Battleground Level 20 - Level 24 Changes

Probably tomorrow after the next reboot, we will change the map of Thidranki to Molvik. For the next few days, we will test multiple things for this map. As it is a NF map and therefore has NF towers and keep, we will test different options. The CK in Molvik has about 5 times more guards as in Thid, which will make it very hard to raid it with the lower numbers that are usually in this Battleground.

So we might lower the number of guards for the CK or we might do an autoreset of the CK ownership after a certain amount of time the keep has been owned by one realm. We will test this during the next few days. After that we will do a voting if you want to keep the old Thid map or the new Molvik map.

And no worries, the xp item mobs already moved to Molvik, so you will be able to kill them there too.

Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:20 PM by Nheryn

Thank you

Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:37 PM by FrankkCastle

Keep the map the same, change the 35-39 BG from cathal to molvik. Its a more popular bg

Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:44 PM by Ploen

Can you make the amount of guards dependend of the amount of towers the realm has? all towers + keep = all guards.. less tower = less guards?

Mon 7 Sep 2020 9:46 PM by Shamissa

Omg @Uthred about time!!!

Mon 7 Sep 2020 9:48 PM by skinner904

FrankkCastle wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:37 PM
Keep the map the same, change the 35-39 BG from cathal to molvik. Its a more popular bg

I agree with this. Id rather level up and do a lvl 39 BG toon for the Molvik map. Do a pve event to help people level new toons for the cathal to molvik switch.

Mon 7 Sep 2020 9:50 PM by Dr4ag

skinner904 wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 9:48 PM
FrankkCastle wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:37 PM
Keep the map the same, change the 35-39 BG from cathal to molvik. Its a more popular bg

I agree with this. Id rather level up and do a lvl 39 BG toon for the Molvik map. Do a pve event to help people level new toons for the cathal to molvik switch.

I agree too, put molvik map for 35-39, and keep this one for 20-24

Mon 7 Sep 2020 9:50 PM by Shamissa

@Uthred, if all goes all you also gonna keep Thid bg because some folks like it there. i myself enjoy Molvik more than any other bg in this game lol. just wondering <3

XOXO

Mon 7 Sep 2020 9:55 PM by serpus

Replace NF with Thidranki

Mon 7 Sep 2020 11:10 PM by PhilT75

Make it 35-39,, I like Thid way it is, the higher bg's here are basically dead the way they are

Mon 7 Sep 2020 11:11 PM by Forlornhope

Thank you! Super excited about this.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 1:09 AM by Cotea

FrankkCastle wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:37 PM
Keep the map the same, change the 35-39 BG from cathal to molvik. Its a more popular bg

If they bring back /rp off as I don't wanna keep leveling toons.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 1:27 AM by Shamissa

Cotea wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Sep 2020 1:09 AM
FrankkCastle wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:37 PM
Keep the map the same, change the 35-39 BG from cathal to molvik. Its a more popular bg

If they bring back /rp off as I don't wanna keep leveling toons.

And /rp off please definitely.

xoxo

Tue 8 Sep 2020 1:45 AM by Forlornhope

FrankkCastle wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:37 PM
Keep the map the same, change the 35-39 BG from cathal to molvik. Its a more popular bg

Are you saying cathal is the more populated? I have literally never seen anyone in there lol

Tue 8 Sep 2020 4:24 PM by Frostburn

Fun change so far.... the 25 theurg and necro pets running inside the keep thru doors....not so much!

Tue 8 Sep 2020 4:42 PM by CowwoC

Currently you can't kill the oil with nukes because they get resisted with 99%. That way it's impossible to kill the ck inner oil. Also the guard respawn is way too high. If there are just a few defenders in the ck it's impossible to do anything since the guards already beat you up like crazy.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 5:03 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Players: "Change Thid, we're bored!"

Uthred: "Here is a change."

Players: "Not that change! We wanted this change! You suck!"

Not gonna be much longer before he just gets tired of us all and closes the server.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 6:39 PM by Shamissa

this is a lotta of fun Uthred dont listen to Grymen

. Can you please add trebs? that would be cool

XOXO

Tue 8 Sep 2020 7:57 PM by Cruella

What could be addressed:

- Aggro range of guards is way too high.

- I dont know what hit me (a spear or a rock) but it took half my hp on fullbuffed and temped druid.
Something that can be placed on a tower. Thats the location where it happend.

- Oil has godmode right now. That friggn cheat.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 8:19 PM by Shamissa

@Cruella that was a palli from roof not sure Uthred wanna keep that as well.
But one thing would be nice to add in, would be trebs. Guards are normal for Molv bg btw.
also are there any kinda pots that makes u not lose end? even if u are a sham end inst good enough to keep it going without losing end.
everything else is just normal for Molv, but i think you want to take a look into the palis on towers roof inst really necessary.

xoxo

Tue 8 Sep 2020 9:38 PM by CowwoC

@Shamissa
Siege weapons on a tower are part of their defensiv, why would you take this away? It's already easy enough to take a tower gate down with catas only, which you can do with the palli as well - just shoot the palli down with catas.

The only thing which is nuts right now are the guard respawn on the ck and the ck inner oil, since you can't shoot it down. This means unless you have 3-4fg+(i doupt you ever get that number in bg) with much heal, you can't take the ck if there are just a handful defender inside as well - maybe just two or three would be enough to defend it(two on oil, one on treb)

Tue 8 Sep 2020 9:48 PM by Gloti

Thidranki and Molvik are the best BGs in the game - they have something of a PvP-tutorial. Thid is small and funny to learn something about RVR and Molvik is closer to the endgame with towers and a keep. It would be nice to keep both of them.

But however THANKS to give Molvik a chance it was my homeland for a long time on live.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 10:47 PM by Shamissa

i guess you right @Cowwc

is just annoying hehe
but we can handle it right? <3

xoxo

Tue 8 Sep 2020 11:00 PM by Frostburn

Albs had no issue taking a defended ck, necro pets kill the oil fine........in the keep behind the gate.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 2:14 AM by Hawkaye

Would love to see molvik as 35-39 bg and thid stay as it was.
Please add in trebs and the ability to break keep walls and flatten towers. Some of the most fun I had in Molvik live was defending and taking ck with outer walls broken gives options

Wed 9 Sep 2020 10:01 AM by Servelle

Hi,
Thidranki is/was very popular because you can have a fast action and play solo or casual group without big penality.
The Molvik map is very large, you can't play solo if not stealth or speed class, and casual groups have no chance vs optimized/guild groups.
Not talking of taking the CK witch is impossible to take atm, except for Hibs maybe who can drop shrooms on roofs and oil levels ...
For those complaining about Thid CK camping, well now we have Molvik Tower camping, what an improvement !
I guess i'm leaving BG for a while, and play more on NF rvr.
Have fun

Wed 9 Sep 2020 10:08 AM by Tommylad

Well I think it is time to review the 90 sec volley. It is way too long and just a knee jerk reaction. If as it seems, Phoenix is going to be more like Live, then reduce the timer down to 30 seconds, which is long enough. Archers have next to no shots at all when compared to live. Oh...and Minstrels DO have two instant DD while Bards and Skalds only have one....check out live.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 10:22 AM by evert

Tommylad wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Sep 2020 10:08 AM
Well I think it is time to review the 90 sec volley. It is way too long and just a knee jerk reaction. If as it seems, Phoenix is going to be more like Live, then reduce the timer down to 30 seconds, which is long enough. Archers have next to no shots at all when compared to live. Oh...and Minstrels DO have two instant DD while Bards and Skalds only have one....check out live.

Sir this is a Wendy’s

Wed 9 Sep 2020 1:15 PM by Sepplord

Tommylad wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Sep 2020 10:08 AM
Well I think it is time to review the 90 sec volley

Definitely, it'S already been days since that change....DAYS

Wed 9 Sep 2020 1:54 PM by Shamissa

Only changes that are need to done is take down those pali from ck and tower really need not need for a battleground also maybe even oil, trebs definitely need to be added, amounts of guards are just fine once those above are cut down.
Really Devs the dmg of the Pali are insane and really inst need for Molvik.
You wanna take a look into that. I Have played Molvik for years and its why they took it down in daoc live because people couldn’t take that much of dmg and started to leave the bg . And to be honest I think you are stuck with Molvik now hehe so might as well change for the best !!!!! We all bg lovers will love even more, take those palis down, add trebs , etc. <3

XOXO

Wed 9 Sep 2020 2:24 PM by Cantarella

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Sep 2020 1:54 PM
Only changes that are need to done is take down those pali from ck and tower really need not need for a battleground also maybe even oil, trebs definitely need to be added, amounts of guards are just fine once those above are cut down.
Really Devs the dmg of the Pali are insane and really inst need for Molvik.
You wanna take a look into that. I Have played Molvik for years and its why they took it down in daoc live because people couldn’t take that much of dmg and started to leave the bg . And to be honest I think you are stuck with Molvik now hehe so might as well change for the best !!!!! We all bg lovers will love even more, take those palis down, add trebs , etc. <3

XOXO

Cata and Pal seems to do massive damage to each other. You can take out pal and treb (on ck) in 4 or 5 hits from a cata. Treb takes 3 to kill other siege.

My input (since I play a charm class) would be more mobs. The mostly blue/green or oj/red mobs far from the action is annoying. If there are multiple charm classes all the pets from the tower area are gone for a while. I think the hills at least need more mobs to grab from. preferably in the 21-24 range like thid humanoids.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 5:50 PM by Solara

My Review so far:

-Oil needs a nerf.. hits way to hard (1shot) and is nearly unbreakable
-Siege to Siege damage should be redone. Tower Balista 2shots Catapults for example.
-Mobs should be redone. There are basically no mobs in the lvlrange of 22-24 that can be charmed.
-Tower Captains should propably be a bit stronger. They are basically as strong as a guard and easily solo-able.
-Slight change... but it would be lovely to put the Healers in the Portal Keeps next to the Door... so you don't have to walk back at the beginning (First world Problems)
-Dragon Fly mobs should maybe be changed to different mobs... because their hitbox is super large due to their wings. If you charm them its super hard to target something.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 6:52 PM by Shamissa

Some mobs should be removed from molvik llike the dragon fly or the other mob that look like an epic mob theres no reason to have that in molvik bg as a charm mob.
oil, trebs, palis on roof is not part of Molvik bg. Devs should reconsider the lvls 24 and 35-39 would be more likely and get thid back as folks like thid still , lots enjoy Molv but not as lvl24 doesnt make much sense imo.

XOXO

Wed 9 Sep 2020 7:00 PM by Forlornhope

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Sep 2020 6:52 PM
Some mobs should be removed from molvik llike the dragon fly or the other mob that look like an epic mob theres no reason to have that in molvik bg as a charm mob.
oil, trebs, palis on roof is not part of Molvik bg. Devs should reconsider the lvls 24 and 35-39 would be more likely and get thid back as folks like thid still , lots enjoy Molv but not as lvl24 doesnt make much sense imo.

XOXO

A lot of people liked OF emain as well, which is pretty much what the level 35-39 bg is right now. Putting molvik in an unpopulated bg level range would basically just be another Cathal Valley. That's why the put it in place of thid, it's the only populated BG here.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 7:06 PM by solitarysoule

my take...

siege-to-siege damage is insane here. toned down damage or removing some of the free siege ontop of ck (4x palintones and 1x treb is a lot of coordination to work through for the attacking force).

drastically tone down siege vs player damage. imo just remove the treb, but it was hitting level 24 temped players for 40% of their health. a bit broken for thid.

if we're keeping the treb, allow us to buy trebs at the siege merchant

can we lower the cost of siege in molvik? currently to take out all of ck siege you need to bring 10x cata (2x cata for each tower and 2x cata for the inner treb) with is 300g. this doesnt even bring up taking out any oil or any doors. most of the regular crowd in thid won't make 300g/day in the bg.

Remove archer guards from the towers. once theyre leveled up they two-three shot level 20s. then if theres one player archer defending pretty easy to rip off db's (just like the treb)

keep oil but drastically reduce the dmg (i like having oil as its a basic game mechanic all need to know) so ppl arent getting one shot

reduce the amount of guards defending ck. this is a low level bg, and imo players need to learn how to defend a keep themselves using proper strat. currently the strat in thid is use the 5x free siege equipment on the walls (that nobody can climb up), then retreat to the inner and nuke them from the roof while they deal with the dozen+ guards. this just feels like too many freebies. just killing people from the safety of the rooftop treb and hiding behind 30+ guards doesnt fit in the 20-24 bg

i love the move overall, but i think the main point is siege damage is way out of hand and having it toned down in any form would be an improvement

Wed 9 Sep 2020 7:13 PM by mallobean

Alternatively, if oil is kept as part of Molvik, how about allowing climbers to do so?

Wed 9 Sep 2020 7:30 PM by roope

I wish devs spent just 1% of their time on things that actually matter (mandatory hammer in mid, chainroot with no immunity on scouts, minstrels release recharm abuse, etc etc) instead of all these nuances that are used by like 20 people, occasionally.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 7:44 PM by Shamissa

Well towers always has archers on top front anyways but not in the back just like we have in nf that doesnt make any sense.
2 archers on top front and thats it, remove the oil, pali on roof, trebs on roof ck, and all palis around also doesnt make sense isnt a nf ck its lvl24 bg ffs.

and people just go there to have fun when they dont wanna be in NF , or tbh there are a lot of folks who loves bg , but somethings need to be fixed before i even start make new toons for that and waste my time template. Seriously @Uthred i have been waiting for that for a long time, i thought i was dreaming when i read, but pls take some consideration in the siege it really need to be fix hon thank you so much <3

XOXO

Thu 10 Sep 2020 6:42 AM by Sepplord

roope wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Sep 2020 7:30 PM
I wish devs spent just 1% of their time on things that actually matter (mandatory hammer in mid, chainroot with no immunity on scouts, minstrels release recharm abuse, etc etc) instead of all these nuances that are used by like 20 people, occasionally.

uhh they have spent more time than that on 2of3 of those things?

Thu 10 Sep 2020 5:45 PM by Forlornhope

The biggest issue with the BG right now isn't anything the devs can do anything about. It's the fgs running around when there's no where near enough action to run a fg rolling over everything. Do you want a dead BG? Because that's how you get a dead BG.

Thu 10 Sep 2020 7:40 PM by Shamissa

Theres a lot of action atm , not sure whatch you saying. Molv is design for fg to run around and not camp ck which is what albs been doing last couple days , is what u crying about? well then leave ck and come out. stop the QQ already Molvik is a great bg.

Fri 11 Sep 2020 2:19 AM by Forlornhope

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Sep 2020 7:40 PM
Theres a lot of action atm , not sure whatch you saying. Molv is design for fg to run around and not camp ck which is what albs been doing last couple days , is what u crying about? well then leave ck and come out. stop the QQ already Molvik is a great bg.

I'm talking about when fgs are running around killing the only four other people in the bg, which happens quite frequently in there. No one's crying, but when a fg of hibs/mids/albs are running around rolling over solos and not even letting the only other people who are in the bg out of the CK they're just going to kill the action for themselves as well. It's always happened on this server, even when the map was thid. But hey, if that's how people have fun rolling over solos with fgs who am I to judge? lol

Fri 11 Sep 2020 3:33 PM by Frostburn

why so few Hib players in this zone? often overpopulated with too many albs.

Very fun when its somewhat balanced......................

Fri 11 Sep 2020 3:39 PM by thirian24

Last night I was in there. We were a 4 man. We had some good fights with a mid 4man. They lost and came back with 8. So I logged.

Fri 11 Sep 2020 4:19 PM by Shamissa

Not true @Frostburn yesterday EU there was ton of hibs , maybe you missed, but there was some good 3 way fights.

i guess some of you here arent really a molvik player huh? just thid? Molvik is how is suppose to be larger than thid, i just wish they will look into the siege weapon and take it down the palis and trebs from tower and ck. Less guards in ck , and add some trebs since we cant take ck down with rams sometimes.

XOXO

Fri 11 Sep 2020 6:09 PM by Forlornhope

It really has nothing to do with the map, it always comes back to people wanting the easiest fights possible for the most gain of rps. But when two full groups of mids are running around and there are only five enemies to fight it's just a little ridiculous. All they're going to do is make people log off like Hwaat's small man did. Sure, you may have more balanced action for EU time, but the population for that time frame is probably double what it is during NA times. If those groups were to break into small mans or go solo there would actually be a point in their enemies sticking around. It's not hard to understand, if they want actually decent action in there they can't run two groups deep and mow everything down for hours on end then expect people to keep coming back. It will just eventually lead to a dead BG or one full group on one realm running around with nothing but solos trying to come out of their portal keeps and not being able to leave. Sounds pretty fun to me. I am not disagreeing with you that molvik is better suited for group play than thid Shamissa, what I and others are saying is that fgs are running around when there is absolutely no reason for them to, other than just being their own achilies heel and killing any sort of action the bg could have. It's not NF, most of the time the small population in the BG doesn't warrant full groups running around in there.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 8:08 AM by Venithrax

Please, initiate a vote.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:57 AM by tommccartney

Nearsight is an issue

Too long duration, only cure is 20 spec healing lines

Alb have caba and wiz, Matter and Earth both very popular spec lines.

Hib has Light eld (you don’t actually see many)

Mid has Supp RM .. no one plays Supp RM

Sat 12 Sep 2020 10:54 AM by CowwoC

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:57 AM
Nearsight is an issue

Too long duration, only cure is 20 spec healing lines

Alb have caba and wiz, Matter and Earth both very popular spec lines.

Hib has Light eld (you don’t actually see many)

Mid has Supp RM .. no one plays Supp RM

NS always was super strong in the BG's. Most of the time Healer do spec into heal and let people use pot's to get their specs. I also got NS'ed by all classes you mentioned, elds, runis, cabbys and wizzis - so i wont go that far, to say that nobody plays eld or runi. You are correct that you see a lot more of those two alb classes than the other two from mid and hib, but thats mostly due to the fact that alb seems to really enjoy to play the BG for what ever reason. Albs always dominated Thid in the past.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 11:04 AM by tommccartney

CowwoC wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 10:54 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:57 AM
Nearsight is an issue

Too long duration, only cure is 20 spec healing lines

Alb have caba and wiz, Matter and Earth both very popular spec lines.

Hib has Light eld (you don’t actually see many)

Mid has Supp RM .. no one plays Supp RM

NS always was super strong in the BG's. Most of the time Healer do spec into heal and let people use pot's to get their specs. I also got NS'ed by all classes you mentioned, elds, runis, cabbys and wizzis - so i wont go that far, to say that nobody plays eld or runi. You are correct that you see a lot more of those two alb classes than the other two from mid and hib, but thats mostly due to the fact that alb seems to really enjoy to play the BG for what ever reason. Albs always dominated Thid in the past.

Compare the utility of a earth wizzie and matter cab to a Supp Runie, i’d say that’s also a factor along with the alb numbers

Sat 12 Sep 2020 2:06 PM by Shamissa

Well i have to say , i play a RM and max i can get it’s green NS so why albs get blue NS? Shouldn’t be the same to all realms and clases who has the ability to cast NS , to be green or blue or whatever lvl that might be?
Wish Devs would take a closer look into Molvik before actually implementing for real because right now is really a mess.
For example the guards and archers in ck should be less.
In tower definitely archers should be less.
Here is an example how many guards and archers should have in ck.
There suppose to be only 8 archers in ck walls maybe even less.
4 guards at the ck outter gate, 3 or 4 cy. 3 guards inside as you opened the inner gate.
And 2 guards at the lords room. There’s way enough guard, right now Molvik ck/towers has same amount guards/archers as NF CK keep and inst suppose to be that way. Also no palis, or trebs on top of ck or towers in Molvik whatsoever.
And they really need to add trebs as another option.

XOXO

Sat 12 Sep 2020 3:53 PM by Cantarella

If we're going to get into how some realms have an advantage, when do albs get a healing class that can mez, demez, speed, style/cripple (pick two)? We have an extra class that can NS. oh no.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 5:42 PM by CowwoC

Shamissa wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 2:06 PM
Well i have to say , i play a RM and max i can get it’s green NS so why albs get blue NS? Shouldn’t be the same to all realms and clases who has the ability to cast NS , to be green or blue or whatever lvl that might be?
Wish Devs would take a closer look into Molvik before actually implementing for real because right now is really a mess.
For example the guards and archers in ck should be less.
In tower definitely archers should be less.
Here is an example how many guards and archers should have in ck.
There suppose to be only 8 archers in ck walls maybe even less.
4 guards at the ck outter gate, 3 or 4 cy. 3 guards inside as you opened the inner gate.
And 2 guards at the lords room. There’s way enough guard, right now Molvik ck/towers has same amount guards/archers as NF CK keep and inst suppose to be that way. Also no palis, or trebs on top of ck or towers in Molvik whatsoever.
And they really need to add trebs as another option.

XOXO

All realms would get the same NS actually, but Wizzard got the custom change - that's why.
I don't think Molvik is a mess, there is way more action than in Thid before that and way more roaming instead of camping CK or Bridge. To take a tower is a joke already, take the Ballista away and there is almost no point anymore to defend one. The Guards are weak and the lord even weaker and everything can be taken out with a cata except the lord.

The CK has slightly too many guards i agree, but the critical point here is the fast repop, rather the amount of them. If you make it too easy to take the ck by taking away their denfensiv siege and allowing trebs for attacker on the other hand then there is again almost no point defending the ck, since you can't prevent the attacker to get through the gates if you don't outnumber them.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 5:59 PM by tommccartney

Cantarella wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 3:53 PM
If we're going to get into how some realms have an advantage, when do albs get a healing class that can mez, demez, speed, style/cripple (pick two)? We have an extra class that can NS. oh no.

Yeah and you sit at CK spamming 2:00min dur NS in a lvl24 BG /yawn

Sat 12 Sep 2020 6:20 PM by Cantarella

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 5:59 PM
Cantarella wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 3:53 PM
If we're going to get into how some realms have an advantage, when do albs get a healing class that can mez, demez, speed, style/cripple (pick two)? We have an extra class that can NS. oh no.

Yeah and you sit at CK spamming 2:00min dur NS in a lvl24 BG /yawn

We must play in different BGs because no one has seriously attacked the CK in 3 days as far as I know. I agree that it needs to be more attackable,

You act like mids and hibs can't cure NS.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 6:29 PM by tommccartney

Cantarella wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 6:20 PM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 5:59 PM
Cantarella wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 3:53 PM
If we're going to get into how some realms have an advantage, when do albs get a healing class that can mez, demez, speed, style/cripple (pick two)? We have an extra class that can NS. oh no.

Yeah and you sit at CK spamming 2:00min dur NS in a lvl24 BG /yawn

We must play in different BGs because no one has seriously attacked the CK in 3 days as far as I know. I agree that it needs to be more attackable,

You act like mids and hibs can't cure NS.

Why would it get attacked when the defenders (albs) always outnumber the other realms ?

Of course they can cure NS, but when you don’t even have a cure NS in your group, or even logged in the BG, how are you suppose to compete with the NS spam from 2 popular Alb classes

Sat 12 Sep 2020 6:38 PM by Cantarella

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 6:29 PM
Cantarella wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 6:20 PM
/snip

Why would it get attacked when the defenders (albs) always outnumber the other realms ?

Of course they can cure NS, but when you don’t even have a cure NS in your group, or even logged in the BG, how are you suppose to compete with the NS spam from 2 popular Alb classes

I agree the length of NS is bs. If anything, the immunity should last 2+ minutes too. Or just shorten the active duration.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 8:46 PM by solitarysoule

Albs haven't lost CK since they got it the day this switched to Molvik. The problems have been listed just waiting for changes. Siege damage is way too much overall and way too many guards. We tried for CK 5 times this week, 0 success. 1 time the outer dropped, but that was only because we took out siege when there was 0 defenders. Later, 5-6 albs came on and were EASILY able to push our FG off with guards.

Did we not see this coming? The only realm with multiple NS classes owning CK in traditional humping fashion in a BG where maybe 2-3 people play a 20 mend spec for cure NS. IDK how any albs can defend the mechanics in molvik. The best part is the several albs who do nothing but sit on the palintones in CK *all day* hitting passersby.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:10 PM by gotwqqd

solitarysoule wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 8:46 PM
The best part is the several albs who do nothing but sit on the palintones in CK *all day* hitting passersby.

What a terrible idea to have this siege weapon.
In a game where your attacks/spells/styles are what is to be highlighted, adding a weapon that far outdamages these attacks?
Why would anyone use anything else?

Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:39 PM by solitarysoule

And now we learn that palintones and oil have like 8-10 minute respawn? So you need to take out the 6x free siege equipment several times before busting the outer door down. Which is a rather expensive venture for a bunch of level 24s.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:49 PM by Beepbop

Molvik is better than Thidranki, I don't even need to argue about that ; towers create opportunity to take fights. The multiple heights are perfect for roaming group, it prevents random soloers to add like they always did. (can be irritating sometimes)

Nah the big problem with this BG is actually casual playing. This is not very casual-friendly because you need to make a group (a balanced one), buy some catapults/rams, establish strategies (lol) or coordinate people. But this map gives you a good taste who frontiers can gives you in return. Thidranki is just old, ugly and outdated with lots of issues that can't be fixed.

There are problems in Molvik atm but you can actually fix them very easily, we will just need to play/test more I guess even if some problems are like obvious. (listed above)

But one big really problem for me it's probably the lack of wall climbing. It's very disappointing to not have access to wall climbing in such map like that : this will give more interest into really unplayed classes (all light tanks from all realms, really/sneaks) and will make the CK easier to take I reckon. I really don't know how to fix that, I don't know if you guys think the same thing than me. Maybe reducing the lequel requirements for light tanks to get access to that may be a good idea ? Also about sneaks, the real good thing would be to space out the level range ?

Instead of 20-24, I'd rather 20-26 instead because it unlocks lots of possibilities to many classes (right now I'm thinking about warden/theurgist/RM without PBT or all lvl 25 styles for melees for example).

Why not moving into a new battleground instead ? We did many times to relocate the pop from Thidranki to Murd or Caled already, never worked. Most of people were too lazy to recreate characters and stuff. I've seen some of you guys wanted to replace Cathal Valley by Molvik but let's be honest ; it takes too much times for a good majority to reach this level range.

I wish you could just delete the 20-24 level range and start battlegrounds at 25 - 29 instead, on Molvik map.

Don.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 10:48 PM by Cantarella

That was a good CK attempt just now. Got inner to ~55% (with catas from outside ugh). Guards respawned WAY too fast though.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 10:55 PM by CowwoC

Yup, those Guards spawn too fast. GG MID anyway.

Sun 13 Sep 2020 10:41 AM by donnk

agree about the guard pop time, otherwise its so much better than thid in every way.

It does need some camps of mobs though to grind on as there really arent that many.

Sun 13 Sep 2020 2:35 PM by Shamissa

@Beepbop a Molvik player knows that map is of course better than Thid map, the argument here isn’t about that.
The argument here is about too many guards/archers/palis on tower roof ,etc.
They also need to add trebs why not? Want to have a Molvik bg might as well make it as suppose to be.

And dont say ck its easy to take unless you are an alb then yes for albs every god damn thing in this server is easy but we not gonna go there here. So i had already mentioned in another post what they need to do.

XOXO

Sun 13 Sep 2020 7:47 PM by Guetzli

Really enjoying it so far. Much better than Thid.

I think towers are okay for now. Rather easy and quick to get, but that’s completely fine!
The CK definitely needs work. Much longer respawn for guards and siege equipment is necessary.

Sun 13 Sep 2020 9:38 PM by CowwoC

The siege weapons need to to be at lower costs, that's for sure. Okay, probably most of the people are not new and probably also have ton of money, but it's still a (too)big investment for what you get in return.

Sun 13 Sep 2020 9:57 PM by Shamissa

To be honest the siege in Molvik should be free LOL....or down to 5g each it doesn't worth 40g is not like we are in NF @Uthred.

xoxo

Wed 16 Sep 2020 3:10 AM by solitarysoule

Oh look, more Albs just sitting on palintones in the CK shooting at fights for 400-700 damage. There are 7 albs in molvik and 4 mids.

I thought the change was meant to bring action, if we don't see changes to CK it will continue to be dead. Players taking full opportunity of OP free siege to add fights. No way to get to them.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 4:06 PM by romulus

Hi!
Just a comment about the upcoming vote on whether Molvik remains or we get Thidranki back:

Would it make sense that the vote is restricted to only players that actually play BGs? I realize that BGs are available to everyone who levels through, but it feels to me like a community vote on BGs that is open to everyone, including players that have no interest in playing BGs, is open to trolling and abuse. The BG crowd is already pretty small, and there is a real danger that the invested voices could get drowned out by people who just want to disrupt. Just the number of condescending comments in this thread, and overheard daily in /advice is evidence that an uninvested majority will overwhelm an invested minority.

We've had votes in the past that required having a 50, or being a specific RR to participate, so could we perhaps require people to have a level 20-24 character, or be even be RR2 at this range in order to vote on the fate of BGs? Or maybe even require the voting to occur in Thid/Molvik itself?

I just want to make sure that the people voting are invested in the proposed changes and not just trolling or trying to ruin the experience that a minority of us players enjoy.
:hugs:

Wed 16 Sep 2020 7:20 PM by CowwoC

romulus wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 4:06 PM
Would it make sense that the vote is restricted to only players that actually play BGs?

I just want to make sure that the people voting are invested in the proposed changes and not just trolling or trying to ruin the experience that a minority of us players enjoy.
:hugs:

Simple answer: No.
Why? Because you are probably just one of the few people who cry in BG region chat that Molvik sucks and you want Thid back and all who like Molvik can suck your D. Am I right?

Thing is, people do enjoy Molvik more and there has never been more action in the BG since the change. There is no point to just let the Thid only crowd vote for this, because people decide on the fly to go to the BG or not. It's not your personal playground, it's for all the people, no matter if they stick to it or if it's just to get some rp before joining RvR or even just for PVE.

Is it possible that Molvik will be a little too big for just a handfull people druing some times? Yes. Is Thid any better regarding anything else? No. Thid is CK and MB camping only, there is just no room for roaming. Tower at least enable to drag the action away from the ck and people can start roaming or if they dislike roaming, they even can avoid them better now. Additional to that - it gives you a glimpse of RvR.

Molvik needs some adjustments, like making it a little bit easier to take the ck so that there will be a better flow, instead of CK camping again - but overall its superior to Thid.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 9:08 PM by romulus

Simple answer: No.
Why? Because you are probably just one of the few people who cry in BG region chat that Molvik sucks and you want Thid back and all who like Molvik can suck your D. Am I right?

I didn't express my opinion about Molvik vs. Thidranki, and my suggestion does not favor one over the other.

Thing is, people do enjoy Molvik more and there has never been more action in the BG since the change.

Nice opinion, sure hope you don't meet someone with a contrarian view. As for more action than thid, that is demonstrably false, unless you are very new to the server or to the 20-24 BG scene.

There is no point to just let the Thid only crowd vote for this, because people decide on the fly to go to the BG or not. It's not your personal playground, it's for all the people, no matter if they stick to it or if it's just to get some rp before joining RvR or even just for PVE.

I never advocated for letting Thidranki people only vote. My suggestion was to only let people vote who are invested in playing in 20-24 battlegrounds, whichever BG it happens to be. Someone who will not play BGs, regardless of whether it is Molvik or Thidranki, shouldn't vote. In past votes (for NF/OF for example), only players with a level 50 toon were allowed to vote. There is precedence for this.

Is it possible that Molvik will be a little too big for just a handfull people druing some times? Yes. Is Thid any better regarding anything else? No. Thid is CK and MB camping only, there is just no room for roaming. Tower at least enable to drag the action away from the ck and people can start roaming or if they dislike roaming, they even can avoid them better now. Additional to that - it gives you a glimpse of RvR.

Molvik needs some adjustments, like making it a little bit easier to take the ck so that there will be a better flow, instead of CK camping again - but overall its superior to Thid.

Again, all your opinions, and you are welcome to them, but please don't presume that you speak for the majority.
:hugs:

Wed 16 Sep 2020 10:57 PM by CowwoC

romulus wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 9:08 PM
Simple answer: No.
Why? Because you are probably just one of the few people who cry in BG region chat that Molvik sucks and you want Thid back and all who like Molvik can suck your D. Am I right?
I didn't express my opinion about Molvik vs. Thidranki, and my suggestion does not favor one over the other.
Thing is, people do enjoy Molvik more and there has never been more action in the BG since the change.
Nice opinion, sure hope you don't meet someone with a contrarian view. As for more action than thid, that is demonstrably false, unless you are very new to the server or to the 20-24 BG scene.
There is no point to just let the Thid only crowd vote for this, because people decide on the fly to go to the BG or not. It's not your personal playground, it's for all the people, no matter if they stick to it or if it's just to get some rp before joining RvR or even just for PVE.
I never advocated for letting Thidranki people only vote. My suggestion was to only let people vote who are invested in playing in 20-24 battlegrounds, whichever BG it happens to be. Someone who will not play BGs, regardless of whether it is Molvik or Thidranki, shouldn't vote. In past votes (for NF/OF for example), only players with a level 50 toon were allowed to vote. There is precedence for this.
Is it possible that Molvik will be a little too big for just a handfull people druing some times? Yes. Is Thid any better regarding anything else? No. Thid is CK and MB camping only, there is just no room for roaming. Tower at least enable to drag the action away from the ck and people can start roaming or if they dislike roaming, they even can avoid them better now. Additional to that - it gives you a glimpse of RvR.

Molvik needs some adjustments, like making it a little bit easier to take the ck so that there will be a better flow, instead of CK camping again - but overall its superior to Thid.
Again, all your opinions, and you are welcome to them, but please don't presume that you speak for the majority.
:hugs:

You talking about the "Thid scene" and want to make me believe you are not one of those people who are crying about the change in region chat constantly? Ok.
I played Thid a lot in the last few months and there was never such action what we had in Molvik now. Sure there are some groups roaming from time to time but the common image is CK/ MB camping - that's it. All the action circles around those two spots. How do you want to make it happen that only people who want to play the BG are voting? It's just not possible - except - you only let people vote who have a Level 24 toon. Oh wait, that would favor the Thid-Only people at this vote.

btw Ofcourse it's just my opinion but most of the people i played and talked with durig the Molvik change, do like Molvik over Thid. You don't have to believe me here, since devs obviously can read all zone chats and they will know that.

Thu 17 Sep 2020 2:07 AM by romulus

Hi again,
Funny that you acknowledge the there is a lot of crying in zone chat about how thid was better than Molvik, then in the next breath say that most people like Molvik. It's great that your circle of friends love Molvik, it really is. My circle of friends hate it. The difference between you and me (aside from our preference for which is the superior level 20-24 BG map) is that I don't assume everyone agrees with me.

To your point about the difficulties of making a fair vote, I already agreed that it would be a hard thing to adjudicate. That's why I offered suggestions about how it could be done. Feel free to propose your own when you are done being toxic.
:hugs:

Thu 17 Sep 2020 2:20 AM by CowwoC

romulus wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Sep 2020 2:07 AM
Hi again,
Funny that you acknowledge the there is a lot of crying in zone chat about how thid was better than Molvik, then in the next breath say that most people like Molvik. It's great that your circle of friends love Molvik, it really is. My circle of friends hate it. The difference between you and me (aside from our preference for which is the superior level 20-24 BG map) is that I don't assume everyone agrees with me.

To your point about the difficulties of making a fair vote, I already agreed that it would be a hard thing to adjudicate. That's why I offered suggestions about how it could be done. Feel free to propose your own when you are done being toxic.
:hugs:

Hi.
Where do i say "a lot"? I said constantly, which mostly means by one or two of the same people - otherwise i would not point out, that most people do like Molvik over Thid - and they are not my friends, just a bunch of random people you know. But hey, if you think that i'm toxic i'm sorry for that. I just try to express my voice here just as the Thid-only cry babys do in the bg region chat against the change without any real valid point except "don't take away my personal playground!!!". Why? I hate to admit it, but sometimes the loudest get heard before the many - which you can see on some changes happened to Phoenix. Thankfully not all of them tho.

So if you want to make the change back to Thid, i suggest that you propose ways to accomplish that - without being in favor of the Thid-only-posse. In my humble opinion the whole server should vote for it. Not the forum people only, not the Thid people only, all of them. Make it simple: "Do you want to keep Molvik as Level 20-24 BG? [YES] [NO] [I DON'T CARE].
:hugs:

Thu 17 Sep 2020 2:55 AM by romulus

Hi again,
I'm sorry if I unfairly conflated "a lot" with "constant". From my point-of-view they are one and the same, though it can depend on the number of voices doing the complaining. Fair point. However, I'd like to point out that your anecdotal evidence for the change to Molvik is coming from the people playing Molvik right now. People that do not like Molvik are probably not playing in Molvik and are thereby not voicing an opinion where you are likely to hear it. As a result, you are probably falling victim to survivorship bias.

I hope I've made my point clear that, while I do have my own biases, and I definitely have a favored outcome of any vote regarding the fate of Thidranki-versus-Molvik, I do not want the skew the vote in either direction. In fact, if the majority of level 20-24 players want Molvik, then it should win and it should become the lowbie BG. If the majority of level 20-24 players want Thidranki, then it should win. My original suggestion is only that people that have a vested interest in the outcome are the ones whose vote should count. True, the indifferent might just abstain from voting. That would be the perfect outcome. The problem is that there is a percentage of players that look down on the early BGs, that feel they aren't real RvR, that BGs are the wrong way to play DAOC. Some of these people will vote for the worst possible outcome (without presupposing what that is). If Molvik is truly superior, and it appears destined to win, they could vote against it just to prevent the majority from playing there. It could be the other way, too, that Thidranki appears the most favorable, and the trolls will vote for Molvik just to throw the result to a state that disfavors lowbie BGs.

I'm sorry I called you toxic; that was an ad-hominem and uncalled for, and I'm sorry. I don't want to pick fights. It's obvious you have a passionate opinion about which BG is better, and your vote should count. All the people that play in the BGs and enjoy Thid or Molvik should get a vote. I believe that! I just don't want trolls coming in and voting straight-ticket that throws the result against what the majority of BG players want, whatever it is.

So I am offering suggestions, for how the voting can be fairer, and not as influenced by people who only want to spoil our BG experience, whether you like Thid or Molvik. No one wants a close decision decided by indifferent voters, right?

To your final point, yes I would happily vote for a compromise, one that allows both Thid and Molvik to exist. This suggestion has been made and so I didn't advocate for it, though I think it would be the best possible outcome for people that love Thid and Molvik. If you have any suggestions for making the vote fairer, or possibly having Thid and Molvik side-by-side or somesuch, I would be happy to hear them, and I'm sure the devs would too.
:hugs:

Thu 17 Sep 2020 3:05 AM by CowwoC

Here, you get my upvote for this nice read.❤️

Thu 17 Sep 2020 12:57 PM by DarkarDruid

After playing this version of Molv as the temporary Thid replacement for a 20-24 BG, I won't go on about the common themes posted by others above regarding the balancing that needs to be done with CK guard spawns, siege equipment balance, Nearsight etc.

But, I think a very simple solution, would be the just keep Thid the 20-24 BG and replace Cathal Valley with Molvik. That would help IMO with the damage scaling (like on live) etc. Also, it would enable wall-climbers to get into the CK and contribute to help mitigate oil etc. Also, it would enable players to get access to more toys that would help balance things a bit more (NS cure etc because of more spec points etc).

Cathal Valley is a dead wasteland and even on live is the RH step-child of BGs - not point in it really.

Just my $00.02

Thu 17 Sep 2020 2:12 PM by Shamissa

Like i have said already in a lost post before Molvik need a few changes to be actually called Molvik bg. We are playing thid in a lvl35-39 bg, to me it doesnt make sense at all. I got really excited when they implemented the bg but then when i read the whole thing about lvls i was like that doesn’t make much sense. Why wipe thid, some folks still like thid even if not its part of the game shouldn’t wipe off like that is like missing a puzzle. Guards, siege, all that need to change . Palis hit for insane dmg on the 24 bg, yes i am not call that Molvik anymore.
Palis need to be removed from top of each tower in ck and the towers itself. It’s not like we are playing NF ffs that dmg is insane. Siege should be free or least 5g in a battleground. Also they need to add trebs as an option since ck is so god damn hard to take sometimes with that amount of guards, or just add because its part of Molvik. Also the towers are placed in wrong side, Guardtower should be a MT, Watchover AT and OP hib tower they have that all messed up instead AT is Guardtower LOL.
Some people was asking does it make any difference? I said it does if it is Molvik, if is not then fuck it I probably wont be back until they fix all that crap. And i lvled like 3 toons, created a guild for Molv but well it is what it is to NF back i go.

Xoxo

Thu 17 Sep 2020 5:19 PM by solitarysoule

romulus wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Sep 2020 2:55 AM
if the majority of level 20-24 players want Molvik, then it should win and it should become the lowbie BG. If the majority of level 20-24 players want Thidranki, then it should win.

IMO this is flawed logic.

I've played Thid for over a year, on all three realms (hib less than mid/alb). I've been playing mid since molvik came out.

Thidranki was a very flawed system. You advocate that your friends (old thid players) want thid back, and that the BG population should be the only vote. In the thidranki map, albs would overrun the bg almost 20 hours a day, and probably accounting for half of the normal thid population, if not 60%. camping ck and mid bridge is all these players want to do, and that is their opinion to do so (move to the next bg up imo if you still want that). mid has much less representation on the subject, and even moreso on hib. So calling for a community vote limited to the *already invested* thid players (60% albs), they alone can swing the vote. that action in thid is very stale for hib, and during off hours pretty bad for mid.

with molvik, there is room to breathe. if you want to get fights away from the 15 albs camping ck against the wind, you can stir up action around the towers, and there is enough LOS breaks to fight against larger numbers. also with molvik, albs have *an equal distance to run to ck* which im sure is not as convenient for the *majority* of *invested* thidranki players.

the majority doesn't always know what's best (neither does the minority, the infamous counter arguement), sometimes we just need to go with the most logical. molvik makes more sense for the population. during off hours its not hard to find the action. during primetime, theres a lot more room for fights, and sideswipes, and more hot spots to create action that isn't directly in view of the campzerg at ck (valleys, hills, watersides, pk's). if the ck/siege damage gets toned down, it would be even more fun.

for all crying about thid -- go play it. caledonia still exists. cathal valley is kept at the 35-39 for the folks that like classic, but the real reason a 35-39 BG isn't taking off here is because there is no RP off. the casuals dont want to keep leveling to 39 and temping at that level.

Fri 18 Sep 2020 11:49 AM by byron

Hi guys,
I'll copy my message that I wrote in RvR section. First of this, I would say that I love Molvik map more than Thid map but the fun in Daoc is to have someone to fight, the map is secondary. So I had my holidays in September and when I was back, last Saturday, I tried the new BG with Molvik: it was very fun, a lot of people from all the three realms, just the time to end a fight and another one were beginning.... very fun ! Then, from the day after, something changed : the Mid numbers (I play Mid) are still very high (in european prime time we are always between 15 to 30 people logged) but Albs and Hibs number are lowering every day (Hibs were very low also with Thid map honestly). So you can have the best map but without enemies there is no fun... and I'm one that found the Thid play style quite ripetitive : albs stays at CK and you need to be on Mid bridge to have some action. But at least we knew there were at least some albs to fight.

So this is the message I've already wrote with some suggestions :

Molvik map was a good idea but unluckly in this week I see that the result is quite wrost than Thidranki :

- A lot of Mids and very few Albs and Hibs. Hibs were very few also in Thid but Albs , even if they have all the classes to do great groups and roam, prefer do stay at CK and attack only if enemies go to them. With Molvik this "tactic" is not more possible so also Albs now are very very few in the BG. I suspect that the map change caused this so I don't know if revert the map back will restore some population balance in the BG.
- Ministrel mezz : something is wrong here, it lasts very long , more than the nominal value also with 13% resist in the char template.
- Siege weapons: It would suggest to lower the costs in the BG. In the BG there are many chars without so much money and, since sieging is very used in the BG (maybe it's the only thing to do when you have few enemies to fight), it costs a lot of money. For example 30g for a catapult while you earn few silvers in the BG killing guard and enemies. Also repair the equipment to to the smith costs quite a lot, it would be nice to have the repair costs based also on the char level or maybe just a special price only for BG untill lvl 24.

The first point is more important: I play Mid and logging without enemies is quite boring , it would be nice to find a way to have all the 3 realms active in the BG.

Cheers,
Byrn/Byrax/Byrox/Byraz

Sat 19 Sep 2020 1:24 AM by Forlornhope

DarkarDruid wrote: ↑
Thu 17 Sep 2020 12:57 PM
After playing this version of Molv as the temporary Thid replacement for a 20-24 BG, I won't go on about the common themes posted by others above regarding the balancing that needs to be done with CK guard spawns, siege equipment balance, Nearsight etc.

But, I think a very simple solution, would be the just keep Thid the 20-24 BG and replace Cathal Valley with Molvik. That would help IMO with the damage scaling (like on live) etc. Also, it would enable wall-climbers to get into the CK and contribute to help mitigate oil etc. Also, it would enable players to get access to more toys that would help balance things a bit more (NS cure etc because of more spec points etc).

Cathal Valley is a dead wasteland and even on live is the RH step-child of BGs - not point in it really.

Just my $00.02

Because the problem with the level 35-39 level bg is that it takes too long to keep remaking toons to throw in there since there's no rp off. So, if you throw molvik in that level slot it will again just be a dead bg. A lot of people liked OF emain map, which is basically what cathal valley's map is and it's still dead.

Sat 19 Sep 2020 10:18 AM by nineonezero

Don’t have time to go through all the posts, but imho Molvik much better than Thid and yes maybe CK quite too hard to take, but tower experience is fun.

Subedei (merc)

Wed 7 Oct 2020 9:08 AM by Blacksteff

Molvik is dead

Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:15 AM by Muschen

Molvik is indeed very dead after the change, i log in from time to time and if im lucky there is a templated paladin or merc running around for a few minutes.
CK always belongs to Alb, dont know if it has changed realm since the release but my guess is no. Towers are too expensive to take alone with the siege price so its hard to create action alone.

We need to bring old thid back.

/Musch