Future solo content - Phoenix Freeshard

Hey @DEVs,

when i came back from my summer vacation i found the PvP zone closed and couldn't find any threat about new and coming content for us to replace what we had.

I tried some frontier soloing but it's still the same as pre PvP zone, 90%+ of time spent is being zerged by 3+ enemies - so no fun.

/fair toggle seems to be unchanged too sadly.

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I was just curious if you had any plans?

Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:15 PM by Nephamael

My best suggestion would be working on /fair toggle, to make it display the location like the flag tasks.

eg: Jukaron is in Emain Macha, close to the DC flag/crim flag etc.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:23 PM by Nephamael

Also giving RP rewards for /fair cleanfight is a good idea for encouraging people to actually get onto the list, same like for /gvg.

Rewards could be 125 RPs for an accepted /fair cleanfight post RR5 (1/8 of /gvg cleanfight) and 500 or 750? RPs pre RR5 to encourage low ranks to go out there alone.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:50 PM by

Uthred

Uthred wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 2:16 PM
We just closed the solo pvp zone because of massive abuse and extra work for the staff. After all that what happened there and before (bowtowns in trelle & the multiple insults towards the staff), i dont really see any reason why we should reward you with that extra rps nor do i see any reason why we should create a potential loophole for (massive) bug abuse which would be way easier doable 1vs1 than 8vs8.

Most of your questions got answered in this thread --> https://forum.playphoenix.online/get-involved/suggestions/25546-solo-vs-solo-fair-fight-rp-reward

The reasons why we closed the zone was written in the Permanent PVP Zone FAQ. The thread isnt available anymore as the zone was closed. But i will quote the reasons again:

As some of you probably already read ingame, we closed the PvP zone for now.

Why did we do that? It had multiple reasons.

1. There were a lot of insults and flames which caused us to disable the /region chat. That stopped some flames, but didnt stop players from sending their hate to other players via /send.
2. There was also a lot bug abuse going on which caused extra work for the staff.
3. There were players rp farming.
4. At the (re-)start of the zone (with full task rps), a lot of players were going there and trying this "special" ruleset. After some time, the numbers went down and the last few days there were only about 10 players there at PT, often it were below. These low numbers showed us, that some players like PvP for a short time (weekend event) but in the long term, it is getting less interesting. So having a zone open for about 10 players that is causing so much trouble and extra work for the staff is in relation to the rest of the 1400 players that are currently playing the server.

PvP events have always been the most popular events on Phoenix and we will bring PvP events most likely back. But for now, the permanent PvP zone will be not open again.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:18 AM by Nephamael

I was just curious if you had any plans?

I did read the threat you linked now and seems that the reasoning for not listening to the good suggestions there for permanent solo content on Phoenix is hard feelings against the solo community?

I hope you got over that by now and maybe think about it again?

Or is there any other upcoming permanent solo content?

Don't get me wrong, i might play your PvP events if i don't miss them due to lack of being online - cause right now i have no real reason to play on Phoenix besides occasional 8v8 or zerging (bores me fast sadly).

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edit: I am very grateful for the many things you tried so far, to help build solo content and i feel pity for you being annoyed terribly by a few players.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:15 PM by

Uthred

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:18 AM
I did read the threat you linked now and seems that the reasoning for not listening to the good suggestions there for permanent solo content on Phoenix is hard feelings against the solo community?

Seriously? We tried so many different things for such a small (numberwise) part of the community and every time we tried something we either got flamed, insulted, harrassed, had tons of extra work (mutes, bans, bug abuse) and players in general were massively abusing what we offered them.

After all this, you still didnt get it and continue to throws flames at the staff and assume that we don't like the solo community? No, we will not put in any more new solo content. Why should we even think about it, when reading posts like yours that contain nothing but flames and insinuations?

You have the whole FZ (including solo areas), DF, PoC, SH and the battlegrounds for solo content 24/7 plus the fairfight command. End of story.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 1:19 PM by Ibs

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:15 PM
Nephamael wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:18 AM
I did read the threat you linked now and seems that the reasoning for not listening to the good suggestions there for permanent solo content on Phoenix is hard feelings against the solo community?

Seriously? We tried so many different thing for such a small (numberwise) part of the community and every time we tried something we either got flamed, insulted, harrassed, had tons of extra work (mutes, bans, bug abuse) and players in general were massively abusing what we offered them.

After all this, you still didnt get it and continue to throws flames at the staff and assume that we don't like the solo community? No, we will not put in any more new solo content. Why should we even think about it, when reading posts like yours that contain nothing but flames and insinuations?

You have the whole FZ (including solo areas), DF, PoC, SH and the battlegrounds for solo content 24/7 plus the fairfight command. End of story.

After reading your replies to soloers it sure seems like you personally (not the staff in general) don't like the solo community lol.. yes yes i know you gave us fair fight, df and sh thanks.

Everything you complained about could be ascribed to 8v8 and even the zerg community that gets showered with perks and incentives to fight each other. Yes i know you'll say "oh soloers were exploiting more than 8v8 and zergs" even though there's no hard numbers to prove anything, and you had to revise the gvg mechanic BECAUSE it was being abused by 8 mans. You had to revise the task tick multitudes of times because it was getting exploited by zergs. Where's our revisions?

The staff shotgun blasts a bunch of hastily ill conceived custom commands/areas for solo and when they're "abused" because of their lack of rules, lack of play testing, lack of communication, and/or open endedness THE ENTIRETY OF SOLOERS are blamed? Seems pretty lame imo uthred. Awfully petty to take our plates off the table because you got mad at some people flaming you for the aforementioned custom commands and zones you ripped out from under us with little to no warning. The only custom thing added for us that wasn't removed is fair fight, and well, we both know how many people use that command....

You pretty much told that guy to pound sand and kick rocks rofl. Your reply to my post (if there is one) will probably be just as insulting.

Well pack it in boys you heard it from here first, no more changes to solo. Hopefully you'll reverse your staunch dare I say, draconian position on soloers as you did with the realm timer.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 1:34 PM by Ibs

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:23 PM
Also giving RP rewards for /fair cleanfight is a good idea for encouraging people to actually get onto the list, same like for /gvg.

Rewards could be 125 RPs for an accepted /fair cleanfight post RR5 (1/8 of /gvg cleanfight) and 500 or 750? RPs pre RR5 to encourage low ranks to go out there alone.

Those are excellent suggestions, unfortunately they won't even discuss it internally, and instead will flame you and say how dare you for even suggesting it after all they gave you. You have summoners hall to fight in, isn't that good enough?

On a more serious note, i already asked for close to this suggestion, and was met with about the same hostility/ire as you were.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 3:12 PM by Neso

Latest Patch Notes (Tuesday 18th):
- The salinity and water level in the Irish Sea has been increased.

Wed 19 Aug 2020 1:00 PM by gotwqqd

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:15 PM
Nephamael wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 12:18 AM
I did read the threat you linked now and seems that the reasoning for not listening to the good suggestions there for permanent solo content on Phoenix is hard feelings against the solo community?

Seriously? We tried so many different things for such a small (numberwise) part of the community and every time we tried something we either got flamed, insulted, harrassed, had tons of extra work (mutes, bans, bug abuse) and players in general were massively abusing what we offered them.

After all this, you still didnt get it and continue to throws flames at the staff and assume that we don't like the solo community? No, we will not put in any more new solo content. Why should we even think about it, when reading posts like yours that contain nothing but flames and insinuations?

You have the whole FZ (including solo areas), DF, PoC, SH and the battlegrounds for solo content 24/7 plus the fairfight command. End of story.

Bravo
It will never be enough
If they choose to solo in an rvr game let them live with the results

Fri 21 Aug 2020 2:56 AM by Nephamael

After all this, you still didnt get it and continue to throws flames at the staff and assume that we don't like the solo community? No, we will not put in any more new solo content. Why should we even think about it, when reading posts like yours that contain nothing but flames and insinuations?

Now i am a bit sad, i didn't insult you or anyone else in the staff with a single word in my threat here ^^.

But thanks a lot for your reply

No, we will not put in any more new solo content.

At least i don't have to waste my time and energy any further to try and assist you in the matter with as good suggestions i am able to offer

---

I enjoyed Phoenix a lot and imo it is the best approach on a DaoC version that provides longterm fun in a game that naturally has lots of flaws that hamper longterm balance.

So thank you and the the team for offering that

-
I do tho have to advise you to overlook what i suggested sooner or later or at last for Phoenix 2.

- as imo it is vital to any DaoC server to provide content for all playstyles to make the game stay alive long longterm. The logic is pretty easy to understand:
If a player doesn't have enough time to play 8v8 or other more time consuming content he can still do a couple of solo runs in the frontier. - If those are enjoyable he will do it over and over again, generating content and fun for other players as their enemy.

If he doesn't find enjoyable content for logging in for 30 mins to play DaoC then he plays something else in those 30 mins.

There is not just hardcore solo players like me in the community of Phoenix 6 month back and even still now. Mostly people who try to solo aren't able to meet the enemy solos. So fun get's hampered and the same person gets disencouraged to try again.
That is the main reason solo action died mostly during the last 6-9 month. It was actually pretty awesome in the first months of the server, before a part of the community developed more sophisticated solo hunting strategies and killed the fun in the frontier.

Fri 21 Aug 2020 10:08 AM by gotwqqd

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Aug 2020 2:56 AM
After all this, you still didnt get it and continue to throws flames at the staff and assume that we don't like the solo community? No, we will not put in any more new solo content. Why should we even think about it, when reading posts like yours that contain nothing but flames and insinuations?

Now i am a bit sad, i didn't insult you or anyone else in the staff with a single word in my threat here ^^.

But thanks a lot for your reply

No, we will not put in any more new solo content.

At least i don't have to waste my time and energy any further to try and assist you in the matter with as good suggestions i am able to offer
---

I enjoyed Phoenix a lot and imo it is the best approach on a DaoC version that provides longterm fun in a game that naturally has lots of flaws that hamper longterm balance.

So thank you and the the team for offering that

-
I do tho have to advise you to overlook what i suggested sooner or later or at last for Phoenix 2.

- as imo it is vital to any DaoC server to provide content for all playstyles to make the game stay alive long longterm. The logic is pretty easy to understand:
If a player doesn't have enough time to play 8v8 or other more time consuming content he can still do a couple of solo runs in the frontier. - If those are enjoyable he will do it over and over again, generating content and fun for other players as their enemy.

If he doesn't find enjoyable content for logging in for 30 mins to play DaoC then he plays something else in those 30 mins.

There is not just hardcore solo players like me in the community of Phoenix 6 month back and even still now. Mostly people who try to solo aren't able to meet the enemy solos. So fun get's hampered and the same person gets disencouraged to try again.
That is the main reason solo action died mostly during the last 6-9 month. It was actually pretty awesome in the first months of the server, before a part of the community developed more sophisticated solo hunting strategies and killed the fun in the frontier.

Mostly hyperbole

Fri 21 Aug 2020 3:38 PM by joshisanonymous

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Aug 2020 2:56 AM
After all this, you still didnt get it and continue to throws flames at the staff and assume that we don't like the solo community? No, we will not put in any more new solo content. Why should we even think about it, when reading posts like yours that contain nothing but flames and insinuations?

Now i am a bit sad, i didn't insult you or anyone else in the staff with a single word in my threat here ^^.

But thanks a lot for your reply

You did insult him. You got passive aggressive when you slipped that whole "hoped you would've gotten over that" line.

The first two people responding to Uthred here basically proved his point. You and the other person both took underhanded shots at him while asking him to cater to solo players. It always seems to me that anything short of making this an arena game will be insufficient for the people who post this sort of stuff on the forums. It's an RvR game, though, as it should be. Soloing isn't supposed to be easy, but that's what makes it engaging for those people who are willing to figure out how to make it work. Instead, we have people who aren't willing to figure it out who are then demanding the game be changed for them instead and then they throw cheap shots at the devs when they're inevitably still not satisfied with changes.

Fri 21 Aug 2020 11:58 PM by Nephamael

You and the other person both took underhanded shots at him while asking him to cater to solo players. It always seems to me that anything short of making this an arena game will be insufficient for the people who post this sort of stuff on the forums. It's an RvR game, though, as it should be. Soloing isn't supposed to be easy, but that's what makes it engaging for those people who are willing to figure out how to make it work. Instead, we have people who aren't willing to figure it out who are then demanding the game be changed for them instead

I always was and still am in support of a frontier solution - if you read my threat you will realise. I played the "arena" content because that was what the DEVs gave us - so it was right to support it, while it lasted.

Anyway - soloing isn't hard, it is unplayable on Phoenix currently - so it died steadily over the last months and is now at maybe 5% of what it once was.

Sun 23 Aug 2020 6:22 PM by carlwinslow

I never understood why people are against solo players so much, its some of the most interesting encounters you can have in this game a fight of glory between 2 skilled opponents, nope red is dead lets zerg everything!

Sun 23 Aug 2020 6:47 PM by Nephamael

I never understood why people are against solo players so much, its some of the most interesting encounters you can have in this game a fight of glory between 2 skilled opponents, nope red is dead lets zerg everything!

Hating the zergers and adders is neither the right way.

The beauty of DaoC is the many options you have for content. The difficulty for a server is to fix the natural flaws of DaoC at keeping all the content people play enjoyable longterm.