Reward everyone for fair fight

If an 8 man from your realm successful gets a fair fight your realmmates get some bonuses for that zone. Maybe for each win a 1% rp bonus up to max 5% for a set amount of time, but no groups in the gvg list will get the RP bonus. ?

What do I get for NOT helping on a fight. Sounds dumb I shouldn’t help my realm mates

Fri 4 Sep 2020 5:23 PM by Svekt

The fact that you have to ask this question makes me sad. This used to be a 3 realm game and now its just set 8 vs 8 and if you add you're dead. I understand fully the glory of a clean fight, but now people just expect them everywhere. You want them on the docks, the bridge, in the task zone, on EV, by relic gates. We've literally ostracized the entire roaming small man community. It got to a point that I just fight every 8 that chases my 4-5 man. Why is it that we are not allowed to jam your fights in an 8v8 but if we are having a 5v5 and 8 can come in and just obliterate us but still demand that we leave their fights alone where ever they are.

We are at a point where we generally hard assist and take one out with us when the 8 jumps us, and we make it a point to intentionally jam everything we see. So tired of realm mate watch other realm mates die and then clap at the enemy. This isn't even daoc at its finest. Daoc at its finest is you being able to take a group + adds, something only a handful of groups on this sever are capable of doing. /cheer Ferboten and his crew for this.

What used to make a clean 8v8 so special was that it was so hard to find or get. Now its expected with a level of entitlement.

I don't care if both sides pull off and then focus my group, I am going to jam everything I see. I've won my share of 8v8 and don't need a jam to win, but I am also not going to just PASS on RPS when they never PASS on our Small Man RPS.

I don't want more RPs for respecting an 8v8.... what I want is to be able to play DAOC the way it was intended.

Fri 4 Sep 2020 5:49 PM by ughsmash

Svekt wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Sep 2020 5:23 PM
The fact that you have to ask this question makes me sad. This used to be a 3 realm game and now its just set 8 vs 8 and if you add you're dead. I understand fully the glory of a clean fight, but now people just expect them everywhere. You want them on the docks, the bridge, in the task zone, on EV, by relic gates. We've literally ostracized the entire roaming small man community. It got to a point that I just fight every 8 that chases my 4-5 man. Why is it that we are not allowed to jam your fights in an 8v8 but if we are having a 5v5 and 8 can come in and just obliterate us but still demand that we leave their fights alone where ever they are.

We are at a point where we generally hard assist and take one out with us when the 8 jumps us, and we make it a point to intentionally jam everything we see. So tired of realm mate watch other realm mates die and then clap at the enemy. This isn't even daoc at its finest. Daoc at its finest is you being able to take a group + adds, something only a handful of groups on this sever are capable of doing. /cheer Ferboten and his crew for this.

What used to make a clean 8v8 so special was that it was so hard to find or get. Now its expected with a level of entitlement.

I don't care if both sides pull off and then focus my group, I am going to jam everything I see. I've won my share of 8v8 and don't need a jam to win, but I am also not going to just PASS on RPS when they never PASS on our Small Man RPS.

I don't want more RPs for respecting an 8v8.... what I want is to be able to play DAOC the way it was intended.

I couldn't agree with you more.

It is fun to get in an equal numbers fight, but in an RvR zone it should not be expected. People should just be happy when it does happen. When I solo I get run over by small mans, 8 mans, added by others, run over by the zerg. At the end of the day if you are running with x number of players expect you will be outnumbered and smashed. All the 8 mans that troll around bridges killing solos really shouldn't complain when people add their fights.

As much as 8 mans complain about adding they sure don't have a problem with running over solos and giving people an 8 v 1

Sat 5 Sep 2020 3:07 AM by Nephamael

If you want to help Phoenix stay alive longterm you have to support all major playstyles.

It is in everyone's interest that the Phoenix Staff makes ALL content longterm enjoyable.

That includes

zerg, 8man, small, solo, pve

- Stop asking to eliminate content, if you eliminate content people leave the server and after you eliminated all content the server is dead.-

Sat 5 Sep 2020 4:49 AM by Arla

The 8 man rules of the community have vastly diminished my desire to play the game. I have been a part of that community off and on for almost 20 years, but the increasingly assinine nature of their demands makes the game zero fun anymore for me. I don't remember 8's travelling through high traffic areas expecting a clean fight. I have noticed a steady population decline over time. I would not wish the devs role on anybody, kudos to them for taking the time to work on a thankless project, much respect to you. I do think the "cater to how everyone plays" thing is all fine and good on paper, but the reality of how it affects gameplay is quite honestly not very fun unless you are A) In a high realm rank 8 man, or B) On an overtuned stealther class running multiples. Neither of those options exist for me, nor do I desire either. And I'm out, as were many before me. Don't worry, I won't let the door hit me where the good Lord split me ;-P

Sat 5 Sep 2020 6:32 AM by gotwqqd

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Sep 2020 3:07 AM
If you want to help Phoenix stay alive longterm you have to support all major playstyles.

It is in everyone's interest that the Phoenix Staff makes ALL content longterm enjoyable.

That includes

zerg, 8man, small, solo, pve

- Stop asking to eliminate content, if you eliminate content people leave the server and after you eliminated all content the server is dead.-

The game inherently supports all those play styles. No special gadgetry needed.

They all simply have to live with the fact it’s not 100% of the time and take what they can get. And staying away or going to certain areas and greatly increase their chance for what they want

Sat 5 Sep 2020 3:22 PM by Svekt

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Sep 2020 6:32 AM
Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Sep 2020 3:07 AM
If you want to help Phoenix stay alive longterm you have to support all major playstyles.

It is in everyone's interest that the Phoenix Staff makes ALL content longterm enjoyable.

That includes

zerg, 8man, small, solo, pve

- Stop asking to eliminate content, if you eliminate content people leave the server and after you eliminated all content the server is dead.-
The game inherently supports all those play styles. No special gadgetry needed.

They all simply have to live with the fact it’s not 100% of the time and take what they can get. And staying away or going to certain areas and greatly increase their chance for what they want

The 8v8s community of self policing and pulling off all adds and counter hitting the jam group has basically sent the message that you either 8v8 or get run over. This game just became dark age of fair fights ...

Sat 5 Sep 2020 5:12 PM by Nephamael

The 8v8s community of self policing and pulling off all adds and counter hitting the jam group has basically sent the message that you either 8v8 or get run over. This game just became dark age of fair fights ...

the opposite is the case. Most 8men left the server for 2 reasons

1) getting added/zerged/jammed 2 much

2) the ban on account sharing

Since the 8man numbers are so low it is harder to find enemy 8men away from the task zones.
Ofc there is 8men that prefer easy prey inside the task zones over 8v8, most of those are not on the /gvg list tho and don't respect any fair fights.

Sat 5 Sep 2020 5:16 PM by Nephamael

staying away or going to certain areas and greatly increase their chance for what they want

absolutely!

If we all support 8v8 well and it grows back to a healthy number of groups that go for 8v8 i am sure the ammount of interference with other playstyles by 8men will go down again.

Even tho - there is also many 8men that don't play gvg and don't respect fair fights, most of those are full pugs so they are 2 weak as a team to fight real 8men, that is why they hunt smaller numbers or other random grps in the main action zones.

Sat 5 Sep 2020 5:34 PM by Svekt

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Sep 2020 5:16 PM
staying away or going to certain areas and greatly increase their chance for what they want

absolutely!

If we all support 8v8 well and it grows back to a healthy number of groups that go for 8v8 i am sure the ammount of interference with other playstyles by 8men will go down again.

Even tho - there is also many 8men that don't play gvg and don't respect fair fights, most of those are full pugs so they are 2 weak as a team to fight real 8men, that is why they hunt smaller numbers or other random grps in the main action zones.

Our time slot sees about 8 groups on GVG or at least last night it did. It was everywhere and they were yelling about fair fights next to keep docks in a task zone. You also have players leaving that don’t 8v8 but that doesn’t seem to concern you. Essentially what you’re saying is it all revolves around 8 mans?

I disagree and all play styles should be accepted, even stealther groups which I hate. The 8 man community is policing and controlling the server end of story.

Sat 5 Sep 2020 7:52 PM by hyshash

another whine threat by a solo/smallman (it seems like 90% of all posts in this forum are made by solo/small man and its allways just crying and bitching about nerv class X (scout!!!!!) or playstyle Y) bitching about 8vs8 while the 8vs8 com lately seems to consist of a handfull of grps and its declining further every week
you guys got your 1on1 zone wich got so bad it had to be deleted/nerved within days ... so much for the solo peeps
maybe you guys should stop thinking every single 8man romaing is a 8vs8 grp ... most of these are just the regluar pug trying to get any rps (chasing you for eternity) wich would add what ever they see fit

Sun 6 Sep 2020 1:16 PM by chuckycem

Svekt wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Sep 2020 5:23 PM
The fact that you have to ask this question makes me sad. This used to be a 3 realm game and now its just set 8 vs 8 and if you add you're dead. I understand fully the glory of a clean fight, but now people just expect them everywhere. You want them on the docks, the bridge, in the task zone, on EV, by relic gates. We've literally ostracized the entire roaming small man community. It got to a point that I just fight every 8 that chases my 4-5 man. Why is it that we are not allowed to jam your fights in an 8v8 but if we are having a 5v5 and 8 can come in and just obliterate us but still demand that we leave their fights alone where ever they are.

We are at a point where we generally hard assist and take one out with us when the 8 jumps us, and we make it a point to intentionally jam everything we see. So tired of realm mate watch other realm mates die and then clap at the enemy. This isn't even daoc at its finest. Daoc at its finest is you being able to take a group + adds, something only a handful of groups on this sever are capable of doing. /cheer Ferboten and his crew for this.

What used to make a clean 8v8 so special was that it was so hard to find or get. Now its expected with a level of entitlement.

I don't care if both sides pull off and then focus my group, I am going to jam everything I see. I've won my share of 8v8 and don't need a jam to win, but I am also not going to just PASS on RPS when they never PASS on our Small Man RPS.

I don't want more RPs for respecting an 8v8.... what I want is to be able to play DAOC the way it was intended.

Nothing more has to be said imo. İts not daoc when your realmmates watch you get killed. There is no fairness in realm vs realm. Thats actually why there are 3 realms.
İ dont care if the elitist 8 man groups are happy or not. They are so out of their way. İn the past we were cutting ports and helping out zergs as 8 man. Now they chase everyone to hell when they see a solo, duo or sm, and expect fair fights.
İ am also against solo zones. İts rvr, you either find good fights or die trying. Bad idea to separate players.

Sun 6 Sep 2020 2:13 PM by Cadebrennus

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here too:

When a group has fairfight toggled they should lose RPs for killing anyone not in a full group. That will enforce the style of play that they pretend to hold to.

Sun 6 Sep 2020 5:36 PM by Nephamael

Essentially what you’re saying is it all revolves around 8 mans?

Most players are zerging. What i said and will always say again is Phoenix has to support ALL playstyles to keep the server healthy.

That includes QOL patches to fix the natural flaws of old DaoC.

The Phoenix staff did an amazing job at fixing most of the flaws of classic DaoC - foremost xping speed (careful with down tuning that too much and where is the huge new player bonuses announced?, 25% is nothing), but also zerg, 8v8, pve content, easy access to RvR with the ROG system and teleport keeps, catch up mechanics with the /task system and RP bonuses for lower ranks.

If you want to support Phoenix and the Phoenix community, then ask for more QOL for ALL playstyles instead of punishing one playstyle for being harmful to your personal gaming experience. In the long run all playstyles suffer if one gets harmed.

Sun 6 Sep 2020 6:34 PM by Bobbahunter

My main point of the thread was to point out this. Why should I as a solo Hunter sit back and watch a group of mids kill another group and just sit back and let free RPs go. I can easily snipe a few shots in before anyone really knows. I can also demezz peeps if I see both enemy realms fighting. I can sit and wait for death blows. I don’t give a rats ass about 8v8. But if you want me to not help I need something. You get extra RPs for doing nothing and I get NOTHING!

Mon 7 Sep 2020 12:20 AM by Nephamael

My main point of the thread was to point out this. Why should I as a solo Hunter sit back and watch a group of mids kill another group and just sit back and let free RPs go. I can easily snipe a few shots in before anyone really knows. I can also demezz peeps if I see both enemy realms fighting. I can sit and wait for death blows. I don’t give a rats ass about 8v8. But if you want me to not help I need something. You get extra RPs for doing nothing and I get NOTHING!

Currently Phoenix has only one playstyle with close to 0 custom quality improvements. That is solo.

However that does not have to stay that way. I am sure sooner or later the Phoenix staff will have a look at the countless great suggestions the community has made for improving solo and smallmen QOL and implement some of them that are not 2 much work and sound like longterm viable gameplay enjoyment increase can be accomplished.

Mon 7 Sep 2020 1:31 AM by thirian24

Too much fucking crying on this forum.

Mon 7 Sep 2020 6:25 AM by Noashakra

hyshash wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Sep 2020 7:52 PM
another whine threat by a solo/smallman (it seems like 90% of all posts in this forum are made by solo/small man and its allways just crying and bitching about nerv class X (scout!!!!!) or playstyle Y) bitching about 8vs8 while the 8vs8 com lately seems to consist of a handfull of grps and its declining further every week
you guys got your 1on1 zone wich got so bad it had to be deleted/nerved within days ... so much for the solo peeps
maybe you guys should stop thinking every single 8man romaing is a 8vs8 grp ... most of these are just the regluar pug trying to get any rps (chasing you for eternity) wich would add what ever they see fit

95% of the people left the solo zone after a few days.
People who abused it for RP farming were not part of the "solo community" and 10 people max were inside the zone at the end in prime time.

The gvg system is ridiculous when you see a 8man people yelling on a flag when they get added but the whole realm that was there...
If you trully wanted 8vs8 cleanfights, you would go to a zone of low traffic. But the gvg doesn't do that, because they could not farm easy rps.

The problem I have with this community, it's the "You should respec my fights, otherwise pay the consequences, but we will zerg you 100% of the time if we find you solo on a bridge. The worst.

Mon 7 Sep 2020 3:45 PM by Svekt

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Sep 2020 6:25 AM
hyshash wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Sep 2020 7:52 PM
another whine threat by a solo/smallman (it seems like 90% of all posts in this forum are made by solo/small man and its allways just crying and bitching about nerv class X (scout!!!!!) or playstyle Y) bitching about 8vs8 while the 8vs8 com lately seems to consist of a handfull of grps and its declining further every week
you guys got your 1on1 zone wich got so bad it had to be deleted/nerved within days ... so much for the solo peeps
maybe you guys should stop thinking every single 8man romaing is a 8vs8 grp ... most of these are just the regluar pug trying to get any rps (chasing you for eternity) wich would add what ever they see fit

95% of the people left the solo zone after a few days.
People who abused it for RP farming were not part of the "solo community" and 10 people max were inside the zone at the end in prime time.

The gvg system is ridiculous when you see a 8man people yelling on a flag when they get added but the whole realm that was there...
If you trully wanted 8vs8 cleanfights, you would go to a zone of low traffic. But the gvg doesn't do that, because they could not farm easy rps.

The problem I have with this community, it's the "You should respec my fights, otherwise pay the consequences, but we will zerg you 100% of the time if we find you solo on a bridge. The worst.

Yes, respect me. but don’t expect me to respect you type stuff. Already lost 2 players over this nonsense just from my team because it’s not daoc anymore. Dark age of fair fights....

Mon 7 Sep 2020 8:30 PM by Nephamael

The problem I have with this community, it's the "You should respec my fights, otherwise pay the consequences, but we will zerg you 100% of the time if we find you solo on a bridge. The worst.

I remember early on the server the majority of 8men respected solos and did neither zerg nor add them.

Nowadays sadly only 1-3 8men leave me alone or don't add my fights on an average day of RvR. - I am very happy tho to see more and more smallmen not adding or zerging me down lately.

The reality might be that nowadays more 8men are not /GvG groups and have no intention for any kind of fairplay actually.

It is therefore very important to not blame the real /GvG groups for the behavior of the non-/gvg-8men.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 6:43 AM by Sepplord

when groups are fighting, and get added, a /y is thrown in chat and the groups stop fighting each other....then i assume those are "fairfighters"
the 8mans that just play the RvR-roam and add and get added, don't complain in chat about being added

The ridicolous hypocrisy of some GvG groups didn't randomly manifest in peoples mind by mistake. Complaining about adds between Bledmeer and Bledmeer docks (probably also at DC and Beno, though my personal experiences mainly happened in Odins) and watching people get farmed by enemyrealms while applauding and cheering for them, was what further increased the gap between the casual population and the elite 8men.

Tue 8 Sep 2020 1:01 PM by LolaEbola

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Sep 2020 6:43 AM
when groups are fighting, and get added, a /y is thrown in chat and the groups stop fighting each other....then i assume those are "fairfighters"
the 8mans that just play the RvR-roam and add and get added, don't complain in chat about being added

The ridicolous hypocrisy of some GvG groups didn't randomly manifest in peoples mind by mistake. Complaining about adds between Bledmeer and Bledmeer docks (probably also at DC and Beno, though my personal experiences mainly happened in Odins) and watching people get farmed by enemyrealms while applauding and cheering for them, was what further increased the gap between the casual population and the elite 8men.

This happens in the solo world a lot as well. Just the other day, I jumped in to help a skald (I’m pretty sure they were about to lose that fight) vs a champion in the task zone. The skald backed off and gave the hib a /cheer and watched. Thankfully, I didn’t die.

Now, I’m not the type to send nasty pms or anything (although these people often do), but it does feel pretty lame if I’m being honest to have a realmmate cheering on your death.

Wed 9 Sep 2020 1:06 PM by asnusia

my idea is more gold for solo kill!

if you play in solo you have to use a lots of pots and charges and 90% of the fights you get added and die before you can do a 1vs1.

imho it's correct a higher reward in gold for solo killing to restore some resources you lose the x times you die added by a full party

Sat 12 Sep 2020 1:57 AM by Nephamael

This happens in the solo world a lot as well. Just the other day, I jumped in to help a skald (I’m pretty sure they were about to lose that fight) vs a champion in the task zone. The skald backed off and gave the hib a /cheer and watched. Thankfully, I didn’t die.

Now, I’m not the type to send nasty pms or anything (although these people often do), but it does feel pretty lame if I’m being honest to have a realmmate cheering on your death.

Phoenix allows fair play and unfair play - what we have to try to accomplish is to respect each others playstyle, if it is different.

I personally had a lot of positive experiences simply friendly asking adders to not add my fights in the future anymore. Most accepted it and most accepted it without insults coming my way.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 2:27 AM by gotwqqd

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 1:57 AM
This happens in the solo world a lot as well. Just the other day, I jumped in to help a skald (I’m pretty sure they were about to lose that fight) vs a champion in the task zone. The skald backed off and gave the hib a /cheer and watched. Thankfully, I didn’t die.

Now, I’m not the type to send nasty pms or anything (although these people often do), but it does feel pretty lame if I’m being honest to have a realmmate cheering on your death.

Phoenix allows fair play and unfair play - what we have to try to accomplish is to respect each others playstyle, if it is different.

I personally had a lot of positive experiences simply friendly asking adders to not add my fights in the future anymore. Most accepted it and most accepted it without insults coming my way.

Respect each other’s playstyle?
In a game that is essentially war vs different factions.
And a playstyle is some setup battle that cannot be intruded on? Where the result is abandonment

Most players have no issue and realize it’s part of the game to have a realm mate, wait for it.....help against enemies.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 7:44 PM by Helwyr

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 1:57 AM
This happens in the solo world a lot as well. Just the other day, I jumped in to help a skald (I’m pretty sure they were about to lose that fight) vs a champion in the task zone. The skald backed off and gave the hib a /cheer and watched. Thankfully, I didn’t die.

Now, I’m not the type to send nasty pms or anything (although these people often do), but it does feel pretty lame if I’m being honest to have a realmmate cheering on your death.

Phoenix allows fair play and unfair play - what we have to try to accomplish is to respect each others playstyle, if it is different.

I personally had a lot of positive experiences simply friendly asking adders to not add my fights in the future anymore. Most accepted it and most accepted it without insults coming my way.

There's no such thing as "fair play" in DaoC, the game is simply not designed for that. All there is are a bunch of people seeking the perception of fair play while simultaneously trying to get nearly every advantage they can to "win". Seriously, if it was remotely fair play people wanted, you'd be asking for instanced PvP arenas, where anyone can play any class, numbers are equal and so is realm rank and equipment... oh and things like relics have no impact. Basically a game that has little in common with the actual DAoC game.

Sun 13 Sep 2020 2:50 AM by Nephamael

Respect each other’s playstyle?
In a game that is essentially war vs different factions.
And a playstyle is some setup battle that cannot be intruded on? Where the result is abandonment

Most players have no issue and realize it’s part of the game to have a realm mate, wait for it.....help against enemies.

If DaoC was a real total, fatalistic war to extinction it would suit everyone to try and defeat the enemy realm until noone is left in it.

But DaoC is a game, and a game only stays alive if the players enjoy it.

If you want extinct playstyles or even realms then try to extinct the fun of the players.

Sun 13 Sep 2020 4:42 PM by Lokkjim

asnusia wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Sep 2020 1:06 PM
my idea is more gold for solo kill!

if you play in solo you have to use a lots of pots and charges and 90% of the fights you get added and die before you can do a 1vs1.

imho it's correct a higher reward in gold for solo killing to restore some resources you lose the x times you die added by a full party

While I'm not against the idea, I'm actually making money as a solo assassin. I don't know how it is for solo visibles, but giving more money to assassin types at least, seems like a bad idea.