 9:15 PM
You ask the most basic questions on the forums and expect people to listen to you when you are talking about involved mechanics.

I'm sure if I do a search you will have a thread where you ask why the sky is blue

How pathetic and angry are you that you have to follow me to other threads?

Chill dude. It's going to be okay. You'll learn about Stop one day.

Thu 1 Oct 2020 3:51 PM by Dsai

How do people land the side style solo pve?

Thu 1 Oct 2020 4:39 PM by DinoTriz

They don't.

It's surprisingly easy to land in RVR though.

Thu 1 Oct 2020 7:18 PM by The Skies Asunder

VW isn't all that difficult. If you're decent at positional styles, especially the side ones (which on this server may as well be any time styles) then you'll be fine. They don't have any unique or complicated mechanics. Just melee styles, and a couple spells.

Bonus fact for DinoTriz though: The sky is usually blue because blue light travels in shorter wavelengths than other colors, and those wavelengths are scattered more when traveling through our atmosphere =D

Thu 1 Oct 2020 7:21 PM by DinoTriz

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Oct 2020 7:18 PM
Bonus fact for DinoTriz though: The sky is usually blue because blue light travels in shorter wavelengths than other colors, and those wavelengths are scattered more when traveling through our atmosphere =D

Thank you, you saved me from creating my next thread.

Thu 1 Oct 2020 10:07 PM by gotwqqd

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Oct 2020 7:18 PM
VW isn't all that difficult. If you're decent at positional styles, especially the side ones (which on this server may as well be any time styles) then you'll be fine. They don't have any unique or complicated mechanics. Just melee styles, and a couple spells.

Bonus fact for DinoTriz though: The sky is usually blue because blue light travels in shorter wavelengths than other colors, and those wavelengths are scattered more when traveling through our atmosphere =D

I wish someone could write up a detailed description of what is done to hit side positional styles

I can’t for life of me get them or rear styles off

Fri 2 Oct 2020 7:27 AM by Sepplord

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Oct 2020 10:07 PM
I wish someone could write up a detailed description of what is done to hit side positional styles

I can’t for life of me get them or rear styles off

are you serious?

okay, assuming you and your opponent are looking at each other. Shortly before you attack run forward and slightly to the left or right, then attack.
You don't have to be looking at your target, it just needs to be in the frontal 180°arch of your character (not to be confused with the "front-arc" for style-calculations that is a much smaller angle (90°??)) , while you are in the sidearc of the enemy

I was always really bad at "strafing positionals in" on other servers, and still are not good at it regarding backstyles here. But sidestyles really are supereasy

Fri 2 Oct 2020 7:44 AM by gotwqqd

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 7:27 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 1 Oct 2020 10:07 PM
I wish someone could write up a detailed description of what is done to hit side positional styles

I can’t for life of me get them or rear styles off

are you serious?

okay, assuming you and your opponent are looking at each other. Shortly before you attack run forward and slightly to the left or right, then attack.
You don't have to be looking at your target, it just needs to be in the frontal 180°arch of your character (not to be confused with the "front-arc" for style-calculations that is a much smaller angle (90°??)) , while you are in the sidearc of the enemy

I was always really bad at "strafing positionals in" on other servers, and still are not good at it regarding backstyles here. But sidestyles really are supereasy

When you say forward and left/right...are you going INSIDE the enemy avatar? Or astride it?

Fri 2 Oct 2020 8:09 AM by labra

when you want to land the rear style you basically go through your opponent (since there is no collision) and hit stick/rear style to quickly land it.

to land side stun you strafe mostly.

Both are quite dependent of server lag and opponent awareness

Fri 2 Oct 2020 9:50 AM by Sepplord

agree for the backstyle, not for the sidestyles
you don't need to face/stick (imo that only makes you weaker to someone backstyling you) for the sidestyles

@gotwqqd yes you can move into the other character for it to work too, but you don't have to

I would suggest you get someone to duel you and just stand still (for demonstration purposes in what relative character positions/directions sidestyling works). You will notice that you can sidestyle people that it seems your character isn't even looking at while your animations is cutting the air in front of you.

Personally with strafing it gets much harder to pull off, since you have to time the movement with the attacks, or you will miss because you are strafing in combat

PS: just had the idea that you might just test it on the trainingdummies, then you don't even need anyone else. in duel you could immediatly try out doing it to a sticked/facing target too though

Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:31 PM by Centenario

I feel like strafing while fighting is a lot easier here than it was on another freeshard.
I can be strafing the whole fight and only get 1 or 2 misses due to strafing, wheras on another freeshard I would get 100% fails due to straffing.

Strafing strats used to require skill on real anti-strafing servers, not on phoenix.

Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:39 PM by gotwqqd

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 9:50 AM
agree for the backstyle, not for the sidestyles
you don't need to face/stick (imo that only makes you weaker to someone backstyling you) for the sidestyles

@gotwqqd yes you can move into the other character for it to work too, but you don't have to

I would suggest you get someone to duel you and just stand still (for demonstration purposes in what relative character positions/directions sidestyling works). You will notice that you can sidestyle people that it seems your character isn't even looking at while your animations is cutting the air in front of you.

Personally with strafing it gets much harder to pull off, since you have to time the movement with the attacks, or you will miss because you are strafing in combat

PS: just had the idea that you might just test it on the trainingdummies, then you don't even need anyone else. in duel you could immediatly try out doing it to a sticked/facing target too though

Tried on training dummies and mobs
Never could get to work
Talking about side style

Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:43 PM by DinoTriz

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:39 PM
Tried on training dummies and mobs
Never could get to work
Talking about side style

Check this guy out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COIELFI2hUg

He uses a hook-like motion when he does his side style

Fri 2 Oct 2020 9:37 PM by gotwqqd

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:43 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:39 PM
Tried on training dummies and mobs
Never could get to work
Talking about side style

Check this guy out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COIELFI2hUg

He uses a hook-like motion when he does his side style

Guess I’m an idiot...
That video seems so choppy I can’t discern any technique from it

Sat 3 Oct 2020 7:11 AM by labra

Look closely, he "forces" his sidestyle by going through his opponent and doing a light side step.

Let's say he uses up arrow to move forward and left arrow to turn left (no strafe, turn). He then push up then left then his'side style while he steps back to get back at first position.
The issue here is that he isn't really on side of his opponent but inside him and turned. Game think he his on side so allow the style

Wed 7 Oct 2020 11:16 AM by omicidi

ughsmash wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Sep 2020 9:15 PM
You ask the most basic questions on the forums and expect people to listen to you when you are talking about involved mechanics.

I'm sure if I do a search you will have a thread where you ask why the sky is blue

He knows what he’s talking about because he has an rr4 savage and a level 50 berserker.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 11:48 AM by DinoTriz

omicidi wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 11:16 AM
ughsmash wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Sep 2020 9:15 PM
You ask the most basic questions on the forums and expect people to listen to you when you are talking about involved mechanics.

I'm sure if I do a search you will have a thread where you ask why the sky is blue

He knows what he’s talking about because he has an rr4 savage and a level 50 berserker.

Lol got another one mad

Wed 7 Oct 2020 9:44 PM by Dariussdars

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 9:37 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:43 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Oct 2020 12:39 PM
Tried on training dummies and mobs
Never could get to work
Talking about side style

Check this guy out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COIELFI2hUg

He uses a hook-like motion when he does his side style
Guess I’m an idiot...
That video seems so choppy I can’t discern any technique from it

Try watching the video at .25 speed, can see his technique a lot better.

Sat 10 Oct 2020 12:55 PM by Noashakra

Just do this to side style, you don't need to face the ennemy to land it

Sat 10 Oct 2020 2:17 PM by DinoTriz

Thank you for the beautiful artwork

Sat 10 Oct 2020 4:10 PM by gotwqqd

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Oct 2020 12:55 PM

Just do this to side style, you don't need to face the ennemy to land it

so just moving into side of enemy facing parallel to his view will land side?

Sat 10 Oct 2020 7:25 PM by The Skies Asunder

@gotwqqd Yes, as long as the target is in your frontal arc/vision cone, and you are in their side arc you can use a side style. Even if you aren't facing directly at them. Which is how you can avoid the strafing in combat miss message at times.

Sat 10 Oct 2020 8:25 PM by easytoremember

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 30 Sep 2020 12:39 PM
I never understood why. Don't most classes require skill to play properly?

Is it because of their melee styles? Is it because it takes all of their toolset to become successful?

A valewalker without stuns is is a mundane class.
A valewalker with "anytime" stuns is very versatile in being able to create distance and recover his hp, and the ablative makes him bulky too