The Life of a Scout as of 10/3/2018

What role do you want to play? Sniper or balanced or melee? This is not a complaint this is a guide of some sort, to help you understand your limitations.

Sniper is your only viable spec currently. It is the only way your going to get kills by doing as much damage as possible with your bow, and hoping your enemy doesn't require more then 2-3 hits to finish or you're dead. But don't expect to critical shot anything, because Mezd/moving targets/in combat targets are immune. so get as much range as you possibly can before you start firing. Climb a hill or something and hope they don't just keep running after the first 2 shots , if they do change locations immediately. endo pots and hastner speed put them out of range pretty fast.

Currently running 50 shield spec on my scout with MoBLOCK 9. I solo 99.7% of the time and leech 99% of the time when I can.

50%+ block rate on anything with a 1h weapon. 2h weapon block rates seem flakey, large weaponry for instance ive seen my block rate as low as half of that for some reason. could of been from a champ debuffing dex/quick but even so didn't make sense. to me

25%+ against duel wielding users. its not much at all so slam away or wait for a block and use your 10 sec stun shield style.

Enemies with purge up will kill you. Accept it and move on.

If an enemy gets off a hit before you can slam, there is a nasty delay on when you can pull your bow out again, don't bother pulling your bow out. get some distance. and /face and get as many shots as you can or try to restealth and live to fight another day. don't hold your breathe on getting the jump on any assassin to negate that delay, they see you way before you even have a clue what's going on with the current state of Stealth on this server. Perforate artery used to take skill, now its super easy mode.

On to melee, ive specd 50 thrust ive specd 16 thrust as long as 9 thrust even.. the scale of the damage was truly minimal and I believe its because thrust styles in alb are garbage, they are just to low level spec to be of any decent importance, there's only one with a defense bonus and its your detaunt ( crap damage) and then has a style at spec 44 to follow that does mediocre damage at best. Puncture is a low level style and has 2 different follow ups, Bloody dance which actually does nice damage and has a bleed and the other is Lance might be wrong on the name but does crap damage to say the least. But you wont land much of those second in line styles do to following:

50% evade rate
50% parry rate
50%++ block rate

so expect it to hit for around 100 damage and not consistently at all, will go as low as 50-60. yep that's less then other classes off hand damage in most cases.
Depending on the class your fighting. These defensive abilities are just out of hand.. and need to be addressed. With 50 spec shield, I should have enough Weapon skill that my shield slam is not evaded 4x in a row. but it happens, hell I've gotten lucky enough to see a stealthier before they saw me for whatever reason on their end, and they have evaded my slam in stealth and just pa'd me.

Long story short, You are a bonified archer. your escape ability is shield stun. pray they don't have purge up. you're not on par melee wise with anything without going basically MOP heavy and possibly bringing up your melee damage with crits. but at the end of the day your wep skill will be so low you will be evaded or parryed or blocked more often then not. or having to use a style with a defense penalty of some sort.

The class is second to paladins in regards to playability and usage currently, and more archery nerfs seem to be coming out pretty often and they hit scouts harder then any other archery class in game.

only advantage I have seen would be to spec high stealth and move as fast as possible in stealth to avoid as many people as possible and fight on your terms.
because hunters,rangers,shadowblades,nightshades will lower their stealth spec as they realm level up, so they will hit harder but their stealth speed will take a hit at least.

Wed 3 Oct 2018 6:58 PM by Cadebrennus

You are absolutely correct in that Thrust is a very poor style line, probably the worst in the game. The only thing that is useful in the Thrust line is the level 44 style which in essence is a two-part anytime snare (which is amazing at 27 seconds) but requires a significant investment in points to even have.

As an alternative, since you have resigned yourself to not doing much damage with melee, have you considered the slash line? You will have a lower WS but you will do more damage vs Mid stealthers and you can get a 12 second side snare at only 21 Slash. Combine that with a Slam/Brutalize and you can put some distance between yourself and your foe whether or not they have purge. Bonus: you get to use a handaxe until level 50

Wed 3 Oct 2018 8:11 PM by Waygone

I have officially shelved my scout. They are the WORST class in the game right now. Your only chance is to leech from range in ZvZ. And, I actually can't count the number of times yesterday that I draw critshot only to get a message that the target cant be attacked and have to redraw. Maybe I just have to re-learn the class with these new changes. However, I'm not going to do that now. The problem with zerging is I would run up, draw my bow and the enemy would die before I could release.
I saw more friars in RvR yesterday in pvp than scouts.
I'd rather level a Paladin than play my 50 scout atm..
I guess devs wanted to trim down mile gate camping. Hell of a way to do that nerfing a class to the dirt.
And, I don't care if this how it was on live at this patch level. I played a scout on live and it was NEVER like this.
Sorry for the rant....

Wed 3 Oct 2018 8:56 PM by Bigga

Waygone wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Oct 2018 8:11 PM
I have officially shelved my scout. They are the WORST class in the game right now. Your only chance is to leech from range in ZvZ. And, I actually can't count the number of times yesterday that I draw critshot only to get a message that the target cant be attacked and have to redraw. Maybe I just have to re-learn the class with these new changes. However, I'm not going to do that now. The problem with zerging is I would run up, draw my bow and the enemy would die before I could release.
I saw more friars in RvR yesterday in pvp than scouts.
I'd rather level a Paladin than play my 50 scout atm..
I guess devs wanted to trim down mile gate camping. Hell of a way to do that nerfing a class to the dirt.
And, I don't care if this how it was on live at this patch level. I played a scout on live and it was NEVER like this.
Sorry for the rant....

Agree.... its unplayable anymore

Wed 3 Oct 2018 10:20 PM by Jokerall

Yeah i mean, critshot already had a lot of limitations and to not even be able to critshot mezzed (non in combat, not swinging and standing still) ppl is complete nonsense.
On top of that, scout was already the weakest melee class in the game, even a paladin does more dmg, so the only thing a scout had was to be able to critshot after slam (as that was the only time you realistically could ever use critshot and if someone purged you were dead anyway 90% ot the times) but now you cant even do that? I mean rangers still have crazy melee dmg + avoid pain and hunters still have 2h spear which does decent damage and dog to interrupt.
What do scouts have now? slam, cant critshot, run or die trying to melee with lower dmg than paladin vs 50% evade?

Wed 3 Oct 2018 10:45 PM by colechar

You can critshot after slam. You just can’t critshot twice after slam. It’s really a slight adjustment: after slam run away for one second, /face and critshot.

Wed 3 Oct 2018 11:09 PM by Jokerall

colechar wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Oct 2018 10:45 PM
You can critshot after slam. You just can’t critshot twice after slam. It’s really a slight adjustment: after slam run away for one second, /face and critshot.

right, so you land 1 critshot and then die?

Please make sure you at least tried scout once in RvR before posting

Wed 3 Oct 2018 11:20 PM by relvinian

50% evade from ns is clown shoes. I was looking at that earlier and I was like, wow, why am I even swinging?

Wed 3 Oct 2018 11:43 PM by defiasbandit

I don't know why they nerfed scouts so hard, but when nightshades, shadowblades are still in their current state.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 12:09 AM by Waygone

And the nerfbat swung with the mighty blow!
What's next, reduce slam for scouts to 6 seconds?
Maybe damage tables are still a tad high for archery, maybe lower down a few more levels?
Sigh!
Hopefully the devs can look at this and see this change at least needs to be reverted back. If not, I will not only not play my favorite class, I will vehemently recommend no one else go that route.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 12:45 AM by relvinian

I assume it is all a work in progress which is normal in a beta.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 1:26 AM by Cadebrennus

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 12:45 AM
I assume it is all a work in progress which is normal in a beta.

I think at this point it is safe to assume that it is all a nerf in progress.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:56 AM by Isavyr

Once bad, always bad
Difficult to determine what was normal during classic. It was said that archers were bad then, and that was during an unrefined meta. In today's competitive MMO world, it's perhaps even more clear what a sad state archers are in, and perhaps its today's perspective that drives the feeling that they are worse, when in truth they are as bad as they've always been.
However, if you cannot manage to hit someone with 2300 unmodified range during ZvZ, I suggest you change your positioning tactic. Err on the side of aggressive position (1800-1900 range), and be ready to move if the enemy changes position.

More Opportunities for Archers
Like assassins, they are given the most opportunity and freedom, when the enemy occupies static lines. This occurs at milegates and keeps, but rarely elsewhere. If scouts are to be more useful, more scenarios that involve stationary armies will need to occur. Since the tasks already do this somewhat often with both keep siege and domination, I feel scouts are already given more opportunities.

However, unless Phoenix wants to risk rocking the boat, they don't have a lot of wiggle room. Archers, like assassins, are most suited towards griefing players and generally being obnoxious in RvR. Their design has always been that way.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 8:42 AM by relvinian

When you are on a lvl 40 getting xp items and you notice your health dropped to 60% then 30% and you have a mob on you, they don't feel too nerfed.

Live will give plenty of opportunities to thrive for scouts.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 1:36 PM by Waygone

So, you're saying that scouts chances are relegated to killing XPers? Ok, that's fair... not
Let me go out and find someone green to me who is engaged with a mob and I MIGHT get a couple RPs

Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:07 PM by Ganaka

This is an old MMO. Later games had a separate stat on gear to separate PVE damage scaling from PVP damage scaling. This game does not have the ability to nerf or buff only one without affecting the other. It is what it is.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:37 PM by poisonclover

todays patch notes : DW now 1/4 instead of 1/2

Melee Scouts might work now. 50 shield spec , brutalize time. 10 second stun.. err purged.. shit.. um... /yell HELP
Was all the changes to archery to just get rid of bow? I mean.. no flight time,MOA doesn't add the correct 3% per level, Shield slam delay, Crit restrictions.

If I wanted to be a melee stealthier id have made a infiltrator.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:44 PM by poisonclover

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:07 PM
This is an old MMO. Later games had a separate stat on gear to separate PVE damage scaling from PVP damage scaling. This game does not have the ability to nerf or buff only one without affecting the other. It is what it is.

#1 on your signature.

Example:

Ranger gets self buffs vs scout who gets no self buffs.

Ranger self buffs have a better dex/quick then scout buff potion.
scout uses red dex/quick charge now has same or better dex/quick buff.
both classes top off with buff potions.

the ranger was given self buffs to bring up weapon speed/damage, bow speed and bow damage.
scout was not given these for obvious reasons. But now the scout has access too same or better buffs.

Sure the scout could of used that charge and got the buff regardless of buff potions. but he wouldn't of had access to the other 4 buffs the he does now.

Ranger gets screwed.. make sense?

Thu 4 Oct 2018 3:50 PM by Dominus

I asked Aua just yesterday how the changes have effected his playstayle... His response was "not at all". Perhaps it's just the player.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 4:35 PM by Glimmer

From my point of view scout playstyle changed alot after these changes.
Now we can't just snipe enemy like before, atm my max critshot is around 750(casters).
Biggest problem atm is interrupt after slam to finish enemy, now after i land crit i got big problems to finish enemy and in most cases i will die due of bad defense from my side and low dmg.
Bow dmg is not as bad as it is on uth but could be always better(need to test with red d/q charge) but for now with pots i's kinda low from my point of view.

In general after these changes i lost all fun playing as scout which is sad. Hope it change somehow in later stage of server testing.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 4:45 PM by Magesty

The unfortunate aspect of both Scouts and Rangers is that to play them effectively solo you have to be able to land your positionals consistently. For the scout it is a matter of using side slicer to kite or bait out purge and for the ranger it is vital to get the positional stun and/or snare off.

You are going to have minimal success in head up fights if you can’t do these things. Instead you will be relegated to Zerg surfing and leeching for most of your RPs. The recent “nerfs” (technically, I believe they are considered corrections) to the classes just exacerbate the gap between the players that are capable of and willing to pull off positionals in combat and those that are not. Now that lower quality and/or lazy players are unable to double crit or hit for the additional damage due to incorrect weapon factor tables they are going to see far less success in smaller encounters as their class’ inability to compete in melee makes it so every bit of damage makes all the difference in securing a kill or failing to kite and getting 100-0’d while the opponent is sitting on a sliver of health.

Personally I don’t like having to rely on cheesing out side styles to be effective in RvR so I will likely pass on getting a Scout to 50 once live begins. I’m not sure that the ability to abuse positionals is something that is going to go away, nor is it something you can balance around since only a small portion of the players when the server is live will be abusing these mechanics. So what is the solution? How do you adjust the class to be balanced for the average player and not OP for players that are mechanically competent? Perhaps it is best left the way it is and players either learn to cheese or switch to playing an assassin/minstrel.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 6:05 PM by poisonclover

Dominus wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 3:50 PM
I asked Aua just yesterday how the changes have effected his playstayle... His response was "not at all". Perhaps it's just the player.

solo kills last week vs this week

Last Week 103
This Week 13

stats don't lie.. asking someone who has the most RPS in the class doesn't make there word any more valuable then the majority.

Thu 4 Oct 2018 10:14 PM by Ganaka

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:44 PM
Ganaka wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:07 PM
This is an old MMO. Later games had a separate stat on gear to separate PVE damage scaling from PVP damage scaling. This game does not have the ability to nerf or buff only one without affecting the other. It is what it is.

#1 on your signature.

Example:

Ranger gets self buffs vs scout who gets no self buffs.

Ranger self buffs have a better dex/quick then scout buff potion.
scout uses red dex/quick charge now has same or better dex/quick buff.
both classes top off with buff potions.

the ranger was given self buffs to bring up weapon speed/damage, bow speed and bow damage.
scout was not given these for obvious reasons. But now the scout has access too same or better buffs.

Sure the scout could of used that charge and got the buff regardless of buff potions. but he wouldn't of had access to the other 4 buffs the he does now.

Ranger gets screwed.. make sense?

Make pots base buff equivalent only? Both the Ranger and Scout are buffed and the Ranger’s class skills stack since they are spec buffs.

Fri 5 Oct 2018 1:15 AM by Zansobar

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 10:14 PM
poisonclover wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:44 PM
Ganaka wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 2:07 PM
This is an old MMO. Later games had a separate stat on gear to separate PVE damage scaling from PVP damage scaling. This game does not have the ability to nerf or buff only one without affecting the other. It is what it is.

#1 on your signature.

Example:

Ranger gets self buffs vs scout who gets no self buffs.

Ranger self buffs have a better dex/quick then scout buff potion.
scout uses red dex/quick charge now has same or better dex/quick buff.
both classes top off with buff potions.

the ranger was given self buffs to bring up weapon speed/damage, bow speed and bow damage.
scout was not given these for obvious reasons. But now the scout has access too same or better buffs.

Sure the scout could of used that charge and got the buff regardless of buff potions. but he wouldn't of had access to the other 4 buffs the he does now.

Ranger gets screwed.. make sense?

Make pots base buff equivalent only? Both the Ranger and Scout are buffed and the Ranger’s class skills stack since they are spec buffs.

They are weak spec buffs though...I think they are +62 or so dex/qui max when spec buffs can be +93.

Fri 5 Oct 2018 3:01 AM by Waygone

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 6:05 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 3:50 PM
I asked Aua just yesterday how the changes have effected his playstayle... His response was "not at all". Perhaps it's just the player.

solo kills last week vs this week

Last Week 103
This Week 13

stats don't lie.. asking someone who has the most RPS in the class doesn't make there word any more valuable then the majority.

Exactly what I expect. Maybe one AWESOME scout is getting EVERY solo kill. He must be the only competent scout left.
Gratz Aua!

Fri 5 Oct 2018 2:37 PM by Horus

Archers were buffbot reliant...prob more so than any other class including assassins.

A buffbotted archer caused havoc at range and pissed alot of people...thus the nerfs around the 1.65 time frame.

Remove buffbots from the equation and you have a class that is underwhelming because it was balanced to be kept in check WITH buffbots.

I am not saying I am for buffbots, just saying if you play an archer, expect to not be able to take out any class in melee and pick your ranged targets wisely.

...or find a friendly guild that will let you run in their non-optimum 8 man.

...or zerg surf

Fri 5 Oct 2018 4:31 PM by poisonclover

Horus wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 2:37 PM
Archers were buffbot reliant...prob more so than any other class including assassins.

A buffbotted archer caused havoc at range and pissed alot of people...thus the nerfs around the 1.65 time frame.

Remove buffbots from the equation and you have a class that is underwhelming because it was balanced to be kept in check WITH buffbots.

I am not saying I am for buffbots, just saying if you play an archer, expect to not be able to take out any class in melee and pick your ranged targets wisely.

...or find a friendly guild that will let you run in their non-optimum 8 man.

...or zerg surf

Not entirely true, hunters and rangers do pretty dam well in melee.

Fri 5 Oct 2018 4:34 PM by poisonclover

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 4:45 PM
The unfortunate aspect of both Scouts and Rangers is that to play them effectively solo you have to be able to land your positionals consistently. For the scout it is a matter of using side slicer to kite or bait out purge and for the ranger it is vital to get the positional stun and/or snare off.

You are going to have minimal success in head up fights if you can’t do these things. Instead you will be relegated to Zerg surfing and leeching for most of your RPs. The recent “nerfs” (technically, I believe they are considered corrections) to the classes just exacerbate the gap between the players that are capable of and willing to pull off positionals in combat and those that are not. Now that lower quality and/or lazy players are unable to double crit or hit for the additional damage due to incorrect weapon factor tables they are going to see far less success in smaller encounters as their class’ inability to compete in melee makes it so every bit of damage makes all the difference in securing a kill or failing to kite and getting 100-0’d while the opponent is sitting on a sliver of health.

Personally I don’t like having to rely on cheesing out side styles to be effective in RvR so I will likely pass on getting a Scout to 50 once live begins. I’m not sure that the ability to abuse positionals is something that is going to go away, nor is it something you can balance around since only a small portion of the players when the server is live will be abusing these mechanics. So what is the solution? How do you adjust the class to be balanced for the average player and not OP for players that are mechanically competent? Perhaps it is best left the way it is and players either learn to cheese or switch to playing an assassin/minstrel.

side slicer? slash for what 43 damage? so you honestly believe your going to be able to side slicer someone especially a assassin while getting garroted (snare) and get distance?

Fri 5 Oct 2018 5:22 PM by Magesty

If you want to have success as a solo scout I believe you have to be able to use side snare effectively.

I made no claims that it will be easy or a 100% path to victory, only that you have to use it to be playing the class to its fullest. Due to the recent changes the threshold at which archers can have success has been pushed even further out and those players that fail to abuse positional mechanics are going to have a much harder time performing well, especially solo, than they did a couple weeks ago.

Fri 5 Oct 2018 5:51 PM by Horus

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 4:31 PM
Not entirely true, hunters and rangers do pretty dam well in melee.

What matchups / spec do you think a Ranger can prevail in melee any better than a scout?

Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:12 PM by poisonclover

if youre serious with this, ask yam yam or skiopira (sp>

.. any active ranger.. I cant tell you last time I seen a ranger pull a bow out lol..

Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:13 PM by Cadebrennus

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 4:31 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 2:37 PM
Archers were buffbot reliant...prob more so than any other class including assassins.

A buffbotted archer caused havoc at range and pissed alot of people...thus the nerfs around the 1.65 time frame.

Remove buffbots from the equation and you have a class that is underwhelming because it was balanced to be kept in check WITH buffbots.

I am not saying I am for buffbots, just saying if you play an archer, expect to not be able to take out any class in melee and pick your ranged targets wisely.

...or find a friendly guild that will let you run in their non-optimum 8 man.

...or zerg surf

Not entirely true, hunters and rangers do pretty dam well in melee.

After this nerf your comment no longer applies to Rangers.

"- dual wield now reduces block and evade chance by 1/4 (down from 1/2) "
https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2448

So now only Hunters have a solid chance in melee vs classes that block and evade as long as they have their pet out to enact the multiple attacker defensive penalty.

Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:17 PM by Waygone

Dominus wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 3:50 PM
I asked Aua just yesterday how the changes have effected his playstayle... His response was "not at all". Perhaps it's just the player.

He better start thinking about CHANGING his playstyle since his playstyle must have made his solo kill potential drop by 90%. From 103 last week to 13 so far this week. Albeit his RPs have dropped by a little over half. So, either he has played ALOT less this week, or his class is considerably weaker. I believe the latter. Looking at the solo kill board, scouts are waaaayyyy down on the list DOMINATED by other stealthers(specifically assassins).
Rangers are the only archer that are still respectable considering the factors already mentioned. Even they have had a significant drop of in the stealth community.
Even before the massive nerfs, scouts weren't leading the killboard. It's not like they were GOD mode by any means.
If, well played they could beat most 1v1 matchups. But, that required skill to accomplish. There was absolutely no need for this nerf. What it was meant to accomplish is beyond me. It made a competitive to strong class EXTREMELY weak.

Please prove to me that a scout was so OP before this nerf that the changes were necessary. Any videos, screenshots of kill boards where scouts are dominating players EA are link...
Help me understand why this change was needed. And don't tell me this was how it was in 1.65 because there has been, and are many changes being done already compared to that playtime..

Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:57 PM by FrackinReavers

Waygone wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:17 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 3:50 PM
I asked Aua just yesterday how the changes have effected his playstayle... His response was "not at all". Perhaps it's just the player.

He better start thinking about CHANGING his playstyle since his playstyle must have made his solo kill potential drop by 90%. From 103 last week to 13 so far this week. Albeit his RPs have dropped by a little over half. So, either he has played ALOT less this week, or his class is considerably weaker. I believe the latter. Looking at the solo kill board, scouts are waaaayyyy down on the list DOMINATED by other stealthers(specifically assassins).
Rangers are the only archer that are still respectable considering the factors already mentioned. Even they have had a significant drop of in the stealth community.
Even before the massive nerfs, scouts weren't leading the killboard. It's not like they were GOD mode by any means.
If, well played they could beat most 1v1 matchups. But, that required skill to accomplish. There was absolutely no need for this nerf. What it was meant to accomplish is beyond me. It made a competitive to strong class EXTREMELY weak.

Please prove to me that a scout was so OP before this nerf that the changes were necessary. Any videos, screenshots of kill boards where scouts are dominating players EA are link...
Help me understand why this change was needed. And don't tell me this was how it was in 1.65 because there has been, and are many changes being done already compared to that playtime..

Salty stealth boi

Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:59 PM by FrackinReavers

Glimmer wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 4:35 PM
From my point of view scout playstyle changed alot after these changes.
Now we can't just snipe enemy like before, atm my max critshot is around 750(casters).
Biggest problem atm is interrupt after slam to finish enemy, now after i land crit i got big problems to finish enemy and in most cases i will die due of bad defense from my side and low dmg.
Bow dmg is not as bad as it is on uth but could be always better(need to test with red d/q charge) but for now with pots i's kinda low from my point of view.

In general after these changes i lost all fun playing as scout which is sad. Hope it change somehow in later stage of server testing.

750 dmg is low. lolll

Fri 5 Oct 2018 7:17 PM by Glimmer

FrackinReavers wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:59 PM
Glimmer wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Oct 2018 4:35 PM
From my point of view scout playstyle changed alot after these changes.
Now we can't just snipe enemy like before, atm my max critshot is around 750(casters).
Biggest problem atm is interrupt after slam to finish enemy, now after i land crit i got big problems to finish enemy and in most cases i will die due of bad defense from my side and low dmg.
Bow dmg is not as bad as it is on uth but could be always better(need to test with red d/q charge) but for now with pots i's kinda low from my point of view.

In general after these changes i lost all fun playing as scout which is sad. Hope it change somehow in later stage of server testing.

750 dmg is low. lolll

Yes it is low, but looks like you trying to play here smartass.

Fri 5 Oct 2018 7:22 PM by aso

the fact that you cant crit-shot a mezzed target, destroys the class.

its not possible to play atm

Fri 5 Oct 2018 10:01 PM by Waygone

FrackinReavers wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:57 PM
[quote=Waygone post_id=14022 time=1538763468

Salty stealth boi

Heck ya, I'm salty! It would be tantamount to you being a melee character(let's say Reaver) and you can't use any kind of style on a stunned target. Or how about on a moving target? Better yet, a target engaged by another enemy already. Critshot is the ONLY "style" in the archery class worth a damn. Just imagine if you could only run around and auto-attack most, if not ALL the time. How would you feel? A little Salty?
No way.. You're way to good for that..
Give me a frakin break man!

Sat 6 Oct 2018 3:41 AM by Cadebrennus

Waygone wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 10:01 PM
FrackinReavers wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Oct 2018 6:57 PM
[quote=Waygone post_id=14022 time=1538763468

Salty stealth boi

Heck ya, I'm salty! It would be tantamount to you being a melee character(let's say Reaver) and you can't use any kind of style on a stunned target. Or how about on a moving target? Better yet, a target engaged by another enemy already. Critshot is the ONLY "style" in the archery class worth a damn. Just imagine if you could only run around and auto-attack most, if not ALL the time. How would you feel? A little Salty?
No way.. You're way to good for that..
Give me a frakin break man!

Nailed it.

Sat 6 Oct 2018 4:18 AM by yallia

I don't know much about scouts exept for the ones I faced so I won't talk about their situations.

Just wanted to react to people saying hunter were in a pretty good spot in melee. They are not.

Any assassin, on top of getting the drop on you 99.9% of the time they will just rekt your ass, because pretty much all of them have 50% evade rate. Any light tank / tank with a shield spec will fuck you because engage after 1st or 2nd arrow => slam => dead. Even if you purge the slam, they outdamage you hard and will be at almost full health when arriving in melee.

Melee rangers will fuck you up as well.

Basically the only classes you beat in melee are : casters, scouts, minstrels without pet (lol).

But again, unlike scouts, the bow damage is pretty bad, the range is also extremly bad and you're forced to engage at extremly close range and even then, most target can just run away sprinting.

The situation is bad for archers, and I don't think it's going to get any better. You can expect to have a lot less stealthers at the release, and a vast majority of visibles, running groups. Meaning a lot less potential fights.

It's a shame because I really enjoyed the hunter, but unless they do some changes to it (and other archers to keep it balanced ofc) I don't think I'll ever roll one on live, because it is just going to be a useless class that can do nothing but add on fights between 2 groups of visibles ; or at least I suspect it'll be 95% of the action for a long time.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 2:29 PM by poisonclover

recent additions, seem to have added quite a bit of playability to the scout class.

Crit changes, Stealth Detect changes,

I still don't understand why being 50 bow vs being 35 +15 offers next to nothing in terms of damage.

I still don't understand why being 50 thrust vs being 35+15, 12+ 15, 6 +15 etc etc offers VERY little benefit in terms of damage.

only thing I have noticed is the addition of weapon skill my arrows get evaded less, blocked less (not by much vs shield, depends on their spec/MoB)

Love the current changes.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 2:39 PM by Glimmer

I agree and I love the changes to bow classes to better QOL ones, but there is always something missing

Like bow dmg is not good enought at 50spec pts compared to 35spec as poisonclover described.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 3:42 PM by Jokerall

True, bow dmg isnt scaling properly imo, im currently 32+15 bow and do like 60 dmg less than a 50+15 bow spec. Devs need to look into this

Tue 9 Oct 2018 5:04 PM by

gruenesschaf

That should be correct though.

Weapon spec does 4 things
1) It affects the damage modifier (same as the weapon stat (str and/or dex) or the damage table) - The damage modifier does not affect the cap, only how close to the cap you hit
2) In case of 2h weapons it affects the 2h dps bonus
3) In case of styles it affects style bonus damage
4) It affects defense penetration

The damage modifier is only affected up to enemy level +2 (in rvr against lvl 50 that means 52 weapon spec), anything above that number has no effect on the damage modifier / unstyled 1h damage and archer shots count as unstyled damage. Since bows are 2h each point slightly increases the 2h bonus which acts as weapon dps increase and hence increases the cap too, this 2h bonus currently does not have a spec cap and is the reason your damage increases at all when already above 52.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 7:17 PM by florin

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Oct 2018 5:04 PM
That should be correct though.

Weapon spec does 4 things
1) It affects the damage modifier (same as the weapon stat (str and/or dex) or the damage table) - The damage modifier does not affect the cap, only how close to the cap you hit
2) In case of 2h weapons it affects the 2h dps bonus
3) In case of styles it affects style bonus damage
4) It affects defense penetration

The damage modifier is only affected up to enemy level +2 (in rvr against lvl 50 that means 52 weapon spec), anything above that number has no effect on the damage modifier / unstyled 1h damage and archer shots count as unstyled damage. Since bows are 2h each point slightly increases the 2h bonus which acts as weapon dps increase and hence increases the cap too, this 2h bonus currently does not have a spec cap and is the reason your damage increases at all when already above 52.

Thanks for the explanation - this is the kind of info and tribal knowledge that makes this game cool but also affects spec and mechanics and playstyle enough to make it frustrating. Ie its missing the user experience / friendliness aspects..like things designed by engineers instead of designers lol

Tue 9 Oct 2018 8:02 PM by Ganaka

Bows are unstyled damage. Bows consume endurance when used to fire arrows.

Are there any other weapons that consume endurance when performing unstyled damage?

Wed 10 Oct 2018 12:09 AM by Waygone

A new idea about scout.
Why not give scouts the option of higher spec right now. I know, you CAN spec higher in bow but what's the point?
Make a critshot 10 at around level 42, and make critshot 11 at 50. Make it so that, if you want to invest the spec points make it a little worthwhile. All the while scaling damage accordingly. Of course the damage variances could be "tweaked" sometime before release if too OP.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 12:14 AM by Cadebrennus

One of the biggest problems with Scouts is the Thrust style line. It doesn't have a lot going for it, just a bunch of bleeds and not any other real utility going on in it. At least Slash has a side snare, but Scout's WS will suffer when using Strength only weapons.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 3:07 PM by poisonclover

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Oct 2018 12:14 AM
One of the biggest problems with Scouts is the Thrust style line. It doesn't have a lot going for it, just a bunch of bleeds and not any other real utility going on in it. At least Slash has a side snare, but Scout's WS will suffer when using Strength only weapons.

I mean.. puncture the main style for a scout in thrust is the same style ive been using since level 6 lol.. the style bonus is absurd at level 50 lol..

and then if you spec high enough thrust to ditch puncture, your opener becomes a detaunt that hits for need I say basically no damage lmao, and the 2nd style in the line is great. but good luck landing it lol