I’m going 50DW. Crush.
I’ve seen many Advocate 50 crush.
Why?
Is there a reason for the 44 or 50 style? As the 44 is after block chain it seems rather situational. The 50 style is side chain. I would think the dw side chain would be used far more.
Also any opinion on
Choice of 13 shield and higher parry or 23 shield for the rear stun and lower parry.
You shouldnt go more than 52 composite weapon for the basic weapon lines, if you are not seeking specific style.
If you are hitting enemies from behind or from the side or when they are stunned, then weaponskill has only value to reduce your miss chances.
Also mercenary does not autotrain crush.
So you should be spec at 5L0
42 shield
50 DW
37 crush
12 slash
12 thrust
13 parry
If you would be slash or thrust you could afford to go up to 18 parry (2.5% more parry chances)
If you're using a DW style then you will have a weaponskill that would be the equivalent of having 50 base weapon. Mythic called it the "hidden weaponskill". It's not shown so your best chance of knowing what it is is to plug in your base WS into a character planner as if it was = to your DW. That should give you your actual WS with DW.
I assume this is for soloing? Because if it's not, why would you ever pass up Slam in a group setting? Especially when Mercs can get it and still maintain their dual wield damage?
I assume this is for soloing? Because if it's not, why would you ever pass up Slam in a group setting? Especially when Mercs can get it and still maintain their dual wield damage?
I do just fine with 35 Shield on the Merc and 23 on the BM. If you're good at positionals then that's all you need for a good long duration stun. Slam just ends up getting purged anyways and gives the target a free 45 second stun immunity. I prefer Numb to stop someone in their tracks followed up by a snare style, or to use Numb to start the DW side chain. It gives only 10 seconds of stun immunity.
I do just fine with 35 Shield on the Merc and 23 on the BM. If you're good at positionals then that's all you need for a good long duration stun. Slam just ends up getting purged anyways and gives the target a free 45 second stun immunity. I prefer Numb to stop someone in their tracks followed up by a snare style, or to use Numb to start the DW side chain. It gives only 10 seconds of stun immunity.
I like this, but what do you do with the remaining points left over?
I'm assuming they go into Parry? Is that more useful in a group setting?
Genuine question. I'm not trying to argue otherwise.
I do just fine with 35 Shield on the Merc and 23 on the BM. If you're good at positionals then that's all you need for a good long duration stun. Slam just ends up getting purged anyways and gives the target a free 45 second stun immunity. I prefer Numb to stop someone in their tracks followed up by a snare style, or to use Numb to start the DW side chain. It gives only 10 seconds of stun immunity.
I like this, but what do you do with the remaining points left over?
I'm assuming they go into Parry? Is that more useful in a group setting?
Genuine question. I'm not trying to argue otherwise.
In my case it's so I could get 44 Thrust for the snare chain. It's really useful when some idiot has granted a runner a 45 second stun immunity and I still have to either a) peel them while chasing or b) DPS them down while ensuring they can't outrun me (because I might be snared too)
The other use as noted is to go split spec which is what I did on my BM.
The main caveat though is that if you want a longer stun then you MUST be good at positionals to land the side/rear Shield stun.
Making someone blow purge is a GOOD THING, not an "oh I just stunned them for nothing" thing.
It depends. Most of the time when I hit someone with my Shield I get the your target can't have this effect again message. It's super annoying. The only time I don't get this message is when I'm the first one to hit them. If the fight is longer than 45 seconds then the outcome is already pretty much decided; one side is mopping up the survivors or one side's survivors are running away. The only other time that the fight is longer than 45 seconds is during a siege.
Making someone blow purge is a GOOD THING, not an "oh I just stunned them for nothing" thing.
It depends. Most of the time when I hit someone with my Shield I get the your target can't have this effect again message. It's super annoying. The only time I don't get this message is when I'm the first one to hit them. If the fight is longer than 45 seconds then the outcome is already pretty much decided; one side is mopping up the survivors or one side's survivors are running away. The only other time that the fight is longer than 45 seconds is during a siege.
Lol what??
Our 8man fights regularly last way way way longer than 45sec. Unless youre fighting some scrub grp. I normally eat 3-4 9sec slams during almost every fight. You must not be having fights against anybody worth fighting.
Making someone blow purge is a GOOD THING, not an "oh I just stunned them for nothing" thing.
It depends. Most of the time when I hit someone with my Shield I get the your target can't have this effect again message. It's super annoying. The only time I don't get this message is when I'm the first one to hit them. If the fight is longer than 45 seconds then the outcome is already pretty much decided; one side is mopping up the survivors or one side's survivors are running away. The only other time that the fight is longer than 45 seconds is during a siege.
Lol what??
Our 8man fights regularly last way way way longer than 45sec. Unless youre fighting some scrub grp. I normally eat 3-4 9sec slams during almost every fight. You must not be having fights against anybody worth fighting.
If you're chasing an extend group then yes, but then you're doing it wrong by chasing an extend group lol. If you are the extend group and getting another group to chase you then you're doing it right
No where did I mention, nor did you mention anything about extending and/or being extended. Idk why you veered off onto that.
You said fights don't last longer than 45 sec unless you're doing keep siege. I said you're wrong and prob fighting scrub grps.
This leads me to believe you're either;
1. Only doing keep zergs.
2. On the receiving end of the 45 sec ass whoopin.
3. Only fighting scrub grps.
But alas, you're always right, you'll change the subject to something else etc etc. Idk why I'm even engaging in a conversation with you.
I stated a very common scenario where fights last 45 seconds or longer. Please, in all of your infinite wisdom, give us more scenarios. Also, are you assuming that Slams happen IMMEDIATELY at the beginning of a fight or do, you know, melee have to close distance before Slamming?
I'd rather give the opportunity for a long duration stun to my Casters because they can stun at range and usually have more of a bird's eye view of the battle than meleers do, since melee also has to concentrate on the minutiae of what is happening immediately in front. It's like Army training taught me, you do your 1, 5, 10, 25, etc. (in meters). You deal with the closest threat first. If I do shorter duration stuns and peel (or simply interrupt a chain, or a debuff+DD) and leave the longer duration CC to my Casters it becomes a more synergistic group. If they need me to stun for longer I have side and rear Shield stuns. BMs, Rangers, and Nightshades can side stun, and it's even been called "so easy it's practically an anytime" by countless whiners here in the forum's. If it's so easy then why aren't you doing it with your Shield?
I really want to see an actual video of a peeler doing everything perfectly fine without slam.
Humans are not computers. We make mistakes, and we have a thing called reaction time.
In lots of 8v8(at least from what I experienced), things are totally chaos and sometimes we have to stun an enemy you found 0.5 second before.
Because fight doesn't always occur 'in front view' and peelers actually locates in the middle of the fight.
If we need to land stun, we need it right away.
If we miss 1, 2 swings before landing a stun, we are already failing on peeling.
And I reckon there are more important things in 8v8 than trying to land positional stuns.
Peelers are always too busy while keeping track on their grp members and enemy member's movements.
I mean not about the individuals, but the whole view of the fight, and how things are going on.
For me, 42 shield is a no-brainer for every tank if they can spec shield(unless they want to solo).
So my conclusion for tanks is...
Just consider if you want to slam or numb your target. Forget about the positionals.
I really want to see an actual video of a peeler doing everything perfectly fine without slam.
Humans are not computers. We make mistakes, and we have a thing called reaction time.
In lots of 8v8(at least from what I experienced), things are totally chaos and sometimes we have to stun an enemy you found 0.5 second before.
Because fight doesn't always occur 'in front view' and peelers actually locates in the middle of the fight.
If we need to land stun, we need it right away.
If we miss 1, 2 swings before landing a stun, we are already failing on peeling.
And I reckon there are more important things in 8v8 than trying to land positional stuns.
Peelers are always too busy while keeping track on their grp members and enemy member's movements.
I mean not about the individuals, but the whole view of the fight, and how things are going on.
For me, 42 shield is a no-brainer for every tank if they can spec shield(unless they want to solo).
So my conclusion for tanks is...
Just consider if you want to slam or numb your target. Forget about the positionals.
I wish it wasn’t so, but the players who have excellent control of their avatar get off positionals on their enemy when they shouldn’t . It just the mechanics of the geometry
I really want to see an actual video of a peeler doing everything perfectly fine without slam.
Humans are not computers. We make mistakes, and we have a thing called reaction time.
In lots of 8v8(at least from what I experienced), things are totally chaos and sometimes we have to stun an enemy you found 0.5 second before.
Because fight doesn't always occur 'in front view' and peelers actually locates in the middle of the fight.
If we need to land stun, we need it right away.
If we miss 1, 2 swings before landing a stun, we are already failing on peeling.
And I reckon there are more important things in 8v8 than trying to land positional stuns.
Peelers are always too busy while keeping track on their grp members and enemy member's movements.
I mean not about the individuals, but the whole view of the fight, and how things are going on.
For me, 42 shield is a no-brainer for every tank if they can spec shield(unless they want to solo).
So my conclusion for tanks is...
Just consider if you want to slam or numb your target. Forget about the positionals.
Fair point but I got used to it playing Hib on Live and using side stun / rear snare. It's a good habit to develop IMO
If the fight is longer than 45 seconds then the outcome is already pretty much decided; one side is mopping up the survivors or one side's survivors are running away. The only other time that the fight is longer than 45 seconds is during a siege.
What the hell are you talking about? I've had two or three fights in the entirety of the last week that weren't longer than 45 seconds, and every one of those was a blanket mez on a bunch of RR2s and RR3s.
Every fight between well-balanced groups is at least a minute, usually two or three, and often more than five.
If the fight is longer than 45 seconds then the outcome is already pretty much decided; one side is mopping up the survivors or one side's survivors are running away. The only other time that the fight is longer than 45 seconds is during a siege.
What the hell are you talking about? I've had two or three fights in the entirety of the last week that weren't longer than 45 seconds, and every one of those was a blanket mez on a bunch of RR2s and RR3s.
Every fight between well-balanced groups is at least a minute, usually two or three, and often more than five.
What should be taken into consideration when talking about peels and slam is the duration of the peel vs. the duration of the slam. Most positional snares only have a short duration (11-14 secondes) when compared to the 9 seconds of slam, so the time window for the snare to actually take effect is pretty short. Using numb or another shorter positional stun utilizes the combination of stun+peel way better.
Another thing to consider for peeling is block rate, where every additional point invested into shield skill comes in handy. The difference between 35 and 42 isn't huge, but noticeable (around 4% last time we tested) and even more noticable for guard, which has a higher rate then blocking for oneself, but is difficult to test.
And when talking about avoiding damage on squishy targets, slam can be a game changer. E.g. against a 4/4 Hib tanker, the easy to land long duration slam can make a difference if you try to save one groupmate vs. a collapsing tank train, where guard and fast slams to minimize dmg is almost mandatory.
Last thing considering peels is the duel of the peelers, which occurs in most group vs groups scenarios at some point, often right at the beginning of the fight. To land a positional style in this messy duel is possible, but difficult, and having the possibility to slam and get rid of the enemy peeler this way without bothering about position to much is an important tool if you want to be an effective peeler.
Considering the Crush spec you favor, gotwqdd, it is a viable option, although the impact of having bonus dmg on Hib light tanks and bards and being neutral vs. all Mids is not as strong as it used to be. As you are going to use DW styles mostly due to the higher growth rates, comp 52 crush is enough, except you want to use the two-part anytime stun chain. As those styles only have a mediocre growth rate, my guess is that an increase in crush skill won't net a huge difference, but that'd need testing. The spec you proposed looks good for solo and smallman scenarios, for grouping, 42 shield for the role of the peeler is useful and many groups will expect you to have it.
I really want to see an actual video of a peeler doing everything perfectly fine without slam.
Humans are not computers. We make mistakes, and we have a thing called reaction time.
In lots of 8v8(at least from what I experienced), things are totally chaos and sometimes we have to stun an enemy you found 0.5 second before.
Because fight doesn't always occur 'in front view' and peelers actually locates in the middle of the fight.
If we need to land stun, we need it right away.
If we miss 1, 2 swings before landing a stun, we are already failing on peeling.
And I reckon there are more important things in 8v8 than trying to land positional stuns.
Peelers are always too busy while keeping track on their grp members and enemy member's movements.
I mean not about the individuals, but the whole view of the fight, and how things are going on.
For me, 42 shield is a no-brainer for every tank if they can spec shield(unless they want to solo).
So my conclusion for tanks is...
Just consider if you want to slam or numb your target. Forget about the positionals.
Fair point but I got used to it playing Hib on Live and using side stun / rear snare. It's a good habit to develop IMO
Yeah you should upload your 8v8 video of peeling only with positional stuns so that people can learn how to play from you.
That will be absolutely unprecedented video of daoc/phoenix history cuz I've never seen such thing even from the finest peelers.
Will be looking forward to seeing your awesome performance.
